Don’t get DQ! Conveying Information vs Misrepresenting Game State

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MST.TV

MST.TV

Ай бұрын

How to avoid getting one of the WORST Penalties in Yugioh! Misrepresenting Game State
#yugioh #ruling #yubel
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Пікірлер: 134
@silentg5727
@silentg5727 Ай бұрын
Hey Tom, I'm actually the Melodious player of that feature match! I was kicking myself. If you watch it back, you can see I'm reading a lot of the Yubel cards throughout the entire match, but for that card, for some reason, I chose to verbally verify what it did rather than double check the last line of text. The Yubel player and I were both apologizing for not fully explaining the card / not reading the whole card, respectively. XD lesson learned, just keep reading the cards
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
Hey Thomas, Good show on the Bacha and Etoile play! Great use of protection. In regards to game 3: The question you asked was towards clarification of a card effect and Jenni’s Nightmare Pain. If you asked what that card did and Jenni likely would’ve just passed you the card. I was reviewing game 1 looking for a point which the card was read. There may have been verbal communication, but the game state rewind was incorrect. As the last legal game state was battle phase, but I am not the judge and at the end of the day the infraction was changed to PE minor - not maintaining game state.
@silentg5727
@silentg5727 Ай бұрын
@@MSTTV Thank you! For game 3: I believe the reason the judges stopped the game and rewound to main phase was because right before I summoned Sonata, I had asked to clarify that the battle phase effect was "if I can attack, I must attack" which Jenni echoed the same wording a 2nd time without adding "a Yubel monster." That said, I was prepared to take the L and attack with both monsters for not rereading it thoroughly myself. That said, I was also surprised to go back to main phase lol, though I think game 3 was Jenni's by that point either way.
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
@@silentg5727 jenni did have the advantage in that position, you were hit by hand trap and lotus. Really just limited options all together
@silentg5727
@silentg5727 Ай бұрын
@@MSTTV For sure. I realized afterward that if I had hit the Lotus with Imperm on the summon, I would've been in a much more favorable position. Ah well, you live and you learn!
@philipgarcia5511
@philipgarcia5511 Ай бұрын
Congratulations
@Phoester
@Phoester Ай бұрын
Dude keep commenting those YCS. Your view of the game and the fact that you play competitive was so on point with your input that even Jerome was surprised at some of them. Keep at it my man. Doing great stuff out there.
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
Appreciate it man
@darkolos5836
@darkolos5836 Ай бұрын
I think if I ever go to a big event I will just tell everyone to read my cards. I think thats the best way to deal with it.
@warrenBbonner
@warrenBbonner Ай бұрын
Yea never explain what the card does give it to them to read let them misrepresent the game state to themselves
@joshuawenninger9346
@joshuawenninger9346 Ай бұрын
That, or you can read the whole card every time the opponent asks instead of just part of it.
@banish6draw2
@banish6draw2 Ай бұрын
I hate bringing lesser known decks to bigger events because people take forever to read and you're fighting against a timer. But there's not really another way, yeah.
@imnotacat5299
@imnotacat5299 Ай бұрын
​​​@@joshuawenninger9346 It's not anyone else's job to educate you on the cards. Maybe when people have some form of disability, sure. But you are a grown adult with two eyes and you are the one with a lack of information about the game state, pick it up and read it yourself. Always hand it to your opponent and let them get those brain cells moving. If they screw themselves, that's on them at that point.
@imnotacat5299
@imnotacat5299 Ай бұрын
​@@joshuawenninger9346 Whoever doesn't know what a card does should be the one to read it. You are an adult with two eyes.
@ryanhall5360
@ryanhall5360 Ай бұрын
If I'm at a Tier 2 or above event, and my opponent asks me to explain a card, I'm just handing them the card for them to read. I'm not obligated to provide an in-depth MLA cited essay on my entire deck, you're free to read my cards as much as you want.
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
If they are reading the card, many things can occur, if they have questions for clarification you have to answer honestly, but you don’t answer HYPOTHETICALS. Or anything that we deem as coaching. just as judges wouldn’t answer those.
