As a "young" (I'm under 40 lol) classical music listener who streams most of his music and rarely goes to concerts, I salute my elders for keeping the industry alive by buying these 100CD box sets.

When I was nine, my mom was watching a film version of Puccini’s TOSCA (Kabaivanska/Domingo/Milnes) on PBS in the living room. I was in my bedroom doing homework. Suddenly I heard this amazing sequence of II and V chords going back and forth with profound gravitas. I went to the living room to see what it was. It was the Te Deum that ends Act 1. I was watching behind my mom without her knowing. My life in the classical world began that night. If she had shoved me in front of the TV and forced me to watch TOSCA, I wouldn’t have been interested. Maybe that’s the kind of thing record labels need to do. Appeal to the already converted and leave it to younger people to figure it out. Great video as always, David.

I think I'm your youngest subscriber (at least among the devoted ones). I'm 16 and I have no musical education whatsoever. Well, I studied a little music theory from the internet related to specific pieces which catered to my ears and now have just enough knowledge to know what you're talking about. I won't call myself a hard-core record collector or a record collector at all. I just collect the recordings (from youtube and spotify) which you mention and decide my favourites' from them... I think I'm an old person by heart for no one of my age group know anything beyond Mozart, Beethoven and Haydn and I, now, enjoy no other genre other than classical. You and your channel alone give me a sense of belonging for my love of classical music for it is now somehow my life...

Meanwhile, young people like me are getting indoctrinated by TwoSetViolin :)

I am a Malaysian from a poor family background. The first time I heard real classical music, Schubert's Serenade, was on a lowly Rediffusion wired radio service in the early 70s, it's a mono lousy speaker box that broadcaster 18 hours a day (6 AM - 12 AM). I was only 11 I think, the program was a 30-minute introductory weekly session on classical music, played at 11 - 11:30 PM. the sound quality was nothing to shout about, it sounded even poorer than those disco boomboxes that ruled the world that would appear 10 years later, but to me what I heard was like Heaven! from that moment on I knew what is good music vs bad music.

I got a record of the Elgar Pomp and Circumstance Marches given to me as a kid but more importantly started out loving the film soundtracks of the likes of Goldsmith and Williams when film scoring was orchestral and often classical in style. That, in addition to liking the classical music used in films, gave me the desire to get more into classical music. I started going to concerts and buying CDs from late teenage years onwards and now have hundreds of discs in my collection. Interesting how we see our 'routes' into the music we love.

I'm 24 years old. My parents were not particularly musical, neither was the rest of my family. I've been brought to classical music by my own curiosity when I was a young teenager. But I must say, I often wonder if it would have made a difference if I had a serious musical education. I definitely think people like me would have benefited from an early exposition to classical music. But like you said, we're kind of an exception.

1) Belated congratulations for your birthday, young man. In fact, you're three months younger than me, which means, I feel very old now... 2) You're right: The audience for classical music is rather old. Speaking for Vienna, the Philharmonic has the oldest audience, but that is tradition. The youngest audience had always the State Opera, but it became so expensive in relation to the average income that one cannot afford it as a younger person. 3) The music education is a mess. Befriended teachers tell me that they have the choice either to speak about the actual pop-stars or to get no attention at all. When I was in school (an ordinary junior high followed by an ordinary high school), we even learned to harmonize simple folk-tunes, to transpose clarinets, horns and trumpets aso and to read simple scores. We learned to listen active to the whole music history starting with plain chant and ending with Messiaen, Ligeti and Stockhausen. But now, even in my old school, nothing of this has survived. 4) I fear, we're the dinosaurs of the musical elite. 5) I like dinosaurs! I think, I'm a Stego.

A few of your posters talk of being ‘exposed’ to classical music at an early age, in the sense of an incidental listening experience. I spent the first 25 years of my life in the UK where, at that time (up to 1972) you couldn’t help but overhear classical works on the radio, Radio 3 if someone had tuned in accidentally or on the Light Programme, on ‘Forces Request’ or ‘Family Favourites’. By the time I left school I could hum bits of dozens of well-known pieces even if I had no idea what they were. Active interest in classical music didn't take place until I got to university and found the only way to give my new stereo a workout, aside from the handful of pop lps I could afford, was to raid the extensive classical collection in the uni library. Later moving to Canada and marrying a Montreal girl, I found that when a classical warhorse came on the radio, a piece that I’d heard dozens of times as a kid, it was completely new to her. Having had no exposure to the classics whatsoever, acquisition of of a taste, eventually love, for the genre was a far longer journey for her than it had been for me. So I agree with the base point that trying to ‘educate’ youngsters into the classics is a fruitless exercise. Up to your late teens, you hear the word ‘educate’ and you run for the hills. But I’d like to hear a little classical music on the radio amongst all the talktalk and nonstop MOR dross that's currently pumped out. Some of it may soak in the way it did for me and many others.

I was 20 years old when the CD first came out in 1983. By the time 1990 rolled around, I probably owned 800 discs, 98% classical. What a great time that was!

