I mean, the wilderness IS lifted compared to standard outbacks (which already have really good clearance for a crossover to begin with). The point of the wilderness to me is it comes pre-equipped with a lot of the lightweight mods that soft roaders might be interested in, tires, lift, recovery points, etc. I think the subaru engineers did a really, really solid job of designing a vehicle with significant capability that retains car-like driveability, making major alterations risks throwing off the balance that was struck. If what the wilderness offers out of the box isn't enough, you might want to consider that you may be better suited to something like a 4runner. The main softroading mod that I think the wilderness is missing out of the box is underbody protection. And to be fair it is something that Subaru was optioning up until the Ukraine war disrupted supply chains

This is the most honest answer I have ever heard about this topic on KZfaq. More people need to see this & think critically before making vehicle upgrade decisions. So true that many are doing upgrades just to follow along with the hype. Well done with the video, sir!

Thanks for making this Josh. After watching loads of youtube videos (yours included) I decided to purchase a 22 Subaru OBW last July and held off on doing any kind of modifications and kept it stock. I'm now set on upgrading wheels and tires and maybe some other lite upgrades. I appreciate you making these kinds of vids, helps someone like me to really think about what I need and don't need to do to my OBW.

I just got my 2024 Outback Wilderness. Love it just the way it is. It's my road trip car, and car camping ride.

Thanks for your honesty. I wish you the best with your move save travels.

Thank you for making this video. I think you addressed all the necessary information and how it affects the car. I added the Rallitek 1.5” lift with springs to help with the sag when loaded up. Wheel and tires were also changed, which I love, but my MPG has definitely taken a hit.

Thanks for this video. It's helpful to hear from people who've been there and done that on why it's not always great to go there and do that. 🙂 On all of the things you did to modify your Outback, I'll say that there are three kinds of people in the world: those who love the arts, those who love the sciences, and those who love both. I think this last group is among the rarest. Being a photographer and videographer, I dare say you're a member of this third community. While we find some of the greatest joy in life because we indulge our interests in all the universe has to offer, we also tend to suffer from GAS--gear acquisition syndrome. We know that we need specially engineered tools, whether we make them ourselves or buy them from others, in order to carry out specific steps in processes that let us create our art. This means constantly experimenting and buying new bits and bobs (which are often unavoidably expensive, since they have to serve purposes in both art and science) to make what we imagine a reality. All that's to say that, like it or not, you're probably going to struggle with GAS the rest of your life. But, at least your legacy will be a body of work by which to be remembered. So, welcome to leaving your mark on the world! 😊

Great Video Josh, you speak allot of sense with the knowledge you have. 👍

great video thanks, I am a new subaru wilderness owner actually just picked it up 4 hours ago a 2024 and I love it I am pretty much going to keep it stock but might do wheels and tires later. I have had rock crawlers and jeep wrangle and in the early days a toyota land cruiser. I picked this subaru so i can still do light off roading, I love camping and hiking but comfort too now that I am a old geezer LOL, and the wilderness fits the bill like you said just got to know its limitations. Keep the videos coming love them I am a new subscriber. Enjoy tucson I have friends down there and its beautiful there great place for outdoors stuff.

Welcome to Az! Thank for the honest review. Still deciding on a Wilderness, building an older Dodge 4x4 truck or getting a used but newer Nissan, Toyota or Ford 4x4 midsize platform. I am up at edge of the Tonto National Forest so maybe I see you sometime. Thanks again for sharing!

Solid commentary; appreciate it. I’ve got the Ironman on a 2020 Foz so that I get a bit more clearance for some lighter West Texas back country. I was very pleased with it and have 10.5 clearance through the centerline. That said, to your point, it’s a tire game first and everything else secondary. Problem for me is that I can’t find LT’s w/ a 10 ply rating and that’s the biggest weakness on the build for my use-case. Cheers,

Your the only one saying it! And it’s so true. I literally installed 225/60R18 Falken Wildpeak Trails today! Stock onyx size on oem wheels. All 5. Because the stock tires are not great at anything but ok at everything. Other than that I’m staying stock. Oh I did put Primitive skids package on. Bought the car to use for daily dad duties. And for going to my pew pew matches. They are usually off the beaten path. Wanted the capability without sacrificing road comforts. I have the Jeep for that. If you can only have one car, for all the things, then a 1/2ton truck can tow, off road, and do the daily duties. My situation was different. I have the dually diesel for towing. The Jeep for heavier off road days, and now the Outback for the day to day and the trips between the others. Great channel! Great video! 👍 👍

*I saw that 5" lift from Anderson Fabrication Designs (AFD) and it was NUTS!! Super Overkill to me. One thing that most Outback owners need to know is the more lift you do the more stress you put on the axles.*

Great video!

