Musgrave 9mm: A Gun for the Black Market

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5 жыл бұрын

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In the brief couple of years between the election of a new black-majority government in South Africa in 1994 and the dissolution of the Musgrave company, it attempted to produce a new 9mm pistol to sell to the burgeoning market of black South African citizens buying handguns. Ownership of pistols by black citizens had been legal under apartheid, but was (not surprisingly) quite uncommon - this began to change in 1994. The most popular pistol at the time was the Norinco 213 Tokarev in 9x19mm, which was available in large numbers and at very low cost.
To compete against this, Musgrave designed a simple blowback, polymer framed pistol chambered for 9x19mm using Beretta 92 magazines (which Musgrave had a large supply of, being the license Beretta distributor in the country). The gun was extremely simple, held together with a handful of screws and using a single action only hammer-fired mechanism. It was a commercial flop, however - unable to match the quality and price combination of the Tokarev and only about 500 were made in 1995 and 1996.
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@thecynic75 5 жыл бұрын

Ian is probably the only man on KZfaq who can clickbait you and still end up pleasing you intellectually.

@jacobriddle7230 5 жыл бұрын

But it is technically not click bait

@jocaleb0236 5 жыл бұрын

I know another channel that uses clickbait but actual does what’s in the clickbait until they do some really dumb math and conclude they’re done It’s officialduckstudios lol

@Psiberzerker 5 жыл бұрын

LindyBeige!

@Lazarus7000 5 жыл бұрын

This one surprised the shit out of me inasmuch as it's exactly what it says on the tin: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aMyagNOfnLCnemQ.html and you click on it half expecting it to be footage from a video game and instead there's a real man who moves like a character from a video game.

@C0LDW4RK1D 5 жыл бұрын

Yes, I love it when Ian pleases me.

@crackedConstant 5 жыл бұрын

"Black market".. Oh Ian.

@invictusprima4437 5 жыл бұрын

South Africa the black market of the black market

@thegoldencaulk2742 5 жыл бұрын

We call it the "Urban Market" now

@nejinaji 5 жыл бұрын

It's African American market you degenerates

@madmarauder9925 5 жыл бұрын

@@nejinaji not in south Africa

@Qardo 5 жыл бұрын

@@nejinaji Gun was sold in South Africa....learn your Geography....

@birdkiller776 5 жыл бұрын

I love that; after Ian said it came in "package" deal," I thought to myself "package deal including what? The gun, a safe, and a bag of concrete?" And that's literally what it was. Genuinely a super cool story I think.

@esper6119 5 жыл бұрын

Freedom as Heck

@dominicksmeech2994 5 жыл бұрын

It would be kinda nice for a package deal like that to be available in America for new shooters. You get a reasonable handgun, a small wear resistant case, and maybe a small firearmes saftey booklet.

@ToastyMozart 5 жыл бұрын

@@dominicksmeech2994 One would hope someone gets more than a small pamphlet's worth of safety information before taking ownership of a firearm. Tis a bit like a pilot's safety training consisting of that emergency guidelines card airliners keep in the seat pockets.

@dominicksmeech2994 5 жыл бұрын

@@ToastyMozart Well yes, i understand that it wouldn't be a fix for good training, but it would just be a reminder of the basics. Besides, it sould include training like the deal in the video.

@krisrhebergen 5 жыл бұрын

@@dominicksmeech2994 well hi point does sell a package similar to this.

@Thefifthloko 5 жыл бұрын

"A cheap gun" Huh, how cheap could it be? *disassembles gun* Wooooow

@paulrutherford3580 4 жыл бұрын

Baaaahaaaa cheep piece o crap ! The lower is molded in two pieces and screwed togather! Say what????lol

@Firstname137 4 жыл бұрын

Ever seen a Clarke Special. The barrel in those has a barrel inside..I imagine that it was cheaper to buy a barrel pre fab and stick them in there.

@Nate_the_Nobody 4 жыл бұрын

I mean, it looks better than a hi-point

@Edeinawc 4 жыл бұрын

@Mr Papagiorgio Did you watch the video? It wasn't meant to be illegal at all.

@baconator1377 4 жыл бұрын

"How cheap can it be?" *dissassembly* "Oh..."

@Roshake77 5 жыл бұрын

Is this title clickbait? *Well yes, but actually no*

@theoneand0nly874 4 жыл бұрын

@U Tubred there technically brown people so its the brown market

@krewaskysalter3872 4 жыл бұрын

What if he was a g nd said a new market opened up and numbers were going for the company so they manufactured a cheap pistol to get more out . And thats the truth though

@jer1014t2th 4 жыл бұрын

"Gun for the Black Market" *....YOU LIED TO ME.*

@nopnopnopnopnopnopnop 4 жыл бұрын

It absolutely is clickbait.

