not really.

I I agree. If government was truly interested in prosperity for locals, why not lower taxes to a flat rate of say 10%? No, they’d rather deter outside investment and continue robbing the poor Portuguese. Its a socialistic country after all. I was going to apply for residency in 2024 but now looking at Balkan countries like Serbia. Portugal already happened. What made it so popular is now in its past.

@@glicmathan1771 lol, what an ignorant comment.

Portuguese native here. I absolutely agree. It's so easy to find a scapegoat to blame for all your misfortunes, and it's easy to blame foreigners for it. But doesn't really matter much for politicians either way if they know this, because most people don't, so it's good for votes even if bad for the country

@@PortugalDoor Is very Portuguese to blame politicians, but in this case they were spot on.

Carl, pls tell Gilda that she needs to check ppl's understanding of how taxes work in PT before they decide to pull the plug from the process. If you look at any videos about end of NHR, ppl talk about taxes at 48%. Clearly they are thinking their entire income will be taxed at 48%. I copied this example from a different website about progressive tax. Do I Pay the Same Percentage of Tax on All My Income? No. With a progressive tax, you only pay your highest percentage on the portion of income that exceeds the minimum threshold. The following is not representative of PT tax rates. For example, in x particular country....if a single person makes $100,000 in 2022, they fall into the 24% bracket (as well as lower brackets). However, only the portion of their income that exceeds the bracket's minimum threshold of over $89,075 is taxed at that rate. Thus, income is taxed at 10% on the first $10,275, then 12% on income up to $41,775, and 22% on income up to $89,075. In this scenario, only $10,925 ($100,000 - $89,075) would be taxed at 24%. Plus there are deductions from the income...yearly personal allowance per person, as well as for products/services purchased in PT when giving your NIF number at time of purchase. For example, groceries at supermarkets, clothing, veterinary visits, dentistry work, eye glasses, rx, construction materials for house repair, etc. There are limits of the deduction for each category, but it can lower the income such that your final number fits into a different tax bracket.

Carl, your websites are not accessible from US...they say it's a hosting error.

They worked later on last night.

Carl, fresh portugal YT channel has something of a fastrack visa called express interest so that ppl can get NHR. They are asking for assistance from "potential partners" to help clients as they are overwhelmed with interest. You need all the things that the d7 would need but somehow it's being rushed through who caught in middle. Perhaps you can interview and find out about it. Instead of potential expats saying no....everyone could work collaboratively together to get folks there.

Yeah I can't afford for the Portuguese government take half of my pension

Roth can be used as a non taxed thing. I tried to refer to a tax company who has info on their website about this but yt blocked my comment. See fb tax benefits for expats in portugal grp, the tax company company who supposed the group has a blog which details how to do the roth so not taxed.

Me too leaving today waiting for our ride to DIA 3 rd trip this year 3 weeks scouting trip. Had planned to move to Lousa and meeting our realtor there. She’s probably going to go out of business now as most of her clients are expats and won’t be buying anything with this kind of confusion. Can’t sell here because of interest rates can’t buy there because of the tax’s it’s just a long vacation now.

@@iwanttovote6053 I can't seem to find my original comments to you. Here is the 50,000 euro pension example you asked me about. Using PT tax chart, example for 50,000 Euros and not taking any deductions into consideration which would normally reduce total income before applying to the tax bands. (Deductions include a personal allowance per pension/income, also deductions can be taken for any products/services purchased in PT when your NIF is given at time of purchase. These include groceries at supermarkets, dentist visits, veterinary visits, rx, clothing, construction materials for house repairs,hair dresser/barber visits, medical visits at private facilities, restaurants, etc. Each category has a limit for how much you can deduct. Still being able to deduct all these expenses from your total income means your total income will be lower and probably land you in a lower tax band...thus paying less tax. The first band is up to €0 to €7,479 at 14.5% 7479 x 14.5% = tax €1,084.46 The second band is €7,479.01 to €11,284 at 23% 11,284 - 7479 = 3805, 3805 x .23 = €875.15, tax = 875.15 The third band is €11,284.01 - €15,992 at 26.5% 15992 - 11284.01 = 4707.99, 4707.99 x .265 = 1247.62, tax = €1,247.62 The fourth band is €15,992.01 - €20,700 at 28.5% 20700 - 15992.01 = 4707.99, 4707.99 x .285 = 1341.78, so tax = €1,341.78 The fifth band is €20,700.01 - €26,355 at 35% 26355 - 20700.01 = 5654.99, 5654.99 x .35 = 1979.25, so tax = €1,979.25 The sixth band is €26,355.01 - €38,632 at 37% 38632 - 26355.01 = 12276.99, 12276.99 x .37 = 4542.12, so tax = €4,542.49 And the last band for this example of €50,000 income is €38,632.01 - €50,000 at 43.5%, 50000 - 38632.01 = 11367.99, 11367.99 x .435 = 4945.08, so tax = €4,945.08 Add each band's tax: 1,084.46 + 875.15 + 1,247.62 + 1,341.78 + 1,979.25 + 4,542.49 + 4,945.08 = total tax to pay for the year = 16,015.83 If your 50,000 euro pension was taxed at 48%, it would be a tax of 24,000. So everyone who is thinking their income is going to be taxed at 48% is not understanding how the PT tax system works

