In all honesty I’d suggest putting more money into panels rather than controllers - unless you’re very short on roof space. MPPT is great at maximising what you have in good conditions. But if you’re not using it when it’s being generated I think the better investment is in panels.

@@AdamWelchUK Thanks. Good advice. I think a couple of 50W panels should suffice for my needs. Not planning on using an inverter, as I can use an extension cable from the house for large power draw needs. Just looking to hook up a security camera, some LEDs and a radio for occasional use, and power everything from an old 70Ah SLA car battery that's still in good condition. Might invest in a decent leisure battery down the line. Plenty of shed roof space for panels (approx 10ft x 4ft, south facing). The shed is around 35m from the mains board under the house, a patio, and garden, so digging and installing SWA cable was going to be too time consuming and uneconomical for my needs.

Czyli to jest PWM ? Znalazłem na alledrogo taki sam i nie wiem czy odsyłać czy zostać przy Chińczyku z pwm.

Thanks, I wondered what those were called.

The original tamiya connector had no such side extentions.

Yup. But when I upgraded to I could have saved $150 if I’d had one of them there mppt stickers.

Yes there is a wave form on there isn’t there - noticed in the edit. Cheers

Not much wrong with lead acid and pwm if you have a basic or convenience system. Although going mppt regardless of the battery type is best! Fortunately my lead acid batteries didn’t read all the recent hate for lead acid batteries so they’re working really good. Will they go 15 years? Probably not. But they’ll probably do 5 years for $600 instead of 15 years for $1300....and I don’t have to keep them warm in winter.

that's the model with auto self distruct. Nice one.

You're mistaken. PWM chargers don't need power conversion to work. These type of chargers basically connect the solar panel directly to the battery at a certain interval and varying duty cycle. That's about it. If a charger doesn't have a reasonable inductor it can't be a mppt charger as this type of chargers definitely need power conversion.

@@egbertegberts5384 I had asked the question a long time back when I knew little about these things wanted to clarify. I know better now. Incase you still want to answer the question (for someone else who might be reading it), the question was: If there was a charge controlled with a buck converter without MPPT ability would you be able to tell them apart just by looking for the inductor.

In your determining or testing phase what is the battery doing? If you allow the solar panel voltage to go above the voltage of the battery how do you stop the battery from raising up too high? If you lower it, you’ll stop charging. If you disconnect the solar from the battery to determine MPP - what do you do with the power while it’s disconnected? You need a dc to dc converter in the middle so you can keep the output voltage stable within a range, and the input current at the highest possible value (you don’t really care about the voltage on the input as long as it is higher than the output and within spec). MPPT charge controller are more complicated to increase efficiency - they need to use the higher voltage of the solar panel to convert into a higher current to charge the battery. Without a DC to DC converter you can’t do that. Without an inductor, you can make a buck converter. I hope I’ve read your comment correctly and that my explanation helps?

@@AdamWelchUK Adam, I am not seeking to argue but I remain unconvinced. To answer your points: When you briefly measure the PV open cct voltage, the flow of current from the PV source has to be cut for a few ms and there is no longer a source of PV current to charge the battery so, even though the input PV volts rise, this rise is temporarily isolated from the charging circuit and is not going to harm the battery. With the panel temporarily disconnected then, there is no power drawn so you don't have to "do" anything to deal with it, PV panels don't mind being left O/C. You certainly need to convert between higher panel volts and lower battery volts but battery chargers often do this by applying a PWM signal which has short periods of higher volts and current when achieving a desired lower average volts/amps. This is how a cheap PWM solar charger allows a "24v" panel to connect to and charge a "12v" battery without an inductor. Essentially what I am saying is that the difference between MPPT and PWM in this context is essentially how intelligently the device sets the voltage feeding the battery under charge so as not to drag down the PV panel below its MPPT optimum, rather than the approach actually used to reduce the voltage which may or may not use an inductor. Yes I would prefer to see this voltage change being done with a buck converter and an inductor but I don't see this as vital for MPPT to apply.

