I felt very alone in the world until I found your group a few years ago…after listening to so many of the discussions, it really helped me to let go of the burdens I was raised to carry in this religion ❣️. I don’t feel like I’m less than dirt anymore! I actually feel intelligent after learning so much and realizing I had known it was not for me since I was 15! Thank you all❣️

I have literally been praying to Heavenly Father to help me with my struggles with the LDS faith and now I am here! Thank You so much for helping me sort out so much confusion! Such a HUGE burden is being lifted off of me with each episode I watch. Thank You so much for doing this research for those of us that are so bogged down that we are unable to do it for ourselves.

I am devastated! Delighted to listen to your evidences, and have research to do. Deeply alarmed about the deception wrought by the prophet Joseph Smith who I once unquestionably revered. I am opening up to the conclusion that the restored Gospel is a fabrication of a narcissistic white man. It’s a painful disturbing thought. My question is: Why brother Joseph did you see fit to beguile us with YOUR fantastic visions of religiosity? Tribes of NZ Maori people renounced their spirituality to become enlivened by your supposed “further light and knowledge “. Your doctrine has encouraged so many of us to put aside our cultural / spiritual beliefs. I grieve ever being a part of this church. I am grateful that I deregistered a few years ago. Creating a direct relationship with Jesus free from the shackles of Mormonism is one of the most liberating things I’ve ever done! Thank you Mormon discussions ❤

It’s amazing what people will believe. Now aged 70. I don’t know anything. I know that I’ve no answers. I’m unsure if anything exists beyond this physical life. I do believe in truth, kindness and respect for others opinions. I fall down on the last one. I hope there’s an afterlife as my brother died when young and I want to be with him again.

The take away in five words: He made it all up.

My sister and my daughter are both Mormon converts who frequently try to convert me. Years ago while I was on a spiritual journey I read the book of Mormon and looked into their church. I immediately saw so many holes in Joseph Smith's story. It's so puzzling to me how people can believe this guy

So grateful for this podcast and everyone involved in it. I have so much regret, sadness, guilt , anger and hatred still that all stems from 10 wasted years in the church when my children were little. Life could have been so much better in those days. Thank you for what you do.

This video is overwhelmingly the most important and influential video I’ve seen in the last few years. It sparked a turning point in my life. Thank you Mike, John, and Nemo for your crucial work, voices, and compassion.

I went to Egypt, I showed our Egyptian Egyptainologist the Mormon picture and he said it was a funeral message. The jars on the bottom of the picture held the heart liver and other body pictures. He said I’ve seen it many many times from tourists.

And it came to pass that in my adult years I learned the truth and left the church

As a student of religions and history, and even masonry, I love this kind of evaluations. Thought I am not a Mormon.

The church of Joseph Smith of Latter Day Swindlers

Can’t wait! You are doing great work for those of us who want the truth!!!

Joseph Smith made religion so much more complicated than it needs to be. I am a never been and find it really hard to keep up. Still like what you're doing. .

As an ex-Catholic nevermo it's the historical context that makes the BoM and Joseph Smith so fascinating to me even though I don't buy almost any of the truth claims they say (and I've heard of some of the other stuff JS did like the polygamy), it's also what makes me a bit impressed with him because he had the guts to do what most other denominational founders won't do and that is to come up with his own scriptures and his followers managed to create a whole state for themselves (can't say the same for most other religious groups). The BoM is a time capsule as it's I've heard being pointed out and so are most other "scriptures" including the New Testament, I'm pretty much convinced at this point almost nothing is truly original and I guess JS couldn't get away from that even in his own time. I've mentioned this in other videos already but had I been a less educated farmer back then I might have bought into his claims unless I knew the Bible well and when I was still a Christian I mostly had to dismiss JS and his religion on the grounds he was a "false prophet" and that you weren't supposed to add more stuff to the Bible as Revelation 22:18 says (I think I've heard the apologetics on that one and in all fairness that passage seems to mostly refer to the prophecies on that book and not the Bible in general since there was no New Testament then)

He pulled them out of his butt, I mean hat!! Hat making used to use mercury, perhaps he was poisoned. No he was just one of those weird men who are never content with what they have and needed to be in power and control. Reminds me a lot of L Ron Hubbard....

