Oh, no! I apologize for the skewed angle from which I mentioned this subculture. I realize now I was confusing it with the anime depictions of young girls which shares the name and most definitely appeals to a… different kind of audience. I hope you don’t mind if I pin your comment, as I feel it has valuable and illuminating information!

What do you mean by "pedophilic book"? Do you mean the book is written by a pedophile, or that it is about a woman pedophile? I agree it is the 2nd, but definitely not the first.

I don't understand this objection. Isn't lolicon a real thing? Is that somehow separate from Lolita "culture"?

@@Jonjzi Yes. Lolicon (which stands for lolita conplex, a phrase that describes someone with a sexual fixation of young/young looking girls) is the depiction of young/young looking characters in a sexualized light. The Lolita fashion culture is more akin to porcelain dolls in aesthetic, and as the previous commented mentioned, not explicitly sexual.

@@user-qh7bd3mc4s If that's the case, why is the fashion style called "lolita" in the first place?

I’m really happy that me talking about this vile book can help others! I think it’s a conversation that needs to happen more often (in a safe way of course) to dispel so much of the emotional baggage that comes with it. My experience was being SA’d as a kid by a priest, and the dynamic (along with the revolting questions around pleasure vs. pain within abuse) was very similar, and I think Tampa is the only work I’ve read that has fully shed light on this issue in such a tantalizing way.

@@originaluseername Um... what?

Thank you so much for providing all of this helpful context! I think of particular note, for me, was how obvious it was to me that Humbert Humbert was meant to be a disgusting monster. I myself didn’t get any of the more sympathetic notes many others claimed to have perceived while reading. I wonder how much marketing and social norms influence these perceptions?

@@PlaguedbyVisions You're welcome! And I agree, I never got as to why anyone sympathized with him when it's very clear he's a monster. The only answer must be the way he manipulated his words so thoroughly and the language used distracted away from the horrific nature of what he's done. Even when it's so clear what he's done is disgusting. It only gets more hollowing when you're reading it or rereading it, knowing Delores died during childbirth and he's flipping so much of what he did to her, a child he so brutally harmed, onto her, and she isn't there to defend herself. It's saddening and angering knowing even in death, he's still victimizing her. That's a good question - one of Nabokov's Big Nos when publishing it was he did not want a girl on the cover, I can't remember what exactly the first cover was but I know that over the years there has been many different ones. But here is the quote of what he originally wanted: “I want pure colors, melting clouds, accurately drawn details, a sunburst above a receding road with the light reflected in furrows and ruts, after rain. And no girls.” and obviously as we know, his wishes have not been respected after some time because they have used girls on different editions. I'm sorry for the ramble, to the point, I think it had a lot to do with it. The Vanity Fair blurb is one that sticks out to me a lot and makes me think the person who wrote it must not have even cracked open the book. And because of the time Lolita was written in, when these things weren't viewed as they are now and it was significantly easier to blame a child for "seducing" their abuser - it somehow still has stuck around, with the perception of this novel due to some readers sympathizing with HH, which I find quite disturbing.

Babe, wake up! WAKE UP! Babe? Babe?! Oh, God… OH, GOD…

Thank you, Pax!

I agree I just love all you great booktubers

I’ll agree, End of Alice seemed like the most condemning and genre-like of them all! It had shortcomings for me compared to the other two, but what I did appreciate was the dedication to exploring this taboo within an inch of its life.

Thanks, Mr. Buff Pika! You are my fitness inspiration. 😂 This book sounds absolutely harrowing.

@@PlaguedbyVisions i'm honored to inspire gains!

Thank you so much! Such kind words I am unworthy of. ❤️🥹

You don't think such flattery is a little patronizing? I don't know if it is, but if someone told me that I would tell them they're presumptuous about me.

@@StopFear Honestly all I think of is just thousands of people taking time out of their busy lives to give a shit about what I have to say and leave beautiful and kind comments like this one. I would never think anything other than how incredible it is that people care about my words enough to even compliment them. It is a privilege not everyone enjoys.

Welcome to the channel! Your kind words are truly appreciated.

