No....that is not correct. What you call a "genetic Celt" is genetically located in Ireland/Scotland /Wales/Brittany. See recent genetic studies.

By 3000 BCE the Iberian tribes migrated in and through modern day France, all the way up to central Europe. I'm pretty sure the mix of the Autochthonous-Iberians with Indo-Europeans gave birth to the Celtic culture we know of. Funnily enough, the same Celtic culture would years later migrate and settle in Iberia, giving way to another branch of Celtic culture, the Celtiberians.

My Great Great grandparents were O'Briens from Ireland. My DNA is 33%Irish of which I'm very proud. A very small percentage of my DNA is from the so called Celts in Portugal the Iberian Peninsula many thousands of years ago. Now I know why through the research of Barry Cunliffe. I was born in the Northwest of Britain. Cheshire. The rest of my DNA is British with a smattering from the Scandinavians and Italians.

You are wrong an right.Spain?! What "spain"?Are you talking of the Whole Peninsula? Or about The Rest of the Peninsula, that is not Portugal? Galicia is Naturally and geographically speaking ,all the North of Portugal from Pôrto (entering present Galicia) to La Coruña. It became separated because of Portugal's becoming an Independent Kingdom.

they're two branches, one doesn't come from another

Ehm, I think you're Spanish since you just said "piping bag" instead of "bagpipe", but for the sake of full understanding I'll speak English to provide one single fact: bagpipes aren't "Celtic", they're common to more than one culture (with their differences) and they don't appear in the Iron Age, precisely...

Not the Basque region, the Galician region.

@pantarhei well,something is very strange with Illyrians,because on Adriatic coast we can see almost identical culture like in ancient Greek..i live 44 years in Croatia,and only few years ago I heard of ancient meghalitic ruins in my backyard.. Asseria and Varvaria in Croatia,Daorson in Bosnia,Medun in Monte negro,etc.. also,they recently found that in Dalmatia people were manufacturing chesse 7000 years ago,3000 years before Egyptians.. i also read once a legend that Ilir,Kelt and Gal was three brothers.. i don't know,something is very wrong about our history..

The Celts later scattered the Venedo-Ligurians, who fled to far-off places and became other peoples like the Lusitanians and Italics. Some Venedo-Ligurians fled to Scandinavia, mixed with Balts and Lapps, and became the Germanic people.

would you say the celtic language evolved out of the PIE speaking populations coming out of the asian steppes slowing creoling their vocabulary. wiht the introduction of different processes of doing things i.e agriculture?

@ kaindrg: Yes. Finally, some sense.

What you say makes some sense, but happened much, much before that, 8/9000 BC.And one more thing.What you cal "tartessian", is actually the Kónni(which were the hiberians) People, from South of Portugal, Alentejo and Algarve.They were the Megalithic Builders, all along till they reached the British Islands, being their greatest and most perfect Megalith building , Stonehendge. That's why you can find from South to the North of Portugal , the greatest concentration of Megaliths in the world.

+Burkean Scot It is a derivative.One characteristic of celtic language is the consonant change depending on the case.For example the word for town is baile(pro bolya) my town is mo bhaile(waolya).Welsh has something similar and scots gaelic has lost it i think.This characteristic may be a characteristic from an non indoeuropean language

+Brian K Agree. find it highly unlikely that the Celts spread east. See my earlier posts which may account for this idea gaining currency

+ Rodolfo Lobo no

+Rodolfo Lobo They are in Boston. Bill Russell was the best.

The Galicians were the Iberian Celts, one of the 7 Celtic Nations in the ancient world. The last Gaelic speaker there died in the 15th or 16th century.

***** So did mine. Stay in your own clan? If you did that you'd be inbred. Was she inbred?

It is not about whether or not. This is not to convince anyone, it is a feeling throughout the centuries and generations. If you do not know the story or have been here, it is better not to talk.