Years ago I got curious and started reading The book of Morman. I hit the racism and just stopped reading. My heart just said nope that's not from God.

Thank you many times over for your content. I met with the missionaries for almost 3 yrs and couldn't get past the many issues I found with their theology, doctrine, and personal practices. Your content has informed me that I was on the right track questioning what I was being taught in their quest to convert me.

Joseph was accustomed to duping people re. treasure seeking, so, why would he not think he could dupe people about religion?

It's funny to me now just how obviously post-Enlightenment, Anglo-American Protestant the teachings of the Book of Mormon are. That alone cast doubt on it. When I was a Mormon I didn't understand it, but after being college educated about American protestantism and early folk ideas about Native Americans it cant be more clear.

Thanks to Mormon podcasts. You light up my life!

Dear organizers of the Mormon Stories Podcast, I am grateful for the thought-provoking and informative content you consistently provide. The episode "LDS Discussions Ep. 41" was particularly enlightening as it explored the influences on Joseph Smith and the emergence of Mormonism. Your dedication to uncovering the intricate connections between historical events, religious movements, and Joseph Smith's visionary experiences is commendable. It sheds new light on the foundations of one of America's most influential religious movements. I appreciate the inclusion of topics such as the unique doctrines and concepts in Mormonism, the Book of Mormon, the First Vision accounts, and the priesthood restoration. These discussions contribute to a more comprehensive understanding of Joseph Smith's ideas and the development of Mormonism. Furthermore, I was fascinated by the additional points mentioned in the show notes, such as the King Follett Discourse and the Council of Fifty. These aspects provide deeper insights into Smith's theological ideas and the complexities of his role as a religious and political figure. Thank you for your diligent research and for engagingly presenting this valuable information. Your podcast continues to be invaluable for those interested in exploring Mormon history and doctrine. With appreciation, Vitaly

He was an avid reader and he combined bits from many of the books he read, for the main bulk of the book. He created the rest in his own mind. It's really sad that so many people bought into this mess, at one time myself included. Until I started doing comparisons, which is when it all fell apart. I'm not one who accepts from bishops "well we must trust in the Lord about it all, it'll be revealed in God's own time". Sorry guys, Joe lied. A lot.

Its insane reading the BOM as an exmo. Just bluntly naming names of "Jesus christ and Mary". These names weren't even given to Isiah! It boggles my mind.

The first crack in my testimony of the Book of Mormon was on my mission. Someone asked me “if the Book of Mormon has the fullness of the gospel then why do we need doctrine and covenants and modern prophets?” I did not have an answer and it started my question which was already said in your show. Why didn’t the Book of Mormon say anything on the three degrees of glory? Or on gay marriage? Abortion? Or any modern issue today? It was a question answered after I left and after the ces letter. Joseph smith made it up

I always thought Joseph Smith was a creative psychopathic thinker to have dreamed up visions and convinced a huge populace they were real.

1:08:13 John: "Why did God even need Joseph? He could have just hired an editor, basically."

mike and nemo!! love LDS dicussions

I know that many parts of the Mormon church came from the Masonic Lodge. The handshake and some of the ideas.

I don’t know how to get out. My wife and all our children are deep in the church. And every time I see videos like this that gives me pause and start to doubt something happens that immediately renews my faith.

I would love to see Russell Marriott Nelson's face while he watches this episode.😅

This is a treasure trove of information. Wonderful summary and overview.

This just occurred to me, but isn't there deeper meaning in Joseph stealing the masonry ritual? The masonry ritual includes an oath actually sworn to God not to divulge it. Joseph stealing it clearly shows that he either didn't believe in oaths, didn't believe in God, or both.

Re. First Vision. There were other people who had visions of the divine around this period in America. Joseph Smith may have had something happen that he interpreted as a first vision, but there were other people claiming the same thing at that time.

