Nick Butler: Investigating the Chinese Swimming Doping Scandal

Рет қаралды 7,700

Күн бұрын

Nick Butler is an English journalist who has been investigating doping allegations in Chinese swimming for years. In early 2021, 23 Chinese swimmers tested positive for a banned substance at a domestic competition in China. While authorities claimed contamination caused the results, international bodies accepted this without thorough review, leading to accusations of a mishandled investigation and calls for further transparency.
OUR SWIMMING PARTNERS:
EO SWIM BETTER:⁠ Analyse your stroke technique with eo's SwimBETTER handsets. Go to eolab.com/SwimBETTER, and use code BRETT at checkout to get 9 months free on a single gold annual membership with any handset purchase.
www.eolab.com/swimbetter
BRATTER PA, IMMIGRATION LAW FIRM
Exclusive Immigration and Agency Representation of Athletes, Entrepreneurs, Artists, Investors and Entertainers
www.bratterpa.com/
BEINE WELLNESS BUILDING & GENETIC TESTING: Individualize your nutrition with personalized plans from Erica Beine. Eat, supplement, and recover based on your genetics!
beinewellnessbuilding.net/
SWIMSTRONG DRYLAND: SwimStrong Dryland inspires and changes the lives of competitive swimmers through strength training, leadership training, motivation and care.
swimstrongdryland.com/
IMAGINE SWIMMING: NYC's Premier Swim School is looking for instructors and coaches!
Lessons for all ages, from Baby Swim to adults, along with competitive club teams.
www.imagineswimming.com/
INTL SWIMMING HALL OF FAME: Keep our sport's history alive by joining the 1 in 1000 Club!
www.ishof.org/one-in-a-thousand/
Subscribe to this KZfaq Channel: / @insidewithbretthawke
Listen on Apple Podcasts:
podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
#swimming #worldaquatics #paris2024
00:00 Hello Nick Butler
01:25 23 Chinese swimmers test positive for TMZ
03:50 WADA & World Aquatics accepted the contamination
05:30 How is WADA funded?
06:47 Trimetazidine
07:45 CHINADA
08:10 ITA
09:25 USADA
10:10 Why did China turn themselves in?
11:45 When did you begin investigating?
13:00 Domestic meet during COVID
14:45 Positive - Negative - Positive
16:00 TMZ doping cycle
17:00 Only pill form?
19:45 Kitchen tested two months after
20:45 Who came up with the contamination theory?
22:00 World Aquatics role
24:00 Azerbaijan field hockey ecstasy case
26:00 TMZ found in 3 areas
28:00 Did the athletes know?
29:20 Creating the documentary
30:38 How did the Australians find out first?
32:00 Where are we today?
33:15 WADA Emergency Press Conference
34:25 Adam Peaty's Statement
34:35 Denis Cotterell's article
36:15 Any other instances?
36:50 No punishment, move forward?
37:37 Reallocating medals
39:20 Pressure to Reinvestigate
40:45 Keeping it under wraps for 3 years
42:50 Fairness & Consistency
44:33 What's next?

Пікірлер: 108

@KyleMillis Ай бұрын

More well informed fact based conversations need to happen in Swimming, like this! Why is everyone so afraid to speak about this?! Thanks for standing up Brett & Nick!

@InsidewithBrettHawke Ай бұрын

Thanks kyle!

@pelhamh Ай бұрын

Nice work Brett! I remember competing with you in Australia - you are nearly as good a podcaster as you were a sprinter! 🎉

@TheSwimsuitGuy Ай бұрын

Very insightful

@cayleyguimaraes9672 Ай бұрын

Too many questions, too much secrecy...

@ronnyolivotti9049 Ай бұрын

it was a hospital kitchen in the cardiology department... given the type of pollutant 🤣🤣🤣

@ltdswimmer Ай бұрын

Good to finally have some level of investigative journalistic insight on this topic.

