Given your reactions to some of the more popular episodes of Trek so far, I was half expecting at least one of you to state that you hated this particular episode!🙃

In 1975 the Swedish Chef tried to warn us about the Borg, but no one listened... or at least no one understood.

Remember this is from the 80's. Most hive minds in popular media stole the idea from the Borg. It wasn't over done when this episode aired.

These guys are gonna love DS9.

De Lancie. Pronounced : De lan see.

In this episode, I find this is an example of “hive mind” done right. Each borg is more like a cell in a body than an individual. The borg ship is more like an animal simply hunting and feeding and sees the Enterprise as food. In that view the away team getting no reaction makes sense. They didn’t do anything to trigger a kind of ‘immune response’ from the ship.

The idea of children on the ship is that the Enterprise is a deep space ship meant to be out for years at a time and the addition of bringing families onboard made life easier for the crew.

I love that you do these deep dive discussions after watching the episode. Nobody could in good faith claim you are not making transformative content that is WAY above your average reaction channel stuff.

2:50 whenever I hear Sonia say "Oh Captain ' I always expect her to follow it up with "My Captain" lol

That Shatner plea to Q was spot on. And totally had me on the floor. Bravo!

This wouldn’t have worked as a pilot. You needed to have Picard established as a poet/diplomat/explorer who is trusted and followed by his crew without question and while is humble, is not one to easily ask for help, especially from Q based on their past experiences. Meeting the Borg mid season sets them up as a possible opponent in the future… meeting them in a pilot, sets them up as THE villain of the series.

Yesterday's enterprise and this, as you mentioned, is really when this became its own show. The Borg are freaken scary when you realize their true nature.

The Borg is the perfect example of technology, overtaking the needs of any species as tools that take over a society to a point where, humaniods become the tools of technology instead of the other way around. In TOS it was the episode "The Ultimate computer" that first touched on this, well before computers were a thing where we today take for granted as helpful tools, and ways of entertaining ourselves. There is an underlying fear to many people of the dangers of too much technology developing faster than we can handle, or fully understand the potential dangers of where it might lead. The Borg is essentially, is another form of runaway tech, and makes for an interesting 'villain' to think about.

If TNG was a video game, this would be the end of the tutorial/act 1. We got to know our main NPCs, we learned about the abilities of our character, allies and our ship (introducing the holo deck, all that), we got introduced to our main factions and then the game decided to show us the area we are completely underleveled for, got to run around in it a bit, every oponent has a skull over their head, and then got sent back to where we were supposed to be with that glimpse of "Oh I'm going to face THAT at some point?". I do like that this was done in a regular episode. Feel like nowadays this would 100% be a finale with a post credit scene to add on to it.

The hive mind isn't a lazy writing trope here used as a substitute for creativity; it's a fundamental design choice for the Borg. It's very deliberate in what the writers wanted to create in a civilisation to contrast with the Federation.

THERE'S A BORG CUBE BEHIND YOU !!! 😮

Wow, back in the 90's those commercials didn't sound so cheezy but they sure are in retrospect! 😬

I had a dream a few months back (mid season 1) that you guys broke your cardinal rule & decided to start watching DS9. I was yelling at my screen "No! You don't even know about the Borg yet!"

To their credit, the Borg produced one of the world's best tennis player: Bjorn Borg.

Cetacean Ops! No spoilers, never made it on the show. There are blueprints showing space on board the Enterprise-D for its dolphin and whale crewmembers 😅🐋🐬

Knowing how this all plays out... Without spoiling anything, let's just say that you're going to look back at this commentary and laugh someday.

I like the detail that the Borg intruder doesn't beam into the Bridge or some random hallway, but into the main engineering room. Remember that the Borg ship is 'strangely generalized in design', with no identifiably distinct sections of the ship, at least as far as Federation design principles can tell. The Borg ship scanned the Enterprise with no context about how they do things. They saw where most of their power was being generated, and decided that was a good place to start their investigation.

I don't think this would work as the pilot. It does rely on messing with the expectation that our heroes can overcome the odds, that the Federation and the Enterprise are a powerhouse of a government and a powerhouse of a ship. And that expectation was built up for a season and a half. Now, suddenly they are outclassed.

As much as the hit chocolate encounter seems out of place, i think the intention was to introduce the theme of "first impressions " since they're about to meet the Borg for the first time.

This I think is one of the turning points of TNG, when it stops being just a modernized sequel to TOS, and comes into its own as a series.

I always loved how the Borg ship just looks like a cube of scrap metal... the Borg has no vanity and no reason to make their ship "look cool," it just has to be functional. And so it's just a giant cube. Strat trek at its most brilliant!