There's nothing wrong with using a spacer lift on a Subaru. One of the biggest reasons for using suspension lifts is to get more travel which even you yourself explained is very limited on Subarus. A stiffer spring rate may be right for those carrying heavy stuff with their Subie or towing a small trailer of some sort. But otherwise, ditching OEM suspension presents new challenges. And ironman lifts are fine I guess, but they're probably the worst possible option out there. They're cheap for a reason. I've physically seen severe bushing failure in the rears which causes massive sag (I've seen it in as little as 6 months.) The average person also doesn't have the know-how to dial in, maintain, or rebuild a coilover suspension. The majority of Subaru owners should be using spacer lifts.

Gawd, Josh! lol 😀 That intro!

Amazingly honest and fantastic reviews based on your experiences!!! Loving it!!!! Thank you so much for such a nice clip! I would only get another set of wheels with tires for winter use and skid plates. What would you recommend for RTT set up?

We just bought a 2023 OB Wilderness and one of the biggest draws was how capable and great it looked from the factory. All we really need to do is accessorize. Crossbarrs, ski rack, tint windows. I am looking at getting a Yakima Lock n Load Platform roof rack because we drive across country at least once a year at go to the outer banks. When we're at the beach we drive onto the beach with our stuff so I want to be able to keep a decent sized cooler, canopy, etc.and put all of our cargo on the roof when we drive across county so we have the interior room for our family of 4 and our two medium sized dogs. I also Kayak fish, so I'll use the OB to haul that. I'll eventually get a 5th gen 4runner to modify, but I love the OBW stock, it's amazing.

24 outback wildness -i'm doing a 2in lift - just to make it a tad easier for me to get in and out of

Thanks!

Thanks for this. I got a 2024 OBW yesterday and thought about lifting it but TBH it would mostly be for snow so I'm probably better with just getting a Torq locker and snow tires.

Hey Josh, love your channel, great content and info. I agree with you that lifting an outback is overkill in most cases. I have a 23 wilderness and just added rallitek skid plates and know I want to add larger tires ( 245’s KO’s) what is the best set up tire / wheel set up with least amount of modifications. I here that some set ups will rub.

Movin to Tucson, eh? It'll be good to see you around town and out in the dirt!

Thanks for the honesty. I was considering lifting my OBW, but purely for cosmetic reasons. I'm still waffling on it, but it's nice to hear it clearly stated that there is practically zero performance-based reason to do it. I kinda suspected as much, but your experience with it helps. Much appreciated.

The only thing I did was upgrade my tires. I did think about a lift at first but I don’t plan on going into the areas jeeps or 4Runners go. I do get muddy though. I have had water come over my hood once.

Great information coming from somebody who has lived it. Most people won’t admit they wasted money on their build. Good luck in Tucson. Better get the garage air conditioned there.

Hi Josh, i have a long list of places that i want to visit in the southwest (like white pocket, cathedral valley, canyons in grand staircase-escalante, ah-she-sle-pah just to name a few), based on your experience exploring the area would you say stock OBW can make it there or something like a 4runner/wrangler would be required? Thank you in advance.

OBW is great car as a stock vehicle. I would add skid plates and rocker panel or nerf bar to make sure that no damage off road. Modifying lift/suspension means unexpected ride experience (good or bad depends upon your expectations). For me, I needed a proper 4WD with locker experience so I sold OBW w/o mods and added extra few 1000 dollars to get a proper 4x4 with lockers vehicle. It is worth it. Full warranty and great experience. I wouldn't modify OBW as it is a great vehicle as a stock.

Thanks so much for the video. Just subscribed to the channel. The only reason I want to possibly alter the suspension is due to payload (roof and cargo) to prevent rear sag. Is overload suspension essentially the same as a lift? It likely will alter the factory perfection, correct?