@ryanhall5360
@ryanhall5360 Ай бұрын
@@MSTTV Ofc ofc, I just encounter scenarios a lot of the time where an opponent will go "does anything in your GY do anything?" and either I have to tell them the individual eff of every card in my GY or I just tell them they are free to read the cards in my GY. Especially when I've got 20+ cards in GY, it's just not really my responsibility to babysit my opponent's inability to read cards
@imnotacat5299
@imnotacat5299 Ай бұрын
​​​@@ryanhall5360 if you have cards that activate in the GY, you just say 'yes' and hand them the cards that do something in your GY so they can read the cards themselves. You don't have to read the cards for them, but you do have to tell them "yes, these cards have effects in GY" But you can't just make them read every single card in your GY or refuse to say anything at all like a 5 year old. That is genuinely a misrepresentation of the game state and you can definitely have a judge called on you for refusing to give information on something that is public knowledge.
@38YubelMaster1
@38YubelMaster1 Ай бұрын
I've had someone do this to me where he tried to destroy my Dingirsu with 1 material with Access Code Talker's pop effect. And I asked "can I use Ding's effect to prevent my destruction?" Knowing that Access Code can't be responded to. His response to my question was "You cannot activate effects in response to Access Code Talker" which is true of course, so because of this I let Ding get destroyed. But then immediately after some guy next to me said that I can use Ding's eff to prevent it's destruction, and I was like "yeah I thought so". But then my opponent said "It's too late you've sent Ding to grave already" even though it was just a couple of seconds after and I was kinda hovering it over the grave anyway. So yeah it ended up being a long argument cos this was just a locals and we didn't have a judge. I felt like he was misrepresenting the game state. He was also saying stuff like "you're not allowed coaching and you're only arguing this cos the guy next to you coached you" and that he isn't misrepresenting the game state cos that is what Access Code talker does. So basically we both knew that Ding can protect itself, I couldn't remember the exact reason why but I just felt like it could which is why I asked the question in the first place to my opponent. Turns out Ding is not an activated effect and just applies on resolution instead of getting destroyed. He also knew this but answered my question in a way that would intentionally mislead me by only repeating the clause on Access Code and not relating it to Dingirsu. Is my opponent in the wrong here? Or is this on me?
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
Your question should be: "Does Dingirsu activate to protect?" He can say he doesn't know, at which point you can call a judge. As you are not asking for coaching but the ability to properly resolve and NOT making an illegal move. If he knows the answer to this, he should answer it as its a GAME STATE PUBLIC knowledge item. When it doubt just try it. No judge anyways just take the PE. IF he yells at you saying you can't and then the person next to you says you can then he IS misrepresenting the game state and is straight up cheating. That guy sounds like he really needed that win like so desperate that he's losing his own self respect. Did he misrepresent the game state? I would say so, he specifically chose to answer the question in a way that doesn't actually answer your question and lead to you believing that you couldn't respond properly. The person next to you should have only said: Dingirsu is continuous effect. That isn't coaching that is public knowledge. Saying you CAN use dingirsu to protect is technically coaching. If the opponent knew, he also doesn't need to answer question that would result in him coaching you. He could just respond "Don't ask me questions to coach you how to play" So your opponent is in the wrong, but your question was also asking for coaching.
@38YubelMaster1
@38YubelMaster1 Ай бұрын
@@MSTTV I see. Very interesting. So I gotta be careful how I ask my questions. I think the wording I used was "Can I use Dingirsu in response" but I'm not sure exactly . I'm pretty sure in his mind he knew what he was doing. He probably thought that replying to my question by saying Access Code's non response clause isn't technically misrepresenting the game state because it's not a false statement. But I can't remember if he said "I can't tell you what happens" before or after we started arguing. Cos he defiantly said that after when talking about no coaching, but he might have said that before and then followed it up with "AC can't respond" to try and distract me from that. In which case it worked into gaslighting me to think that I can't. Either way I ended up letting him have it but still felt like I just got cheated. But yeah I'll use that advice to just ask does X do this instead of Can I do this. In that situation I should have just followed my gut and attempted to use Dingirsu anyway before asking the question, just like you said. Then either I'm wrong, it's an illegal move and we just reverse the game state, or I'm right and things go my way. So yeah thanks for clearing that up for me.
