MOST POWERFUL LS3 INTAKE EVER? SUPER RICHIE DUAL-PLENUM, ADJUSTABLE RUNNER LENGTH AND PLENUM VOLUME

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MOST POWERFUL LS3 INTAKE EVER? SUPER RICHIE DUAL-PLENUM, ADJUSTABLE RUNNER LENGTH AND PLENUM VOLUME

Рет қаралды 12,419

Күн бұрын

HOW MUCH POWER IS PLENUM VOLUME WORTH? HOW TO MAKE DIY LS3 INTAKE MANIFOLD. MUCH POWER IS A CUSTOM INTAKE WORTH ON AN LS3? HOW MUCH POWER IS RUNNER LENGTH WORTH? DO DUAL-PLENUM INTAKES MAKE MORE POWER? ARE DUAL THROTTLE BODIES BETTER A SINGLE THROTTLE BODY? WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SHORTEN RUNNER LENGTH? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I RAN A CUSTOM DUAL-PLENUM INTAKE EQUIPPED WITH DUAL 92-MM THROTTLE BODIES. THE CUSTOM INTAKE ALSO FEATURED ADJUSTABLE RUNNERS TO DIAL IN THE EFFECTIVE RPM RANGE. THE OTHER ADJUSTABLE FEATURE INCLUDED THE ABILITY TO EFFECTIVELY (MORE THAN) DOUBLE THE PLENUM VOLUME. CHECK THE RESULTS OF THE POWER GAINS AND ADJUSTABILITY VS A FAST LSXR INTAKE.

Пікірлер: 91

@bdugle1 10 ай бұрын

Symmetrical and parallel intake tubes cry for an rpm-controlled slider setup. Optimize that runner length for the best of all worlds! Thanks for a very interesting test, Richard!

@madmodsgarage1179 10 ай бұрын

I have slight feeling that the plenum thing might have more to do with the fact that plenums and their cylinders get connected, not so much the volume change. Vacuum pulses between two banks can interact, make scavenging effect, increase power in some particular rpm range, and f things up elsewere. When seperated, there are interactions just within each bank... just a theory... and premonition ;)

@michaelblacktree 10 ай бұрын

This is basically what BMW does with their inline 6 engines. They put a butterfly valve in the middle of the plenum. When the valve closes, it's divided into 2 plenums (the front 3 and the back 3 cylinders). When the valve opens, it becomes a single plenum. They claim that when the valve is closed, it improves low-end torque. And they say when it opens, the resonance helps to feed the opposing cylinders in the firing order (at higher RPM).

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

very common on inline 6 motors to run 3 and 3, connecting the plenums changes plenum volume

@madmodsgarage1179 10 ай бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 ...aaaaand creates COMMON plenum ;) 🤝

@bonzainews 10 ай бұрын

How much different than a Dodge Viper?

@dadsgarage420 9 ай бұрын

We’ll he’s saying the kegladon did nothing but the common plenum might be a thing

@Scott_Buchanan 10 ай бұрын

I love that you’re testing these on LS engines, the ford ones were cool too!

@jonsetzer9556 Ай бұрын

On a carburetor application the plenum volume would be a lot more crucial because of signal to the booster on fuel injection you can give it the fuel regardless of signal.

@darylmorse 10 ай бұрын

The LT6 engine in the Z06 Corvette has three valves between the two banks of the plenum. First one opens, then the other two open, resulting in power increases through the RPM range.

@loundclear9279 10 ай бұрын

The super richi intake awsome! and it makes power. makes plumbing nitrous real easy lol

@joshiek7839 9 ай бұрын

We use the Fast manifold here on aus on the Camaro supercar. 5.7 7500rpm limit. 600hp. They have an inlet restrictor as required by rules

@Selmerpilot 10 ай бұрын

Ferrari and Porsche looked into this a ton in the 90s and possibly even earlier. The Ferrari 348 then 360 and virtually every NA engine after ran manifolds like these. Porsche 964 and 993 and after ran this only they had internal butterflies as well to actively vary chamber volume

@ChurchAutoTest 10 ай бұрын

Hell, even Honda did this on their J-series V6. Minivan power!

@outlawnova1 10 ай бұрын

try a third dbw throttle body that connects the rear together : )

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

POINTS

@michaelblacktree 10 ай бұрын

Interesting that the crossover point is around 3500 RPM, for the twin vs common plenum setups. The activation point for the plenum divider valve in my BMW is around 3400-3500 RPM. Just a coincidence?

