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Mormonism Fails the Test of Certainty

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Apologia Utah

Apologia Utah

Күн бұрын

This is an example of a great conversation between Evangelicals and Mormons with regard to the certainty of knowing Christ through Scripture. Jacob Reynolds an evangelist at Apologia Utah highlights an important question: Is It Possible for Mormons to Have Certainty? You do not want to miss this!

Пікірлер: 104
@melanierollins508
@melanierollins508 10 ай бұрын
Love your evangelism of the truth to the Mormons, can tell it’s done in love and truth, keeping y’all in prayer
@user-og2wt3le4j
@user-og2wt3le4j Ай бұрын
Don't be fooled. They're Calvinists.
@andreatimmers1720
@andreatimmers1720 10 ай бұрын
I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much 💓
@BenjaminRushton-hp5jl
@BenjaminRushton-hp5jl 10 ай бұрын
Great conversation 🙏 praise God
@Eagle_Powers
@Eagle_Powers 10 ай бұрын
Great job guys. This is the first time I have seen Sarah. She did a great job.
@cornfedlife
@cornfedlife 24 күн бұрын
She used her Eagle Powers! 😎
@Eagle_Powers
@Eagle_Powers 24 күн бұрын
@@cornfedlife Ha Ha yeah she did!
@user-qp8ln2yt8r
@user-qp8ln2yt8r 2 ай бұрын
The emphasis on the Bible is grace through faith and good works. Ephesians 2:8, James 2:17, James 2:24.
@nametheunknown_
@nametheunknown_ 4 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing, love this convo!
@anichols2760
@anichols2760 10 ай бұрын
Im a Christian member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. These great members didnt articulate or clarify that we dont believe our works play any part in our salvation. Its not after all we csn do which actually means "in spite of or no matter what we try to do". Christ saves us completely and nothing we do earns any portion of that salvation. Our so called works are actually a demonstration of our love and faith in/for Christ as we try to do things that develop us into becoming more like him (ie developing obedience, love, etc) which efforts are actually part of a repentance process (developmental process). We absolutely believe that our efforts by themelves are futile. However, when Christs grace (as we turn to him) is involved he shows us the power of his grace to transform us from sinners into godly beings who think and act more like him. Our efforts to try is like learning to play the piano or developing any skill which takes practice but must involve Christ grace. As we keep practicing to do and become good and try to involve christ in making changes where we need to he empowers us and works in us and changes us through his grace. And we can appreciate his great power and recognize we have nothing to boast and that any good we do is not because of us but is because of him.
@inChristalone1960
@inChristalone1960 6 ай бұрын
You are twisting the words to try to pretend they mean what Ephesians means. Just come back to the Bible. ❤
@leviwilliams9601
@leviwilliams9601 2 ай бұрын
Your prophets disagree with you.
@truthseeker4286
@truthseeker4286 Ай бұрын
@@inChristalone1960 you just rejected the true gospel that was just taught you so succinctly.
@truthseeker4286
@truthseeker4286 Ай бұрын
So well said. Thank you.
@truthseeker4286
@truthseeker4286 Ай бұрын
@@inChristalone1960 does that apply to you also… In other words, will you just come back to the Bible? Because if you do, you will see that the words you just rejected is the biblical gospel.
@user-qp8ln2yt8r
@user-qp8ln2yt8r 2 ай бұрын
When Paul was talking about grace over works he was talking about the works required in the law of Moses not good works such as explained by James; James 2:24.
@truthseeker4286
@truthseeker4286 Ай бұрын
That's true
@carolmaplesden916
@carolmaplesden916 Ай бұрын
The baptism of the holy ghost
@user-qp8ln2yt8r
@user-qp8ln2yt8r Ай бұрын
@@carolmaplesden916 Yes the gift of the Holy Ghost is needed too but first baptism by water needs to be done. John 3:5, Acts 2:38.
@carolmaplesden916
@carolmaplesden916 Ай бұрын
@@user-qp8ln2yt8r What is the fruit of baptism in water And what is the fruit of the baptism of the holy Spirit And why is there more emphasis on the water than the holy Spirit It is easy to fake your commitment to Father with water but ain't no way anyone can fake the fulfillment of the holy Spirit
@user-og2wt3le4j
@user-og2wt3le4j Ай бұрын
It is about being sanctified by the grace of Christ. A truly converted Christian will do good works not because he gets bonus points with God. It is because he is truly converted and should aspire to be something Christ-like in their life.