@Hewitt_himself 4 жыл бұрын

I clicked this to make the joke the other way as South Africa... it backfired, so maybe not clickbait

@Leander_ 5 жыл бұрын

2:42 That "anyway" is basically Ian saying "let's not go into the issue of apartheid in a twelve minute video about guns.."

@jackroutledge352 4 жыл бұрын

Babooshka00 I actually respect the fact that manages so consistently not to get into politics on this channel. That’s a good idea when you’re talking about an issue as sensitive as firearms, and a doubly good idea when it’s racism and firearms. Both are a can of 🐛

@imadrifter 4 жыл бұрын

@@jackroutledge352 a can of Caterpillars?

@ericsmith5919 4 жыл бұрын

@@imadrifter Can of centipedes

@cl0vvntiem 4 жыл бұрын

that "anyway" in written format would have a MASSIVE footnote

@Sip_Dhit 4 жыл бұрын

@@imadrifter yes,

@andyrichter2714 5 жыл бұрын

Hard to believe there’s a new manufacture gun meant to be cheaper than a surplus Chinese tokrev. Those things are nearly cheaper than scrap steel.

@jhoughjr1 5 жыл бұрын

I liked my Tokarev

@matthewpham9525 5 жыл бұрын

Oh, the wonders of not paying your child workers

@nindger4270 5 жыл бұрын

@Lassi Kinnunen certainly not these days, thanks to the one-child-policy the Chinese population is aging so rapidly that they are bringing in foreign labourers themselves because there's not enough young people to do the unskilled labour in the factories; not to mention wages have doubled or even tripled in a decade or two.

@molodoy.. 5 жыл бұрын

Ahahahah in 90s russian gangsters very liled those because they were cheap and some of them lacked markings and they just throw them away after few shots

@gregoryfilin8040 5 жыл бұрын

@@molodoy.. yep. My father was in the Soviet police. He told me you could buy one for about $35 USD, and maybe get 8 shots off, and then toss it in the trash.

@GreenblookUK1 3 жыл бұрын

At exactly this time, a friend of mine worked in a gun shop in central Johannesburg and they were brining in hundreds of Tokarevs in from Russia every month. Sold for a ridiculously low price with holster, 2 mags and a handful of rounds.

@markjones2859 2 ай бұрын

I bought the Same package here 🇨🇦 . I paid $399 Canadian. I love it. Powerful little cartridge. 😊

@bwhog 2 жыл бұрын

I love the concept. "Let's see how cheap we can make a gun that actually works the way its supposed to." It actually ended up having its own visual appeal. Not saying I'd be the first to buy it but it was a good attempt at their goal.

@juanon_industries7256 Жыл бұрын

If only the nambu creators knew💀

@1337penguinman 3 ай бұрын

I love the aesthetic of South African firearms. Sort of the anti HK.

@denverabrahams3535 3 жыл бұрын

To those who don't know, it is literally called "The Black Market" here in 🇿🇦. And not in a derogatory manner. The title of this video is spot on.

@Redmenace96 3 жыл бұрын

Factual, but hard to swallow. "Blacks want cheap guns" has many implied meanings. All over the world.

@denverabrahams3535 3 жыл бұрын

@@Redmenace96 yes, you're right, it has. But when the market was opened up to everyone to purchase a firearm, the majority of black people (me included) in South Africa simply could not afford one. Our economic disadvantage at that particular time in our history, coupled with our desire to own firearms, created what seemed to be a very lucrative business opportunity for the capitalistically inclined. They quickly realized that "Blacks want[ed] cheap guns" and responded accordingly.

@Redmenace96 3 жыл бұрын

@@denverabrahams3535 I'm feeling you. I have lightly hunted in my life, and owned a firearm for protection for like a year. Now, I am interested in collecting and historical firearms. Go to the range 2x a year. Cheap, mass produced guns are just a non-starter for me. Only me. Speaking personally. It is really nice that you typed a thoughtful and interesting response on YT. Most people are just nutz. As an American, I do believe that owning weapons should be universal. But, I also think it is ok to point out the problems of cheap and easily accessible handguns. I'm ok living in a world where thinking and responsible people deal with those problems. Banning and saying no, is not the answer! SA has at least one thing in common with U.S. You are a young country, and are figuring things out. Nobody has the right to yell at you! ha,ha! Both our countries are 'teenagers'. SA is standing just outside the big curtain , and I believe will be an important and powerful place when Africans step onto the main stage. Please pardon me, if I am too presumptuous.