@yeahitskimmel 10 ай бұрын

My old 99 Mercury Cougar V6 had a secondary larger set of lower intake ports, they kicked in at 3450RPM if you were over something like 75% throttle

@ChurchAutoTest 10 ай бұрын

@@yeahitskimmel Honda switched a plenum butterfly between 3800-4000 rpm on their V6

@knowbull5hit590 10 ай бұрын

Same thing with the runner control valves in a Mark 8 Lincoln and the other early 4v motors i think

@magnum9987 10 ай бұрын

Richard, I would like to propose two tests: the first would require a four-cylinder with a conventional tunnel, ram style manifold. The question would be how does the length of the hem, Holtz resonator, the tube in front of the throttlebody, affect torque in power. The second test would require a V-8 set up similar to what you have but I have a concept : dual plenums that are divided, in a similar fashion to a duel-plane intake manifold, where a pair of cylinders from each bank cross over to the other bank. My hypothesis is that this would dramatically improve torque across the entire rev range provided the correct runner length is selected. This would also be a neat manifold to test the crossover tube on as well.

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

I'M CURIOUS-WHY DO YOU THINK A CROSS OVER WOULD CHANGE POWER WITH THE SAME RUNNER LENGTH-AND I HAVE RUN ENDLESS TESTS ON AIR INTAKE TUBES ON 4 CYLINDER HONDAS. PLUS YOU CAN'T HAVE A CONVENTIONAL (V8 STYLE) TUNNEL RAM ON A 4 CYLINDER.

@3800S1 10 ай бұрын

I've done some testing years ago on the dyno as it was common urban myth that no intake pipe and a pod on the throttle was the best way, and the results were completely the opposite. What I found is there is a sweet spot length for the ram pipe before the TB and the gain was inversely proportional to the harmonic number. So lengths that were tuned to the 1st harmonic gained the most, but where ridiculously long, near 2m on our engine. There is a fair bit of testing to get the ideal length that also fits the engine bay. But if you don't care, anything is way better than straight throttle and/or pod and as long as you can practically make it. The diameter I didn't test but I assume going too small is bad, same like how a too small runner kills power quick smart but going too big isn't anywhere near as bad. I also found plenum volume to not do much, but my understanding is a big plenum is very helpful when the TB is too small due to increasing the efficiency of the TB when it is too small. Such as a restricted class in racing. But for anything else, too big of a plenum makes the throttle response lazy due to the finite speed of sound.

@shaneshane1379 10 ай бұрын

Looks like something off a formula 1 engine. Tunnel rams still rule. One.day, just maybe one day soon, Richard might test a efi ram with two 4v throttle bodies on a engine like that. The more the engine has, the more a ram compliments it.

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

that video is already up

@allenl9031 10 ай бұрын

Put a drive by wire third throttle body as your plenum on/off switch, program rpm open closing you want. Super-Super Richie intake.

@patlandymore7035 10 ай бұрын

An excellent and very informative video. 👍🏼👍🏼

@vernmax9422 10 ай бұрын

I love these intake videos. Can you try extending a pipe pre throttle body . My mind was blown when you said that would be part of the plenum volume

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

I tested that also

@114lambo 10 ай бұрын

I think the rear extension allows for cooler rear cylinder Temps and more power

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

that's not what is going on

@bcbloc02 9 ай бұрын

So you need a wastegate actuator on your runners that can make the runners shorter as boost rises. 🙂

@johnwehunt4305 10 ай бұрын

Edelbrock LS3 CrossRam is likely the best ever made.

@grgfraiser 10 ай бұрын

Reminds me of the 3.9 LZ9 from GM, It had a variable length intake stock.

@shadowopsairman1583 10 ай бұрын

And no one made 1 for the LS

@navisingh8816 10 ай бұрын

Please cover the 8.8 PSI🙏

@rocsti5402 10 ай бұрын

Rich maybe I missed it but have you ever tested "barrel intercoolers"...

@Emilthehun 10 ай бұрын

Awesome work as always. I wonder how your intake would do with a turbo setup on 5.3

@chrisgallimore9083 10 ай бұрын

It would be interesting to see this test done in a boosted application. I'd like to see how it responds with adjustments to the plenum volume.

@bowhite1293 10 ай бұрын

What about increasing plenum volume around the venturi instead in the back. I wonder if it would help more

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

intake venturi?

@bowhite1293 10 ай бұрын

Yes the funnels ducts that are in the plenum add volume there to perhaps unshroud them.

@exploranator 9 ай бұрын

Curious about same test that changes runner cross-section, also. Could it be that varying runner cross-section will move power around the rpm band?

@kleenhall6885 10 ай бұрын

Sooooo ls motors need a integra gsr type intake 🤔🤔🤔

@ts302 10 ай бұрын

Great video Mr. Holdener! Based on your test results, I would suspect no change in engine output if a carb style 180 deg 'dual plenum' was run. What say you?

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

a dual plane intake (carb style) would hurt power

@tempest162 10 ай бұрын

I wish we could see you play around with a LT6 so we can see this effect in a super car level

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

they already did a good job on the LT6 induction system

@tempest162 10 ай бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 yea but I love how you break it down for us mere human. You need to start selling your own line of LS upgrades or open up a store since we already trust your recommendations

@RobertWelchman 10 ай бұрын

Richard, do you think the gain in that mid region is a function of plenum volume or taking advantage of a harmonic between the two banks? My Porsche Cayman (987.1 S) has the same concept with a flapper valve in the middle.