@FishingWithGuero
@FishingWithGuero Ай бұрын
Really encouraging video
@Xchange85
@Xchange85 Ай бұрын
Spread the Gospel not to argue and debate about it. And we shall see who and the truth is after death 😊
@user-qp8ln2yt8r
@user-qp8ln2yt8r 2 ай бұрын
To answer the question “What do I need to do to live with God for all eternity?” read Matthew 19:17.
@brotherinchrist72
@brotherinchrist72 2 ай бұрын
What is interesting to note, there is nothing in their Book of Mormons that clarifies anything of their actual core doctrines, but in fact there is much in the Book of Mormon that refutes their very own core doctrine. In truth, the LDS faith core doctrines comes from all the added "revelations" that Joseph Smith Jr proclaimed in Doctrines and Covenants, and then added history from their Pearl of Great Price.
@user-qp8ln2yt8r
@user-qp8ln2yt8r 2 ай бұрын
Apologia says “Scripture is the highest and only infallible authority for all men” Jesus said Matthew 28:18.
@jonathanduran8669
@jonathanduran8669 Ай бұрын
6:20 It would be confusing if you choose to ignore the clarification of all of this in James 2. Clearly it is not by faith only. James 2:17 - "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." James 2:24 - "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
@Xchange85
@Xchange85 Ай бұрын
LDS members are more humbled just by listening to them. Every denomination has its views and if you know Jesus they all mean the same thing in the end. Ponder about.
@user-qp8ln2yt8r
@user-qp8ln2yt8r 2 ай бұрын
Latter Day Saints don’t trust their hearts; they trust the Holy Ghost. Based on what Apologia is saying they obviously don’t trust the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3.
@user-og2wt3le4j
@user-og2wt3le4j Ай бұрын
You should spend more time with LDS people. What you said is incorrect.
@SimonDaumMusic
@SimonDaumMusic 10 ай бұрын
Well, Mormons, from their perspective, do have certainity that most of humankind will end up in a kingdom of glory, whilst Evangelists, from their perspective, do have certainity that only a hand full of people that were lucky enought to find Jesus in this lifetime, will end up in heaven, whilst all the others will burn eternally... So if I am honest about it, if I had to choose which certainity I would prefer, not just for myself, but also for all other people that ever lived before they could even hear anything about Christ, then I would certainly pick the LDS view, which takes Timothy by his words when stating that "God wants to save everyone".. Not just the LDS believe that God wants to save everyone, but also believing that he is powerfull enough to prepare ways that each person, no matter what backround or when they lived, will be treated euqally by God. Now, you believe that you have certainity that you will one day live in the presence of God. But what about all those Evangelicals, and I know some of them, that were Evangelicals for many decades, experienced all the signs and wodners of being saved, and yet still made their way out of Evangelism, some even into Mormonism... What about them having certainity? There are only a few options here, either they will remain saved, though being Mromon, or they never had been saved in the first place, but then noone of you actually can ever really have any real certainity on being saved, for there are enough people that had been sincere Evangelicals, that are no longer.. and so to simply ague with the one or the other, makes it way to simple to look at it in a sincere way..
@NeilAldridge-jp7rl
@NeilAldridge-jp7rl 10 ай бұрын
Simon even mormons teach Elohim will put his son Lucifer in outer darkness, so what kinda Father is that???
@infinitetruth4352
@infinitetruth4352 10 ай бұрын
@@NeilAldridge-jp7rl So, are you indicating that God is a bad father because he puts only a handfull of dudes into hell for being througly evil, but has prepared a place of Glory for all the rest of humankind, but don't find it evil to believe in a God that puts most of humankind into hell, merely for not receiving the chance to accept Christ? I am not sure where here the logic is, but to me, if I had to choose, it would be clear which father is worse.
@NeilAldridge-jp7rl
@NeilAldridge-jp7rl 10 ай бұрын
@@infinitetruth4352 what I am indicating is what is in the bible, and Satan getting people to question Gods word is exactly what he wants, read what he said to Eve. When Satan blinds people to believing and worshipping a false Christ/God he wins. Mormons have preached a man god who exalted to god and a spirit sex offspring from this exalted man god. Score up souls for Satan. God has will and is God none before none after he alone is God, he manifested himself in flesh Jesus christ the Saviour. I will not put my faith in a non biblical man God. The Gospels were written by eyewitnesses, not told by a strange angel declaring a different message
@gtf5392
@gtf5392 9 ай бұрын
I think I would choose the certainty that’s true, not necessarily the one I prefer.