@hi_im_elli 3 жыл бұрын

@@Redmenace96 I think its bad to have firearms for everyone. The government should have the "Violence Monopoly" and everyone else shouldn't have the power, right or weapons for violence on their own

@Redmenace96 3 жыл бұрын

@@hi_im_elli I feel you. Why do you feel that way? What is the downside of People having weapons? Is State Power the best power, and the only way? Why?

@mkzhero 5 жыл бұрын

"What's your job?" "Oh, i sell stuff for the black market" "WHAT?!" "What? I sell stuff to Africa"

@Davo996 3 ай бұрын

It South Africa selling guns to the world in this case.

@svtirefire 5 жыл бұрын

The way they put screws through the company logo really screams "quality."

@candidmoe8741 5 жыл бұрын

That doesn't affect the gun mechanical operation, and why spend money making it pretty?

@BleedingUranium 5 жыл бұрын

@@candidmoe8741 Why not just stamp it literally anywhere else?

@candidmoe8741 5 жыл бұрын

@@BleedingUranium Because every change costs. You have to spend time designed a new frame, making a new mold, ...

@WJS774 5 жыл бұрын

@@candidmoe8741 Doesn't that imply that they made the mould _before_ they designed the gun?

@calvingreene90 5 жыл бұрын

It screams redesign an cost savings; it might have been a marketing ploy.

@battleborn2002 3 жыл бұрын

I was impressed with the gun laws in SA. I was able to rent a 1911 with a holster and a full magazine at the hotel for about $20.00 a week.

@sartainja Жыл бұрын

Was any ammo included?

@battleborn2002 Жыл бұрын

@@sartainja One full 7 rd mag.

@sartainja Жыл бұрын

@@battleborn2002 Bar-gain.

@nopc9728 Жыл бұрын

How do they know someone wouldn't steal it? Did you have to sign some sort of contract? Then again they have all the renters info.

@-TBH- 8 ай бұрын

@@nopc9728 Weapons are usually dirt-cheap in war-thorn shithole countries.

@Doug_Narby 5 жыл бұрын

Ian, I finally figured out the thing I like the most about your videos. You act like we are as smart and interested as you are. I like to think I am as interested, at least. Thanks for the great work.

@garfe5555 5 жыл бұрын

The mechanical segments are a mindfuck for me but i love the information.

@S3Cs4uN8 5 жыл бұрын

@@garfe5555 I've found the more of these videos I watch the less confusing and more understandable all the engineery parts become. Good old fashioned learning.

@thesturm8686 4 жыл бұрын

He treated us like almost no teacher has ever done in the entire history of teaching

@dscrappygolani7981 4 жыл бұрын

That is an astute observation, sir.

@charles_wipman 5 жыл бұрын

Even being so basic, crude and cheap... it looks good to me; very Distric 9 or Elisium like IMO.

@joshualance6005 5 жыл бұрын

Same here looks like a ruger mark pistol in 9mm kinda

@jaanikaapa6925 5 жыл бұрын

Elysium and District 9 are both films made in SA, the director too (I believe) is from SA too.

@Oldage429 5 жыл бұрын

@@jaanikaapa6925 He is, yeah.

@1tulip 5 жыл бұрын

Mecka Doyle k

@daveweller9579 5 жыл бұрын

I think I have Musgrave love

@socalgn159 5 жыл бұрын

Wondered what a 9mm Ruger Mark series would look like, now I know.

@paulhenry8174 5 жыл бұрын

Me too. Hope ruger makes a target 9mm soon.

@joshualance6005 5 жыл бұрын

Yep except ruger uses a bolt instead if a slide like this firearm

@ThetaReactor 5 жыл бұрын

This is less fiddly to reassemble.

@karlt8233 5 жыл бұрын

I would love a Ruger Mk in 9mm.

@joshualance6005 5 жыл бұрын

@toeff7852 no ruger uses a bolt like a nambu pistol. The Musgrave uses a slide like all postols

@RicusCoetzee 5 жыл бұрын

Musgrave has actually been reborn, a couple of years ago, JJ Weapons based in the town of Ermelo in South Africa acquired the naming rights as well as the patents and left over actions and barrels. They are currently manufacturing hunting rifles, and have even developed their own Mauser-style action which they are still busy field testing.