Their name is Twuan.

Thank you so much! Truly appreciate the kind words.

Thank you so much! Glad this video is finding appreciation. It was difficult finding sensible words to cover these titles.

Can I ask you a question. Are you a man or a woman. When I read this book and then read reviews about it I think I observed a very weird thing in the tone of the reviewers which changed a lot depending on who the reviewer was. I noticed that mostly women expressed greater shock at it, but not male reviewers as much. I think the reason this occurs is because women cannot relate to the book because as women they ( I hope) cannot identify with the insane woman in the book. However if you are a man who is reading Tampa then you may identify yourself with the victim character, BUT I suspect that when males put themselves into the place of the victim they don't always see themselves as the victim. Do you see what I mean? I am surprised that a number of reviews I saw do not acknowledge this possibly inherent difference of interpretation. Mainly I think this is because in society there is a phenomenon of males who are in their teens and who are coming of age viewing older women as a fantasy. Women readers probably would not find this relatable.

@@StopFear I'm a woman! I think you're onto something honestly. I personally (thank god) cannot relate to this woman whatsoever, infact I more so relate to the main victim boy. Not to get too personal but I was involved in a similar situation at 14. It's very interesting that you say this though as in the book if I recall the teacher explicitly details the fact that the boys she would do this to would think about it for years to come, and it would keep them awake at night, almost nudging at the idea of traumatizing them. I do wonder though how no one has seen the the different in tone between reviews though

Thank you so much, Dave! I think I’m taking an extended break from books of this nature, but I’ve definitely heard enough about My Dark Vanessa to make me want to seek it out in the future. I don’t know how helpful or grounded my lofty claims about art of this kind were, but it’s always good to keep trying to find the right words!

Yes! The ONLY appropriate shirt for a video like this. Thank you for watching!

It hasn’t really been mounting pressure on me! Worry not. But I appreciate the concern, and I’m glad you enjoyed the video! “If there’s a safe place to be challenged, it’s fiction.” Beautifully said!

❤

Appreciate it. 🙏🏽❤️

My Burger King crown!

Aw, thank you so much for subscribing to my weird little channel :)

@@PlaguedbyVisions Thank you for making such great stuff. It's refreshing to see really repulsive, transgressive works given respect rather than being dismissed as 'why would someone want to read that!?'

You must read Lolita in regard to Puzzles. Nabokov inserts Puzzles into all of his works.❤

I appreciate your concern! I truly do, and I’m glad I started this video talking about my poor handle on the intensity of language, because it has apparently happened again. 😂 Of course, I assure you, all my reading is done voluntarily and leisurely, and my engagement with literature of this kind only came about in a healthy enough headspace to be able to face it in the first place. I reiterate, however, that your sincere concern is quite touching, and I thank you once more for it!

Let the Right One In and The Treatment don't glorify sexual abuse of children, quite the opposite, it is portrayed as horrific. I appreciate that a lot of people would rather avoid stories involving this subject. It also amazes me that authors like Mo Hayder are able to write what they do, she did a lot of research, and interviews.

Yes, absolutely! Inhabiting this transgressive headspace is this dangerous artistic endeavor, I find, and one has to be at least in awe of such a feat. Thank you so much for watching!

Cheers, thank you, John! Glad to have embarked you on a journey of disturbing exploration. Thanks for reminding me of 1guy1jar, too! 😑

Thank you so much, Kevin! Tampa necessitates an open and healthy mood. Be warned!

@@PlaguedbyVisions From what you said about "Tampa"...I wished I was back in school!!! 😂 I graduated in '78...and nothing like you described ever happened...to me anyway!!! 🤣

Oh, stop it, Olly! I really look forward to your thoughts on End of Alice. These things are easier when you’re not the only one suffering. Your point was probably that I’m looking BUFF as FUCK.

@@PlaguedbyVisions I think you're right!

Oh, thank you so so much. 💕 It’s difficult watching my old videos, but new comments always touch my heart. ☺️

I made it through it last year, and it was certainly the crowning jewel of unpalatable text back then! Congrats on making it through!