@ashleymaple16
@ashleymaple16 Ай бұрын
Very interesting and helpful ruling’s thanks Tom
@InfernitBlu88
@InfernitBlu88 Ай бұрын
So this question has come up in labyrnth group chat Can you special summon enigmaster packbit from the s/t zone with its effect if it hasnt been summoned properly?
@JKaiser994
@JKaiser994 Ай бұрын
What's the music in the background it sounds cool Also, thanks for being informative as always. It helped me become a judge for my locals and be head judge at a small-scale ots tournament
@JohnMcVey-kf5pz
@JohnMcVey-kf5pz Ай бұрын
Hey Tom, ruling question: if I use Full Armor Xyz to summon Ty-Phon, would his prevention of me summoning monsters after still become in effect? I'm just curious since im using something other than his own effect to summon him. Thanks!
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
No. you would only lock yourself if you use his specific summoning condition.
@JohnMcVey-kf5pz
@JohnMcVey-kf5pz Ай бұрын
Does that also apply if they had summoned twice from Extra Deck, but I used Full Armor instead of hard making him? That was the specific interaction I had, and I just want to be certain.
@vparsa87
@vparsa87 Ай бұрын
I think this question relates to this scenario. If a monster is gaining an effect from another card (for example synchro monsters made with Yang zing non tuners), does that have to be explained to them when asked “what does this card do” or if I pass the card for them to read?
@PureDragonDecks
@PureDragonDecks Ай бұрын
Im really curious on the packbit rulings and can it summon its self after not being properly summon. Since its field to field. You and jerome were talking about it on stream during the top 8 labyrinth match.
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
I WAS RIGHT!! lol public areas must be SS properly first!
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
Meklord emp vs starlightroad stardust
@PureDragonDecks
@PureDragonDecks Ай бұрын
@MSTTV yea that seemed to busted to be true
@futuramarox789
@futuramarox789 Ай бұрын
Hey dude, love your content, it's super informative. I wanted to ask you a follow up question about terminology regarding what you said about asking specific questions - If the Tenpai player had asked "Will that Fenrir effect resolve?" and the Kashtira player said "Yes", would they be lying or conveying false information? To my understanding, it would resolve negated, but still resolve, right? They'd need to ask "Will that Fenrir effect resolve successfully?" for the specific answer to not be misleading? Is it the Fenrir's controller's job as an opponent to correct them? How should they respond there? Follow up question - is it possible to appeal these kinds of judge calls? Let's say the situation above occurred, and the Fenrir's controller responded "Yes" to the question "Will that Fenrir effect resolve?" and a judge is called over and (correctly or otherwise) determines that the Fenrir controller was intentionally misrepresenting the game-state, is the player allowed to appeal that ruling and get another opinion from a head judge? And what about the reverse - if the Fenrir player is judged to have accurately represented the gamestate, is the Tenpai player allowed to call for an appeal there? Thanks
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
Logan can say, "Yes" but he should be careful on how he says it. Will it resolve ,"It will resolve negated" Just saying Yes could be misleading. If Fenrir controller says Yes, and the turn players says then it will banish during res... the fenrir player at this point can say possibly. (because the chain isn't complete, as a book of moon would result in a card being banished), I mean the simpler question is "Is that fenrir negated"... thats a public game state item.
@futuramarox789
@futuramarox789 Ай бұрын
@MSTTV thank you
@rangeless
@rangeless Ай бұрын
Should Konami implement more keywords like in Hearthstone and Magic or do you prefer complex and unique effects for each individual card?
@GeorgeT_Link
@GeorgeT_Link Ай бұрын
Question: Can I ask my opponent to tell me after he pass his turn to me, what effects does he have that are on the field or in grave? Or he is not obliged to do so and I am the one that should read his cards. Especially in long combo strategies that use plenty of resources! Thank you!
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
If he doesn’t want to answer you, he will say he has them and you should read his cards. It’s easier for you to ask does he have any quick effects or trigger interaction in a public area, and they can answer yes or no.