The Galaxy class is filled with Labs of various types. Astrobiology, Exobotany, Exoarchaeology, Exolinguistics, Steller Cartography, Steller Dynamics, Medical research...... most are Starfleet but many are civilian researchers who wouldn't get to do this type of work on a Starbase.

watching your discussions when you guys are trying to predict where you think things can go from here or saying things you wish to see in the future is so entertaining when we already know the answers and know how happy or disappointed you will be.

6:40 This is but the first instance of "when Guinan calls you, shit's about to go down" rule.

With Kirk, I'd see him and Scotty whipping up a Anti-Matter charge that could ("rup apart half a continent") beemed into the center of the cube and setting it off as the warp out.

I remember buying some Star Trek Micro Machines toys in the early 90s and among them was a Borg Cube where most of the stats listed under it were just UNKNOWN. Really added to the mystery and menace of them.

There is one thing that I hear you guys say often "its over done" like in this instance when you referred to the hive mind is overdone , you need to keep in mind when this came out, it was NOT over done, and they did it right from day 1 Keep this in mind every time you think "this is overdone" you are not reviewing a current day series, its a series from the 1980s where more then likely they were the ones setting the standards before anyone else was doing it

This is the start of where TNG gets its chops.

To make this the pilot they would have to extend it to a 2 hour premiere like Farpoint and do a bunch of character intros and showing off the new ship and features. Maybe Picard tries EVERYTHING before asking Q, gets ideas and advice from the whole team so everyone has something to do or a project to work on. Do the saucer separation, all the weapons, etc. AND then you probably gotta combine this plot with the original "Trial of Humanity" Q intro, to understand the full extent of the relationship between Picard and the crew and Q. They couldnt just wave it off like they did here by referencing past episodes in one line.

Seeing that tv teaser brought back all sorts of memories as a kid. Nostalgia. Man.....i miss that time....

The hive mind trope that you are tired of was based on this episode with the Borg. Writers use this as the Borg type villain in other works. Funny you mentioned Total Recall given the actress playing Sonya Gomez was in that movie. No bones about it The Outposts that were scooped up are the same thing to get scooped up on those planets by the Borg. The Borg that died wasn't taken back. He was disintegrated. You can see burn marks in the carpet and take note that the other Borg takes off pieces the deceased Borg with him. That's going to be important.

Oh my gosh, I just found you guys.I'm so happy to see new trekies.Watching and commenting on each video. I might have to go back and see the ones before

Back when this first aired this was the first “hive mind” I ever recall seeing on tv or film.

To be fair, the Hive Mind thing.... TNG was in the 80's. Probably before other Hive Mind things you have seen. Give them props for being OG.

I grew up with my family watching star trek tos, and then TNG... I had watched tos as a kid and liked it, but i didn't fall in love until TNG... then I fell in love with all of "gene Roddenberry's Star Trek" This is one of the greatest TV series out there. I can't wait for you to see the whole thing. It's gonna blow your mind. The writing, the detail. The depth and planning... I truly love the next generation, and it's where everything began for me. So, it will always have a soft spot in my heart. Once finished your gonna truly love the next generation. But then you star trek deep space nine, and voyager to watch... which I love both just as much as TNG but in their own unique ways. I truly hope you watch these. DS9 grew on me so much that I think I like it even more than TNG... I didn't even think that was possible... I don't wanna give away spoilers but.... if Alex Watches DS9, he will realize one of his dreams has come true and he doesn't even realize it.... and you'll both see things never seen in Star Trek. A more realistic view on what Star Trek would be like in our real future. In my opinion... And Star Trek voyager is literally one of my fantasy dream scenarios of what an epic adventure would be like..... each adds so much to star trek, I believe all 3 are necessary to truly show the world of gene Roddenberry's star trek... I hope you watch them... I love your guys channel. A true new fan and subscriber here. Been watching you guys about 3 months now and I'm really enjoying all of your star trek content. And if you watch all 3 series I'll be here to stay... Keep up the good work guys. 👏 👍

It should be noted that the Borg were responsible for the missing colonies in “The Neutral Zone”, at the end of the first season. So, they were planting seeds for this even back then.

Hey guys! I've been having fun watching your Star Trek reactions for the last few months. Just thought to weigh in on this discussion. After episodes like this and "Measure Of A Man", I had always thought this was the point where Star Trek: The Next Generation had found its own identity as a show and hit it's stride--season 2 clinker of a finale notwithstanding. After this moment, and into season 3, TNG was at its peak. Don't get me wrong, I loved the show from the moment it premiered: I remember seeing "... Farpoint" when I was 10 and I loved TNG. From here on out, it goes from strength to strength!

so interesting thing to note. In Q's last episode when the other Q pulled him away, it was pretty much the same plot as the TOS episode with Tralaine. A trickster with seemingly omnipotent powers using the Enterprise crew in his games, with the omnipotent being being seemingly banished by the end.