Thank you so much for watching, Michelle! No, I have NOT read My Dark Vanessa, but it certainly seems like it’s the next step in this very important conversation!

Yes, I would say voice is Nutting’s strongest skill! She can fully inhabit these head spaces in a proximate and disconcerting way. I’d be curious to read more by her, actually!

I’m so sorry! Just put on some Sex Pistols and try to forget about it. 😉

@@PlaguedbyVisions 🤣

Cheers, John! Thanks as always for the support and kind words. ❤

Indeed, Chareads had wonderful coverage and commentary on how this particular take was popularized amongst young girls themselves who wanted to feel “edgy” and “mature” by reading Lolita and championing the little girl as autonomous and rebellious. It is frightening to think of how this interpretation could damage so many social perceptions and understandings! Haha, I think I meant Nabokov chiseled at the wall to broaden a discussion that was painfully absent before his work.

I really have to check out that podcast! I can’t believe I didn’t listen to it before this video.

Agreed, Seamus!

Wuthering Heights is one of my favorite novels of all time! Okay, maybe I SHOULD do a video at least on that one haha. Thank you so much!

I'd be interested in his thoughts on that too. For me it seemed more depressing than disturbing: let's watch the main character get gaslit over and over 😬

@@CiardisInferno99 yeah….as a victim of grooming/SA myself it was disturbing and comforting at the same time as weird as that is to say. It made me feel like my reactions to the situation were more grounded than I thought.

@@Backgroundcow I'm so sorry that happened to you. The character's perspective did feel realistic/understandable, and I respect the book for that; and it's definitely a good thing if it gives some real-world survivors a voice.

I’ve heard of that from other Booktubers. If you believe it is an equally important addition to this conversation as the books I covered here, I’m definitely inclined to give it a try!

@@PlaguedbyVisions the author wrote the book after reading Lolita and understanding that even though it’s narrator in unreliable, the victim’s voice and struggles should be the focus. she felt that the book was too misconstrued by many readers

I’ve had that podcast recommended quite a few times! I think, for me, the absence of context really didn’t help in any way since it’s impossible to not absorb at least some of it by osmosis. Now I find that I really do want to read more into it!

It’s quite alright! There was never much speculation beyond just people wondering why I wouldn’t read such titles and wondering if there was a personal connection. I mean, they were right lol. Covering classics is the most disturbing part of Booktube! But thank you for the encouragement. ❤️ And I do feel that my relationship to literature has changed. I’ve definitely mastered detachment! 😂

I empathize greatly.

Thank you so much! I’m so glad that you appreciated what I tried to do in this video. That is an incredible point about the intent behind voice, and it makes me think that there’s a stronger connection there between these works and Hogg: Humbert aims to convince and rationalize, Celeste seeks to relish, flatter, and arouse; and now in Hogg, we get the cold, detached, inhuman point of a silent observer. So many strands of thought to explore there!

I have not heard of this, but the writing of Anais Nin is equally troubling, I feel.

Also? “Pornography made for no one” is a great turn of phrase.

I don’t feel like I got that much more insight into Lolita by reading it, and that is… really bizarre.

@@PlaguedbyVisions that is a really interesting point. I guess there’s so much cultural awareness that that kind of makes sense. And it gives me a pass on forcing myself to read it, so I’ll take it!

Yes, the cover of Tampa is really something. I recently met a guy who was abused by his babysitter when he was 12. I'd never had a conversation with someone like that, and he was so willing to discuss his reactions to the abuse and how it affected him over the years. He said he never felt 'dirty' about it until he got a little older and people told him he should feel dirty about it, that it was a horrible thing. Apparently, the babysitter (who had been 18 at the time) was long gone to wherever when he revealed the abuse. He is an alcoholic and substance abuser now. He's a brilliant writer but does not pursue it, and mainly works cleaning up the trash or as a barback at dive bars. . Who knows how much the abuse has to do with his self-destructive tendencies. He has very few male friends but many female friends. I could go on and on, but I will just say it was one of the most fascinating conversations I've ever had. He is almost 40 now.

