Is Valve making another Steam Controller? ➡ kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mNiVgMmD15OUe6c.html

My fear is that developers will depend on FSR and Frame Generation, instead of properly tuning games to run at native resolutions.

Valve getting sued by a patent troll over the analog triggers/paddles is still one of the stupidest things to happen during the Steam controller's development

I run a modded Skyrim on the steam deck,all u do is copy over a modded version of Skyrim onto the steam deck and change the launcher to launch the skse launcher and there you go

The important distinction here is, that FG is NOT an no-brain activation. Upscaling's only downside is a little worse image quality for much more performance. FG means an additionally worsening of Image quality AND the introduction of additional input lag, while increasing the framerate even further ... so it's not free performance as upscaling is: FG is trading one performance metric for another (more input lag for better framerate) which can feel noticeable worse than the lower base framerate of your game (depending on game and user). That's because on base framerate you get every image presented as soon as it's ready (upscaling or not), while with FG your GPU holds the current frame back, to first calculate the interpolated frame based on the current and the last frame (while the information of the real frame already gets slightly outdated), then it shows you the interpolated (while the information of the real frame gets even more outdated) and only then it shows you the real image based on input information some time X ago, instead of showing it instantly without waiting. This leads to increased input lag in every single scenario (even with NV Reflex or Radeon Antilag) over the base (worse) framerate without FG. So you get a smoother looking image (make 60 look like 120 or 40 like 80) but you also get more input lag (make 60->120 feel like 40 and 40->80 feel like 30) while using FG (numbers are only examples and vary from game to game / engine to engine). For some games it's more noticeable than others based on the kind of game and whether you play with gamepad or mouse and keyboard (indirect vs. direct camera control) but it ALWAYS does introduce more input lag ... to claim differently (which sime do) would be also to claim your GPU is actually time traveling 😄 Digital Foundry did a test of Lossless Scaling two days ago (4th July) where they tested how much input lag gets introduced when enabling FG. Using FG which is implemented in a games engine may give you better results as an external tool like LS can provide, but it always will introduce additional input lag. Every user just has to try it out which he/she is more sensitive to / more irritated by: lower framerate or higher input lag, which also can vary greatly from the type of game you play and the input devices you use. Generally a rule of thumb is: direct camera control (like playing an FPS/3PS with mouse or VR) or also platformers, which require very precise and timely inputs (like Celeste or something like a first person platform, which would combine the to concepts) makes input lag the most noticeable, while playing both slower games and with controller will make the difference indistinguishable to most players.

It's very rare to get surveyed by Steam. This past month got the survey on PC and Deck. Almost felt curious in turning on the old laptop to see if I got it in there too. Almost...

FSR 2 does not work on Steam Deck out of the box on everything. The FSR from the quick access menu is FSR 1

I really like the Steam internal workshop for modding. Easy and straight to the point for easy setup for the average user. I really struggled with nexus mod

On frame generation, Lossless Scaling has been routinely blowing my mind on my Legion Go. Enshrouded is pretty poorly optimized on PC right now (still in early access so no shade), but I'm running it at 1080p with low/medium settings to lock in at 30 fps and I'm getting 60 fps with just a bit of flicker/ghosting on my big screen TV. Better optimized games run like butter at 60 fps high. It's nuts that a $6 app is effectively doubling my frame rates on a machine with no dedicated GPU. And like you said, this tech is only going to get better. I absolutely agree that frame gen is the next big thing in gaming.

I'd buy two Steam controllers if Valve makes them.

I would also love to see the Steam Deck work as controller+extra screen on Desktop Steam akin to the WiiU.

Love this Channel. I watch KZfaq a lot and stumbled across your videos a few months back. - I was gaming with my brother who lives a state away from me...when I described you he knew I was talking about the Nerd Nest and enjoys your content also.Keep it up man, quality content as usual

I hope the trackpads become industry standard with the Right Trackpad as the default camera and the Left Trackpad as a radial menu for 1-8. And then if every company iterates on that basic design for a couple of years like they have with the DualShock and add in back buttons and a back scroll wheel…we would get the perfect controller. I hope Valve sees that the steam deck is already possibly the blueprint for the future perfect controller.