The general (not specific to any person) Portuguese tax table for American expats is available online if you search "portugal tax rate"-- I panicked at first but found the tax rate and feel much, much more secure. Give it a shot and see. Best.

Just started our processes, and also already bought a state there.😳

@@soniasousawachholz4496 funny they have no states

Have you considered that your entire income is not taxed at 48%? Also consider that for things/ services you've purchased with the NIF you will be able to deduct from your income. Do I Pay the Same Percentage of Tax on All My Income? No. With a progressive tax, you only pay your highest percentage on the portion of income that exceeds the minimum threshold. The following is not representative of PT tax rates. For example, if a single person makes $100,000 in 2022, they fall into the 24% bracket (as well as lower brackets). However, only the portion of their income that exceeds the bracket's minimum threshold of over $89,075 is taxed at that rate. Thus, income is taxed at 10% on the first $10,275, then 12% on income up to $41,775, and 22% on income up to $89,075. In this scenario, only $10,925 ($100,000 - $89,075) would be taxed at 24%.

The portugese tax system is so confusing. So if USA citizen returies in portugal as a resident under D7 and had $3500 monthly income from US social security and 401K what would they owe portugal yearly

Thank you. Glad it was helpful!

Nothing to do with basic supply and demand heh? It isn’t going to be any different without NHR! It’s the same dynamics in Spain/Italy and Greece

@@maxflight777 yes.. not enought offer to cover the speculation. If that dinamics exist, is unfair. Governments should act.

@@luisfilipe534 The Portuguese government should regulate Airbnb the same as what New York State and Florence, Italy are about to mandate: Zero for stays less than 30 days. Other regular tenants complain of loud noise and security issues in these residential buildings.

@@periscope7731 Agree. And prevent non residents to buy houses here, due to severe lack of houses to live or rent.

@@luisfilipe534 Don’t worry my brother. I am of Portuguese descent. Therefore, I am in solidarity and understand your sentiments. Portugal should be benefiting its own people first.

Only tax incentive program talked about by anyone is one for freelancers who those who want to work for a PT company or higher education....for teaching or doing something in sciences for which a person would need a PhD. For that program it was supposed to be a sliding scale up to 50% off your taxes. The proposal is expected to be passed because there is a majority in the govt, same as Pres. The PS party is supposedly trying to be known as responding to what the ppl want....which unfortunately is bad for PT in the long run. If more expats chose not to live in the big cities when they arrived...this problem could have been avoided...since there was not enough affordable places to live for the Portuguese to live in the city cities...let alone all the expats trying to move there. If PT had done some preplanning and reinstalled rail lines to the former larger cities in the interior of the country....folks wouldnt have felt like needed to stay along the Coastal rail line. 30+ yrs ago, there were rail lines to Tras-os-Montes, up the Douro valley, Viseu, Guarda as well as buses between cities that were more frequent...but because of population decline in those areas and low ridership, they canceled the rail schedules. Some of the rail lines still exist but others they have made into walking/biking trails similar to other countries.

I'm in the same boat. Would be late 2025 for me

hehe @@Pauln71

@@FilipeSilva1 hehe what?

Looks like it is the only thing that the country manages to do fast.