Travis West i did too. I am, Europe West 32% Ireland 25% Europe South (Italy) 23% (my dad is nearly half italian and my grandmother is italian from Abruzzo, i knew this to be fact prior to the ancestry test) Scandinavia 6% Iberian Peninsula 5% Caucasus 4% Middle East2% Europe East 2% European Jewish < 1% it stated the caucasus and middle east likely came from my italian side. im assuming the iberian peninsula and irish ancestry are linked..

ho ya baby we the lusitani are the fathers of western civilization , we got the cradle where it all began

The Picts, were simply, the Britons, that remained unconquered by Rome. you can see that in their Archaeology, and the names that were left behind, i.e it was P-Celtic (For example Aberdeen) Mouth "of the river" Deen

They re long gone

The only surviving Pictish texts show they spoke a Norse language, as one would expect. See Professor Richard A V Cox's book. There seems to have been a substantial Irish invasion of the whole of western coast of Great Britain around 500 AD inwards and in the far north it was clearly substantial enough to change the dominant language. Gildas ('Narrow Horn' in Gaelic) looks like the buddy of an Irish war lord who was fighting both the Picts and other Irish war lords and called in help from 'Saxons', probably living in East Anglia. Vortigern ('Foremost Leader ') in Irish looks like a title, not a personal name. Bede must have been puzzled by Gildas' use of the word 'Saxon' as the invasion he knew of was by Angles from Denmark, probably a small force of a few hundred, like the later force of Normans who numbered about 200, plus mercenaries, many local. So Bede changed the name and he and subsequent writers increased the number of boats, eventually to 300+, enough to hold all of the young males of Scandinavia? Besides massive migration, disease has doubtless increased the Irish component in the whole of the present British population as people with 'O' group blood have a greater immunity to variola and malaria. The Cambridge ancient history of Scandinavia tells us, I recall, that disease devastated the Scandinavians when later there was greater contact between them and the peoples from points to the Southwest. Herodotus tells us that the Celts lived in the upper reaches of the River Ister, and points much further west. The Ister is the Danube and 'upper reaches' could include Halstatt but for the fact that not only Herodotus but Aristotle too thought the Ister arose in the Pyrenees. Ireland was the source of gold for the Classical World so it would make sense if Ireland was the source of the marvellous gold artefacts and the Irish culture spread east, not the other way around. Definitely worth researching. After all if the oldest extant gold torcs, the Dornoch Hoard, are correctly dated (800BC or earlier) torcs were invented in Scotland. They can be seen in the Scottish National Museum.

The basque language was spoken throughout a much wider region in historical times. Aquitanian was related to it. These languages are not Indoeuropean. On the other hand, Celtic languages ARE Indoeuropean, they could be linked with as far as Sanskrit. How do you explain that welsh, scots and irish speak a celtic (indoeuropean language) while being at the end of the world, the last peoples in Europe before meeting the Atlantic? How come they speak indoeuropean languages while basques, which are closer to the East and not that isolated, speak and "untainted" language? How do you explain that these basques are actually the purest R1B people in the world? R1B has become synonimous with "Celtic" nowadays thanks to all the recent research on DNA of populations. They say that Indoeuropean languages came through cultural transmission from the East, from people who brought agriculture to western Europe. But why didn't they permeate the basques? They learned agriculture, they are western people, they are not extremely isolated like Scots or Irish... so, who can explain these misteries?

Luis Gonzalez The Basque (Aquitanians), original Lusitanians (pre-Celt) and Iberians (Edetani, Tartessians, Bastuli, Cessetani, Ceretani, Ilercavoni, Ilergetae, Sedetani, Oretani, etc) spoke a similar language, this is proved by archeological research. So, I believe that by 3000 BCE, when there was a massive Iberian (Bell Beaker) migration into modern-day France, Switzerland, Germany and Austria, the Autochthonous-European Iberians settled and mixed with the incoming Proto Indo-Europeans, that made their way from the Eurasian Steppes to Central Europe (Corded Ware). That mix then gave birth to what we know as early (pre-expansion) Celtic culture and hence the Indo-European''ess" of culture,language, etc. Or at least that is what I interpret of it. Keep in mind I'm just a history enthusiast and by no means any expert.

@@LuisGonzalez-gb4uh the video doesnt say that celtic spoken in the British Isles was indoeuropean in its origin, it says it was from indigenous people around the Atlantic coast from iberia to the British isles

The whole thing is an Anglo version viewed from outside, without respectfully asking the people themselves what they know. And the Welsh know so much. As I was saying to Brennan Mulrennan, this man lumped thousands of years of migrations together.

***** I would have hoped for something better than his calling them all Celts.

***** I hope that's all it is.

There is definitely a Welsh language, and sorry to say I don't.

