What depression meds do they disallow?

They really shouldn’t allow depressed pilots to fly. It’s nothing personal, but a serious safety issue.

Holy shit makes me not want to fly x10 now

yep. A whole section in the FAA training for PPL specifically for Alaska pilots.

@susanfanning9480 Since he wasn't flying at that time, he knew full well that he should not be on that flight, having had psychedelics within 48 hrs prior to boarding that plane. I feel very sad for the passengers and for his family, but I don't feel badly for him.

He took psychedelics, that isn’t an organic mental breakdown.

It seems he's one of these people who, being suicidal, wants to take a whole lot of innocent people with him. And he is fighting the charges. I find it difficult to sympathize. Depression and psychedelics might unleash existing compulsions but they don't create them. There are no excuses for his behaviour. He's dangerous.

Remember this next time calls any form of drug use or possession a "victimless" crime.

I am sure that is NOT TRUE !!!

That crossed my mind. Was the guy the main breadwinner for his family? Were mushrooms a shortcut or a desperate attempt to keep the wheels on his family's wagon?

@@lesliefitzgerald2354 You don't know much about the yearly FAA medical evaluation.

​@@lesliefitzgerald2354 💯 at the very least he would be suspended.

@@pamlove421no he could literally lose his job and have be flagged an issue for all future projects. It’s the same in the military. If you admit you’re struggling, you get punished for it.

Exactly my thought. Combine that with 'shrooms (which could have cleared his system by then but who knows) and that's a recipe for disaster.

You are unbelievable. Pretty sure it was the shrooms. So, it was the lack of sleep, not the drugs. Right?!

​@@Straightjacket154shrooms last 8 hours.....

@@originalmetalman9430 So you think that frequent use of hallucinogenic drugs won’t permanently damage your brain?

@@Straightjacket154 wow. You must never be lonely with all those straw men. I never said that goofy. He tried shroms once a few days before the flight. If they do then you must be a fan of them.

That's such a shame

that's insane that pilots are going through this with losing medical? america needs universal healthcare already, this shit is dark sided.

So, admit that you need medical, and they take your medical away? Nuts. As a flight attendant, when I was in a dark place my supervisor was incredibly supportive. Still, I would have gotten EVERY LAST LIVING BEING off a threatened plane, I just wouldn't have cared about myself. Pilots should receive EXTRA concern and care. This is messed up!❤

And their career as a pilot should and must be over and they should work on something else where public safety is not on jeopardy.

​​@@exceptionaltalentspc4954For this guy, 100% agree. But, in general, I think pilots need better mental health support without the fear of permanently losing their careers.

Hang on there- this can vary really widely from person to person. I know people who have taken higher doses/amounts of mushrooms, and tripped for 2 days straight. I was always a lot more moderate, so my experiences have been a lot closer to the timeline you reference, but just know that human variance covers a lot of ground

From someone who trips a lot - you’re not tripping for two days unless you’re taking something every few hours. I’ve taken the heroic doses and beyond and 12 hours is about the longest they will last and the last few hours are not that intense although it h you certainly won’t be sleeping. Either you are BS’ing or you were BS’d.

@@sarahissersohn5495 I’d be more inclined to believe that 40+ hours of sleep deprivation did what it is commonly known to do, than to speculate about a substance randomly lasting 7 times longer than normal.

Those new methrooms.

Regardless of how long the chemical effects of mushrooms last, they can trigger underlying things in some people depending on their body chemistry, psychological circumstances, and a complex confluence of other variables. Magic mushrooms can trigger panic attacks or temporary psychosis which in turn can trigger longer lasting mental health breakdowns that continue long after the chemical effects of the drug have subsided. Talk to any ER doctor and they will tell you how many people have come in with mental breakdowns after eating mushrooms. It seems obvious to me that is what happened with Joe.

This.

Really? I’m a sperg and I always like blunt openings.

Plus all the quips 😁

I suspect that Dr. G is also on the spec. 😁

​@@leannemo7382Could be, he has a very analytical mind and doesnt really seem to have a lot of affect. Common among autistic folks but one cant know for certain. Some folks are just wired differently

That’s true! I hope they take that into account. He did really well to verbalize as much as he did, in my opinion. I have explored some psychedelics before, and I think, while I’ve definitely never put anyone’s life at risk, it’s probably not uncommon to have a moment where you’re like, am I going to freak out right now? Things feel intense; should I interpret this as something to panic about? But then, you just breathe, and remind yourself that everything is going to be fine, you just need to focus on something else, and things will shift in a less intense direction. And so it is.