@kuebby 3 жыл бұрын

I've watched this video like 5 times because the explanation of selling a handgun with a bag of premix cement and a steel poll is just hilarious and awesome all at the same time.

@legionitalia309 5 жыл бұрын

The metal plate embedded in the frame appears to be a heat shield to prevent the heat of the barrel from warping the frame at the contact point. The excess heat may have caused binding with the slide or may have interfered with trigger movement, likely as a direct result of the frame being made as two halves. Great video as usual.

@oldesertguy9616 5 жыл бұрын

I was thinking it might be part of the metal the screws thread into. It might be simpler to have a plate you drill and tap rather than individual bushings inserted into the plastic.

@harryhudson5140 4 жыл бұрын

Maybe its to re-enforce the trigger area to keep from folding the frame in half?

@_ArsNova 2 жыл бұрын

Probably the only KZfaq "bait and switch" that I wasn't mad about.

@lordhumungus8720 2 жыл бұрын

Ben Musgrave was a relative of mine, so it’s always kinda surreal to see videos on his companies weapons.

@ST-zm3lm 5 жыл бұрын

Honestly I think this is a pretty neat idea. With the latest materials and processes this could be a genuinely decent design that gives Hi Point a run for its money in the dirt cheap market.

@macoppy6571 3 жыл бұрын

Instant upgrade by 3d printing the lower! Refine the fire control group, et voila!, a decent, safe pistol. I really like the safety mechanism, chunky 🙂

@Quality_Guru 4 жыл бұрын

An extremely simple firearm with minimal parts, but most importantly what an amazing story that only Ian can truly bring to life. I can just picture someone carrying a bag of cement along with the purchase of this pistol. Not sure what I would enjoy the most, disabling the pistol, shooting it or telling its history. What an amazing pistol for anyone to own!

@moofushu 4 жыл бұрын

I like it for how simple it is. I hope one of the firearms companies takes a shine to this and comes up with their copy of it. Some of us are STILL living in mud huts!

@frikkiecoetzee6198 5 жыл бұрын

Ian. The pistol in case is very rare over her in SA. I have not ever seen one personally and believe me it is not because of a lack of trying. One mistake in your video however. Before the Firearms Control Act of 2000 you could buy a pistol or rifle with no proof of training. This requirement was introduced by the aforementioned act only. In terms of the previous 1969 act, you inly had to convince the police ( Central Firearm Registry) of a need to possess a firearm.

@john-paulsilke893 5 жыл бұрын

Frikkie Coetzee so much disinformation about SA gun laws. Even SA’s are poorly educated on the subject. I’ve been trying to parce out the specifics and figure them out for some time very much like my Canadian gun laws which are also poorly understood.

@Captain_Wet_Beard 5 жыл бұрын

@@john-paulsilke893 The disinformation was intentional, it made it easier to selectively crack down on those the state or police didnt like. The old requirement of convincing the police that it is needed, accomplished similar goals in a more direct way.

@seanrossouw9936 5 жыл бұрын

@@john-paulsilke893 Join Gunsite SA or Gun Owners South Africa if you want more info

@daddydank2665 5 жыл бұрын

See I can tell you’re from Africa since your name has more syllables than a polish city

@ovk-ih1zp 5 жыл бұрын

@joe jitsu They still don't. Why do you think the Dems are still pushing gun & speech control so hard?

@jeffreyplum5259 5 жыл бұрын

The metal plate in the lower unit gives the screws for the barrel something to anchor against. I believe the metal can be seen through the two screw holes. It is the only structural metal built into the lower unit. I guess it helps achor the two lower halves to the barrel anf slide group. It seems very nice gun, as close to the old "Lock, Stock, and Barrel " an auto pistol can be. BTW good luck with Headstamp Publishing. I look forward to window shopping your unique cataqlogue. Headstamp books seem amed above my paygrade. Would be gun designers could really use an " Encyclopedia of Terrible Firearms. " I cannot guess how many books would make up a complete set, You could include a video DVD of range time with them. I say "range time" because shooting them may not, always, work. Your work in always great, even with terrible guns.

@koopa_6ghg257 5 жыл бұрын

Talking about Africa : The poachers guns were quite interesting ! Are we gonna see more of them one day ?

@edwardteach3000 5 жыл бұрын

he did do a couple awhile ago if I remember correctly

@xAlexZifko 4 жыл бұрын

id love to see more homemade guns on this channel, but its also not exactly fitting i realize.