I'm just starting to watch this video. I haven't heard the opinion yet. I'm going to state at the outset that I have a 22 Outback Wilderness, and I think the number one mod, before you do ANYTHING else, assuming you even need this, is new wheels and tires. I wouldn't even consider a lift, until I put on 245's with a wider rim and reassessed. and this is what I actually did. I have Falken Trail AT's in the 245/65/17 NON LT crossover version (this size has two choices) wrapped around a 40MM offset (you gotta do the offset close to right to keep a wider tire centered in the well) Motegi MR139 7.5X17. On paper this gives me a half inch more clearance (inch taller tire), but out in the world this gives me 3/4" improvement in overall car height and clearance, because the stock tires had a design that sags a bit on load, and the Falkens sag much less. So I have the half inch better spec, and a stiffer sidewall giving me a bit more too. And 3/4" may not seem like much. But honestly on top of my factory 9.7" cl;earance that gives me 10." of clearance measured fairly. A lot of guys claim they have 11". But I doubt it. They are just adding up components on paper. We Wilderness who put on larger stiff AT's are at a bit over 10" of HONEST clearance. And is that enough. Well, it is for me, for now, and I go over some rough roads now and then. I pick my lines well, and I am carefull, but confident. I do have the STOCK option full skid plates from front to rear, which may not be the hardest, but I think this is an advantage that is best suited for another discussion, but they DO fit the car well, which keeps as much of that clearance useable as possible. And I feel like if I did need more I would have to do the whole undercarriage shimming and lowering as well which just seems like a lot of work for a car that is meeting my needs. An inch taller tire doesn't seem like much of an upgrade, but I notice a difference. I can easily drive over curb sized obstacles much more easily, the roughness of terrain seems much less bumpy inside the cab. The need to air down, seems more like an option than a necessity. That is just me, for MY needs, and everyone is different. Native Nomads challenges his vehicle more than I have mine, but that is only because I haven't made the choice to get out there to that degree yet. I am still in the planning phases and local testing and it is on my bucket list to do some longer trips that are more rough and remote. That being said, I bought this car to TAKE ME PLACES, not to compete in rock crawling. I don't WANT to tear it up, and I look for roads that will take me somewhere amazing that a car couldn't get to, but that is still safe and reasonable for my crossover. And I have confidence that if I run into a surprise bad spot or a washed out place, a landslid place, that I can pick around it, or find an alternate. But my goal is not to LOOK for roads that are scraping up my underarmor for miles on end. If that is you, perhaps a lift is a good thing. And I'll be honest, I wouldn't mind haveing another inch or two. But my point is, do more with less if you can. 10" of HONEST clearance, without a differential pumkin to worry about, is nothing to scoff at. You can go on a lot of trails with this setup slightly tire modded from stock. OK now I am gonna see what Native Nomad thinks. Seeya later.

While I respect your opinion, the ironman lift helps a lot. 1.5" is a lot. I agree, 99 percent of people don't need a lift at all, but there were so many times I wouldn't have scraped a rock if i had an extra inch, but thats also why i have full skids front to back. I'm in the process of adapting quick disconnects for the stock sway bars, reinforcing the strut towers and installing lockers. I'm never going to be able to follow a Jeep or 4runner on harder trails, but I just want more assurance when doing blue trails. Being on the east coast there lots of hidden suprises inside mud holes and bigger ruts. This isnt the Moab Desert where you can literally just see everything. I've also been of the mentality that if it breaks just fix it. I always bring spare parts and tools for harder trails. I feel that once you got your Lexus you've seen the limitations on the Outback Platform, but part of the fun is pushing limits. What Anderson Design was a proof of concept, and I applaud them. But as always thanks for making these videos Josh and Happy Trails.

Spacer lift seems ideal based on the hight being the only real benefit of a lift on this car. Id say rock rails, skids, tires, and maybe the spacer lift is ideal. I do agree that a lift is pretty optional. Im not an engineer but i suspect that the longer struts will probably be adding a similar leverage disadvantage to the towers as a 2 inch spacer would. Either way the drive wheels are farther from the body meaning more leverage against the mechanicals. Thats my thoughts anyway.

