Our guest today is Margaret Wheatley. Margaret, or Meg has worked globally in various roles since 1966, such as a speaker, teacher, community worker, consultant, advisor, and formal leader. She believes that leaders must evoke people’s generosity, creativity, and community in a world that she feels is tearing us apart. A deep understanding of Systems Theory underpins her work and she has written nine books, including the Leadership and the New Science, her recent The Warrior’s Songline as well as the recently updated 'Who do We choose to be' Facing reality / Claiming Leadership / Restoring Sanity, the topic of our discussion today, which for me is an inspirational book on not only how to be a sane and compassionate leader in times of crisis and likely collapse but also for anyone who would like to embrace a more pragmatic version of hope that is based on action, courage, presence and responsibility rather than wishful thinking.