Ivan is here!!!

@@The_Redkween I'm surprised he didn't just say "Eurotrash AGAIN"!! :-D

Been Your follower for a while Ivan and was going to make the same comment based on what I've seen on your videos , would love to learn in dept about how to use this technique.Any suggestions ?

Don't they say you should always change the harmonic balancer with the chain? Did you not have a simular case about a year back where the timing was off because the keyway on the crank or balancer was boogered? I had some kind of subconcious premenition of it being the balancer almost at the start of this video but not enough for my brain to articulate it.

Thanks Ivan, that could certainly have been the next step but sometimes a low tech screwdriver does the job🤣🤣

His scope told him the timing was off based on the known good waveforms. He trusted his scope and it told him the timing was off. That's why you have to trust your data, not your gut

also the fact it wanted to start probably carried most of the weight in this decision confirming fuel and spark.

It was the Crank/Cam correlation waveforms which told him to physically check the timing again. He was lucky to find a known good one to compare to.

@@samg5543 but what if that data was loaded by someone who just want to mislead others. Remember Dan said he only got one on library to compare. With there was no any other.

@@blockbertus I thought for sure that the crank sensor itself was the issue by sending a delayed pulse to the ECU, which I thought would upset the fuel/air intake timing

You are right 👍

Awsome Marek!

Thanks for the feedback 👍

The M113 is almost guaranteed to have crank no start through failed crankshaft position sensor. I've had it on two of my M113 equipped cars. Luckily it's cheap and easy to fix.

Yes the crank sensor of that period on both the 112 113 & even 4 cylinder 111 are known to fail usually when hot if you leave it to cool for 1/2 hour usually starts back up. This a common symptom not uncommon to all car brands.

But in a diesel engine you'll have to remove the injectors, and God help me diesel injectors usually are so clogged haha.

There's a neat trick using a whistle in the spark tube 😂 if it blows the valves are closed !

Thank you

My pleasure

Thanks for sharing

Thank you!

Brilliant

Thanks for watching

It's really a eye opener!@@Diagnosedan

actually if you look at 18:20 the one on the right does have an inner mark at tdc and bdc (ot ut) and the bad one on the left is off the 40 degrees

Spoiler

@@richardcranium5839 obviously he was talking about the inner part of the pulley and he is right , they should rely on the metal (fixed) part because the rubber\outer ring will brake down eventually

Remove the crank damper bolt and LOOK at the keyway.

@@HouseCallAutoRepair the keyway position doesnt mean that is at tdc , at least on many other vehicles

That's great to hear

🤣🤣👍

Great you found the problem Miguel

Fiat 1.9 Diesels are a classic for doing this too.

Thanks for the feedback 👍

You should be “Der Mechaniker.

Thanks!

Thanks Axel that's great to hear

Thanks for sharing!

Thank you

Smart Idea! Thanks for sharing 👍

Thank you David

Thank you

Thank you

Great to hear thanks

I realised this must happen to others that's why we'll create a bulletin on this issue👍

😁👍

Thank you 😁👍

Yes but not all engines are timed in TDC these days.

@DiagnoseDan That's why you're the man. Life and engineering changes. I've no doubt that you would have diagnosed the fault in another way if that were the case. In my day I always carried a toolkit, oil, grease, brake fluid, water & corn flakes packets. That was enough to get me home unless there was a catastrophic failure!

Or even trust the pulley on any car for that matter. You never know if the pulley got the markings right from the beginning even on those old sheet metal pulleys.

In cylinder could have been the next step👍

Thank you very much 👍

Thanks for watching

exactly

You couldn't tell there was something wrong with the pulley

Thanks!

Yes that's a smart Idea!

Thank you very much Mike👍

I don't know if the pulley would slip if we tried to turn it with more force or warmed up. Fortunately no valves damaged

That's great David 👍 Thanks

🤣🤣Why do they use such small numbers🤣🤣👍

@@DiagnosedanSo we have to buy their reading glasses.

I can imagine

Thank you

Thanks 😁😁

Smart❗💪

Was thinking the same thing too, I guess you can't always think right while you're in the storm.

Or use a screwdriver :)

@@hoedenbesteller Indeed it's another way to achieve the same result but you didn't need to spend a lot of money on tools, it's a matter of wanting to save money or time.

Yes you are right, maybe next time 👍

That's a great comment Rodrigo👍

I guess the didn't expect the pully to slip when they designed it🤣

that's not the first engine damper designed that way and sure wont be the last! even if it's mounted on the solid portion, NEVER trust it's accuracy, nor the dot/indicator on a timing cover, always physically confirm it's right. A dial indicator setup is the best way, but you can get very close with screwdriver/rod/whatever. I have seen partially sheered keys and other issues throwing the marks way off.