​@maryr7593 they're big leeches! 🤢🤑

Thanks for your reply here. I agree; surely the answer to a lack of housing is to build more! Not reduce the number of people requiring them. Unless of course the government actually just wants to reduce the population? Anyway, right now we are trying to decide between Portugal or Mauritius to emigrate to. Both offer remote worker visas. But today I found out that Mauritius only has a flat 15 % tax rate!? No bands; just that one rate. Is this one of the countries you're referring to maybe? So I'm thinking of Mauritius now. But it does have a few issues; it's not food secure; the country imports 75% of it's food. Plus, foreigners can only purchase property or land in very specific housing schemes which are fairly high value (£300,000+). So these are definite drawbacks. Having said that, I'm now looking to get more info regarding emigrating financially (not just physically). Don't suppose you know anything about that at all? 🙏🏾

Search YT for expats in Spain...there may be vids with info. There are tons of vids about France and Italy for folks who want to move. So I would image there are Spain vids too.

Not sure if Spain or Portugal is a good place to retire especially without the tax incentives. Both countries are run by socialist governments whos solution to everything is to tax more. Also both countries have extremely high debt to gdp and poor performing economies. I foresee alot of trouble coming their way in the not too distant future.

@@jw841 what other countries are good for retirement, especially in Europe? I've heard of Italy and Cyprus, but not sure about either. Regarding Spain and Portugal, I've heard in Spain taxes are a little less.

Or perhaps more simply, "How can I have a good quality of life?" That won't be accomplished by devastating your financial security

Seems financially irresponsible. Just doing what feels good in this case will cost you, literally

@@David-ii8nu if you're Canadian you will know we don't use VFS but rely on the impenetrable Portuguese Consulates in Canada online form before can access an appointment. Two months for submission through online form to process because poor IT, finally booked end of November appointment on Saturday. How long before receive D7 stamp into passport? Emails requesting earlier appointment but nothing can be done except wait. Why get all uptight if might be taxed as I'm taxed in Canada as a retiree. it's the place, culture and weather I prefer, not the tax benefits.

@@janebaldock7995 And the incredible assortment of freshly caught seafood of the day and succulent, locally farmed produce at your disposal within a day or two of harvesting. One can’t live one’s best life while supporting optimal metabolic processes without high quality nutrition!

I dont know what your chart means but Social security is taxed in pt.

I wrote same comment in another spot as I couldnt find my original comments. Here's the tax for the 50,000 euro pension you originally asked about. Using PT tax chart, example for 50,000 Euros and not taking any deductions into consideration which would normally reduce total income before applying to the tax bands. (Deductions include a personal allowance per pension/income, also deductions can be taken for any products/services purchased in PT when your NIF is given at time of purchase. These include groceries at supermarkets, dentist visits, veterinary visits, rx, clothing, construction materials for house repairs,hair dresser/barber visits, medical visits at private facilities, restaurants, etc. Each category has a limit for how much you can deduct. Still being able to deduct all these expenses from your total income means your total income will be lower and probably land you in a lower tax band...thus paying less tax. The first band is up to €0 to €7,479 at 14.5% 7479 x 14.5% = tax €1,084.46 The second band is €7,479.01 to €11,284 at 23% 11,284 - 7479 = 3805, 3805 x .23 = €875.15, tax = 875.15 The third band is €11,284.01 - €15,992 at 26.5% 15992 - 11284.01 = 4707.99, 4707.99 x .265 = 1247.62, tax = €1,247.62 The fourth band is €15,992.01 - €20,700 at 28.5% 20700 - 15992.01 = 4707.99, 4707.99 x .285 = 1341.78, so tax = €1,341.78 The fifth band is €20,700.01 - €26,355 at 35% 26355 - 20700.01 = 5654.99, 5654.99 x .35 = 1979.25, so tax = €1,979.25 The sixth band is €26,355.01 - €38,632 at 37% 38632 - 26355.01 = 12276.99, 12276.99 x .37 = 4542.12, so tax = €4,542.49 And the last band for this example of €50,000 income is €38,632.01 - €50,000 at 43.5%, 50000 - 38632.01 = 11367.99, 11367.99 x .435 = 4945.08, so tax = €4,945.08 Add each band's tax: 1,084.46 + 875.15 + 1,247.62 + 1,341.78 + 1,979.25 + 4,542.49 + 4,945.08 = total tax to pay for the year = 16,015.83 If your 50,000 euro pension was taxed at 48%, it would be a tax of 24,000. So everyone who is thinking their income is going to be taxed at 48% is not understanding how the PT tax system works

YES! Mary, you are a doll to do what I did and figure this all out for this 50kEUR example! I just copied and pasted the exact same tax chart in my comment so it doesn't look right but they are the same as your numbers. The reduction amounts in my post for each band are (in EUR rounded) 0, 602, 1191, 2508, 3,008, and 5,956. This means, in this example if we are correct, that a 50k EUR pension (-ish) would be taxed at 16,015 with deductions brings the final tax very low! So, if this is the case, which I have time to verify, I actually can make the move from this perspective.