I remember a concert featuring one of the Brahms string quartets, during which I was unexpectedly brought to tears. It might have been the Tokyo Quartet playing. At the time I reflected that after the age of 40 I was in a good condition to appreciate Brahms' chamber music. Either during the intermission or after the concert I went to the record shop there at the National Auditorium in Madrid and bought myself a Philips box with the Brahms chamber works--11 Cds or so. This was around 20 years ago.

Just turned 62 - so what - in my heart I’m forever 19 - in fact to quote Bob Dylan: “I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now” - these talks of yours are priceless, my first stop every morning is to see what you’ve got to say and you never disappoint (so far, lol)....

In 2019 I traveled to New York City to attend the Met’s production of the Ring Cycle. As most of us had the same seats for all 4 evenings, I had the chance to get to know the crowd, at least by sight. And I was surprised at how elderly they were (I was 65 at the time), quite a few with either wheel chairs or walkers. I was pleasantly surprised that there were younger people. The couple to my right may have been late 40s and the gentleman to my left was in his mid-30s. Ticket prices were exorbitant so that may have had an impact on who could attend. But what was funny was that a few weeks later, I was at the Rock ‘n Roll HoF in Cleveland and the crowd was only marginally younger than the Met crowd, and quite a few of them also had wheel chairs and walkers! So, Rock ‘n Roll May have the same problem that classical music has.

I remember being exposed to classical music when I was a young teenager and my dad bought the "hooked on classics" records. I remember it started with the opening of "Also sprach Zarathustra" from Richard Strauss. I was really impressed about that music as I was basically listening to pop rock those days. But that was it. When I was in my mid twenties I bought a couple of cds, Vivaldi's Four Seasons and Bach's Brandenburg Concertos. Loved it. But that was it. Apparently not ready yet to dive deep into the vast universe of the classical music. When I was in my mid thirties, my friend gave me some cds. Bruckner's fourth caught me so much atrention that I went back to him asking for more tips about that composer and others to explore. Well, I was really "hooked by classics" that time. After 20 years and 500+ cds of classical music I'm still in love and exploring new stuff in the genre. Took me some time to be ready, some maturity and some money. Nowadays I think the exploration process of the curious young person may be easier and cheaper. Just sample Spotify, for example. Cheers.

Brilliant! Wonderful! Utterly and thoroughly enjoyable. Thank you!

I’m 17 years old and I play the clarinet. I listen to classical music every single day. My favorite is probably Shostakovich. I will make sure classical music lives on.

David, you were right on with your views. My classical appreciation has only grown over the years. I started with the Beatles and moved on to all other forms of music. I now attend more classical concerts than all other forms. We have gone from the heyday of rock in the 60's - 80's and now have settled for a boring popular music. Of course I have my favorite composers, but what I really enjoy about classical music is the complexity, simplicity, grandeur and intimacy that can all happen in the same piece. It's truly amazing that a single note can bring a tear to your eye! Randy

The dog food analogy is BRILLIANT. Omg.

Thank you! I’ve thought this for years and am glad to hear it finally articulated!

David, just love, love your presentations: I cannot believe I have found someone giving voice to what I have thought internally for many decades... so good. But you express everything in a cogent way that I am not capable of!

The dumbed-down marketeering approach you rightly deplore reminds me of a quote attributed to some general during the height of the Vietnam war: "It was necessary to destroy the village in order to save it."

I'm 21 years old, and a few months ago I randomly found a guy from the region I live in a music analysis video. We started talking and eventually met in real life to go to a concert where they played Borodin's 2nd symphony and Kalinnikov's 1st symphony. The thing is that after the concert was over a girl approached us and asked how old we were and she said that it was rare to find young people interested in classical music. So we shared our contacts and decided to create a small group for concerts. It turns out I am the oldest of them and all 3 of us were born in 2000. So yeah, it is uncommon to find young people interested in classical music but we do exist, and I also believe it is a demographic that is going to grow in the future. Also there is plenty of evidence of young adults or teens interested in classical music or even composition (me for example) when it comes to the Internet. The YoungComposers forum is an example and there are lots of Discord servers too.

I started accompanying my aunt to the Grand Philharmonic Hall in StPetersburg, RU at 10, but my real love affair with classical music began a little later, when Van Clibourn took the USSR by storm, winning 1st Tchaikovsky competition. Not only Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninov became the foundation of my classical library, but Chopin, Beethoven and Brahms, Schubert and Schumann. Unfortunately many other composers stayed unknown to me, because Soviet radio and concert halls were very restrictive toward the music of Debussy, Mahler, Saint Seans, Ravel, Bruckner, Mendelsohn, etc. I met them later in my life, attending concerts in Chicago and indulging in collection of all I could afford. And thanks to your presentations on KZfaq, my understanding and appreciation of so many musical treasures keep expanding.