Daniel! Of all videos where I thought you’d recognize some of the titles, this one was not in my Bingo card. 😂 In full agreement with you: Even as a gay bloke in his late 20s, there is… the language, voice, and style of such “fantasies” that Nutting so devilishly uses to surprising effect. I mean, I can recall feeling attraction towards some male teachers I found handsome as a teen, but in that very awkward, personal adolescent way that so tragically sees itself exploited by abusers so often. I think the fact that Nutting explores these moral sinkholes so expertly and unflinchingly makes her an incredible writer indeed!

I appreciate that! Thank you. 🙏❤️

We’ll all meet up in Jonestown.

@@PlaguedbyVisions lol just saw that. I just started working for Nike and my horrible thought was do they have Heaven's Gate edition products...of course I kept that to myself. Sick and inappropriate dark humor to deal with tragedy. In any case, just ordered Poking Holes and Tampa. Will receive them next Thursday.

Thank you so much for the support! 😭🙏🏽

I learned through Cartoon Network and horror movies!

Wow, what a nuanced and interesting presentation! THank you :D

I guess I did not! Haha. Welcome to the channel! Thank you so much for watching and for the kind words. :)

That sounds like a fairly well-rounded response to have to it, haha!

@@PlaguedbyVisionsWell the book is like a sucker punch to the face. And it left me thinking about it for days.

100% agreed. I initially DNF’d it because it was WAY too daring. Few books have made me react that way!

@@PlaguedbyVisions Good for a second I was worried you were going to renounce me or something

@@dornravlin What?! Of course not! I only LOOK like an a-hole but I try to be nice. 🤣🤣🤣 Jk, but yeah you’re good! Your comment had absolutely nothing to it that struck me the wrong way at all.

Thank you so much for your offering of context! Sincerely, reading this was very eye-opening, and I agree that historical context can be an important element-however, I don’t think I described this as “disconcerting” in an accusatory fashion haha. It’s not an expectation of the author to “do better” or whatever, simply me expressing my own subject and affective experience reading this work, which is what my reviews always are!

Yes, I think that is the single most disgusting and powerful revelation about Lolita: That even after abusive lust can drive someone to monstrousness, it can just as quickly abandon one and leave them spent, and the entirety of written tradition is based on this disconcerting notion…

This is one of the main themes in Tiger, Tiger by Margaux Fragoso. It was a harrowing read.

I believe she did it before her arrest, but still, the fact that her photoshoot got ANY press coverage… 🤢🤢🤢

Hahaha, I love that you absolutely understood what the point of the book is. Of course it’s to make you angry about all these things! Just remember women have to read about the same victimization of women-in college assigned classics, in the culture, in their homes, EVERYWHERE! I’m sure the world is going to be fine with a little book in it called Tampa by comparison. 😂

@PlaguedbyVisions idk how to explain it better, but the main character felt like a pervert in a trenchcoat rather than a woman doing evil things, if that makes sense - one dimensional maybe? Like with lolita, I really enjoyed how flowery the language was because when those dark parts hit, it was jarring and impactful. Tampa's lead (forgot her name) was just constantly "how do I groom the child, I want to diddle the child," etc etc etc. Exhausting and repetitive. I get the victimisation of women thing, it's why I stay away from certain genres or media, but it doesn't feel like the tables have really been flipped when the female character is so lacklustre

@abbadonne8342 I think it shows something about engagement with literature when “I want to diddle a child” as a resounding statement doesn’t even faze you. Trust me, that’s the cruel humor Tampa is playing with.

Agree with you I finished Tampa and you're not missing out Celeste the MC felt like a cardboard cutout of a person, if that cardboard was a sex offender As a woman 🙂 i didn't see the humor in it, wish I'd DNF'd it

THANK YOU. I’ve thought about it recently in relation to child predators, and how gross it is to prominently gender the victims, when all victims are just children, their gender as relevant as their height, hair color, etc.

@PlaguedbyVisions I've read the book since I've commented. Great book, but wow, sick stuff. I've had men argue with me on how men can not be preyed on by women. Really rocks my brain.

Get better at Spanish than me as revenge!