@@iwanttovote6053 Actually someone else who lives in PT did the initial math ...I wanted to make sure I had the correct understanding so this gal did the tax calculation for your example. I added the math work to show you and others who might be reading...how the tax calculation was made. (Definitely not a 48% tax burden.) You asked about US social security...it is taxed in PT. If your SS income is on top of the 50,000 EUR, you'll need to convert the $ to Eur and add to the pension. The US has a foreign tax credit that seems to cover the SS income and any tax paid to PT ...if the percentage you paid to PT is higher than what you would have paid US. (There are some yt channels about french tax and their examples of using the Foreign US tax credit...even though it is looking at the French tax treaty vs the Portuguese tax treaty...but it's the same tax credit...so it created an example that was easy to understand.) Your question above asked about deductions per band...which confused me. The deductions and personal allowance are subtracted from your total income before the PT tax chart is used. There are limits in each category of good/service per year... But I havent looked up those details. But for your example...the most tax would be the 16,xxx figure that I have already forgotten what it was. (Tablet doesn't multitask well...so I can't see what either of us wrote.) If you have Roth IRAs as others have referred to...there is a strategy laid out by the tax grp that I cant seem to mention without having my comments removed. (See next line.) For whatever reason YT seems to be removing my comments whenever I refer to a particular tax for expats tax group website and fb grp on taxes. I don't get how this

@@iwanttovote6053 16,015 tax is nothing to sneeze at....but compared to 24,000 tax (@48%)....it is less. The idea of having to pay 16,015 for tax sounds astounding to me...but because the income isn't being taxed by PT throughout the year...makes it seem larger to me. Now how do we try to educate everyone else on YT who is misunderstanding how PT tax works?

The problem is that Portugal's tax rate is higher than almost any other country in the world bar Scandanavian ones. So, people who were comfortable moving from say 30% highest slab to 20% flat income + SS, now have a tax burden of 48% (highest slab) + SS. That's a big stretch in anybody's finances and it's not simply a case of someone not liking portugal. How much tax you pay is a big factor for people considering moving to any country. If the tax in a newer country is higher than the previous country you're coming from then obviously, there will be less takers as is currently happening with NHR going away. One real example: I currently pay approx 5-10% tax in my country. I was fine with paying 20% + SS to move to Portugal, but 48%+SS is a giant ask. It makes absolutely no sense for me to move from 5% tax to 48% + SS. That's whom lack of NHR is going to affect the most.

@@youtindia Yes, but the taxes you pay in your country is deducted from what you have to pay of the Portuguese tax & it depends on how much you make throughout the year.

@@stephaniedaniels8331 Dude, nobody will move to Portugal if that means an increased tax burden. It's not a viable package anymore. Portugal taxes are much higher than even other developed countries. At that point, might as well move to those other countries instead.

You will still need to purchase private health insurance because the SNS healthcare is only used in emergency situations. Private health insurance covers the private clinics and private hospitals. Your routine health care should be from the private health care facilities because trying to get routine care from SNS...you will wait a long time....or conversely they only give appts on the same day if you get in line at 8am (as one particular yt vid showed.)

@@youtindia Dude, calm down. You have your opinions and I have mine. Move around with that…trying to argue with people. 🙄😒

Same policy there right?

Only if they are in those limited phd categories..science, research, teach in higher ed....have to wait to see how it is fleshed out

Nah, those are for the NHR. the 50% reduction is a modified version of the return program@@maryr7593

Only if you are an EU citizen.

Yeah. I just found out yesterday. Thx

Unfortunately real estate speculators really don't help the Portuguese people

Neither does being dependent on their government.

This is what happens when taxes are set too high. Nobody can afford to do anything.