In this episode, Guinan tells how her people were decimated by the Borg. Guinan against Q would be like an ant against Galactus

That's right, Star Trek has a new villain! 70's Swedish tennis legend Bjorn Borg! Star Fleet cannot hope to overcome his unorthodox backhand and powerful ground stroke. Run!

29:45 Get the technical manual out and let's check it. There is enough information available to do some guesswork about affected people and/or families.

I grew up watching TNG/DS9/Voyager in their original runs, so listening to two guys with a fresh take and curiosity about where characters like the Borg will go is really intriguing.

Alex channeling Kirk win win situation

It's ridiculous, but it makes me nervous seeing that Borg cube lurking in the window behind you.

There are aspects of the Borg lore that are adjusted slightly as time goes on, for script/drama reasons. I think they get more interesting and are used to explore some interesting philosophical/ethical issues.

It's the casual disregard that the Borg show that can make them so disquieting. They are not being cruel, or driven by greed, etc. It reminds me a an old SF story, where, due to some unusual circumstances, a creature forms out of what is basically pond scum. It kills at least one person, but not for food, or blood lust, but just because it it is curious as to what it was. It pulls him to pieces with the same consideration as we would give to splitting a rock in two to see what is inside.

I like the Sonia character just because she seems normal, shes not perfect, shes not stoic, every other character is so competent, so dedicated, so straight laced. Theres a future character that fits this idea as well

I feel like in at least a couple instances we did see Kirk beg with powerful beings for the lives of his ship and crew.

One of this season's best, glad you guys loved it!

The only thing the Borg feel is hunger, and they feel it all the time.

Listening to you talk about the Borg, Oh..........., this is going to get good!!

On whether or not Kirk would beg for help or agree to be humiliated, he has done it a number of times, like offering himself to an enemy in exchange for the safety of his ship and crew.

About the families on board and the Enterprise amenities… the thing is, if I remember correctly, The Enterprise’s Farpoint mission was the beginning of a twenty-year mission (as opposed to the TOS’s five-year). It’s not directly stated in the episode; pretty sure it’s from Encounter at Farpoint’s novelization (again, my memory maybe wrong). That would certainly explain the need for families and living quarters/recreation. The Enterprise-D is basically an “ark” capable of self-sustenance for two decades if need be. That’s long enough that one could end up lost in deep space long enough to actually need a second generation living in and learning to operate the ship for survival purposes.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, I love listening to you, guys discuss these episodes! Especially because sometimes you’re not too far off from what comes in the future!

Watching this episode for the first time in a long time, I was surprised that a main aspect of the Borg was not introduced in this episode. I'll say no more.

Love this episode , was definitely a turning point for the series ....Q was great in it too compared to other episodes he is in ...

Assuming those outposts along the Neutral Zone were destroyed by the Borg - doesn't that mean they are already awfully close? How much time does the Federation have to prepare and what can they even hope to accomplish against this threat?

Fantastic observations on a Very Special Episode of TGN. We're on a peak right now. Coming next: A deep valley!

Ensign to Captain is pretty much the idea behind Star Trek Online. You're initiated at Starfleet Academy, get assigned to your first ship, and then... space drama!!! MANY actors from the Trek series return to voice future versions of their characters. Not the best game, not the best Trek game, but it got me through some of the darker, post-Abrams times.

Ensign Gomez was the perfect misdirect for where the episode was actually heading. It’s awkward on purpose, leading to the weird corridor walk and then the Q twist. It’s a mechanism for putting the viewer off balance to make what’s to come more uncomfortable for the viewer.

PEOPLE -- The quotes spoilers. The "you ain't seen nothin' yet" spoilers. The ______ ain't coming back spoilers. PLEASE think before you type.

If I remember correctly, right before Star Trek 5 came out a lot of people were making fun of how old the cast was at this point and were surprised they were getting another movie. I have been rewatching TNG and I'm on season 6 and things do get better from season 3 on, I think some fans have forgotten that through all 7 seasons their are bad episodes - some really bad ones are to come. So while most episodes are better I'd say it's no smooth sailing. Just a side effect of having like 24 episodes a season - they can't all be gems.