You were lucky!

Thanks for watching

Turn the engine first by hand.. i always do when unsure.. also.. when its 40 degrees off like that, sometimes by ear you hear there,s something wrong..

Hi Mark a long time ago i used to work at a company that made race engines. We never worked with timing marks but always timed the engines by measuring the position of the pistons/crank Shaft and the camshafts. Somehow that's still in my system.

Only you piston knows for sure - where TDC is! Simple yet reliable -ye olde long shafted screwdriver.

Let me know when it all Comes back🤣🤣

@@Diagnosedan I am hoping it comes back soon. Nice work fella. I am just amazed at the number of techies that think they know all. Then they find out they do not.

Thanks Barry

Thanks for the feedback, i guess Mercedes specialists know about this problem

Thanks Scott!

Thanks for the feedback Jeremy👍

Thank you

Hi Nico, helaas mocht ik alleen diagnose stellen. De auto is opgehaald en ik zal een update geven zodra ik meer weet👍

Yes i would have loved to hear it run

It did not spin on the crankshaft. The outer ring with the marks on it is connected to the inner part with a rubber ring in between for dampening. That rubber ring wore over time and allowed the outer ring to slip. That is not a problem as long as the chain is not changed because the belt driven by that does not have timing what so ever. It became a problem once the shop who junked that engine in the first place did a timing job on it. They didnt realize that their marks on the crankshaft pulley where off by around 40° (which is A LOT!). If MB would have placed timing marks on the inner part somehow, that would never have been a problem in the first place. Or if they didnt use a rubber ring between the inner and outer part of it.

@@blockbertus I did not say it spun on the crank, but the outer ring was probably stopped suddenly in an accident and the crank kept moving before the engine died. But yes, a poor design with the mark not directly connected to the steel part of the pulley.

@@oldschool1993 oh yeah. That could also quite possibly be. But very unlikely i suppose. Such an accident would leave damage on the engine too i suppose. The belt would slip before it would drag the outer ring around. Plus, it then must have spun it over/more than 360° (400° minimum to be exact).

@@blockbertus No- the inner pulley only moved 40 degrees- look at the comparison you can see the keyway for the crank is almost exactly 40 degrees clockwise of where it should be, indicating that the outer ring stopped and the crank kept moving. This could happen 2 ways- 1. The outer ring was suddenly stopped while the engine was running 2. The outer ring was held in place by some method while the crank bolt was torqued and the force of the torque moved the inner pulley inside the outer ring. It's a good detective story, because Dan says the junkyard engine had a new timing chain. That means at some point before the engine ended up in the junkyard, someone had installed a new timing chain and it was a running motor. ( you can't get into a wreck if the car doesn't run). So what happened was A: The original mechanic set and checked his cam timing before fully torqueing the pulley, and then during the torque procedure he managed to move the outer ring out of place, but the timing was correct and the motor ran fine. OR 2: The pulley was somehow jammed during the wreck and the crank moved inside it before the inertia of the motor stopped. Here is where the story is hard to follow. Even though the timing mark was wrong, the cam timing should have still been correct and the motor would have run. So now they are searching for the reason and begin looking for a problem in the electronics- remember someone had cut and repaired wires on one cam sensor- then they buy a used ECU with no success. Somewhere in this process before they get the used ECU cloned, the mechanic decides to check the cam timing and he thinks it is wrong because of the spun timing mark, so he re-adjusts the cam timing and they continue with the cloning of the ECU which is now OK, but still no start because the mechanic has now got the timing wrong, so they throw their tools across the shop, call a tow truck and send it to Dan.

@@oldschool1993 a crap. I had in mind that the keyway was on the other side of the OT mark for some reason. i checked it again and sorta agree with you on that now. however, i feel it would be more likely that it was held in place manually while reassembly or rotated slowly over time.

This isn't normally a requirement.

No it doesn’t & it’s chain driven not a belt

No it doesn't

Thanks!😁👍

Smart thinking 👍

That's great to hear Frank!

That's great!

This was a great case indeed! Thanks for watching

🤣🤣👍

🤣🤣

That's great to hear!

Thanks for watching

Thank you!

Thanks!

Thanks Joseph

Thanks for your amazing comment it's appriciated!

Thank you Dave!

Thank you

Thank you very much Richard

Thanks!!

Thanks Simon

Thank you very much 👍