@brendanguymer3885
@brendanguymer3885 Ай бұрын
I’m new to competitive yugioh. If I ask my opponent what a card does, what is the standard? Are they obligated to tell me? Am I obligated to read it?
@StrelitziaVA
@StrelitziaVA Ай бұрын
It was clear she didn't intend to misrepresent the game state in my opinion. I do think it was a mistake (obviously) to not clarify must attack yubel monsters, but the judges ultimately walked it back to the MP1 and both players were fine with it and she apologized.
@michaelfilipowski1986
@michaelfilipowski1986 Ай бұрын
Tom so if I was unfamiliar with an entire archetype like melodious would I get in trouble for reading each activated melodious card if there was multiple?
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
Be reasonable, slow play is still a thing
@michaelfilipowski1986
@michaelfilipowski1986 Ай бұрын
@@MSTTV I genuinely wasn’t trolling reading 3-4 cards in a turn would be considered slow play when i’m just trying to keep up with what’s attempting to resolve?
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
@@michaelfilipowski1986 if you need to constantly re-read a card it would be considered slow play. BECAUSE its not intentional you just kept forgetting and causing time to burn
@michaelfilipowski1986
@michaelfilipowski1986 Ай бұрын
@@MSTTV not re-read but read different cards upon intial activation
@babrad
@babrad Ай бұрын
I laughed about the "Fenrir Bident" issue, when Trident Dragion popping the field spell despite being summoned on CL2 (miss the timing) went completely unnoticed.
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
That's actually the 2nd thing... We all missed that one. CL2 Fadra = not trident effect ont the when you can. thats for tomorrows video
@babrad
@babrad Ай бұрын
@@MSTTV My other comment got axed by yt so to sum up: @9:19:05 there was another confirmation by Yubel player omitting the "attack Yubel monster" when asked by the Melodious player. So while I agree with what you said about staying in BP since it was legal, wouldn't that give the Yubel player a UC - Cheating instead? According to strict tournament policy. I believe this "misrepresenting" was unintentional and such punishing would be very harsh, but there's no way to prove it. That's why I avoid policy issues and love card rulings/disputes focusing on them instead. I wouldn't want my assumption to ruin a player's day, meanwhile rulings are almost absolute. That decision was the perfect middle ground, despite going completely against the rules.
@Majoraspersona
@Majoraspersona Ай бұрын
Instructions unclear. I activate Pot of Greed
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
What do?
@Majoraspersona
@Majoraspersona Ай бұрын
@@MSTTV uhhhh idk. The only version I have is in Portuguese
@ProfessorOAK826
@ProfessorOAK826 Ай бұрын
@@MSTTV make your opponent banish 20 cards from the top of their deck facedown; draw 2 cards :D
@tsvetomirsheev3882
@tsvetomirsheev3882 Ай бұрын
Yugioh and controvercy, those things go together like peanut butter and jelly
@nutlow82
@nutlow82 Ай бұрын
Hey I’m also dyslexic what happen if I have to read someone’s card and they will not explain the card to you?
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
call a judge.
@dommusilli3975
@dommusilli3975 Ай бұрын
Hey Tombox, one suggestion I would make for your sleeves is to make them slightly longer on the next run. 89mm is typically perfect length but the cards tend to work their way to the top of the sleeve throughout play. Imo, 92mm would solve the problem. Otherwise, I went undefeated in side events with them on Day 2!
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
92mm is something I’ve tested a batch on. The card will never sit evenly. I have a full test batch of 91mm I will never sell to the public because it has too much slack. Caused folded corners. And the wavy ripple top effect which makes them unsuitable for tournament play. I ain’t here to sell a product that would get a MC minor. On the occasional pack, you get one that pushes up. The reason why they ride up is actually air and physics. The sleeves are tight fitted. In the odd case, I push a dummy card all the way down to relieve the pressure and it will settle after resleeve. OR I just leave a card in there long enough.
@dommusilli3975
@dommusilli3975 Ай бұрын
@@MSTTV I do only have a handful of matches on them so I'm sure they still have to break in a little more to settle..they do look sharp though.
@PartyMarty321
@PartyMarty321 Ай бұрын
⁠@@dommusilli3975I’ve been using those sleeves and with regular play they will always somewhat slide. It just comes with playing the game.