Side note: This is a really good reminder that psychedelics are not a safe lesson plan for every learner. To paraphrase a famous sage, The Magic Theatre is not for everyone. Many different religious traditions have a component where they talk about not showing up to the wedding without the proper garments - this can be interpreted as being a warning not to sign up for a more advanced/intense mental triathlon than your brain has been training for. When I used to use psychedelics, I would make sure I had been doing 20min of transcendental meditation (the only method that’s been clinically shown to catalyze physiological changes in the brain) every day for at least a month, prior to dropping. I have been able to talk myself through some intense learning experiences, so I feel like it’s served me well, as a preventative mental health strategy.

Are you serious? He tried to open the plane door too. Not just shut the engines off.

@@sarahissersohn5495Oh Sarah,Sarah….!

@@sarahissersohn5495are you on drugs now? He wasn’t a “learner” and psychedelics aren’t a “lesson plan”

Great words. You're right.

Well said! I agree! My whole family loves Dr. Grande!

It's crazy; how is he able to put out SO much content?! I love it!

This world just keeps giving him so much content to choose from 😂😂

Yep!

It doesn't help that some work environments groom a person into believing they need to be machines to do their jobs. Workers, beware. Been there, done that.....and it was a rude awakening.

I thought he said, struck and killed the mayor 😲

We all did 😊

IKR 😂

Please don't encourage the therapist.

What if a bear went through one of those engines? During certification of an engine design, dead chickens are shot into the test engine to simulate a bird strike. A bird strike can destroy the engine completely but the failure must not be bad enough to destroy the rest of the aircraft. I.E. the pieces of the destroyed engine shouldn't be ejected outward to become shrapnel. Bears are much bigger and heavier than any bird alive today.

Unfortunately with advances in genetic engineering they may actually succeed

As correctly predicted by Futurama.

There should be term limits, unfortunately though they would never agree to that as they would have to limit themselves

This part got me 🤣

Reverse the Citizens United decision and also get Ranked Choice Voting and a good deal of the problem would be resolved

How do you know he's a "decent individual"??

Clearly not a decent person. No one who is decent will pilot a plane on mushrooms.

@@lubtv8792 it's not the 'shrooms I'm worried about. He tried to shut down the engines. With another in command of the aircraft with 83 souls onboard. He sucks. Hope he takes to Ubering. He'll be doing a lot of it.

​@@lubtv8792he wasn't piloting the plane. He was a passenger.

decent / descent

Supposedly he claimed he took them 48 hours earlier, they're hard to test for so we'll never really know, but if he did take them that much earlier, he was *not* high during the flight. Just 40 hours of no sleep and severely depressed/mentally fragile made him go suicidal.

I told them I want to remain silent and use the 5th amendment, they continued pestering me with question I looked up and smiled and asked are you serious? Didn’t I just tell u that I plead the 5th. Why are you continuously violating my rights?

I'm always impressed with Dr Grande's research when it comes to technical areas outside of his expertise. He does a good job of researching and presenting accurate information.

Nobody knows anybody's fullest extents of expertise. There are many autodidacts and polymaths who live among us. @@skyhawk_4526

He has a team that works for him, as do most KZfaqrs with channels this size.

Joesph was really flying high on his trip

ugh

😂

I've done them a handful of times, but always in a safe, controlled environment. Never ever would I do them in public though, that's crazy

I knew someone in college who flew a small plane and notoriously mushrooms were the least of what he did. He was always trying to get people to go up with him…I always graciously declined lol. I did them but always with others on the ground in a controlled group

Mushrooms sound like fun.

😂😂😂

Not exactly.... Due to loophole in the law, "truffles" are still openly sold despite having the same psychoactive chemicals as the mushrooms - they're just a different part of the same fungus.

I did not know that, but I checked, and you are right. Thanks, brother@@dingo137

It's because dumbass tourists used them irresponsibly. Truffles contain psilocybin as well and are still legal.

Here in Vancouver we have cannabis and mushrooms everywhere. No social problems from it or increased crime. Zero. You're welcome to visit our clean, community-orientated dispensaries for both substances. No problems here in Vancouver!

@@frijolero6048 From the information I found, in Vancouver psilocybin is not legal but exemptions for people needing it for depression or end-of-life or other psychological problems can be exempted from the ban. The 2022 article I found enumerated about 80 people who had been helped--things may have drastically changed since then. This is a cautious well-thought-out approach, designed to maximize the benefits to those in need. The Netherlands legalized the substance, which produced an influx of tourism from other countries. The tourists had mixed motivations and knowledge of the substance and wound up in crisis more often than the Netherlanders were willing to accept. Hence, they re-restricted most forms of psilocybin. Apparently, magic truffles are still legal.