@JenniferinIllinois 5 жыл бұрын

It's a South African Hi-Point but not as ugly. 🤣🤣🤣

@RalphReagan 5 жыл бұрын

Certainly better looking by far

@cleidsonaraujopeixoto163 5 жыл бұрын

Damn, that was exactly what I thought.

@ThetaReactor 5 жыл бұрын

I wonder if it's as reliable.

@billylin5404 5 жыл бұрын

An advantage of this pistol over the Hi-Point is that it uses Beretta 92 magazines.

@jic1 5 жыл бұрын

That steel bolt/slide thingy is definitely more compact than a Hi-Point's zamak slide, but I wonder if it's more expensive to make?

@quentinhoward99 5 жыл бұрын

"The handles are screwed together." Just like the Maverick nerf gun I took apart yesterday.

@WhiteDwarfVR4 4 жыл бұрын

"Takes Beretta 92 magazines". Okay, I want one!

@sebastianlaczewski63 5 жыл бұрын

So glad I find your channel.So many forgotten weapons,some of tham I never heard of.Videos are put well together,informative.

@Omnihil777 5 жыл бұрын

That thing is so simple, and kinda elegenat because of it's simplicity...next month comes my mini-lathe, I'll guess I'll give it a shot (no pun intended & of course just kidding)

@mrsaturdaynightspecial3055 5 жыл бұрын

Let me know how it works out?

@mrsaturdaynightspecial3055 5 жыл бұрын

You could post on your channel. I'll subscribe.

@steelblade1 3 ай бұрын

As of 2024, that 1000 Rand is about $250.00. Gun, safe, training, and everything.

@joeydubbs763 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the complete teardown Ian. Best gun channel on KZfaq.

@J.DeLaPoer 4 жыл бұрын

This looks uncannily like an antique air pistol I used to own. The name escapes me right now, but it had a similar grip angle and profile, the same tubular type top assembly. Call me crazy but I really like the way this thing looks

@KC-bg1th 2 жыл бұрын

Definitely not crazy. The way the top hangs back behind the grip gives it so much more character.

@ukaszwalczak1154 6 ай бұрын

Not an air-gun expert, but seems like one of those Webley air-operated pistols.

@user-ex3ik9pn7l 3 ай бұрын

How was your air pistol cocked?

@michaelhughes3302 4 жыл бұрын

2:41. When Ian realizes he's about to open a giant can of worms. Nice save ole boy!

@browndd 5 жыл бұрын

When I saw the title I started thinking "What the hell" why in the world would anyone intentionally invest the time and money in inventing and manufacturing an expressly illegal firearm. And then I confidently told myself "well I already know why it's on forgotten weapons"! Clever play on words Ian. And also an interesting and novel market for the people at Musgrave to try and pursue.

@ricklyons6125 4 жыл бұрын

Ian, you're awesome man. I can't tell you how many nights I go to sleep and decide im going to learn something and end up on your channel

@chrisdooley6468 3 жыл бұрын

Honest to god up until I started watching you I thought I was generally well informed about the history of many weapons but good grief you have forgotten more than I ever knew lol. Every video I learn something new. It really is a pleasure watching these

@christianfritz6333 3 жыл бұрын

To my knowledge the little metal plate is twofold, it gives reinforcement to the barrel mount, and acts as a heat shield of sorts.

@dbmail545 5 жыл бұрын

I'm impressed that the buffer spring is not very compressed like the Astra M600.

@williamprince1114 5 жыл бұрын

Better looking then a HiPoint.

@_Atzin 5 жыл бұрын

*than

@davidbielski8621 5 жыл бұрын

Probably works a whole hell of alot better and has fewer parts... I'd rather mess with 5 screws than 1 roll pin, come to think of it

@arianaml743 4 жыл бұрын

The hypoint is currently reliable

@amirbutcher2147 5 жыл бұрын

That two-part screwed polymer frame is very reminiscent of the plastic toys I used to play with as a young lad. Another sign of how cheaply these are made.

@twiggss4344 5 жыл бұрын

Also Kel-Tec. lol

@guyrigby109 2 жыл бұрын

@@twiggss4344 YEP. As a fan of Kel-Tec. Yeah lol, also keltec.

@zorro456 5 жыл бұрын

I actually LOVED my Norinco 213. I could swap between 9MM and 7.62X25 with just a barrel swap. All the 7.62X25 needs is a good expanding bullet and I would chose that over the 9mm.

@RedXlV 3 ай бұрын

The Norinco 213 is a Tokarev with a safety added, so it's a quality pistol.