@LemonCookies
@LemonCookies Ай бұрын
​@@dommusilli3975After sleeving the deck. Store it in a binder til youre ready to use them. This should help push the air out.
@rom.3.183
@rom.3.183 Ай бұрын
So, you activate the lotus effect even tho it's negated?
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
you can attempt to use it even if it is negated, but it will resolve negated if it was negated via imperm/veiler.
@ColtonH1738
@ColtonH1738 Ай бұрын
this exact thing happened to me at locals last friday against yubel now i'm always gonna read every single card even if they explain it
@taylorsnow8044
@taylorsnow8044 Ай бұрын
I need a judge ruling for a Mikanko/Yubel interaction: If I attack into a Yubel Monster while the opponent controls Nightmare Pain with a Mikanko monster while it is equipped, who takes the battle damage?
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
I can’t remember, but I’m sure the judges answered this before on FB
@ultimo545
@ultimo545 Ай бұрын
Redirecting damage can't happen twice, so if you attack with a 0atk mikanko to say a 1k atk yubel with ace of fools,they take the damage, not you, but if they attack, you take the damage. It goes by categories in order and both nightmare pain and mikanko are on #3 while negated yubel is #6. Again redirecting battle damage only happens once so it depends who attacks who in this case.
@babrad
@babrad Ай бұрын
Redirection of damage doesn't bounce back and forth. Assumming Mikanko has 1000 ATK and it battles a Yubel, the Mikanko player wouldn't take damage if no other effects are in play, you would. At this time, Pain kicks in and the opponent takes the damage, then the Mikanko effect DOES NOT kick in to send it back. For a ruling on this, you can check "Daigusto Sphreez" and "Ohime the Manifested Mikanko", but the TLDR is "the player that would inflict damage normally if those 2 effects weren't involved is the one to actually take the damage"
@taylorsnow8044
@taylorsnow8044 Ай бұрын
@@ultimo545 Thank you for your help.
@taylorsnow8044
@taylorsnow8044 Ай бұрын
@@babrad Thank you for your help.
@YGOandMasterDuel
@YGOandMasterDuel Ай бұрын
Indianapolis YCS was a good tournament IMOP!!
@polodoskyz
@polodoskyz Ай бұрын
8:40 can you refuse to say what the card does and make him read?
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
Actuallyn yes, just say I don’t want to be wrong, here read it
@polodoskyz
@polodoskyz Ай бұрын
Thank you !!
@magicalscientist192
@magicalscientist192 Ай бұрын
This raises a question. At my locals, there’s a guy that will often ask “Any quick effects?” referring to my monsters once I’m done with my turn. And then follows up with “what do they do?” Am I obligated to reveal this information? Am I obligated to reveal any negates or interruptions my monsters provide? Is him asking that question legal because it’s vague? It feels like I’m giving him the advantage by answering the question
@GeorgeT_Link
@GeorgeT_Link Ай бұрын
I made exactly the same question, let's wait for the answer!!
@davidjimenez3458
@davidjimenez3458 Ай бұрын
For experience the first question would be made "justified" if he have a quick effect to activate and if you are turn player you have priority to any activation from card or effect or decide to change phase (something your opponent must be agree too before the change) so he can try to activate any quick effect it can you must pass the priority to them. What a card do must be clarified if somebody ask, you can give them the card to read or explain what the card do honestly just when the card is public. You aren't obligated to reveal what you have set after it's set or in unrevealed in hand. It's responsability of each player read the cards when they are public (face-up in field, extra deck, hand (revealed) or banished or in graveyard), but when you add a card o set it directly the information can be consulted in that moment, after that isn't more public information and only who possess the card can consult the information (read the card).
@robertscholz2814
@robertscholz2814 Ай бұрын
As long as the opponent can name the card you are required to answer truthfully. You can even ask a judge about stats, effects etc. and they will tell you.
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
If it’s written on the card: Any quick effects? - you should answer (that’s public info) What do they do? - you should answer to save time (public info) How you are going to use them - (do not answer, that’s coaching) You can let them read your cards, yeah just note that trades off a lot of time. Do not do this: And if your intention was to waste time like that earth Machine guy with a full German deck with intent to waste time and win in time. He was DQed and suspended.