Agreed, and also suffering depression for six months.

From what I've read elsewhere, the mushrooms were likely the reason he wasn't able to sleep for 40 hours.

​@@thelogicaldangerI've never heard of insomnia being a side-effect of psilocybin mushrooms. I'm not doubting you read that, but I do doubt the veracity of that assertion.

@@raymondvunk7123 I don't know anything about magic mushrooms, so believed what I was read. Although it did strike me as strange, I've also never before heard of magic mushrooms keeping people up for days, like meth would .

@@raymondvunk7123 one thing that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere in the news reporting on this story is whether or not he actually took psilocybin mushrooms. Where did he get them? Were they dried mushroom material, or mushroom infused chocolates? There are a lot of products on the market these days that contain synthetic psychedelics like 4-AcO-DMT marketed as psilocybin, but there is no lab testing or quality control. Who knows what Emerson actually took and how much.

That's one case. Here in Vancouver mushrooms are common and we have zero social problems and few health issues in the community. Alcohol is (and data backs it up) far more of a social/health problem than both Cannabis and mushrooms combined.

Yeah that sounds like a mentally unstable person who happened to take mushrooms.

I've climbed big walls in yosemite on mushrooms. It increased my focus. I've taken them for over 10 years and nothing even remotely like what happened to the pilot in this video has ever happened to me. I have yet to have a hallucination on them. I don't think it's a good idea to be operating a plane or motor vehicle on them. Risking yourself is one thing, risking others is another. Psychedelics can absolutely induce psychosis in people with underlying conditions, diagnosed or not, like schizophrenia. I'm not defending using shrooms, but I don't think it's any worse than weed. Neither is advisable but both are far better than alcohol. Without further details if I had to guess causation for the pilot based on available information I would say it's being awake for 40 hours, although I'm sure shrooms only exacerbated that. Stay up that long and you will start to hallucinate. I've been up for two-days and I started to have aural hallucinations -- mild whispering in the hallway. Drugs, not good. Sleep deprivation, bad. Alcohol, very, very bad.

Thank you, juliereyes8783! The fact that people are defending taking mushrooms and how safe they are makes me concerned for their judgement. Pilot's on hallucinogenics even for recreation is deeply troubling. Thank you, Dr. Grande! This is a very concerning matter.

that would open a completely new hell, seriously analyzing people from movies, especially from the bad ones :D

Don't forget it was his first time. He probably didn't know what to expect and actually thought he was in a dream, or that everything was all in his mind, or who knows. The first time can be confusing if you don't know what to expect. Yananamean? ;D

yes, he is a total JERK, putting it mildly not to be censored.

@@mistrjt9213 He took them 48 hours before the incident, his high was long gone. The trip might have brought his serious mental issues to the forefront, and without any comedown guidance and with 40 hours without sleep, possibly made made him psychotic and suicidal. That's some insane shit by god, but he wasn't actually high on the plane.

this guy was as stupid as they come. good thing he's no longer a pilot. he can blame it on anything he wants.

Well they then filed like 90 charges. 😅

Hes probably just using the shrooms as an excuse, a way to lessen his guilt and for a lot of these comments its worked. I wanna see the cockpit video like how hard was it to keep him from crashing the plane? Dude just screwed up his whole life, lucky he was in the bucket seat and not actually flying, wow 😳

He also hadn't slept in 40 hours.

@@yowgyrl and convinced he was going through a breakdown for potentially several months

Yes 100%. Dude was a dumbass for taking the shrooms being a pilot, but definitely out of his system after a day or so. Crazy story

Psychedelics can trigger psychological episodes and those don't have a half life. Since he had underlying mental health issues, I'm not at all surprised this happened.

Thats a switch.

Yup. Psychedelics are the only thing that have made my PTSD symptoms manageable.

It's interesting how many people think that "I've never seen that happen" is a good reason to think "That never happens".

He supposedly took them 48 hours before the incident, and he claimed he took them, could be a weak try at legal defense. Either way if he took them 48 hours before he wasn't high anymore. Just insanely deep into some bad mental health issues and no sleep, bad combination.

@@uniquechannelnames One of the side effects listed was protracted psychosis.

nice 😎 sometimes I get stinking drunk and I turn out just fine 🤓 I’ve never in my life seen Anyone who’s stinking drunk lose touch with reality to the point where they would do something like this…I seriously doubt liquor had much to do with it 💀

I 100% agree. The shrooms just exacerbated that. I think shrooms were secondary at best in terms of causation, but much better for click bait headlines.