I just want to say that I’m 42 years old and that I have started understanding and appreciating classical music only about 8 years ago. Ever since, ClassicsToday and this channel have been really helpful to me. Young People’s Concerts as well. So anyway, thanks a lot! 🙌🏻😊

I grew up attending a Lutheran congregation with its attendant strong half-millennia of musical heritage. Everyone, and I mean everyone was able to open a hymnal and sing in four (or more) part harmony. Large pipe organ accompanying a large chancel choir. When I very young, our organist (by the name of Minnie) was a woman of a vintage that I suspect that she was at one time J.S. Bach's girlfriend. Nevertheless, during the postlude, we youngins' would race up to the organ loft and watch her play. Then, afterward she would change the stops to activate the bell/chimes and let each of us press a key, giving us a taste of what it was like to play the king of instruments. It was magical for a 9 or 10 year old. Later I remember my mother and I riding in a car with the church choir director on the way to some kind of a choir festival or other and he had WOSU-FM on the radio. Through the speakers rang out Saint Saens "Danse Macabre". I was absolutely enthralled...and I never looked back. Shortly thereafter I got my first somewhat legit record player for Christmas, much to my father's chagrin. He, being of the country/western musical preference, when hearing my blasting of Beethoven's 5th would shout up the stairs "Turn that s**t down!" Ah....the beginnings of my musical rebellion......

I am a kindred spirt to you. I too grew up in the Bay Area in California and am also a Percussionist ( Timpanist ) .Continue your Wonderful reviews. They are totally enlightened and humorous as well. BRAVO to you David and HAPPY BIRTHDAY !!!

I was listening to classical music when I was 11 or 12. I live in a rural area and by 13 years old i spent my weeks looking forward to classical orchestra concerts at various nights of the week. I just turned 50. What I'm listening to and who I'm listening to continues to grow.

As a young person I was sceptical about the title but when you mentioned the exceptionally musical, I was relieved. Gerry Schwarz, I think might agree with you since when he became older, he left Seattle and founded an orchestra in Florida where a lot of retirees are. Very smart on his part.

When I started piano lessons at age 9 (I'm 46 now, younger than your average classical listener), my musical tastes were still forming. Of course, as a beginning piano student, I was playing simplified versions of the classics (among other things), so I naturally gravitated toward classical. At age 10, I scraped together $3 and bought a cassette tape called 'Schubert's Greatest Hits' (it included, among other things, the complete 'Unfinished' symphony, some excerpts from 'Rosamunde', and the Moment Musical no.3)... and I've been hooked ever since. I sought it out myself - it wasn't forced on me (if it had, I'm sure I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much - if at all!) I can speak to what you said about young adults starting careers and families and having precious little free time - that's exactly what happened to me. Between long work hours and chores and family time, my day was full. I even ripped my classical CDs to a hard drive and sold them off on eBay (BIG mistake!), figuring the days of listening to a CD, score in hand and free of distractions, were over - and 'listening on the go' was my new normal. But I've experienced a couple of life-changing events in the last year or so, and that has forced me to reevaluate my priorities. And one of those things that was important to me? Listening to a CD, score in hand and free of distractions. So now I'm slowly reacquiring music on disc (your channel has been a BIG help) and relishing every minute of it! Life is too short to not do what brings us joy - and classical music brings me joy. Even the finale of Mahler 6! Side note: I wonder if the major labels are successful in their pursuit to attract younger buyers. For instance, is DG sucking in the Millennials and Gen-Z'ers with Balmorhea and Johann Johannson? (I've never heard of either one until I perused their website.) One wonders who their target audience is...

Brilliant, and very refreshing! Finally we are told that classical musicians/producers/promoters should treat our art as what it is rather than “reinvent” or otherwise debase what is already perfect, and focus on the very best performance and personal interpretation of the art we are capable of. Thank you!

What I'm happy and proud of is the proactive policies of the Curtis Institute of Music. They encourage the students to teach in the inner-city schools. With budget cuts, music education has been cut. Curtis's students help in filling the gap. So vital to plant the seed of interest in classical music.

You are so right, David. I'm in my 70's and have enjoyed many genres of music since childhood and still do, though classical is at the forefront these days, for all the reasons you noted. I'm very glad that there are many young people who can connect with the classics. At the same time, I lament how our modern world has produced so many short attention spans and people who seem to require almost constant sensory stimulation. Unfortunately, they are unlikely to connect with the more nuanced realm of classical music. Happily, I came of age in an earlier time when silence had value and just listening to the music, of whatever genre, was all I needed. Only my geezerly view, of course.

I'm glad you gave this talk . I also 20 years from now, that older people will be 80%of our population. diane lewis

As a teenager in the ‘60s I was greatly encouraged by a very good friend to expand my musical experience, especially with Mahler who was just becoming popular. I started with the 7th which was available on a budget label. We were regarded as slightly odd, going to the local concert hall and to one or two BBC Prom concerts. My other friends were heavily into Hendrix and Cream!