@@rhiantaylor3446 Firstly I don't think we're arguing, discussing a theory I'd suggest. You are correct that you can release the panel from the circuit and take a voltage - but you're only measuring your open circuit voltage (actually this is a method used by some solar charge controllers because the MPPT is usually in the region of 80% of the open circuit voltage). In your first comment you talked about determining the maximum panel draw power - power indicates you're looking at current and voltage. This is why I asked where is that current going when you are testing without DC to DC conversion. PWM'ing a higher voltage gives only a pseudo voltage at the MPP. In reality the voltage is either at the high or low figure. A meter might show a mid voltage, but a scope shows whats really going on over time. A low pass filter could be used, but I'm not sure it'd work very well because when the PWM signal is low, you'll quickly discharge the cap to the battery voltage effectively reducing the effectiveness of the filter. I've put together a PWM solar charge controller and spent a lot of time sat in from of a scope looking at panel voltage while it charges a battery. I think the point I'm making is that for a highly efficient MPPT solar charge controller, DC To DC conversion must happen - otherwise there are as many losses as in PWM. I'd be very interested to see what you are proposing in practice if it's something you think you could put together. Thanks again for the discussion :-)

No you knwe IT was not a MPPT Becaus any MPPT would hawe max PV watt stampt on IT

Thanks David. I’m a fan of the EPEver range of mppt charge controllers, but also the renogy rover I tested last year was pretty good too. Thanks again

Just as I tried to show in the video I was fairly sure it may not be MPPT from looking at the listing. Once I looked at other listings I was even more sure. For me, it was worth buying the product to make a video to help others out. Without the cheap Chinese sellers on eBay I wouldn’t have a channel! If they make good products, or bad ones, they all make for an interesting video :-) The tricky thing is when I review something favourably and then they change it for the worse - just like the CPT-2410 :-(

Adam Welch thanks, I enjoy your channel and it was your review of the Epever that convinced me to buy one and I have been happy with it. Thanks

@@AdamWelchUK just starting out and there so much to off grid solar let alone getting scammed. thanks from Los Angeles, CA

Good choice.

How would have double the watts by itself improve its efficiency? It can’t; just makes more watts

@@fishhuntadventure No I did not mean to create more watts (thjough more panels will equal more watts) I meant the right range of volts going out to the controller... If the rated voltage (i.e. the open terminal voltage) of the array is close to the voltage of the battery bank THAT is what makes the efficiency of the total system greater... The more the controller (no matter what type) needs to adjust (up or down) the incoming voltage to the battery voltage the less efficient the controller and therefor the system can operate...

nothing

It has a similar lcd and button arrangement doesn’t it? Although I’ve only put my hands on the 20amp tracer models I’ve seen plenty of other videos and images to be confident that EPEver MPPT products do all have decent inductors in them for buck converting.

IT is a fair Produckt All in metal casting .. not ip water rated like EPever MPPT IT keep What IT promis .. you can't get a farrai for a lada's prize unless IT is stolen .. and you liv in Romania or Poland

If you are after super cheap and don’t need any other features other than charging have a look at this video... Cheap(est?) Lithium MPPT Solar Charge Controller CN3722 - 12v Solar Shed kzfaq.info/get/bejne/os-JjZihvrW-dHk.html Otherwise the only one I can recommend that I’ve used and is still available is the tracer range from EPEver - they are cheap for the amount of features in my opinion.

Adam Welch Yes go for the epever , it works well, and had user settings witch is great! IAM using it in my RV to charge my DIY lithium ion battery 👍🏻👍🏻. Cheers

Victron - worth the extra money

@@AdamWelchUK I've been asking for away to override equalization date on the a epever tracer. It seems odd your only chance to equalize is on the 28th what if no sun that day??? Is there away???