***** Scottish Gaelic and Irish Gaelic (a.k.a. 'the Irish') are closer to each other than either is to Welsh, which is closer to Cornish (extinct) and Breton. Welsh has elements of Euskarie and (believe it or not) Hebrew, but is grouped with Celtic languages. My first name is Irish and means 'music' and the pronunciation is difficult to describe. The 'e' is an 'ay' and the 'sh' is like a lisp, and there's a slight guttural at the end, just an 'h' really. Lots of people in Wales do speak Welsh. I moved to Canada as a child, but at least I know the old stories, and I assure you that no Celt would ever make the mistakes this man does, even in a quick book promotion.

I am not going to debate skin colour Our ancestors wore clothes similar to native americans over ten thousand years,hunted the same way so we didn,,t wear just furs. If middle easterners came over the ice good luck to them just sdds to the DNA pot

The Irish came from books.google.com/books?id=Y91ZHuZLCyAC&pg=PA271&dq=the+black+race+of+early+Ireland&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwizxsGf25nLAhVEGx4KHQdYA0IQ6AEINDAE#v=onepage&q=the%20black%20race%20of%20early%20Ireland&f=false

ITs true, they came from turkey.

So how do you account for the overwhelming majority of paternal haplogroup of modern Celts (that includes the English) to be R1b?

R1b is mostly common to all Europe R-M269 being the variation the most common to France, Ireland, UK, Spain, Denmark, Spain ... Culture is an other thing Language also. Like he said Language of the Celts may have emerge from Ireland where we find the oldest form with the Q-Celtic language And Breton and Welsh are P-Celtic. Ancient Irish didn't used the P. Irish were Cruthin, Welsh Priton Breton all the same. The Belief system how ever might came from Hallstatt like. Some ancient text talks about the Celts as a roaming peoples. Many Celtic traditions are kept by the Yennich and Shelts. Genetic has nothing to do with beliefs and language. I know a Ginger Jew who is from the Haplogroup R1b. Yet we know fuck about the Travellers and the Yennich because of racism and that they are hermetic society, they breed together and trust me they don't want their DNA recorded because they have to rely on crime since they are not trusted by the other dwellers. We know little about their language also. Yes they must be from the R1b group too. If we look at DNA Haitians are Either R1b(cause it's the 'Y' chromosome) and if not L2 Haplogroup. Concerning the Language Q and P Celtic are Indo European Yet Basque is not Indo-European But are mostly R1b haplogroupe ... So, Why would a non Indo-European nation(language) would have an overwhelming R1b Haplogroup?

Hi Pat, thanks for your reply, yes indeed Basque is a "Non Indo-European" language, the answer is quite simple, the same reason why White Modern British People speak "English", while most of the people are not descended from the Anglo Saxons, for one reason or another, the pre- indo European language in Basque stayed dominant, while overtime, most of the paternal genes became Indo European, (i.e the women there kept the language alive). For us to understand the divergence of R1b (Flavour) of Indo-European (as opposed to R1a) we have to look at R1b subclades, so DNA is a very important factor to study, so is linguistics, and divergence, when precisely did Proto Celtic and Proto Germanic form? and where? We probably will not agree on this and the Jury is as they say still out. anyway thanks for your reply and have a good day. P.S The reason I believe for the different flavour of Celtic in Britain and Ireland, is divergence, Hallstatt was older than La Tene, with the spread of Celt Iberians (possibly Hallstatt), and the Language entered Ireland from the Celt Iberians, while the language that became dominant in Britain, was La Tene, over a few hundred centuries of separation this was enough to cause the "P" and "Q" variations. Cheers ! :o)

Irish travelers as "Shelts"??, born and bred in Ireland iam and Ive never heard that term before

Shelta, Seldrù refers to the language used by 'an lutch siùl'. Sorry confusion, I read a book in French and they referred to Travellers as Shelts. Yet, Yennich and Thinkers, shares pretty much the same culture. Yennich has a few surviving words that are attributed to Gallo Roman language Some are said to be genuine Gaulish words.

Teresa Cross that’s complete dog shit

Teresa Cross It’s obvious. Trying to sell some books but there’s nothing new. Indo-European speech obviously didn’t start in the British isles, but rather came there at some point.

Don't get it twisted, your father is probably a Black Irish (The original Irishmen) who have dark hair and dark eyes.

I suppose...although I was always under the assumption the "black irish" were not the original irish, the original irish being white fair skin light hair etc.. and the black irish from southerners going up north and blending their genes with the fair skins

Zachary Stefano Nah from what i hear, the Black Irish are the original Irish, the people of Scotland looked like that too but the norse invasions caused many of them to have blonde or red hair. Stephen Opeinhemier's book talks about this.