If you are asking me? I would say he got his information from his family traditions, from the prevailing views and legends, in books, current teachings, both religious and secular, and using his imagination and story telling ability in the geographical area of the Susquehanna River, and all the Native American villages close by, he used the rhetoric of the Bible, common for the time, to speak in animated feeling to his amanuensis/stenographers, using the dictation method.

I cant help but to think that if JS made it all up and therby lead millions of people astray, he's currently burning in a fiery hell or in the very outer darkness that he always talked about. And that is a crazy place to find oneself in and it would be all his fault. I want to ask him if it was worth it...

Love learning about religions so I enjoy your podcasts. However, I’m feeling so foolish right now. I’m an old lady and somehow I’ve always envisioned JS holding a pile of golden DINNER plates. Never too old to learn, eh?

The U.S. has always had religious crazies. That's what I've learned from this podcast.

1:20 As of August 2023, the signs of the Masonic penalties have not been removed from the endowment. The pantomimes for suicide are only shortened: the thumb extended, representing the knife to slit your throat or your vitals, and the hand in cupping shape to catch your heart or your bowels. The temple matron lied to me and told me she doesn’t know what the signs mean. I used to love going to the temple all the time, but now I will never go back.😢 The endowment is definitely not from Jesus.

You guys are doing such important work, thank you!

Are you guys going to do an episode on the origins of the plan of salvation? Would love to hear something like that. Keep up the good work!

You guys present the evidence so well and it answers so many questions that I’ve had about the church!! Thank you!

Amazing insights... but I do think it's important to recognize the "Burned Over" period from Western New York as notable phase of early U.S. spiritual history

One thing that Joseph Smith seems to capitalize on really well is building off ideas already happening. For example, it was already accepted that a book can give divine guidance-the Bible. That book is the cornerstone to many Christian faiths. How convenient that the Book of Mormon becomes the cornerstone. People were also more open to criticize the churches off the day, like they’ve gone faulty. Joseph Smith’s church was a confirmation of those people’s ideas already.

Com todo respeito, esse foi o melhor podcast que já vi por aqui. Muito bem esclarecido, bem detalhado e muitas verdades, que contribuem bastante para tirar a venda dos olhos de muitos membros que quiser aceitar estes relatos tão necessários. Congratulations.

The same thing happened to me when I was 21 years old. I had an experience like this man and like Joseph Smith. Call it a near death experience call it a psychedelic experience call it anything you like. It happened. And when I heard the story of Joseph Smith it sounded like my own experience. I ended up joining and it's been decades of experiencing the church in this community all over the world except for Africa. No matter how it started it's pretty amazing that it became the best organization on the face of the earth for teaching the principles of happiness to families and children.

This is exactly what I’ve been looking for. Thanks for all the research you’ve done!

Wait, so millions of Mormons can't drink coffee because someone in the 19th century cracked a joke?

Joseph Smith basically wanted lots of money and later access to lots of women and therefore made up his religion.

After been given pamphlets by Mormons I thought that about two thirds of their religion looked to have definite similarities to Swedenborgianism. I doubt that Joseph Smith could have concocted a religion that's been as successful as it has been without using Swedenborg's ideas as a general model.

I am not Mormon. Never have been. Never waned to be. . But I have a bone to pick In one breath, you say that Joseph Smith was uneducated In another breath, you say that he read a lot of books and was influenced by them. Can you honestly be uneducated and yet still be an avid reader.

Y’all have an awesome podcast as always

Amazing podcast! Thank you so much!

J. Smith's made up story about how he was visited by Moroni telling him about buried treasure goes back to his childhood hobby reading pirate tales of Captain Kidd.

Yes, it’s such a joke. Don’t drink your matcha tea but go ahead have yourself a gallon of Mountain Dew or coke daily 😂

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree!

In terms of the waters that he was swimming in, I would love to see a similarly themed episode about the New Testament and the council that decided what was in and what was out.