@arkboi6425 3 жыл бұрын

This thing is built exactly like the $1 BB guns the ice cream man sells

@idontcare-ct7jm 2 жыл бұрын

The ice cream man sells $1 BB guns? Lol

@stevegable2707 4 жыл бұрын

love the simplicity and the look of the little beasty !

@ronaldcolman6211 5 жыл бұрын

How is this so much cooler than a Hi-Point? I actually like it. The double stack mag from a known good design just makes it better.

@molochi 5 жыл бұрын

I would reserve judgment for testing. HiPoints work more reliably than the knock off Tokarev that this pistol failed to compete against.

@sneakysnake7695 5 жыл бұрын

The hi point for all the crap it gets is pretty indestructible, watch Demolition Ranch he shot at the thing and it still fired

@joshglover2370 5 жыл бұрын

This kinda looks like one of those Crossman dart guns from Wal-Mart. 😅

@Stormcloakvictory 5 жыл бұрын

From a quick glance (before the video starts) it reminds me of of a Ruger .22 but 9mm

@nhlosomagwaza5052 5 жыл бұрын

The knowledge and insight this man has is incredible. Great video mate !!

@jameslooker4791 3 ай бұрын

I wish there were more videos on KZfaq about this gun.

@bungalobill7941 5 жыл бұрын

Love hearing the history of firearms as much as seeing how they operate

@7come11two 4 жыл бұрын

I think it's beautiful. Beautifully simple. And actually quite attractive to look at. The Beretta magazine sealed the deal for me. I want one. I don't need one. But I want one. I think these would sell quite well in the US, if it's not manufactured with Union labor. It's far more desirable than the Remington R-51, and could probably sell for one third the price.

@geraldrandall1566 2 ай бұрын

I am from South Africa and I have never even heard about this pistol. Your videos are always very well researched and interesting.

@swissbianco 5 жыл бұрын

i had one of these firearms in my hands at the iwa dealer show in nurnberg many years ago. the south africans did exhibit it and because the price was so low there was a good interest for the swiss gunmarket in it but they never made it to swiss unfortunally.

@TheStraycat74 5 жыл бұрын

I would LOVE a video on obtaining technical data packages for guns like this one. because a few minor changes and that'd be a very nice gun for the US market as well

@otm646 4 жыл бұрын

What niche do you think this would fill in the US market?

@lIlIIlIllIIIllIIllIlIllIllI 4 жыл бұрын

@@otm646 "Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated." - Marx

@purpseatpeeps8641 3 жыл бұрын

I just wonder how it would go down if every gun in that room had 1 bullet in it, and they were all set off at once.

@darthmetallord 2 жыл бұрын

Alot of Explosions

@jfbft5007 5 ай бұрын

It is always very interesting to watch your channel, very informative, and which makes us discover all these weapons unknown to the general public.👍

@twilightzone39 4 жыл бұрын

The slide assembly along with the fire control group reminds me of a miniature AR-15 BCG and FCG.

@bensmith7536 5 жыл бұрын

Most prolific content poster, on youtube. Your publish rate is insane, how do you maintain the rage??? BTW, awesome, love your work.

@vvvppp6021 5 жыл бұрын

he is Gun Yisus, he can do anything!

@otm646 4 жыл бұрын

It seems like he films several of these in one day, still requires a lot of research, but that lets him head to an interesting location create a bunch of content then release an episode every few days.

@somebody3143 5 жыл бұрын

This is quite fascinating and quite the turn of phrase when talking about the “Black Market!” Lol

@sambaggins2798 4 жыл бұрын

In another few years that will be a Star Wars blaster.

@vasiliskoutso7122 5 жыл бұрын

thanks a bunch for the great video Ian ....nice little pistol would love thought to see it firing . Keep up the great work !!!!!

@richardsveum8452 5 жыл бұрын

reminds me a lot of the WW2 Era Astra 400 series pistols, Greatly simplified and made more cost effective.

@GoblinHero 5 жыл бұрын

"black market" lol

@planescaped 4 жыл бұрын

That's African-African-American market mister!

@yoinkster6491 3 жыл бұрын

Takes some black magic to make it work.

@shupp6267 3 жыл бұрын

@@yoinkster6491 African American magic, sir

@yoinkster6491 3 жыл бұрын

@@shupp6267 ._. Your one of those people are you.