Was watching this video while Playing on my docked Steam Deck with a Steam Controller I just got last week. I can’t go back to my old controllers anymore. The Steam Controller is the controller I’ve ever felt the most comfortable with.

Frame generation can also be used on game that are locked to x to get more frame rate

Agreed on the Steam Controller 2. I just want a Steam Deck with no screen in the middle. I would buy several day 1.

Hey Nerd Nest. I really enjoy watching your videos when i have the free time. Id love to see you guys make a video on the legion 5 and 7 pro. Also cant wait to see your take on upcoming games like Star Wars outlaws and Space Marine 2. Thanks.

FG is basically that, a Frame Generated artificially using some algorithm and insert it between the real Frames rendered ( this could add some input lag ) , and then the supersampler could be FSR , XeSS or DLSS

I'm actually really looking forward to this controller despite not having trackpads or rumble. If it means that more controller manufacturers will make more gamepads with Steam Input in mind, I'm all for it!

You are sooooooo right about a steamdeck without the screen, I Love the controls of the steamdeck and nobody has come close to beating it yet. If they sell a steam controller 2 I’m DOWN!

just wish the sticks weren't offset

My hope is that Hori are in the know about an official Steam Controller and it's going to have trackpads so they want to offer a more classic alternative to Valve's controller.

and how many of those using controlleres are a actually using them connected to steam deck? so we got to factor that in

No rumble on the horipad is the real bummer. Hopefully they come out with a slightly higher end version with rumble and maybe a trackpad

You should revisit the alpakka controller it has had some big updates from last time you used it.

For me, the Steam Deck itself IS in fact the "Steam Controller 2"... I never understood why people docked their device only to want an extra "Steam Controller 2" to play on the TV/monitor. I use a 3m USB-C male to female cable that connects into a tiny HDMI+PD dock that is connected to the TV. Works great and I also eliminated the added latency that bluetooth controllers usually come with. Sure there's a usb-c cable to the Steam Deck (just like in the good ol' days). But at least I never need to charge batteries when playing on the screen. :)

I bought Spider-Man yesterday and after a small hour of tweaking, I finally do not use this feature and stick to a solid 45 with no ghosting or anything too much troubling. Still, well done, I believe lots of people will enjoy this 🙏

It sure is! My ROG Ally gets even more frames now!

He’s back!!

Vortex coming to the steam deck is big as I’ve been using steam tinker launch and it wasn’t working too well

Really hopeful for nexus getting worked out. I love Skyrim Modded. And while I have it working via copying the file directory from pc and doing weird file linking in steam on the deck, it is such a tedious process that it isn't even really worth it. I got to a new part of the game where FPS became a slide show, and because I can't tweak the mods on the deck OR access the launcher graphic options, I'm basically just done playing it.

All I need is just lossless scaling working natively on SteamOS. All these frame gen implementation takes a lot time to work, while windows handhelds can already benefit from this amazin software.

Nixxes did an amazing job on these ports 👌🏻

Hey Bill! Do you think Valve is referring to FULL controller support in that article? The reason I ask is because I owned at least 300 games on Steam back in 2017, and I remember the vast majority of them having SOME kind of controller support. Most of the ones that didn't have any controller abilities were strategy games. The reason I remember so well is because (like you) I grew up playing games on a controller, so I STILL prefer to use a controller whenever I have a choice! Any other old-heads out there who can confirm this?

I love steam controller 2 talks

frame generation is like a black magic for the fps counter

your last video was for my favorite handheld.....but looks like your favorite is getting FSR too.

I wish they'd of made the steam deck with a series X style Dpad, in my opinion the Oled would be basically perfect if they did that

Finally gonna be able to mod Skyrim on my deck amen

for games like bg3, you need to share mods with the people you play multiplayer with or it won’t work. I really would love being able to mod BG3 to get those other playable DnD classes and spells.

Valve should do a direct connect between the steam Link and Steam Deck like the wi U

Once FSR 3 hits all the games we gonna be lit! 👌🏾

Tested it out on Spider-man and the cpu overhead of Frame-gen seems to push the average "real" frames down closer to 30 with an output of "60". To my eye 40-45 fps cap in a 80-90hz containter is a much better experience both visually and latency wise. But like you said this tech is only gonna get better.