@magicalscientist192
@magicalscientist192 Ай бұрын
@@MSTTV so me just saying “it’s a monster negate” should be fine if he asks then. Ok cool. I just wanted to be sure I wasn’t willingly giving up information I didn’t have to. Thanks!
@quinkelly1441
@quinkelly1441 Ай бұрын
Sell your snake eye now before it gets reprinted to the ground.
@Kiladpa
@Kiladpa Ай бұрын
how bout that bonfire in round 7 activated in the imperm column then won, where both players and the judge missed it 😭
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
Happens, let judges get exp, get better
@Saens406
@Saens406 Ай бұрын
just read the card. If I have to explain my card effect, i'll only tell the effect that im activating and i might summarize it anyway.
@cyber5787
@cyber5787 Ай бұрын
The Kash thing is simply like this: A: If I press this button, your phone will explode in 5 seconds, but you can disable it if you have the tools. B: Successfully disconnect the button from the phone A: "Press the button" B: Immediately throw phone away
@jjefferyh
@jjefferyh Ай бұрын
Wheres the emergency banlist konami rep
@rayray5244
@rayray5244 Ай бұрын
That why I always Read cards I don't know. Then when my opponent asked me what my cards do. I usually tell them you can read it.
@Geo-ok1nw
@Geo-ok1nw Ай бұрын
“I lost due to time because My opponent had to read all my cards, so annoying “
@babrad
@babrad Ай бұрын
@@Geo-ok1nw "I got DQ'ed for saying Faris is like Divine Temple because I forgot to mention it places as a trap so Increase is a quick effect and doesn't care about N38"
@dherosoen
@dherosoen 5 күн бұрын
The game is too complicated. These mistakes happen everywhere all the time.
@BeanMagoon
@BeanMagoon Ай бұрын
weird, I haven't seen many get upset about this interaction. but I guess I'm not in the trenches of zodiac duelist, so lol
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
Twitch chat army
@EcaillesDeLune
@EcaillesDeLune Ай бұрын
I really dislike this stance of judges spoon-feeding bad players. Just read your opponents' cards, the card was active for a whole turn and it had resolved its active effect, even if your opponent is willing to explain what it does, you still have to read it to make sure you're getting it right. EVEN THEN, Yubel isn't a fun tier 3 deck, if you're attending a tier 1 event you should be prepared for certain decks.
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
judges can only answer game state related questions and legality of resolution to prevent illegal game states from occurring, Could that situation have been handled better. Yes.
@brianhinojosa5573
@brianhinojosa5573 Ай бұрын
If anyone ever asks what my cards do I just give them the card to read. Not going to waste time reading and explaining them what a card does. That way they don’t hit me with the “well you told me…”
@benkoehn8402
@benkoehn8402 Ай бұрын
Wastes more time making them read it Just explain it simply and properly You’re probably the first person to shark someone is they misread it
@pikachufrankie
@pikachufrankie Ай бұрын
It’s up to both players to make sure the game state is correct.
@worthywill9294
@worthywill9294 Ай бұрын
True. But blatant cheating deserves to be called out. *(not related to any potential current situation, just in general)*
@doctor9551
@doctor9551 Ай бұрын
So can i count my opponents summons out loud*
@babrad
@babrad Ай бұрын
Ideally you should ask about how many summons are performed during this turn. Counting down with your eyebrow raised ready to say "Can you smeeeeeeelllllll what the Rock is cooking" while you have a card in your hand ready to be slapped on the field for it to be a bluff is a quick way into a warning (at the very least).
@Tobias_10
@Tobias_10 Ай бұрын
Going forward players who dont read cards should be held to the sane level of accountability as players who don't properly explain their cards
@KyleThuzad
@KyleThuzad Ай бұрын
Ycs judges are cosmetic 99.9% of the time
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
Not true. Viewers only only fault the judges when they make a mistake and only see the mistake, when they upkeep the game state no one bats an eye. I see it from my casters chair and they do a good job! Sure not everything is caught
@babrad
@babrad Ай бұрын
I had the bad luck to help in a feature match so I understand what you mean. The way features are set, one table judge cannot keep up with the gamestate, unlike Twitch chat that has thousands reading those cards (and usually pointing things out instead of chatting). I believe there should be at least 2 people there, 1 managing everything but the gamestate (for example cards for stream highlights, communication etc) while the other is focused exclusively on the legality of the plays.