@SimonDaumMusic
@SimonDaumMusic 9 ай бұрын
@@NeilAldridge-jp7rl It is a contradiction to call God"good" for casting most of humanity into hell, no matter how much rightousness they brought to daylight, merely for never having had the chance to accept the gopsel (though the Bible atually contradicts that), but then to call God kind of a bad father for casting a handfull of dudes into hell that literally did evil.. Tell me, where is here the logic?
@user-qp8ln2yt8r
@user-qp8ln2yt8r 2 ай бұрын
Apologia is wrong here. Baptism is listed in the Bible as an essential work for salvation; John 3:5.
@user-og2wt3le4j
@user-og2wt3le4j Ай бұрын
I am a former evangelical. You would be surprised how many Christian denominations reject baptism as a requirement for salvation.
@user-qp8ln2yt8r
@user-qp8ln2yt8r Ай бұрын
@@user-og2wt3le4j Then those denominations clearly don’t believe in Jesus Christ. They may believe many things about him but they don’t trust his words or have faith in his gospel. Don’t believe in the grace only, idle path to salvation. Faith is also needed and a person with faith gets baptised. Mark 16:16. John 3:5.
@clarksetters
@clarksetters 3 ай бұрын
Jacob at marker 5:57 says that baptism is not essential, that statement is incorrect. Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God John 3:5 Peter also taught Repent and be baptized every one of you Act 2 :38.
@user-og2wt3le4j
@user-og2wt3le4j Ай бұрын
The most important part was Jesus was baptized.
@jasonmears4393
@jasonmears4393 10 ай бұрын
Ok, I've got to chime in here. Evangelical Christians are very, very confused on the grace vs. works topic. The problem with this person in this video is that they focus on a few scriptures from paul and completely ignore what else paul taught. For instance, paul clearly taught time and time again the importance of our works. Ex:1 Corinthians 6:9-10, 2 Corinthians 5: 9-11, ephesians 5:3-6, galatians 5: 16-21, galatians 6: 7-8. Paul clearly says over and over, if ye do such works, and in these verses he lists specific works, he says, ye will not enter into the kingdom of god. So yes, works do matter!! Why? Because pauls said so!! The bible is like an instruction manual for life. You can't just pick and choose a few verses here and there. You need to read and use the entire instruction manual. You need to read and follow ALL OF PAUL'S TEACHINGS. Do our works alone save us? NO!! OUR WORKS ALONE WILL NEVER EVER EVER SAVE US . THE GRACE AND MERCY OF JESUS CHRIST IS WHAT SAVES US. Jesus christ has done everything possible for us to receive true salvation. He is the savior. Our works don't save us. They transform us into something better. Our works make us clean and keep us clean. The bible teaches time and time agsin, "NO UNCLEAN THING SHALL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD ." Our works help us to become better disciples of Jesus christ and better men and women. Again, our works transform us into something better. Just as they did to mother Teresa. Why was she one of the most christ like woman to ever live? It was her works with the poor. Her works is what helped her to be so christlike. Did her works save her? No!! They transformed her into something better. They transformed her into something more holy more pure more christlike. Think of the transformation of a caterpillar into a beautiful butterfly. A caterpillar is a bit ugly, slow, and simply ordinary. But think of a butterfly. They are beautiful. They are graceful. They are free to fly and go places that a caterpillar simply cannot. This is what happens to us when we are converted to the gospel of Jesus Christ and follow christ and keep his COMMANDMENTS. Our works don't save us. They transform us into something more beautiful and wonderful. My question to you... Do you want to live the rest of your life as a caterpillar or a butterfly?
@user-og2wt3le4j
@user-og2wt3le4j Ай бұрын
As a former evangelical I agree. I left that and became LDS decades ago. They often don't understand the sanctification process. A truly converted Christian will change their behavior.
@truthseeker4286
@truthseeker4286 Ай бұрын
@@user-og2wt3le4j exactly right
@jlacy73
@jlacy73 10 ай бұрын
You just carried on a good 23 minute conversation with Mormons where you discussed the gospel and Jesus Christ. Then you had the gall to give it a disingenuous title: “Mormonism fails the test of certainty.” Shame on you for setting out to tear down another religion. We have no doubt that Christ lives. Christ himself spoke to Joseph Smith. Peter, James and John laid their hands on Joseph and gave him authority to administer the gospel. Yes, we believe in additional scripture such as the Book of Mormon that builds upon and clarifies what is in the Bible. It is a wonderful book. We do not believe in sola scriptura, although we very much believe in the holy scriptures. All of them. But just as Christ came down and gave a higher law than what was in the Old Testament, today He, too, can give a commandment or law to His prophet that applies to our world today, something that may not be included in the Bible.