If I was to pick one power packed episode of Mormon Stories or any other podcast for that matter to share with believing members of the church it might be this one. Thank you. Also I wanted to say that while I was listening to the comments on the first vision i think there is something you kind of under emphasized, as also in previous discussions. You rightly state that there are no contemporary accounts of his first vision for 12 years, no record of him talking about it to anyone, no mentions of it in that 12 year period from any one else.. you said he discussed it with a Methodist minister who had a bad reaction, maybe people ( apologists) suppose he decided to keep quiet about it after that … but I think you should make more of his own words, in his own history as laid out clearly in the pearl of great price - there are several paragraphs or verses which very clearly state that when he was still fourteen and fifteen he was being singled out and persecuted by prominent leaders of different churches for talking about the first vision. He very clearly describes there being a lot of discussion and reaction ( persecution) to his claims he had a vision. He compares himself to Paul and the persecution he received for proclaiming his vision. I think you should emphasize this more , Joseph is not suggesting he kept this quiet at first, he claims there was a big reaction and persecution when he was 14 and 15…. But the historical record is void of any mention of it until the 1830’s?? Makes no sense at all..

i love this channel. thank you for all the great content and all your work!! and i want to see Mike;s dogs!

Can you imagine the insights to be gleaned if we trained and fine tuned Large Language Models for the BoM and the 12+ books of the time. A superhuman review and analysis more thorough and accurate than ever before. I’m looking forward to doing this soon

I want to point something very interesting out. During the time of George Frederick Handel, it was written in the oratorio of dixit dominus by we sing many times throughout the oratorio, Abraham, Melchizedek. Now dixit dominus was written somewhere around 1706 on. It was either written in Germany or italy. And it had a lot to do with Catholicism and the beliefs back then. So it was already in existence well before it was written in our doctrine for the priesthood. Maybe someone should check into that

This episode had an excellent use of words, and I was not at all confused by Mike’s words, as I have previously been. I don’t mean to be such an English major, but I love it when I can understand.

Love this series!

I remember when I was younger asking why we weren't all vegetarian and people at church looked at me like I was crazy

My sister brings up that Smith was illiterate whenever I talk to her about issues with the creation of the religion. Is there info out there around this?

Powerful episode!

I was going to the temple to be closer to God. When I learned that it was a Masonic cemetery and my garments were masonic and I had NO IDEA I had to ask myself HOW doing a ritual I knew nothing about helped my relationship with God... it doesn't.

OMG. I could talk for DAYS about where, when and why J.Smith came up with his half-baked religion, who were his influences, what he likely experienced in the "Burned-over District" at that time, and what he probably read that he misinterpreted and made into the weirdest leftover-soup he called a church. For hours. With receipts.

0:08 As a nevermo living in Utah, it's difficult to imagine how otherwise intelligent adults can base their life around an unbelievable fairytale. The tooth fairy is more believable.

And how come the BOM uses a version of his name which is a Greek translation of his real name.

Loved this, a great review!

Very helpful gentlemen. Excellent presentation.

Wow great episode! You guys have nailed it!

I thought I knew about things,but apparently there were many people who were doing this back then. Keep digging guys, y'all Rock 🪨😊

Good episode I learned a lot of things. The similarities between the Masonic information and the Mormon church. Are just too similar to be denied, and yes I'm an inactive member. Looking forward to hearing more.

Awsome podcast

Thank you. Watching from Alaska. Much like the frenzy of modern day Influencers, all of this is psychologically indicative of a primal / primitive desire for Relevance and the illusion of Control Issues in a world where life presents things over which humans cannot possibly have meaningful control. Superstition is humanities greatest mental health crisis.

Since first time in LDS I never believe that, I saw the vision by JS like fiction or fantasy and Idolatría to JS l had been a lot arguments with my husband, and feel so bad, why I looking information about the true. Right now I have talked to my children about LDS. With my husband was a fight because he feel very well in the community, but now he is open his mind. Never wanted seal my marriage . And my perception about baptized the death baptize is totally unrespefully.

Great summary episode

Joseph Smit DID NOT write the Book of Mormon. The BOM came mainly from the hand of Sidney Rigdon--collaborating with Hyrum Smith who was an educated brother of Joseph who attended Dartmouth University (not far from the Smith's family home. The basis (theme) of the BOM came mainly from a book entitled "A View Of The Hebrews" authorized Ethan Smith (no relation to Joseph Smith's family. Ethan Smith was also a contemporary fellow with Hyrum Smith as Dartmouth College. The leading figure in the early days of the LDS church was in fact Sidney Rigdon (first convert) and young Joseph Smith was view merely as you would view a 'child profit' in a Pentecostal tent revival. Smith's notoriety as a psychic money finder with his magic seer-stone with his money digging was widely known and this background was exploited early on to the folk magic believing rural public to sell the BOM.