@gubigubigubigubi
@gubigubigubigubi Ай бұрын
Not disclosing the full effect seems scummy to me for sure. Even it wasn't specifically asked for. Specially for a deck like this that relies on that effect to win the game so its going to come up pretty much every single match. The fact we are even debating means pretty much everyone knows its scummy as well. The whole "well technically he didn't ask that" is just justification for bad sportsmanship. Not reading the full card is on him but this is a game where if we stop and read every single card no match would finish. There needs to be a high level of trust between players in order to make yu gi oh function as a physical card game. There is too much to read and comprehend for any 1 player to ever understand without years and years of playing the game and constantly keeping up to date with ruilings and new cards. Like I play voiceless. When someone asks me "Is that the spell that prevents targeting? I almost always add "Yes and you have to attack a ritual monster". TL;DR Do you want to live in a world where you have to hand your opponent every single card you activate and have on field for them to read over. Or do you want to just live in a world where you can trust each other and simply ask what cards do. Because it really comes down to that. Because when I don't trust the other player I read word for word every single card they activate and if the card looks old and might have an errata I ask for the translation/errata updated text that we now have to look up in the database. Game 1 is taking bare minimum 45 minutes when I read every single card you try to resolve.
@JoJosDankAdventures
@JoJosDankAdventures Ай бұрын
This is literally one of the few positive and logical commens in this cesspool. If you're a new player or a returning one, that understands interactions and chains decently, if you get SUS vibes from someone and ask to read every card it's SLOW PLAY and ur just auto DQ'd and people fucking hate you for it as well instead of thinking that explaining your cards to someone a new player EHEM I mean a bad player is coddling. Like for instance, the way some people treat people who are trying to transition into TGC from MD is so condescending at times. Some mfers will genuinely try to screw you over and withhold information on TGC only stuff purely for the chance to win an extra pack. Some locals are so competitive that they put off new players so badly because it's so 50-50 if you are gonna get a decent human being across the table or a teenage tryhard trying to win packs.
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
I personally wouldnt disclose any more information than necessary to keep the pace of the game moving. Ask the correct questions to get the correct answers. Even your explanation isn't fully correct like "You have to attack a ritual monster" makes it sound like you HAVE TO attack a ritual. If someone declare an attack crashing into your ritual and they argue its because you said " You have to attack a ritual" you get into the same scenario. Clarity yes is key. Whatever you convey as additional info should also be held accountable. Better phrasing would be for Voiceless Barrier: "If you declare an attack, it has to target a Ritual Monster when Lo and a Light Ritual are on field" This is almost the same as Jenni's scenario. Just read, their cards if you have doubts and play test and practice to get familiar so you don't get lost in this world of odd effects.
@JoJosDankAdventures
@JoJosDankAdventures Ай бұрын
@@MSTTV The prize support for this game is ass, people having to practice and play test so much to go to a tourney and judges not even explain an interaction properly in fear of someone yelling coaching is absolutely toxic. There's a reason a lot of pro players are moving to OP, Lorcana and Pokemon and stuff like this is part of it.
@gubigubigubigubi
@gubigubigubigubi Ай бұрын
@@MSTTV In my explanation in my comment its shorter than what I normally explain I was just using that as an example. Because when someone asks about skull guardian I dont just say "Its an omni negate" I explain that more fully as well as quickly as I can. If they don't ask at all I assume they know. I'd rather explain it correctly and fully to someone instead of having what happened on the live stream where the judges get involved and you are rewinding the game state and causing all kinds of problems. And then you have to defend yourself against people saying you did or didn't cheat or you are or are not scummy. At the end of the day I do agree it is the persons fault for asking the wrong question and not reading the card. Always just handing your opponent the card every single time though just really slows down an already extremely slow card game.