@shupp6267 3 жыл бұрын

@@yoinkster6491 *You're, and nah I just saw my opportunity to be unfunny

@milmar7d7 4 жыл бұрын

I was really hoping to see you fire this weapon. Good video either way 👍

@edwhitson9873 3 жыл бұрын

I like this design. It looks to be very reliable, simple construction, obviously lightweight. I want one. If any weak point I can see, the cast rear collar

@therideneverends1697 5 жыл бұрын

ahh the tokerev, when you have 250 or so dollars and need a gun that could survive a bomb detonation.

@mobrien7211 5 жыл бұрын

So the gun designed to be cheap and available to the masses, ends up being extremely rare and expensive to own.

@kevinwise1997 4 жыл бұрын

It's just like CCR's "fortunet son" Made as an anti-war song, used in all war movies and games

@merrypickster7824 4 жыл бұрын

Is it crazy that i want one of these, love how the lower frames bolted together

@herbderbler1585 3 ай бұрын

Blowback 9mm, but it doesn't have the giant brick slide of a HiPoint. I bet that's a snappy shooter.

@blamokapow137 5 жыл бұрын

What a really neat, crappy pistol.

@TheMaritimeHorror 5 жыл бұрын

Blamo Kapow I kind of want one. Just to have it

@thesturm8686 4 жыл бұрын

@@TheMaritimeHorror i know, right?

@ILikeToLaughAtYou 3 жыл бұрын

@@TheMaritimeHorror You still lookin for your friend?

@TheMaritimeHorror 3 жыл бұрын

@@ILikeToLaughAtYou I am. Thing is, I’ve been searching all my life for Gavin. I don’t even know what he looks like.

@TheEnglishLongbow 5 жыл бұрын

I'm a bit confused as to how such a light looking blowback pistol can handle the 9mm parabellum. Hi-Points and Astra 600s are certainly heavier with sturdier recoil springs, by the look of it. I also recall the difficulty Ian described with the Dreyse 9mm that had a system bypassing the strong recoil spring in order to cock it. What is this Musgrave like to fire, I wonder?

@rogerwennstrom6677 5 жыл бұрын

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Won't the gun beat itself to death with that little mass and that weak a spring in it?

@Kennethah81 5 жыл бұрын

Theres a certain elegance to its simplicity. Surprisingly decent-looking sights for such a low-cost weapon.

@jwc00789 5 жыл бұрын

Very very Interesting Pistol design! Reminds me of the Spanish Astra 400 and 600 Type Pistols. Thanx for posting!

@toddostrander1026 4 жыл бұрын

What about the long lost Wamo pistols from the 50's. These are hard to find as well as a true mystery because the current mfg denies they ever existed. Thank you for all you have done to educate us on these forgotten weapons.

@wilemelliott 5 жыл бұрын

Watching the disassembly, I see about 3 things that could be changed to improve it [replace the two barrel screws with a single dual pin unit with HK style pin detents to simplify field stripping for instance] that might improve its marketability...oh well

@wilemelliott 5 жыл бұрын

@@iatsd true enough, I just thought the external design was neat and a little refinement might be a good idea. Not that its going to happen, of course

@rognvaldrasbjrn3972 11 ай бұрын

When i saw the thumbnail, and the title, it made me think of some copy of a Welrod or similar assassin pistol used in black ops etc.. the thought of a handgun for the masses only registered once Gun Jesus started talking pre-94 Then I was like okaaaaay..... I was not aware that Musgrave made handguns. I used to do standard and Bisley. My standard rifle was an R1. My Bisley rifle was specially made for me (being in the SAP team) as I shoot mostly off the left shoulder. Thanks Ian for enlightening me with this video on this jewel which is part of our national heritage. Respect from South Africa 🇿🇦

@eternalrecurrence6042 3 жыл бұрын

Ian you're so diplomatic its insane, Great video too.

@nevillecartwright7292 4 жыл бұрын

Wow, what an interesting video! I am a South African and have never seen this pistol before! It reminds me a lot of the old Astra 400 9mm pistols. Thank you for an interesting video.

@Sevensixtytwo 5 жыл бұрын

Would be intresting to see this vs hi-point shooting video.

@MrShiraaz786 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for great content. You should do a video on the Musgrave 12 gauge shotgun from South Africa.... no videos yet online

@Kit-vb5rm 2 жыл бұрын

As usual Ian has proved to be instructive and very interesting . A Nerd who is not a Nerd. Thanks Ian.