You are 100% spot on with this

Thank you for this video. I must admit I was frightened by this title; me being a "young" person (20 years old)... and someone who plans to study conducting in the future.... I love classical music more then I can express and the "sound" of classical music, beginning with Vivaldi's "Four Seasons", always intrigued me and attracted my ears. Even when I was little (3 -4 years old) I new what "classical" music sounded like and when my parents put on anything else, I wasn't interested... Of course, I love several other genres too, but classical music has been and still is my favorite music and to me, it is some of the highest form of art ever... created. I never really thought about it the way you did... in regards to the "children's concerts" being mainly for the adults. I loved your article and the example you used to illustrate... with the dog food. :-) I for one, could sit for hours straight and be moved by whatever the symphony decides to play. I haven't yet heard anything I don't like, or love profoundly. (At least not yet...I'm still "young" however...) I remember being only 9 years old when I went to see my first choral concert. (Handel's Messiah) and my family said that I sat with my eyes fixed on the chorus the entire time. I am grateful to be among the group of people who contains a great love for this music. Thank you for this video and for your insight.

I was a teacher for 37 years. After I retired I was hospitalized and quite surprised to discover a former student, now a nurse’s aide coming in to care for me (all the stuff nurse’s aides do) and even more surprising was being wheeled down to the operating room and as the mask was put on my face, the voice from the anesthesiologist said, “Hi, Mr. XXX, do you remember me? You were my teacher in high school.” Drifting off quickly I hoped that I had given them a good grade.

You are so right Dave. I have worked for over 31 years for the Netherlands Chamber Choir (librarian & PR) and all the board members worried about was getting young people to the concerts. I always said that professional choral singing is not for unexperienced young ears, unless they came across it in some way (university choruses etc.) on their own. You can't force kids and students to go listen to Orlando Lassus or Johannes Brahms. Our audiences were always 50+ with the odd exception and that was great, as that group of people is getting bigger and bigger by the years. Focus on the older generations. But no one listened to me. The most repulsive stunts were made to attract young people, all in vain.

I know I'm late to this video, but as a 21-year-old classical musician and occasionally competent composer, I think we have to tread lightly with "shoulds" and "should-nots." I agree that we shouldn't be afraid of accepting that classical music will tend to cater toward older audiences, but at the same time I don't think it's a lost cause to expose children to classical music in earnest, just as it's beneficial to expose them to all musics and all forms of art. I'm also studying to be a music educator, and I can attest to the fact that children are capable of the same appreciation of music that anyone of any age can have. I also believe that a genuine appreciation for music can come in the form of simply enjoying it; simply thinking it "sounds good." I'm kind of an artistic hedonist, I suppose, in that I see the inherent purpose of art as having fun; whatever you do to have fun with art is enough to fulfill that higher purpose. I reject the idea that we need to wait until people are older in order for them to have "finer tastes," because a) I think that can develop at any age, and b) I don't think fine tastes are necessary per se. I don't think classical music will thrive or die on the back of "serious" connoisseurs, because I think there will always be enough people to explore enough niches within classical music to keep it alive - those with fine tastes for the classic classics, for sure, but also those with extremely technical interests that don't much care about tunefulness (the likes of Babbitt), or those who only care about hearing something that they can tap their feet to, or those who want to blend classical music and other idioms together, like jazz or popular music. I also think we need to not neglect the young(er, I'm including people up to like 40 here) people who are actively composing classical music in the present day; perhaps I'm biased as a composer but I think there are many wonderful new idioms that are just starting to emerge in the 21st century.

Couldn't agree more!! I must have been born about the time you were (I'll be 63 next week), and I agree full-heartedly with your convictions. Thank you so much for expressing them so well.

Thanks for this great talk. I am 3 years from Wolf age, I feel free to add 20 years. And thanks for many great input from subscribers. My story is too long so I keep it for myself. Make music classical again ;-)

Stanley Kubrick got me hooked on classical music before I was 20.

Funny, I'm 22 and I love your videos and have accumulated quite a big collection as a result. Among my favourites are Wagner, Mahler, Webern and Carter. I must be among the anomalies.

I watch my hair graying day by day, obviously listening to your rants!

Two things I notice about the young people who actually do become interested in Classical Music: 1) They don't want modern music or 12 tone etc. They want Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, etc. 2) Young people who are interested in opera, want the classical staging that they read about or that is described in the libretto. I remember my disappointment with Wagner's Ring, the first time it was shown in full on PBS. I wanted the stuff of legend, and not three whores climbing around a hydroelectric damn. And, staging has gone down hill from there.

I just turned 40, and I Iove classical music! I just had it in my lap one day..

I went to a concert at the Kennedy Center. I was astonished at how the audience formed a top grey carpet.

I'm pushing 70 and thank Reader's Digest for my early classical bent. It's interesting to look at what was written the years of our births, I think. In my case, 1952, Shostakovich wrote the fifth string quartet. On hearing it in mid-life, I thought, yes, that was a picture of 1952, but I could only see it as so later. Who would my sons find around 1980? They did not share my good fortune, but I'm not able to answer the question.

I am a little bit older and back in my day we had music appreciation class in Junior High School and College. Being an old time radio fan I found and heard lots of classical music on famous radio shows. The Lone Ranger used the William Tell Overture for the theme, the music played after the mid program commercial break was an excerpt from Les Preludes. There is an excellent book that you would get some appreciation out of is "The Mystery of the Masked Man's Music" by Reginald M. Jones which tells of all the music used on The Lone Ranger. Young people are not espoused to classical music as much today.