Remember mormons: eat sweets, pay, and obey!

❤so so awesome! Thank you! I am not Mormon and couLd never be. I am old now and find the studies to be captivating.

59 minutes. It's about obedience.

Belief is truely strange !

Years ago in an upper level American history class at the University of Nevada Las Vegas, my professor Dr. Elizabeth White, taught about the temperance movement. As part of that movement there was something called the Cold Water movement in the north east. I’m don’t have primary source documents supporting this, but I would imagine Joseph Smith knew about the Cold Water movement. Does anyone have more information on this?

Great perspectives I’m very grateful thank you

Early christian fathers and early christian writings talk about certain doctrines such as: baptisms for the dead, deification, baptism for salvation, future apostasy and kingdoms of glory and separate heavens. I think its important to be aware while many of these doctrines arent explicitly taught in the Bible clearly, there are many quotes from christian fathers and in writings.

I'm really familiar with the writings of Swedenborg, and noticed that John pronounced his name with an "ir" sound as many do when they first come across it.... but it's spelled with an "or" and that's the way it should be pronounced SwedenbORg... the same as 'for' or 'pork,' etc... Great insight, guys...

Well done.

Dont you gys think that Joseph Smith copyed the style of his revelation from Islam angel sword aso?

1:17:00 this is so close to the cults temple ceremony, it made me nauseous. I went through when you still had to act out killing yourself in 3 different ways.

I thought on the Dartmouth episode about Hyrum Smith (on Mormonism Live) addressed that the beehive was NOT masonic?

6:43 King James Version not available to Lehi, yet it’s in the BOM.

Incredible episode... Very well done guys

With regards to the book of enoch. Ive read Colby's article and hes arguing for the circulation of 1 Enoch being around in josephs environment. While i dont think we can say if Joseph would have had access to it, i lean towards he probably didnt. But lets say he did, the thing is the parallels between 1 enoch and josephs enoch are slight and not very strong. Wheras the parallels and themes are striking and near identical to the book of giants found in the dead sea scrolls, purported to be one of the earliest enochic documents and it being only 3 pages vs over 100 pages for 1 enoch. Therefore even if 1 enoch was in the mileu, that doesnt explain how strong the parallels are to the book of giants which it doesnt share with 1 enoch. Watch these 2 videos which go into more explanation.

While i concede the similarities between Josephs first vision and these other ones shared. You could interpret or argue that these influenced Joseph Smiths first vision. However, i allow room that these similar visionary experiences may also have happened. You cant know if Joseph is directly taking or borrowing from them or that this invalidates his vision. Also i dont think Joseph not writing his vision down 12 years after is clear evidence of later fabrication. I dont think not writing it down at the time, also theres no evidence Joseph kept a journal before 1830. Also in his history, Joseph only tells his family about the angels visitation because hes explicitly told by the angel to do so. If it were not so he may have kept it private as he did his First Vision. I dont think it necessrily means because he wasnt spreading his vision abroad, that means he later invented it from his mileu. Fawn Brodie believed Joseph came up with his 1838 fv to bolster his prophwtic claims due to authority troubles during kirtland. Yet Brodie was incoreect in her theory/assumption because we have earlier accounts she wasnt aware of and just assumed Josephs motives.

NeverMo here who grew up amidst Mormons in Arizona. Who is Nephi?

As an investigator ( no longer affiliated with the Church) and after joining was able to draw comparisons between the Catholic and the Latter Day Saints Church. In my opinion they have many similarities and that the differences bring both Churches closer. I embrace the similarities and find that the differences are divisive hence, prefer not to go there. Christian churches have a common denominator and really that's all that matters. Thanks.

Joseph’s word of wisdom says you can drink alcohol as long as you make it yourself.

Cult