You're not flying a plane or driving a bus full of passengers though

Im on the spectrum as well, i have no access to mushrooms so how do you get some???.

​@vice2versa when you meet new acquaintances and coworkers n stuff, you can ask if they partake in shrooms and if they can help you n.n or you can figure out how to grow them at home

Always trying to make shrooms and whatnot fit. You are all the same. Worse than door to door religion.

I have suffered depression and anxiety all my life. I’ve tried everything- went to talk therapy for years. Tried mushrooms and they worked somewhat but made me tired. So I tried microdosing LSD - works well but I have to cycle on and off it because the body builds tolerance to LSD as well as mushrooms quickly to the point there is no effect at all. So in my experience that’s the biggest problem with using them on a daily basis and may be the reason LSD and mushrooms may never become widely used to treat mental conditions. I must say though whenever I’ve used either, hurting anybody is the furthest thing from my mind. Quite the opposite actually. I feel more connected and compassion for others. This pilot had issues well beyond mushrooms. I’ve never herd mushrooms implicated in any violent crime in my life. Also both are next to impossible to over dose on. But it goes without saying that a pilot or anybody entrusted with others lives should not be using them or any other psychiatric drug. I don’t want a pilot flying a plane I’m flying on taking Prozac or any other antidepressant anymore than I would want them taking LSD or mushrooms.

It’s destroyed Portland. Businesses have left and the only people left are those strung out on heroin and fentanyl. Looks like the Walking Dead.

You guys have made LOTS of mistakes in Oregon. But don't feel too bad; I'm from California. We've done worse.

I've done mushrooms many times. Before ever trying them I did a good deal of research and learned what I would be in for. My first trip pulled me out of the deepest depression I ever experienced. All of my trips have been the most beautiful experiences of my life. I remember one night I walked to the beach and took an eighth. It was warm that night, the moon illuminated the sand with a soft glow as the ocean air rolled in. I went for a three hour walk alone. I'm not a believer in god and generally believe life is suffering, a sort of existential prison where our lives are mostly consumed with tediousness and a dreary Sisyphusian cycle of working jobs we hate simply to keep ourselves alive just to do it over and over and over again. But that night I was in the presence of God. I experienced something a person like me never does: Real joy, an overwhelming gratitude for being alive. The feeling endures long after the trip and breathes life into an otherwise often grey existence. Psychedelics are deeply meaningful to so many us. I realize this incident was profoundly scary and it saddens me mushrooms were involved. But he made a ton of mistakes and did not have respect for these compounds or for the principle of set and setting. He chose to have his first psychedelic experience while being incredibly sleep deprived in a cockpit of an airline... to anyone who's done a minutes worth of research you'd know what a horrible decision that is. I realize plenty of people don't do their research and behave wrecklessly. This is a problem for the idea of legalization, no doubt. But for those of us who have respect for these compounds they are truly like nothing else in this world. They offer us a glimpse at a world beyond our own, a deep feeling that there is something sacred within us and all around us. I hope we can all understand the complicated nature of these compounds and remember that for every nightmare incident like this there are thousands of beautiful and life transforming experiences happening all over the globe. They just don't make the news.

Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Can there be nuance? Scared of things you don’t understand. Go drink your beer like a good outstanding and conforming American. The acceptable way to cope with things. These things would happen regardless of legality. Look at our opioid crisis brought on by our medical professionals/drug dealers in lab coats and big Pharma. Much worse issue and psilocybin has way more medical benefits than opioids. If only the federal red tape would allow us to study them more maybe people like you would know more.

Honestly, we weren’t prepared (Portlander here). If it was pre-planned better with checks and balances it probably would’ve gone really well. Treatment and impact panels instead of jail has shown phenomenal differences. Idk what’s going on with our addiction funding (and I work in the field!) but it’s low, and no one wants to address it. Also, Oregon’s known for its extensive-ish studies going back decades with solid evidence supporting psychedelic therapy. BUT! They’ve been silenced. And the studies are only extensive-ish because even today, scientists keep cranking out evidence and reports but the funding stops just short of actually publishing these findings. We have the answers right here in the PNW, and possibly the cure to cancer in…idk…Michigan or something. But the “powers that be” never seem to provide enough funding for actual publishing 🧐

You're definitely understating the risk to the aircraft of two engines out, and gliding a jet to a safe landing is far from guaranteed. Everything has to go right including clearing lower flight levels of traffic as you lose altitude both due to bleeding speed and needing to get within the engine relight envelope. For example, on an A320 the aircraft needs to be below 30,000 feet to do a relight.