Colum Meanie and John DeLance should meet someday

This episode, aside from paying off the mystery started in The Neutral Zone and introducing this really intimidating faction that can't be reasoned with, also represented a big shift in Q's character for the better. Yeah, he may still be a bit of a prankster/troll, but he's gone from judging humanity in general and Picard and his crew in particular for being "savages", and instead it seems he's started to recognize their potential, and has in turn adopted a role more akin to a mentor. Sure, you could argue that Q COULD have introduced them to the borg without 18 of the crew dying, and even after the fact Q could just zap them back from the dead. But at the end of the day, the galaxy is a big place, and the federation has only explored a small fraction of it. Sooner or later they would have run into the borg or something else similarly dangerous, and without Q there to save them, the entire ship might have been lost. Like Picard said, they needed a kick in their complacency. Back during Kirk's era, the federation had the klingons and romulans to keep them on their toes, and there was a much more military feel to starfleet. Now they've had peace with the klingons for decades and the romulans have been absent till recently. Now there are families on starships, and it's like starfleet got soft after decades of nobody threatening them. The 18 people Picard lost really makes it sink in that "this is real", no get out of jail free cards out in the dark corners of the galaxy. If Q showed up to save humanity every time we encountered a threat, we would stagnate and never reach our potential. So yes, this was a harsh lesson from Q, but absolutely not one born of malice. It's a great direction for his character.

Oh, I’m very excited to see your reaction to Star Trek 5.

"They're not going to spend two whole years getting back..." Yeah, I imagine that journey would be incredibly dull. ;P

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Borg don't actually say their best-known catchphrase in this episode.

Yeah, Q is pretty cool, I always liked him.

The Borg is my favorite Star Trek enemy

Great discussion, guys. Thank you.

Gomez is great, for me, her character always made sense. But I can't tell you why.

Picard put himself and the crew in danger by being cocky and thinking they could handle anything. Q's Lesson was not to teach them to ask for his help, it was to teach them a lesson about not being cocky and be prepared for what's to come. This wouldn't have happened if picard wasn't being arrogant

Live comments are fun!!

Agree what you said about the happy ending. Always have and always will love TOS, but the happy ending "ha ha ha" was unfortunately too common in the original but that was also part of what made City on the edge of forever so powerful. An edgier ending.

I can't wait to see you react to what comes from these building blocks. ❤

15:01 I wouldn't worry too much about the origins of borg babies. "From the look of it...." RIker is making an assumption.

Hi again guys; there is a KZfaq video about guinan & Q. Also,I just recently re- purchased the Borg fan collective DVD which covers Tng, voyager. Highly recommend it to watch

"John DeLance?" Eeeee!

My still to this day issue with TV shows vs Movies is just how often the TV show is forced to adjust to the movie while the movie fully ignores the TV show. Im waiting for a time when the movies will keep and use the TV show canon.

Gomez should have brought Picard a cup of Earl Grey on the bridge in the last scene and then spill that on him as well, then Ryker rolls his eyes and fade to credits. Perfecto 👌

You guys are gonna love ds9

APPLAUSE for that Kirk impression! 😄⭐

Speaking of "that's just how it is", not happy endings, TOS had there's "Let's get the Hell out of here..."

Of course Kirk would have asked Q for help. This is the same guy who offered to have himself beamed over to the Reliant in STII in order to save his crew.

But encounter at farpoint had Groppler Zorn.

Let's be clear- Our heros lost this one. They lost completely. They were only spared by a god at the last minute but this was a loss. Picard knows this. He WILL have to inform Starfleet and they will HAVE to prepare as best they can. That was the point of that last scene. The question now is, without the Borg there to research or learn about, can they prepare well enough for thier inevitable 2nd encounter? And when that day comes, there would be no guarantee that Q would be around to save their asses the second time around.

Definitely will see how families on the Enterprise are affected in the series

As to that extra long shot of the Enterprise at the almost-end - I have experienced that as a reemphasis on the vulnerability of the Enterprise, flying alone in this huge dangerous universe. Everything look sort of different now that we have encountered this enemy that does not respond to any of the usual Star Trek strategies. Picard is great at speaking and dialoguing, but the Borg don't communicate, which makes them extra scary. Weapons don't work, diplomacy doesn't work. Brave new world.

I do not imagine there would be very many reasons for a Ten-Forward bartender to call the bridge. "Captain" is the highest rank indicated by the silver pips. Flag officers have a different rank symbology.

You've seen Hive mind in other media BECAUSE of Star Trek

In 90 years or so you may get to the currently running series Lower Decks which is about the people doing the small jobs on a starship

20:30 Those ST:TNG happy endings, like the death of Edith Keeler and the death of Miramanee...

Take a look at the character Lord Dread from Captain Power and the Soldiers of The Future which premiered in September of 1987 and tell me Star Trek didn't "borrow" that costume concept for first appearance of The Borg in "Q Who," shown for the first time in May of 1989.

I suspect that after their first few encounters with Q the crew, and probably most of Star Fleet, were trained to try and ignore him rather than react to him. He’s both omnipotent and narcissistic, so declining to give him attention is basically your only defense against him. That’s why the crew didn’t react directly when he showed up.

I dont think the hivemind thing was all that common when this came out :-) Perhaps I am wrong.