@jawnatutorow
@jawnatutorow 10 ай бұрын
The 'higher law' IS the 'old' law. Jesus said, not just the physical act of adultery is a sin but even lusting in your mind is adultery; not just the act of murdering someone but even slandering their name is murder. He exalted the law, he didn't take it away. And he didn't change it. That's one of the tests to know if you're following a false prophet Deut. 13(the whole chapter, it's short!) and Galatians 1:6-9 I hope you read those few verses, may YHWH bless you!
@graceupongrace2639
@graceupongrace2639 10 ай бұрын
The concern is that book of Mormon and the teachings of Mormon leaders is contrary to the Bible, it does add to it: it contradicts.
@NeilAldridge-jp7rl
@NeilAldridge-jp7rl 10 ай бұрын
it is a different Jesus, plain and simple. many different definitions of Jesus floating around these days. A person better pick the correct one.
@user-og2wt3le4j
@user-og2wt3le4j Ай бұрын
@@jawnatutorow Adultery same as thinking about it. Yes LDS do teach that. It was in our Sunday School lesson manual when we spent a year on the New Testament.
@glenlevinzon3012
@glenlevinzon3012 10 ай бұрын
Please don’t compare us Catholics to the Mormons, that’s distorting the truth
@bryanpratt5850
@bryanpratt5850 10 ай бұрын
You both believe in apostolic succession, and you both reject sola scriptura. You both reject grace alone through faith alone by Christ alone to the glory of God alone. Of course you believe God is a Trinity. Mormons believe in eternal progress in the sense of eternal increase meaning eternal lives in other words becoming like God, in exactly the same way that the god of this planet became a god. You and Protestants believe that teaching is heresy. Other than that, I would say the other main difference between you and them is your competing claims for being the true historic church that Jesus built. They believe in a complete apostasy of the priesthood and by extension the church from the earth. You of course would believe that there was no apostasy but that the priesthood and church remained intact down through the centuries and that God’s church is the RCC. Maybe this is oversimplified but I’d love to hear your feedback on if whether I was accurate in this assessment.
@AlexanderTate.
@AlexanderTate. 10 ай бұрын
I have a feeling that in the end it’s only going to matter if you either loved God or hated God when you died. I have a feeling Gods grace is more gracious than we could imagine. So I plan on seeing Protestants and Mormons and Roman Catholics and maybe even some Atheists in Heaven. They could be saved the same way the thief on the cross is. God’s grace. We only know a twinkle of his grace.
@AlexanderTate.
@AlexanderTate. 10 ай бұрын
It’s funny to see a Protestant, people who broke away from the Original churches, to talk about unity. Lol
@troylee4196
@troylee4196 10 ай бұрын
Unity around a lie isn't unity
@follow_the_way
@follow_the_way Ай бұрын
How are we able to be sure that we have come to KNOW Jesus? 1 John 2:3-4 says 3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him. So, the Bible clearly says that whoever says they KNOW Him but does not keep His commandments(plural) is a LIAR!! Plain and simple. The gospel that is taught to many people today has been reduced down to just "faith alone". This false gospel of "faith alone" has made following the commandments of Christ null and void. Obeying His commandments have been eliminated from the gospel and have been made subsequent and optional to salvation. Walking in the Spirit has been made optional as well. This false gospel of "faith alone" changes what Jesus said in Matthew 7:14 - For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. Instead of following the biblical teaching on salvation in Christ, they follow this false gospel which tells them that they can be saved by "faith alone", apart from having to keep the commandments of Christ. By teaching that we do NOT need to keep the commandments(plural) of Christ as the gospel, the saving power of the gospel has been neutralized. The end result is that millions of people have been deceived by the devil's masterpiece into thinking they have eternal life in Christ when they actually do not.
@user-og2wt3le4j
@user-og2wt3le4j Ай бұрын
I am almost 60 and do not fully know everything. Developing a relationship with God and following the teachings of Jesus Christ in a lifetime commitment. Evangelicals do not fully appreciate the power of keeping the commandments. Being "saved" is only part of the process. Grace is sufficient. However we need sanctification or behavior change of we truly want to walk with Christ as a disciple.
@follow_the_way
@follow_the_way Ай бұрын
@@user-og2wt3le4j Do you profess to be s Christian?
@follow_the_way
@follow_the_way Ай бұрын
@@user-og2wt3le4j Are you a Christian?
@follow_the_way
@follow_the_way Ай бұрын
@@user-og2wt3le4j Do you KNOW Christ?
@follow_the_way
@follow_the_way Ай бұрын
@@user-og2wt3le4j Follow the bible.