Hear.Hear. Splendid stuff.

I’m only 19 and I listen to classical music because I like it

As someone even older (at 75), I agree with your ultimate conclusion, but for different reasons. Before retiring, I worked in music administration for nearly 45 years, first at San Francisco Opera, then at Chicago's Ravinia Festival, and from my earliest days in the business there was constant hand-wringing over the "aging" of the audience and the dearth of younger ticket buys to take their place. And throughout that time I heard an awful lot of cockamamie notions about how to attract that "younger" audience that has remained elusive. One excuse often used was that children were no longer being exposed to and taught about classical music in schools because of budget cuts. I'm here to tell you that supposed golden age of music education is a myth. I grew up before those legendary budget cuts, and neither the grade school nor high school I attended in the late 1950s and early 1960s even had an orchestra, only a band. My own early exposure to classical music came primarily from my private piano lessons and soundtracks of classic cartoons they televised on Saturday mornings. I was strongly attracted to classical music, and throughout my life I made time to enjoy it. I couldn't afford to attend live performances regularly, but I could buy recordings, which I've collected all my life. What WAS different in my youth was a general social consensus that even if you disliked or never listened to it, classical music was a valuable component of our culture and deserved respect. I don't think that's true anymore. After yet another brain storming session to solve the problem shortly before I retired, I also made the point that it was foolish to take for granted the seniors who comprised most of our classical audiences while madly pursuing a younger audience with dubious methods and dwindling results. And one of the main reasons seniors were dominating our classical audiences was that, for some time now, there simply have been more older people--a lot of them. As a true Baby Boomer, I have lived my life as part of "the bulge in the python" of our population, and whatever age I have been at any time tended to receive a disproportionate amount of marketers' attention. Right now that bulge might be closer to the python's tail, but we're still the primary audience for classical concerts and recordings. After us? Perhaps the deluge.

Granted this is just one lone experience, but when I was in Beijing for an orchestra show in 2017 most of the audience were families with young children. At first glance I thought wow they figured it out over there!! But as the concert went on…nope nope nope…children eating and yelling, on their phones, parents doing nothing about it. Concert ruined for those that wanted to actually listen and the musicians themselves. As a current young person now I’m grateful for the group I hope to become a part of one day…the old folk that actually want to listen! :P anyway enjoyed your talk as always!

I am 38. I recall my dad blasting Strauss’s Also sprach Zarathustra and Bach’s Toccata and Fugue BWV 565 over our living room speakers when I was around 10. I was hooked for life after that experience. I can’t think of anyone I know other than a few relatives that listen to classical music. I estimate I was probably half the age of most people at a local Christmas concert I attended several years ago.

Probably the most important record I ever received was an LP set of Mravinsky's Tchaikovsky symphonies 4&5, which my grandparents gifted me when I turned 9 or 10. No idea why they did, by the way: my grandma was a Mahalia Jackson aficionado, while my grandfather preferred Dutch schlagers. Whatever the reason, it sparked an early interest in classical music and led me to further investigations that really never stopped. To be honest, I enjoy most forms of music, but few genres possess such a depth of repertoire. Through the years, there have been so many moments of discovery. Beginning with the usual suspects, of course, but they continue to this day. I've always thought that I can face anything life can throw at me, so long as I'm able to enjoy something like the Moszkowski piano concerto (the first one!) afterward. From that early age, and through difficult times in my life, it has been my "support animal". And (from a consumer perspective, at least) it's never been better than today, where I can carry my entire collection with me on a tiny laptop (I think CDs are hateful things), augmented by the likes of Spotify and KZfaq. Regarding "oldness": I'm fifty now, and I've noticed that with age comes a greater degree of patience. I can now enjoy music that I hardly tolerated as a twenty-something. That doesn't just mean appreciating longer pieces (although, yes, I've even started listening to Brrrrruckner!) but also taking the time to observe and evaluate structures in music. With that comes a greater appreciation of material that is intellectually interesting, even when it's not always aesthetically accessible.

Your pet food analogy is pure perfection.

My love for classical music started at the age of 12 or 13 when the school's music teacher played us extracts from works like Smetana's Moldau and Händel's Water Music. Also, my older brother was into classical music and I secretly listened to his LPs, big, compelling pieces like Liszt's Les Préludes and Dvořák's New World symphony. But probably the biggest influence on my musical taste was watching movies with soundtracks by John William and Ennio Morricone. It made me love orchestral music, then and now.

Amen! Been saying this for years!

I’m 67 and you were and are 100% right!

In the mid-1960s when I was in high school then college I would read panicked articles on the "crisis in classical music" by authors who looked around in the concert hall and then glumly reported all they saw were gray-haired folk. I read essentially the same articles in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s... . I long ago concluded maybe classical music was just appreciated more by old people, more of whom were being created all the time to keep the classical music audience supply constant. I don't think there has ever been a crisis in not enough old people. I accept that I will be replaced soon enough, although that isn't entirely encouraging.

Couldn't agree more! Except perhaps for my children and grand children.