Hey man! Thanks for the insight! I was wondering though… I have a Rigd UltraSwing with all of the accessories (table and sideback) and I have a bike rack, and I can tell that the weight is causing the back of the car to sag some. Would you recommend me getting a spec-c suspension just to help offset that extra weight? Or is it ok for the car to sag some? I know you have an UltraSwing, but you said you wouldn’t get the lift if you could do over again, so I’m curious. Thanks!

I had a 22 OBW here with ironman lift and plus size tires, it ride great and go anywhere i wanted to go! And most of time i go along with my 4runner friends i can even do some blue trails without any damage. 5 inch lift for the OBW LOL, to me it just a marketing. that lift will destroy the entire geometry of the Outback and lose most of benefit from the car. And you are right, If people want rock climbing they should look for other cars. unless people want to create a monster out of it for show!

I agree. Lifting for bigger tires on a fully independent suspension equipped unibody vehicle is the biggest lie. It cannot be done without any form of cutting and banging. Cutting isn't the only caveat, however; gearing is.

A hardy tire made a lot of difference to me and I didn't need rims with just slight size up to a 235, running the Wildpeak AT3W and I think it runs a bit big also and It looks better and is a beast. Other than my air intake, I need nothing else to hang with my friends in there Cherokee Trail Hawks, stock wranglers, Bronco Sports Badlands and such. But they cant touch me in the canyons lol.

S/O Anderson Design Fab for the OBW with a 4” lift and 31s

I want to get a OBW in the future. I don't plan to mod it. I want one to be able to go a bit beyond the the trials. Nothing too crazy.

I am disabled person who would like to get out on back roads, forest service roads, easy roads for photography purposes. I can't hike much so car is the way to get closer to nature. Thinking of Forestor as less length than the Outback. What do you think? Thanks.

You're probably right about the lift not being the best option. However, where you are wrong is moving to tucson big mistake.

Whats the biggest tire wheel combo you can go, and stay stock. No lift. Offset, wheels tire width?

I appreciate your videos. My outback wilderness is beginning to sag from frequently hauling heavy items. Do you not recommend a lift?

Is the speedo off and were you able to correct it or just use GPS?

Josh i lifted my 2023 outback onyx ironman lift 2" and i tried 245/65/17 tire from 225/65/17 bf goodrich but there was rubbing on the front what will i do tnx for your advice

You mention Ironman and Flatout, saying those are the only two options for a suspension lift? What about RaceWorks? Supposedly, they’ve had a lot of success in racing applications. As well, the images on their site and the few reviews I’ve seen seen suggest they’re offering a very high quality product. I’m also curious about the claim that Subaru has engineered the ride of the Outback to such a refined degree. I don’t have a Wilderness, but my Onyx reacts sharply to bumps and wallows in prolonged turns when the suspension is compressed. Truthfully, I like the character Subaru has engineered into their vehicles. At the same time, they fitted good enough components and invested sufficiently in R&D to sell a profitable product to customers. They’re not doing anything magical. If someone wants the performance of the Subaru drivetrain, but also recognizes deficiencies in how an Outback handles varied terrain, I’m not sure what options they have other than to upgrade the suspension. Definitely interested in your thoughts.

Question: Can 245's fit on a non lifted OBW?

I'd do it for the look. If you got the money to burn, might as well.

Before i consider this i guess i need to own a OBW first lol.

why don't you put a window ac unit in your garage, I put one in mine. lifesaver.

Buy a 4 Runner

The stock Wilderness is 9 times out of 10 a better vehicle than modded. People ruin them with poor tire choices, messed up wheel offsets, scuffed suspension spacers, etc. The factory version of the vehicle is ideal for it's intended purpose. It's an all-weather highway cruiser with light offroad capability. Subaru has nailed that. Trying to make it more offroad oriented has missed the entire point of the car. That owner should be driving a 4Runner or something. I cringe every time I see KO2s on a Subaru.

ironman is chinese made. that alone is a hard pass. appreciate this video but dont get ironman.

This has really gotten me thinking about lifting my 2020 Outback (premium, not wilderness sadly). I want to chase that slightly more aggressive look the Onyx and Wilderness trims go for, but definitely understand it’s probably not a massive performance boost for the basic model I have.