@Poeina
@Poeina 10 ай бұрын
sad your grandmother was Catholic and you don’t understand what the crucifix means to Catholics. I hope you ask your grandmother what she thinks of your description of what Catholics focus on in regards to the cross. If your church is Jesus’s true church you wouldn’t need to throw the Catholics under the bus during evangelization you could just preach the way the truth and the light. The bible was assembled based on the sacred tradition of Catholic Christians and what was taught in the mass. So before you go dissing Catholics maybe you should learn the origins of your own faith. in Jesus name I pray clarity over your evangelization efforts because Utah needs to know Jesus.
@leviwilliams9601
@leviwilliams9601 2 ай бұрын
I agree. My Reformed Baptist brothers tend to mistreat Catholics. I am reformed presbyterian, and I would definitely say I disagree with Catholics on many things, but I would not bash Catholics in front of Mormons like that. I adhere to the Nicene Creed and respect Catholics as brothers in the faith
@jeffwilson4693
@jeffwilson4693 10 ай бұрын
I asked God if I could believe the Missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. His spirit came to me and proved that he is real and told me that the LDS Missionaries are his servants. What is more certain than that. Did Peters testimony of Jesus Christ come from scriptures or in any way from flesh? No, it came from God the Father. And on that is what Jesus Christ builds his Church.
@kimberlyr5858
@kimberlyr5858 10 ай бұрын
What if I said to you that God’s spirit came to me, and proved the Mormon church was false?
@jeffwilson4693
@jeffwilson4693 10 ай бұрын
@@kimberlyr5858 "What if I said to you that God’s spirit came to me, and proved the Mormon church was false?" You and I both know that didn't happen. But in the theory you propose, I would ask you how you know the spirit to be God and not the devil or your own imagination.
@jawnatutorow
@jawnatutorow 10 ай бұрын
God gave us scripture to weed out the false prophets. Now, what happens when someone convinces them that the Bible is wrong and then makes his own doctrine that goes against pretty much everything in the Bible.... Who do we trust? Especially when God already warned us to not believe any man or Angel preaching a different doctrine, even if their prophecies came true. And not to trust our hearts because they are easily deceived....
@jeffwilson4693
@jeffwilson4693 10 ай бұрын
@@jawnatutorow "God gave us scripture to weed out the false prophets." God sends prophets from whom come scriptures. Has God ceased to be God? As for different doctrines, there is one bible, Christ, and gospel. But in traditional Christianity, there are tens of thousands of differing denominations, with no two alike in biblical interpretations. So they are essentially tens of thousands of different Christs and gospels. Now compare that to the Bible and what you just told me.
@jawnatutorow
@jawnatutorow 10 ай бұрын
@@jeffwilson4693 from what I've researched about religion, none of them follow the Bible, they all have doctrine outside of the Bible from a mans revelation that they choose over just following Scripture. How we know our understanding is accurate, is that there are two or more witnesses from scripture to verify it. Line upon line, precept upon precept... Too many people take a verse and leave the chapter. That's why there are so many different understandings. And people who mostly read Paul are the most confused it seems. Joseph Smith was right about there not being a single true church. He still is right about that. We should follow God, not man.
@rdalbright1
@rdalbright1 10 ай бұрын
Apologia Utah is a Calvinist group. Calvinism is a heresy.
@Liberator54321
@Liberator54321 10 ай бұрын
I’m not a Calvinist, but I’m curious why you say it’s heresy?
@Hez0
@Hez0 10 ай бұрын
Apologia Utah is a 1689 2nd London Baptist Confession of Faith church. Have you read chapter 9 of that confession, "Of Free Will"? I suggest you do if you haven't.
@Eagle_Powers
@Eagle_Powers 10 ай бұрын
How?
@anselman3156
@anselman3156 10 ай бұрын
I have observed that these Calvinists tend to attack in LDS theology the Biblical truth that all people are enabled by God to choose whether or not to accept grace and obey the commandments. They tend to an antinomian denial of the necessity of work to attain eternal salvation. They have a bad misunderstanding, like most Protestants, on the faith and works and grace questions. They deny the necessity and possibility of willing cooperation with God's grace, and the necessity of obeying the moral law and commandments to attain the highest reward of heaven.
@Paul-rg4is
@Paul-rg4is 10 ай бұрын
​@anselman3156 what is the highest reward of heaven?
@WhiteTrashWithCash
@WhiteTrashWithCash Ай бұрын
Can the Mormon guy start a sentence without saying “Like”?
@user-og2wt3le4j
@user-og2wt3le4j Ай бұрын
That's his age speaking. Younger people tend to love using that word.
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