Wow, this video really makes me feel 38 years young.

Wonderful…how right you are,Dave …I bet you must have been at one of my performances at the MET …I’m 83 now and was friends with many orchestra musicians from BSO,MET,NYMPH,CITY OPERA, the whole CASALS festivals gang and others…same Class with Herb Baker at NEC in Boston…

First, or nearly the first, exposure to live opera. I was about 16 and for some reason or other I was listening to both hard bop jazz and classical including opera much to the chagrin of my mother (“wouldn’t you like to listen to Elvis?”) on my good old KLH Model 20. Opera tickets weren’t that expensive in San Francisco in those days and this was the time when all of a sudden more obscure Verdi and Rossini operas were being discovered by the major recording companies. As I recall Nabucco had just been issued. At any rate I had my well placed single orchestra ticket for La Cenerentola (only one ticket since no girl I knew was really that enthusiastic about opera). I arrived, as usual, rather early to the War Memorial. As I moved into my seat next to the only other individual in the row, I glanced over and low and behold it was Tony Randall! Well you can imagine the interesting conversation that ensured - opera, motion pictures etc etc - except NOT! I was so intimated that I never said a word to him neither before, the intermission, or after. Neither did he say a word to me. I have always wondered what we would have talked about. Oh the missed opportunities in life! Maybe I should have abandoned Monk, Blakey, Verdi and Rossini and stuck to Heartbreak Hotel . . . and by the way, those “doctors” you mentioned are actually imposters learning to play doctors from Actors Studio.

While this remains true for concert attendance, streaming is changing all this with regard to the recorded music market, because a large proportion of young people actually do listen to classical tracks on streaming services, often as part of mood or study playlists, and in that context the audience is much more balanced between different age ranges compared to concert attendance or album sales. And streaming is accounting for a larger and larger proportion of recorded music revenues, probably a majority even in classical. (One possibly confounding factor regarding album sales is that younger people may be driving the resurgence in vinyl, which has surpassed CDs and downloads in unit sales and is growing very quickly.) One key difference is that other than possibly paying a monthly fee for the streaming service overall (or not even that, if they put up with ads), they don’t have to spend any money to listen, eliminating the need for disposable income, and since they listen while studying, working, or doing other activities, they don’t need a lot of free time, either. Since they’re not hardcore into classical music or knowledgeable about it, and aren’t about to sit down and listen to whole albums, the track selection and marketing of the labels makes more sense, to focus on easily accessible short tracks that stand on their own and fit into cross-genre playlists, especially if played by appealing and memorable artists who play a wide range of popular crossover music. (Piano Guys, Lindsey Stirling, Hauser/Two Cellos, Andrea Bocelli, etc., but also more traditional performers, like Yo-Yo Ma.) Another factor that gets ignored is movie music and other classical-adjacent genres, which young people may listen to even more of. While orchestras recognize this with their movie nights, I’ve always wondered why the Star Wars suite, for instance, hasn’t entered the standard repertoire, to be mixed into ordinary subscription concerts alongside Carmen, Peer Gynt, The Firebird, Synfonie Fantastique, The Planets, and all the rest. Same with maybe music by Morricone or from Disney movies or whatever. (Recognizing that some movie music doesn’t work as well out of context or stand on its own as valuable music compared to other movie music.) Young people seem pretty open to listening to some classical music, on their terms and alongside their other music. Lacking time and money, and being easily bored, it’s true that in the US at least they are outside the core concert going/album-buying classical audience, but streaming is making those things less and less important overall than they used to be.

Well thought out & well said 👍

One entry point into classical music for me (at 16) was the double-record gatefold issue of the soundtrack to "Star Wars" soundtrack, with extensive notes by John Williams on how he assigned themes to the major characters, and discussions of orchestration and following the action--I recall being fascinated at the first appearance of ObiWan's theme on horns, and its reappearance later in an intense sequence on the driving trombones. Next was to be rocked by a Christmas gift from my dad to my sister of Ozawa's Mahler 1 on DG. Then, by age 22, Karajan's Sibelius 4 and 6, found secondhand in a dusty shop in NYC. To this day, I steer away from suites and light music because my first encounters (I think) got into the big arguments and the nuts and bolts of how large-scale music works. I'm 58. 60, never.

Missed it. Happy birthday David !

I think that we miss dancing to classical music and performing it in church. Church music doesn't have to be complicated like Messiaen. It could be simple and poignant like Palestrina. Love that Palestrina. I've got almost ten years on you, David. Love that Palestrina.

An interesting point of view. Of course, it's true that there are always more potential seniors down the line. However, I have often read posts on audiophile sites like Audiogon, which is overwhelmingly populated by well- heeled older folks. When the subject of record collections come up, it seems like the majority of them say "classic rock...classic rock...classic rock with a smattering of jazz...classic rock with a bit of John Williams...and oh yeah...classic rock." And the older you get, the harder it is to change.

Im a blue collar worker with no musical education. I literally have no one to talk classical with. These videos are the biggest interaction i have with music fans.