For sticks that are not hall-effect, the Steam Deck has my fave sticks to date. I’d buy a Deck controller without the screen. Slightly better d-pad and bigger, flatter buttons would be sick.

My deck's right trackpads rattle with the haptic feedback. Don't know what to do. I've only been using it for 5 months.

Fallout 4 luckily has mods built in. New Vegas and FO 3. I had to use mod organizer 2. Was a bit of a process. But not horrible. However Some F04 mods don't play nicely. The hot springs for example. I usually have to save, close and relaunch the game after entering the bunker

i have the new hori controller since i live in japan. its great! but theres no rumble and that sucks

I would like a steam controller it looks so cool

Im convinced SteamInput would destroy XInput if a genuinely great new ergonomic controller with more buttons came out. Its mad we still have the same controller layouts we had with the PS2. Sure There are back padals on Xinput but they only replicate existing buttons. Its seen in so many games having tap, hold and double tap commands assigned to the same buttons and highlights the need for more control.

In my experience fsr ultra quality is good to upscale 1080p to 1440p, and fantastic to upscale 1440p to 4k. It's not the "fake, blurry mess" some pretend it is at those resolutions. However it gives really poor results to upscale to 720/800p on the deck, because it simply doesn't have enough material (pixels) to work with.

The LEGO, yea just got a new legion space update 🚀 🔥

Yessssss! I've been messing with Nexus to mod Fallout on my steam deck and it wasn't working for whatever reason :( but finally Nexus is supporting Linux! Can't wait till they figure it out for everything.

Yeah, I'm right there with you Bill. I've been looking for an affordable controller with all of the features of the Steam Deck. Track pads, 4 back buttons, analog triggers, etc. It's only a matter of time when companies will wise up and we'll finally see this happening. But let's see if they launch the product with fair prices. I'm sure that we can all agree that the current state of the controller scene has been riddled with overpriced gadgets. All of this could be remedied if Valve just produced there own offering.

Frame generation can be a game changer, but current hardware isn't quite there yet. I'm not sure if the NPU would be useful for frame gen, but I feel like a special chip or die specifically for tasks like frame generation could be an excellent way to push hardware limitations. Alternatively, AMD could give us more cache but that's a different conversation. It's crazy but I think Intel is poised well to pull ahead with Meteor lake.

Thanks to FSR 3.1 and proton 9.2, I can now play HFW on a decent, relatively stable 45+ fps.

3:43 fsr 2 isnt built into the steam deck maybe i misunderstood your point

if only I had the money to buy a Deck

Hori would be stupid not to release it in the US market, I'm guessing they'll do it a few months after initial release.

I don’t really like farms generation, a whole bunch of input lag gets added

I saw a review on Spiderman and the FG. Yes the fps are better, but the 60fps are necessary because otherwise you get a very noticable input lag. So the conclusion was ... less fps but significantly less input lag is a better gameplay than more fps but significantly more input lag. I noticed this on games like Cyberpunk even on the PC, that FG is causing massive input lag when the minimum fps is way below 60fps. Thats why I think this technology in its current state is useless. The goal should always be reaching at least 60fps with no input lag. Not reaching 120fps or more. Thats no real benefit.

Come on Bill! Reach out to some of these DIY KZfaqrs (i.e. Tito from Macho Nacho Productions or Matt from DIY Perks) and throw the gauntlet down for them to DIY a steam controller 2.0. I'm sure they can do it. Let's make that happen.

👾 sick!!

try the gpd win mini 2024 ull sell all ur handheld and keep the mini

i think valve should straight up buy nexus and integrate it into their system over time.

Legion Go os getting better?

How can computing a new frame be less computationally expensive than running at a higher framerate?

The stream controller doesn't need to be from valve, it just needs to have a trackpad

I sill have the original day 1 Steam controller, just like my anti-glare OG steam deck which i’m not proud of fyi.. i’m mad at Valve for that one.

Yeah, I often use a GuliKit KK3 Pro in Xbox mode. So yeah Steam calls it an Xbox controller. I might grab a Hori just for the heck of it when it comes here; although I don't see much of the point of it.