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

What do you think changing plenum volume does? It changes the Helmholtz resonating frequency

@marcs8563 10 ай бұрын

You ever do a comparison with individual throttle bodies?

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

I have run them if that is your question

@marcs8563 10 ай бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 What did it do to the power curve compared the fast. You could probably play with intake length too on individual throttles

@dubjay3779 10 ай бұрын

What hp difference would having tapered runners make?

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

very little

@jimlathrop8603 10 ай бұрын

Could it be that the size of the pipe joining the plenums together is specific to certain rpm ranges? Where a different size pipe might see gains at a different rpm. Then if you had say 3 different sized connectors all with separate opening valves they could be opened at the correct rpms for more consistent gains? Maybe this wasn't a test of plenum size but one of joining the plenums...

@ChurchAutoTest 10 ай бұрын

I'd say you might be able to measure something. But given that many OEMs use a simple butterfly valve between two chambers with no pipes at all, I don't think it'll make a massive difference. Remember the pipe lengths between plenums are really short.

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

the pipe size does change plenum volume

@jimlathrop8603 10 ай бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 so if you were to change the 2 plenums separately to match the increase you made with the cross over pipe you think the results would be identical then?

@anthonyanderson1479 10 ай бұрын

I wonder how this would be on a lower rpm motor

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

works well with the right runner length

@Lagrange1186 10 ай бұрын

Did I see a photo of stand off injectors at one point? How well did that work?

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

not well on that application

@Lagrange1186 10 ай бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 thanks for taking the time to talk about that in the live Q&A video that followed.

@generalsixty2133 10 ай бұрын

Is it possible to build a single carb SBC tunnel ram that makes big low rpm power for a boat ?

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

dual plane would likely be better

@Guns_N_Gears 10 ай бұрын

Sure, you could build one, or you can buy a single 4bbl mounting flange for a tunnel ram

@RHYNOMAN12 10 ай бұрын

So I’ve been looking to build a manifold for a 2.5T, is there a measurement to calculate a good size for plenum size? I’ve found 1/2 the size of motor to be ideal is this true?

@ChurchAutoTest 10 ай бұрын

Depends on how much rpm the motor will see. If it's a sub 6000 rpm engine, plenum volume plays a minor role. Start spinning up near 8k+ and you'll want multiples of the engine volume - more the higher you go. I don't think I'd go any smaller than half the engine size though.

@RHYNOMAN12 10 ай бұрын

@@ChurchAutoTest great info. What I’ve calculated out with a lambo lower intake and fabricated plenum and all its around 1.8L. Will be a turbo motor spun to about 7500. I’ve used a number of measurements from integrated engineerings 2.0 manifold runners as it was nice to rev up to 8000 rpm. Figured some of that info should be decently close to the swap motor. Thanks mate really helped with assuring I’m along a correct line. Even if not perfect.

@Akestler 10 ай бұрын

Would a 20% merge (x-pipe) do anything on intake runners? 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

merging the intake?

@seanmabey1609 10 ай бұрын

Do this test with boost next please

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

DOES THE SAME THING

@chillville2938 10 ай бұрын

Is there a way to run a dual throttle body on a sc 3800 build? Because that looks so dope, I want to get building on my 3800 🤣

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

THERE ARE NOT DUAL INLETS INTO THE BLOWER UNFORTUNATELY

@jasonbirch1182 10 ай бұрын

@@richardholdener1727WHAT? SPEAK UP!

@jimlathrop8603 10 ай бұрын

@jasonbirch1182 suppose you could run duel superchargers....

@jasonbirch1182 10 ай бұрын

@@jimlathrop8603 good luck with the belt.

@chillville2938 10 ай бұрын

@@jimlathrop8603 or I can run a dual filter inlet adapter in place of a throttle body and run 2 throttle bodies on top of that. Might be super silly

@Lsx.jxan1 9 ай бұрын

This is crank horsepower correct ?

@richardholdener1727 9 ай бұрын

yes

@scotttimpany2845 10 ай бұрын

#wrongheaders

@hondatech5000 10 ай бұрын

Lol

@gagemosley8365 10 ай бұрын

Wrong cam 😂

@volvospede 10 ай бұрын

Any cam is a wrong cam!

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

I be needing that dual-plenum cam

@gagemosley8365 10 ай бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 I was just kidding about the wrong cam, we all use to joke about it on sloppymechanics, plus he had the shirt on today. On another note could vvt possibly do that? LOL

@richardholdener1727 10 ай бұрын

the dual-plenum cam was a joke

@jasonbirch1182 10 ай бұрын

When you say increased/decreased volume are you removing the entire u turn assembly or just capping where the center joiner is? Im wondering if the resonance change from them not being connected is as big a factor as volume. A throttle body between them would be interesting to see the effect.