This chat and the responses I read here are revelatory. As an older person who was in single-digit age when starting in classical music, I now lament the audience composition at the many concerts and operas I attend (or attended, rather, pre-Covid). However, I sincerely believe that enthusiasts and programming decision makers of my generation feel that once the white and gray are gone, there will be no replacements to come. What we see at a concert, the only time we get a reality check on classical cohorts, has not been reassuring. But, as David stated in this chat and in the comments that followed, this fear might be unwarranted. It might simply be that the live concert/opera venue structure is off-putting: the formality, the elder atmosphere, and the trappings of an artificial social gathering. Of course, now, we're seeing a new repellent, something no one wanted, old or young. I hope that media executives can figure out there are plenty of kindred spirits to come, even after our current decade dispenser runs out.

I think this is right on the money - no pun intended. There are some of us odd ducks that fell in love with classical music from a young age, but as people get older, assuming they are curious and interested in more refined things in life, subscribing to a symphony concert series or opera seats is a no brainer. We'll see how the current generation's interests evolve, though I have a feeling the audience for classical music will probably remain relatively small and yes, probably be of the aged variety.

I remember lightly dabbling in classical music in my late teens/early 20s. After buying a cassette of John Williams conducting sci-fi music, I delved into my father's Readers Digest classical excerpt box, and also listened to his record of Gershwin conducted by Steinberg. My friend picked up a couple of second-hand records of Shostakovich (I think). But there was no easy way to systemically continue this exploration, and so my interest fell off until I reconnected in my 30s. It must be so much easier now for young people to pursue an interest in classical music, but I worry that everything being available on KZfaq means the specialness will be lost. Of course, that problem applies to every other kind of music too. EDIT: I should add, my parents were in a musical society and I was made to take piano lessons, so there was certainly some childhood grounding there.

Back in the 80s, I was at Record Hunter in uptown Manhattan flipping through their CDs. An elderly salesman approached me, looked at what I held in my hand, and told me that I was too young to listen to Bruckner. I was in my mid 20's.

Dave--you are a mere child--I just turned 72--belated happy birthday--I spent my 60th in San Francisco on a Zeppelin!

The leading chamber music organisation in my city put something out on social media saying that they were looking for young people to live tweet from concerts. I told them I thought it was the stupidest idea I'd ever heard and that if someone was live tweeting next to me in every concert I would cancel my subscription.

I turned 60 this January and in my mind I am around 25, which was when I started "adulting", after graduating from Graduate school. I have no children which has allowed me to remain a child without transitioning into a parent. I was raised by my father and he was a movie person instead of musical but he encouraged my early love of music and when I turned 10 he got me subscriptions to Rolling Stone and Creem magazine. (He was a mailman so he was big on things that were delivered regularly in the mail - lol.) As I have often commented, I do think KZfaq and streaming is allowing music lovers of all ages to deep there toes into all kinds of music and hoepfully later take the plunge into being huge fans and supporters. I still believe this is a wonderful time to be a music lover. My 10 year old self would never been able to imagine that basically anything she wanted to listen to at any time was at her fingertips and that she could have the opportunity to find groups of like minded people all over the world to chat with about love of music.

I’m 16 and I’m proud to say I have been a fan of classical music since I’m like 2 I’m not just in that genre but Mozart was my introduction to music (I think) but Beethoven is my favourite

I went to hear Trifonov play Die Kunst der Fuge. I was surprised: The audience was not particularly old - all age groups were more or less equally represented except there were only a few young kids. But you’re right, usually the average age at a classical concert is a higher than at the cinema, especially at chamber music concerts. And that’s probably also the case with people frequenting classical music forums on the internet. But since the majority of young people become older, there probably is hope for classical music.

"Peter and the Wolf" scared me to death when I was a child.The wolf theme was just so haunting. But well meaning parents, aunts and uncles thought it was the ideal piece for children. My own child played the trumpet in the school band. But as soon as he was left to his own devices, he sold his trumpet. And as far as I know, has no interest in classical music. But, I'll never reproach myself for the lessons we paid for because I'm convinced it did wonders for his developing brain- especially the mathematical faculty.

I take your points, but my own experience is radically different. I came to classical music in my early 20's via a college music appreciation class, was instantly bitten by the bug, so to speak, and have gone on to spend decades listening to classical music and buying thousands of classical CDs. I am also literally the only person I have ever known outside of the Internet who enjoys and/or really knows anything about classical music, regardless of their age. (And I know a good number of musicians and hardcore music fans/collectors.) Based on this sample of one :) it seems to me that you can just as easily find or create a classical fan with disposable income among the young.

I just want to point out that Film Music a la Hans Zimmer, Howard Shore & John Williams brought me to Classical Music. The tapestry of colour, melody and emotion that is spun is so much richer than any in pop or rock music, therefore much more satisfying... I firmly believe age is just a number, but I'm in my late '20 - though feeling like I'm in my early '20..

Hi David, what do you think about Alma Deutscher and other "child prodigies" of todays classical music?

"Youth is a kind of infirmity." - James Gould Cozzens

It’s a bit sad to be 37 as I am, go to classical concerts, and still feel like I’m the youngest person in attendance. Somehow my primary doctor is actually younger than me, which is just profoundly depressing.