I was a Blackhawk crew chief for 8 years. There is no guarantee of "gliding" to a landing being anything simple. Glideslope, range, weather, wind, are all very unforgiving. Gliding at a high elevation landing in cold or hot weather affects everything. There is a damn good chance they would have crashed.

@@nighttrain1236 and above 250ish kt to respin the engines so a dive to restart may cost your glide distance and isn't guaranteed to work

How would the plane glide to the nearest airport if both engines were off? Wouldn't it just nosedive?

@@nhlpens583 And I'm saying they couldn't have restarted the engines if the fire suppression system had been activated. It is a mechanical impossibility.

Whoa- I would not call psychedelics a quick fix for much of anything- they can be very demanding teachers - I have always used psychedelics more as a student of the universe, and of my own mind, rather than seeking mindless recreation, personally, but like therapy with a really skilled practitioner, it’s not particularly fun or easy, even when it’s beautifully poignant or powerfully transformative. It just would never occur to me, to think of psychedelics as being recreational. The only problem is, this isn’t a When the Teacher Appears, The Student Is Ready kinda things- if the learner is unprepared for the experience, it can really go sideways.

@sunnycatc6491 Yes but did it occur to you this pilot might have been in charge of his own aircraft as Captain or F/O???? Also please look up Sioux City 1989 - many, many passengers survived a total loss of hydraulics in part thanks to an off-duty pilot on the flight DECK!

That's a clueless and ignorant pretense to suppose about psilocybin mushrooms, not what thousands of years of traditional use and the vast array of scientific studies indicate at all.

​@@sarahissersohn5495Most people use psychedelics for recreational purposes. Let's be real.

@lisaa8795 I just looked it up, wow. Good point. I read that it was "Children's Day", many young victims were flying alone 😔 .

Sorry to hear of your suffering. At least you have not lost your empathy and compassion for others. I agree it seems some people are hoping for a quick fix and I think others are looking for scientific validation for recreational drug use. There is also money to be made from a marketable product.

Works for me. 👍

Exactly.

One of my relatives worked in the USSR in the 1980s and 1990s. Flying was the best way to get from one place to another (he didn't work in an 'office job' in Moscow or St Petersburg). He was often concerned at the state (and age) of the planes and the state and health of the pilots. If an accident had occurred, even if the pilots had been able to land the plane, they would probably not have survived long enough for help to reach them, as they flew over remote, desert areas. Beautiful scenery and mountains though.

At this point, I'm pretty sure he's no longer an employee of the airline. But, yeah, I do hope he gets some help. It seems like he knew he lost it. I also hope he never gets on another airplane again.

One of the dangers he listed was protected psychosis.

😂😂 good one!😂😂

They should have done a poo analysis

@@Ccyawn123 his credibility and life are pretty much poop now. i don't believe a word of it.

Mushroom advocates really pulling a fast one today. The denial that addicts favourite drugs do harm never fail to astound me.

@@skycloud4802 addicts? HA! you seem knowledgeable.

Blame the 40 hours no sleep, blame the depression, but why not the shrooms, and the 1001 other decisions that lead to this point, mans getting a tv show and I just see shroom sells going up because idk

Yeah, he earned a nickname for that...King something? I dunno, it's been a while. I heard it while watching Mr Ballen.

He ate them over 30 hours before getting on the plane. Their effect is only 6 to 7 hours long.

​@@bradsanders6954 ok. Good to know.

@@bradsanders6954 Is there evidence to establish that is true for all people, and for any dose level? If that was true in this case, what explains 40 hours with no sleep (assuming, of course, that anything he said was true at all.)

Lol not a chance

I've always been too scared to try hallucinogenics. I've got enough going on in my mind!

but were you still tripping 48 hours later? That's what this pilot is claiming.

Some people find micro-dosing helpful. Too bad this situation could set things back due to someone being super irresponsible.

@@Hawaiian_Shirt_guy no I wasn’t. But that’s got nothing to do with my anecdote.

Bruce Dickinson or John Travolta. They can actually fly planes.

If nothing else, a survivor. Though he turns 80 only in December.

he didn't take any responsibility.

You think he should accept 600+ years of jail time without a trial?

@@j.t.1086 that's what taking responsibility means. Guilty, on to sentencing. What do you think it means to "take responsibility"?

Nancy Regan and her husband are responsible for the terrible drug epidemic we have now… just say no is about as effective as abstinence only sex-ed. It doesn’t work.