@RadiantFeline 5 жыл бұрын

That pistol looks like the offspring of a rough night between a CZ SP-01 and a Ruger MkIV

@ronschramm9163 5 жыл бұрын

The Hi-Point of South Africa...Hmmm...maybe Hi-Point could get the patent rights for this thing. It disassembles slightly easier than a Hi-Point.

@karldensmore6191 4 жыл бұрын

I would buy it

@weswolever7477 4 ай бұрын

Same here

@asteroidrules 3 жыл бұрын

you can really see the economic thinking in the way this thing looks. On the grip frame they did a decent job of molding the grip and logos since it was just being cast so having those details on the casting didn't affect cost, while on the bolt everything was made around having the simplest machining operations and fewest parts possible.

@Bacteriophagebs 3 жыл бұрын

I'd bet anything that the metal plate there is to reinforce the frame for those screws holding the barrel in. I don't know why, but I *love* the way this gun looks. Maybe it's because it's a 9mm that looks like a .22 target pistol. Also, that grip looks really comfortable.

@buckshot4428 4 жыл бұрын

Needs some bailing wire to hold it together.

@thebiteasmr6428 5 жыл бұрын

Hello forgotten weapons and I think you can say You like guns. Well so do I, but this helps me learn more. Thank you.

@vaclavkrpec5554 5 жыл бұрын

That thin mysterious thin metal plate in the frame, just below the chamber & the screws through the company name... Looks to me like they intended to make some sort of more handy take-apart mechanism. But it didn't work or, more likely, was too expensive---so in the end, they ended up with 2 simple screws and since the frame moulds were already done...

@SmilingDevil 5 жыл бұрын

....pauses.... „We will go with not great“... cracked me up...

@Ksportin 5 жыл бұрын

if i were to guess about that metal plate, i'd guess that it was there to protect the polymer frame from the barrel piece that protrudes underneath the barrel. Perhaps they were worried about either the force of the hammer dropping or firing causing that to wear that part of the frame. A very thin piece of metal would be a cheap way of increasing the longevity of the pistol if that were the case and would be cheaper than having to repair and return damaged frames.

@jayzenitram9621 5 жыл бұрын

That piece might not have been just a flat plate. I'm betting it was a U channel which the screws bolted into. I don't see how you would screw the barrel directly to polymer and not have those holes wallow out within a few hundred rounds.

@Celebmacil 5 жыл бұрын

@@jayzenitram9621 Between these two posts, you guys came to the exact conclusion I was thinking of.

@Tiger351 5 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing as both of you guys as well, at certain angles it definitely looks like the metal is also around the screw holes in the frame.

@Ksportin 5 жыл бұрын

@@jayzenitram9621 I was thinking that too. Only reason I didn't say it was Ian said flat plate and was taking his word on it

@monkeyship74401 5 жыл бұрын

I wonder if it was to provide some stiffness/resistance to the bolts that hold the barrel in. So it wouldn't get over tightened?

@dentistguba 5 жыл бұрын

Could the metal plate be there above the trigger for out of battery protection to stop your fingertip getting blown off?

@MonkeyDespot 5 жыл бұрын

My guess is that it's an reinforcing and alignment plate. Since there are only a few screws holding the frame together, and it is made from relatively soft polymer, the plate would help the two halves come together properly and hopefully prevent warping and misalignment from occurring in that area of the frame. ...Just a guess though.

@aoolfsgunsandfun2103 2 жыл бұрын

very interesting pistol indeed you should take the two sections of that polymer frame apart and show us how the trigger mechanism looks like and how it works especially the hammer disconnector

@elvampir0 4 жыл бұрын

It is *not* clickbait guys. Its as real as the "RPG7 and demo shot" video. Dont worry, we still love you Ian.

@normanmccollum6082 3 жыл бұрын

For those who don't know, Norinco 213 is a TT-33, but China produced TT-33 pistols both in 7.62x25 and 9mm to my understanding. Also, 7.62x25 has the same rim as the 9x19. 7.62x25 is effectively a 9x19, with the casing extended to 25mm instead of 19mm, and necked down to 7.62mm. God bless, take care, Jesus loves you. I don't normally end my comments like this but for some reason I had this sense of love come over me and so I included it, sort of felt like someone might read this who's in a dark place and could do with a message of genuine love. It's true, Jesus loves you, take care.

@JippaJ 5 жыл бұрын

I really, REALLY, like the design. Fixed barrel, low complexity and low cost (at least at the time).

@s.armitage3963 3 жыл бұрын

I think that piece of metal above the trigger on the frame bends up to the side and gives the screws something metal to screw into. It looks shiny through the holes.