I enjoy going to Cleveland Orchestra concerts, and usually sit in the cheap seats upstairs. There, I'm often surrounded by teens and college students who are enthusiastic and appreciative listeners. I have to say that they're better neighbors than the old farts downstairs closest to the orchestra. Granted, some are from next door, at the Cleveland Institute of Music, but others are not. I find myself invigorated by being with them, instead of drawn down by the geriatric sourpusses who look like me and smell like Maalox.

LOL. I'm 69 years old, and I've been listening to classical music since my college years. I've always been considered a mature person by my friends, even when I was young, and like you said classical music requires maturity, spare time, and a taste for the finer things in life. Like you said, classical music is for adults, not children.

Thanks!

43 here. Couldn’t agree more. I’ve attended concerts in several countries and the audience is always made of young students and elder listeners. Record labels are delusional trying to wrap classical music albums in youthful foil - the same old folks are buying or streaming them. Youngsters who stream background music don’t care about foxy young Asian musicians in minimal attire. They almost never look at the covers, because of the playlist logic. Those shitty recital-like albums are completely useless to captivate new audiences, but musicians themselves are very fond of them. They now got rid of composers and receive top billing.

Sorry, a video I'm catching up with. I completely agree with you. As a kid I'd pick up beautiful melodies incidentally from school: Tchaikovsky ballet suites, Peter and the Wolf, Mozart's Symph 40, Britten's YP Guide, VW's Greensleeves. I loved them at the time and they must have been stored away in the back of my mind for decades, until eventually after being into loads of other music I really started exploring 'classical' music seriously in the early 90s and I had these childhood memories to draw on in doing that. If I'd heard Einaudi (jeez) in the early 70s I can't imagine my reaction to classical music being as enthusiastic for want of a better word.

David, you are very familiar with our almighty BBC promenade concerts here in the UK: concerts every night over a matter of months, with a world wide audience.... it is inhabited for the main part with young people! everywhere. Years ago when I was young, at a performance of the Bach magnificat, the conductor turned to the audience and asked "can you all sing it?" they shouted 'yes', and he said "go on then" and we did.... we all sang with the choir and it was fantastic.

Hated classical music as a little kid, only because I was supposed to. But I started liking classical music when I was around 17 or 18 because I am an autist. I am a millennial. If someone is a millennial autist it is probably inevitable they will like classical music before they are 30 or 40.

Two things: - A now long-ago survey (circa 2000) by a respectable outfit found that something like two-thirds of disposal income in the US was controlled by people over 62. "High art," including classical music, is one of the few components of Western culture/entertainment that caters to older people. And older people are living longer. So, when the classical audience, median age 50- or 60-something, has most of the money and will be around, mostly mobile and sentient, for several more decades, what's the hair-on-fire emergency? - Thanks to streaming, KZfaq and other post-CD music media, more and more young people (yoots, as Joe Pesci would say) are grazing through all kinds of music, classical very much included. When I've shared the air of a college radio station, I've often been surprised at what the kids were listening to and programming. It reminds me of the late 1960s and early '70s, when a lot of us reared on rock and soul discovered classical music alongside other "new" (to us) genres.

Music business people, don't listen to David! I wanna keep going to concerts for cheap! 😅 In all seriousness, I think classical music is on the rise as a sort of global niche among young people. Pandering doesn't help with that, but the business shouldn't close itself off either.

This video made me curious about statistical info both about orchestra popularity and age of audience over time. I found the data to be inconclusive. Certainly audiences are generally old--NY philharmonic reported a median age of 57 in 2020. although a Times article of that year pointed out that older videos seem to suggest a similar age range for the late 20th c (audiences have not gotten older). Similarly, there is no clear evidence that orchestra music is getting less popular. League of American orchestras reported 1224 orchestras in the US in 2014, Cause IQ reported that that number had jumped to over 1700 in 2022. Streaming services appear to have made classical music more popular especially among younger listeners (probably because of easier access), and especially during the pandemic.

Somebody once said that theatre has been dying for 4000 years. In theatre as in Classical music the young will be interested in both...when they are no longer young. It is too good for the young. I used to think [at 21] that the last movement of Das Lied von der Erde was boring.

Sorry I missed your sixtieth birthday celebrations. (For the record, I'm old enough to be your father, so now the secret's out). Those responsible for running the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra have also decided it's time to "liven things up" and cater for the younger set so we are going to start seeing (and hearing) concerts that feature "lighter" fare, where current hits are being sung by well-known local artists or choirs, accompanied by the full NZSO. Ugh! What that means, of course, is that we have fewer concerts of what I consider to be worthwhile music - not that we are getting anything that I would call "adventurous" any more. The last time the orchestra played Suk's "Asrael" symphony, for example, was in the 1980s - or it might have been even earlier?

I have seen youtube videos of Leonard Bernsteins young people's concerts. The parents look riveted and the kids( some ridiculously young) look like they would rather be any where else.

Dave, I think you forgot to do a thumbnail for this video.