@Gonalex
@Gonalex Ай бұрын
This whole public info thing is absolutely assenine and scummy. If you public info on a deck I barely have played against at my locals and then if I ask to read your every card it's slow play and I get DQ'd. In a perfect world where ygo players aren't dysfunctional man babies that care more about winning an extra pack than helping another player play the game and learn maybe we would actually have some new players. The fact that you treat strangers at tournaments as just hurdles and forget they are another human being trying to have fun is insane. Isn't this the whole to point hobbies? Having fun and meeting new like-minded individuals? Anyway, to finish this off, I feel you lost the ball with this one in the comments. If you are advising people to read cards then tell others who say what if I ask to read them all? You go "be reasonable it's slow play" then you aren't making sense. If you don't know an archetype because almost everyone at your locals plays tenpai now then what are you supposed to do? Tough shit? Read fast as hell because your opponent is a mute and just hands you every card? This isn't promoting a healthy or fun way to play the game. Explain your deck to your opponent fully and just be kind and polite to decline to answer hypotheticals until after the game is done.
@JoJosDankAdventures
@JoJosDankAdventures Ай бұрын
This whole "hypothetical" thing is kind of vague though. If I'm genuinely asking on how an interaction works between your cards and mine because I have literally played against ur archetype twice and you say *public info* when you are witholding information to some degree. I'm not asking how a complex chain works, I'm asking if I can negate or target your monster in this current play state or in the battle phase which mind you IS public information but if I have to read everything then take 3-5 minutes to process this game that equates to nuclear physics when it comes to how complicated it is well then FUCK ME I'm slow playing I GUESS?!?? This doesn't really help new players have the courage to attend regionals if you ask me and it quite bad for the game. Toxic even. Minor interactions are considered "coaching now". You know what's coaching?? Asking what to side against him/her, not clarification on the game state, ffs man...
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
What can a judge answer? Card effects written on a card, public knowledge info, can answer if the card is legal to activate. Can answer if the card resolution would be legal but only based on the current action.
@FNigslol
@FNigslol 28 күн бұрын
This video literally could have been 42 seconds. So greedy
@fernandogomez3812
@fernandogomez3812 Ай бұрын
Player like should be banned doesn’t matter if he could activate or not he did play with his opponent mind knowing its negate it so that for me its a attempt to fraud the game
@ZachButler92
@ZachButler92 Ай бұрын
So because he did a legal action that he’s allowed to do within game mechanics, he should be suspended? That makes zero sense. He didn’t misrepresent the game at all, he legally activated an effect, which the cards allow. That isn’t misrepresentation of the game state at all.
@MSTTV
@MSTTV Ай бұрын
No, disagree with that completely! Action was legal. Master Duel lets you do it. It rewards the player with a better memory. Case 1: You imperm and create an imperm column. You forgot that. I activate a spell in that column, and you negate it with a hope harbinger. It was a misplay. Case 2: So if you used crossout designator on Ash blossom, because I cosmiced forced it. Then later, And I activate my Ash later on your cards and baited a negate from your monster or called by. Whether I knew it or not, it is LEGAL and I can adapt it into my strategy to make a misplay on my opponent side.
@ZachButler92
@ZachButler92 Ай бұрын
@@MSTTV agreed 100%
@babrad
@babrad Ай бұрын
Reminds me of players using Called By the GY on a handtrap, then the following turn using said handtrap themselves. Why would your opponent have to tell you it's not going to work and allow you to keep that card? Neither the opponent nor judges are there to coach, they are only responsible for the legality of plays.
@michaelkhalfani9177
@michaelkhalfani9177 Ай бұрын
Long story short. Let your opponent read your cards. Read your opponents cards. Pay attention to the game.
@alextrotter5500
@alextrotter5500 Ай бұрын
So basically half the skill of he current yugioh format is language arts? So this is a teir 0 format .. a bully format
@totalpartykill999
@totalpartykill999 Ай бұрын
this is the exact reason players bring rogue decks to the table. to purposely confuse their opponent and have unfamiliar cards.
@iORAVLA
@iORAVLA Ай бұрын
Bro lost to heroes and is salty about it 😂
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