Brythonic languages before the Celtic languages? I think that statement says a lot about your understanding! The Brythonic languages are Celtic languages! There are two living branches of the Celtic languages still extant the Goidelic branch (which includes Irish, Manx and Scottish Gaelic) and the Brythnonic group (which includes Welsh, Breton and Cornish). The concept that Celtic may possibly have started along the Atlantic seaboard is actually one which is gaining a lot of support in academic circles, Professor John Koch has proposed that the location for the development of Celtic was probably Spain and that it was carried from there to the British isles and also to other areas in Europe. Basically they are both variants of the same concept that Celtic developed in the west and then spread east.

+Muiris Mag Ualghairg I cant agree with that. The differences between the Goidelic Celts and Brythonic Celts are too great to support this view

Rory, Yes they are both Celtic languages but that isn't what you said, you suggested that Celtic and Brythonic aren't Celtic.

I think you may have misread my post. I never suggested they were not Celtic languages; I did however say they are different.

The Celtic warriors who invaded Greece were called Galatai by the Greecs. W e do not know, how these people called themselves

+George de Ruiter I think we do. Wasn't it Julius Caesar who said, '...they are called Celts in their language, and Gauls in ours...' The Galatians called themselves Galatians. According to Diodorus Siculus, the Galatians were named after their hero Galates and were known as Cimmerians before that.

@thruthebook: The Gaels themselves said that they were descended from Magog, not from Gomer. It is possible that the subgroup called Cimmerian was of mixed descent. After the Cimmerians were pushed into northern Anatolia, there were many Gaels living on the Pontic Steppe. And it is suspected that the Cimmerians were not Gaels but Thracians. Gaels, Thracians and Scythians were closely related, but they were not the same.

Shelagh McKenna Thanks! Yes, I'm sure that the people known as Gauls, Gaels, Celts, etc. were originally a mixture of people known in the Bible as Magog, Gomer, Ashkenaz and Tiras. Tiras is thought to be Thracians. Ashkenaz is almost conclusively known as Scythians (Scanians?). Gomer may have given his name to what is now Denmark and northern Germany (the 'Cimbrician Peninsula') and the tribe of Cimbri (a 'Celtic' tribe?).

thruthebook But these tribes, who called themselves, according to Caesar "Celts" do not have the same connection like our modern description word "celts".

.....and this is why they spoke Hebrew just as the Iberians, Celts, Scyths, Angles, Saxons, Galatians, Vikings, Goths etc....they were all the same peoples, Check: "The Creation of a Nation: Tracing the Lost tribes"

Poppycock... SCITIAN is not Irish for warrior, it isn't even close. Lost Tribe of Israel - utter rubbish. LOL.

Kelt4ever 2 scíath Forms: cruindsciath; Meaning: shield, buckler; battle- ments of a castle in:; fighting-man, warrior; DIL 2012 S 91.07 (b) by metonymy fighting-man, warrior: cach sceith fri creich, .i. cach aen ar a mbiadh sciath ar a scath, do neoch bus incomlaind (sic leg.), do dul ar in creich, Laws i 158.3 Comm . (word om. before sceith?). ? comlín sciath is lann is laech, Ir.

steve00353 This is a joke, right? _Sanskrit_ being somehow derived from Old Irish _senscríb_ when the development by which the offglide in _sen_ [sʲeə̯n] became the syllable nucleus attestably happened in *Middle* Irish, much more than a millennium after the first attestations of the name Sanskrit in Sanskrit itself? And when the Sanskrit word is a perfectly regular part (the passive participle) of a verbal paradigm (संस्कृ- _saṃs-kr̥-_), with which it is closely related and connoted? And when there is no i vowel in the second syllable in Sanskrit at all? Or _Scythian_ (the earliest attested form of which is the Greek _Σκύθης_ ‘a Scythian’ in Hesiod, 7th-8th century BC) being from an Old Irish form that arose more than a millennium later, after the Insular Celtic phoneme /eː/ had diphthongised into /ia/ in Old Irish (and /uɨ/ in Old Welsh)? It’s not _entirely_ implausible that the origin of _Σκύθης_ involved the Indo-European root _*skei̯t-_, which also underlies Old Irish _scíath_, but the Greek form certainly did not ‘come from’ Old Irish. (And no, _scitian_ is not a word at all in any stage of Irish.) If you’re going to guzzle about Old Irish, you should learn a bit of it yourself. _Ea_ is not ‘fire/spirit’ in Old Irish-it’s not anything in Old Irish. It’s a pronoun ‘it’ in Modern Irish, but that was _(h)ed_ in Old Irish. _Ea_ was not a word at all. Similarly, Hebrew was never _eabrach_ at any stage of the language. It was _ebrach_ in Old Irish (which does not contain _brách_ ‘eternal’ with a long vowel: it is just the bog-standard adjective ending _-ach_ attached to the noun _ebrae_ ‘Hebrew language’); then in Middle Irish the lenition of the b came to be consistently written (thus _eḃraċ_ and _ebhrach_); and finally, only in late Middle Irish and _Modern_ Irish has the spelling been fixed at _Eabhrach_. Also, ‘old’ was not written _sean_ in Old Irish-that’s a Middle and Modern Irish spelling. It was _sen_ in Old Irish. Please, let’s leave Goropisms in the past where they belong.