I use a controller with ReWASD so Steam will still see that as keyboard keys being pushed 🙃

Well my favorite handheld is the Legion Go to each his own

I don't think Steam Deck has FSR2 (temporal upscaler) built-in and if it does, it acts like FSR1 (spatial upscaler), which runs on driver level and doesn't need integration from the game. The reason why FSR2 is better than FSR1 is because when integrating with the game, FSR2 gets motion vectors information from the game, FSR1 didn't have that.

To answer your question about if this has to be done on a game by game basis I'd advise looking into something along the lines of lossless scaling. That(as an example) is a standalone piece of software that allows frame gen for any game. And if a small company(compared to valve anyway) can do that... I am sure it is right around the corner.

I would rather have 30 real frames per second than have 120fps where half are guessed. The reason for wanting higher framerates is for the quicker delivery of accurate information. Frame gen holds back new information to compare with the last real frame so it can guess more outdated information in the fake frame. The result? A 60fps game presenting the illusion of being 120fps, with the same information as a ~45fps game. They may be able to counter the input latency, but that does not change the fact the real information is delayed. This is why they don't recommend frame generation on less than 60fps. The illusion shatters completely below that point.

What about HellDivers2? 😢

I'm old enough to remember when companies would get called out for using things like frame interpolation and downscale rendering in order to cover up for weak hardware. I understand how FSR and DLSS is different. But it's not *that* different.

FSR 3.1 requires game integration and is better than driver level AMFM.

We need fsr 3.1 on Helldivers 2, that shit is so bad optimized.

Looks like no one took you up on the math homework 😂

I wont touch a controller without rumble

Had to refund Spider-Man so as a warning to others playin on steamdeck do not put your graphics so ultra with 8x otherwise it bricks the game and it won’t let you go back into setting to lower it so it becomes unplayable I’m sure you could uninstall and do something in desktop files but I don’t want to figure it all out apart from that amazing game good gameplay just don’t brick it like I did

Steam deck will only see big improvements on frame generation, becouse its already under 1080p so upscaling will not be that great of a performance gain

Or next gen vr headsets

Yep.. ally x his coming

I love how back then "downloading fps" was a joke. Now it's a reality 😂

That controller not only lacks trackpads, but also lacks rumble. Personally, not interested. A proper Steam controller from Valve that incorporates all the controller elements of the Deck would be very interesting. Just please make the dpad and shoulder buttons better.

what about the asus rog ally? :)

I bought mine for $256 i got 1tb i modded it now game that use 90%gpu only use 46% gained 40+fps😅

Frame gen cannot be implemented in OS level, it must use internal data from a game. In other words, FSR 3.1 frame gen feature will never be in SteamDeck.

Imo Lossless scaling should be ported into Proton OS ASAP

lol im one of the 26% that used playstation 4 and 5 controllers on my pc. how does steam track that kind of stuff? i use a controller so i dont lose my touch of playing ps5, you know if you use the same thing you never lose the feeling when hopping back and forth and also mouse is too easy to aim with.

Bill Nye the steam deck guy

tell steam to fix their anti cheat issue! it sucks not being able to play the newest games

I allow them to get rid of steam controllers as long as we get a "steam deck controller". I want everything the steam deck has on a controller. that is all i need.

Upscaling and frame interpolation will not get infinitely better. There are simply logical limitations that cannot be overcome even with the best technology. For example, when you perform an action, only the real, non-interpolated frames can reflect it. The next, say, 10 interpolated frames, on the other hand, cannot - no matter how good they look visually. The 60 fps minimum recommended by AMD is more about the resulting input latency than the visual quality of the images. The technology is really intended to saturate monitors with very high Hz counts rather than to compensate for low FPS. It won't get much better than it is now.

The numbers is as follows 132million active monthly Steam players 10% is Let us guess active Steam Deck Users (not including players using controllers on a Steam Deck) That would be over 13million (13,200,000) Active non controller using Steam Deck players.

Easy to install mods = another reason to buy games on Deck over Switch 2.

Even tho Bill sometimes is not technically correct, he always means well. FrameGen can not "insert" a frame between real ones. That would require time travel and human memory rewriting. Rather it tries to predict the next frame based on previous ones as if the framerate would be twice as fast.

Still can't afford them. FML.

Nah mine is useless since last update, my controller don't work