Good Goy The Kurgan hypothesis is the most commonly accepted one, and further support of it is being continually adduced; but it is by no means _proven_, nor even universally accepted. Nor is, incidentally, the existence of an Italo-Celtic pre-branch of Indo-European. Quite the contrary: evidence for a common ancestor of Italic and Celtic has decreased, rather than increased, with the almost certain discoveries that the _ā_-subjunctives/futures and _b/f_-futures arose separately (for the _ā_-formations even in completely different ways, from different sources). That doesn’t change the fact that the hypothesis described here sounds very fishy at first glance, of course.

+Good Goy Yet Stephen Oppenheimer's work was deemed correct by modern scientists that the irish are indeed descended of the basques. I do think its correct that celtic languages originated in northern spain since irish carries a lot of pre indo european loan words which are found in basque as well.

Do you have any books you could recommend for me? I would really be interested in reading more about that.

That theory was made up by Germanics in an attempt to neutralize the Celts. Doubtless the two groups have common ancestry as Indo-Europeans, but that's it. They were already separate groups when they first appeared on the Pontic Steppe 8000 years ago.

Shelagh McKenna Please don't troll. The oldest evidence of Celtic culture is in Hallstatt, Switzerland and I do not know where the oldest evidence for germanic culture is, but definitely not the pontic steppe. If yes, then please show me your evidence.

Canis Lupus The truth isn't 'trolling'. Check out the Tarim Basin 'mummies'. Those people travelled east instead of west around 2000 BC when the Pontic Steppe became overpopulated. They wore tartan twill weaving found only among the Celts. And Galatians came from the east to eventually settle in Anatolia and be killed. Those two are proofs. There is also good evidence: Herodotus' description of the Boudinoi, bagpipes in the Himalayas, obvious similarities to the Scythians and Thracians who both populated the Pontic Steppe and the similar origin stories of those people, who claimed to be closely related; also everything about these people which proclaims their origins as riders of the plains, including the Gaels' declaration that they came from Scythia and their appearance in western Europe long before Scythians invaded Ukraine from the east. Hallstatt Celts arrived in Europe earlier, it is true, but even they arrived from the east, not the west. Celtic languages are 'Indo-European', despite their western European influences. The worst thing about the lies that are told is not the obvious attempt to 'assimilate' the Celts (who will never fall for it) but the attempt to cover up the fact that the first Europeans were not 'Indo-Europeans'. That coverup is a sin the Celts never committed. They never pretended that they originated in Europe.

Shelagh McKenna I am sorry for calling you a troll. Obviously you know something I do not. Do you have any links I could look at? Thank you for enlighting me :)

No they didn't. The Scots and Manx spoke a Goidelic gaelic language, the Welsh and Cornish spoke a brittonic gaelic.

Koch has already shown how a near eastern genetic component could easily have ended up in the make up of the modern Celtic nations - assuming that Celitc (the language) developed in Spain (as Koch does) or even along the Atlantic Seaboard (as Cunliffe does) it is easy to find a large number of Semitic speakers in the area. The Phoenicians had large colonies in what is now Spain (for example New Carthage was there and the Romans had to fight them in Spain in order to win as that was where much of their power base was) this gives an easy and direct route for such genetic mixing and also could explain that contested semitic understratum theory for the Celtic languages which was proposed by John Morris Jones, Heinich Wagner and a host of other academics working in the field. Until Koch no one could see how it could have happened (without the original inhabitants of was is now the British isles speaking a form of Semitic but if you factor in the large Semitic speaking population of Spain you have an answer).

Absolutely. Thank you.