@rongbai1001 Ай бұрын

The TMZ ban started in 2014 but the drug was developed in the 70's. Are there any world records achieved by athletes using TMZ before 2014? How about more advanced drugs that are not on the banned list yet but only accessible to countries with highly advanced pharmaceutical industry?

@realalbertan Ай бұрын

Russian samples >> 2006 onward had TMZ. Part of testing is research.

@user-bu6dz3qz7r Ай бұрын

U.S is on the top list to research the drugs.

@sethaldrich6902 Ай бұрын

I’d suspect Sun Yangs times are all doped, I think he’s got the mile record.

@user-bu6dz3qz7r Ай бұрын

@@sethaldrich6902 There is no substantial reports yet verified by the swimming authorities to support your opinion, SunYang's times still valid in FINA. so it'syour opinion not fact.

@rongbai1001 Ай бұрын

@@sethaldrich6902 what about other top athletes before 2014 when TMZ was not considered PED? Or any current top athletes using more advanced drugs that are not on the banned list yet?

@australiancreepycrawlies6417 Ай бұрын

Now, which WADA people have pocketed the 2mil Chinese donations personally?

@user-bu6dz3qz7r Ай бұрын

any evidence about this？ or you just spread the rumors and trying to denigrate Chinese swimmers.

@adityathapa870 Ай бұрын

@@user-bu6dz3qz7r bruh they already r😂

@minavamp2811 Ай бұрын

@@user-bu6dz3qz7r bottom line is wada broke their protocol. kamila valieva scandal broke at 2022 beijing olympics, 2 months after her positive test for TMZ, then there shouldn't be any reason why wada would not be able to break this scandal with 23 Chinese swimmers tested positive for TMZ 7 months prior to 2021 Tokyo Olympics. bottom line is these swimmers that were tested positive should not be allowed to participate in 2021 Tokyo Olympics. and by rules, they should be banned for 4 years. that means, they should not be allowed to participate in 2024 paris Olympics as well. obviously wada was compromised and being bought by china to break their protocol and stayed silent over this scandal, because the stake is very high.

@dustinchen Ай бұрын

@@user-bu6dz3qz7rI think USA donated more to wada lol China's additional contributions came on top of $430,000 its government supplied WADA as part of the routine payments in 2019. The U.S. gave the largest regular contribution that year - $2.51 million, but that came as its relationship with WADA was growing tense.

@GoldenGoalFF Ай бұрын

Waiting for a Brett Hawke and MorePlatesMoreDates collab - that would probably break the universe

@trn8061 Ай бұрын

That is actually a great idea. Brett you made this happen, reach out to him and Ronnie Coleman. They can pick PEDs a mile away.

@chriscalhoun2795 Ай бұрын

Thanks Brett and Nick! Excellent coverage.

@InsidewithBrettHawke Ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

@nickbaker3588 Ай бұрын

you're gonna need some TMZ to take me down on my push 12.9, #sprintrevolution

@jaromino Ай бұрын

Brett, I think your videos are great. Actually getting into detail about stuff. Keep it going!

@InsidewithBrettHawke Ай бұрын

I appreciate that!

@EricAngle Ай бұрын

If the Australians didn't break this story, and if the ARD documentary wasn't released, would we still not know about this?

@gilesbowman1189 Ай бұрын

Nick, you just gave them a free pass, saying "it's awful for the swimmers." They knew exactly what they were doing!

@jaxlone997 Ай бұрын

ok so their explanation is the drug was found in a spice jar. If that's true then it would've been crushed and mixed to the spices at the factory. It sounds ridiculous, but has this kind of incident been recorded before with the spices supplier? If yes and it was totally unrelated then that would be the only thing that can back up this story. Otherwise the athletes had been taking that drug and someone in the kitchen was bribed and boiled a TMZ pill in water under the hood to cover it up - whether that person was on the athletes side or tried to boycott them is another matter. This is some real movie shit ngl.There's definitely been something shady going on between Wada and Chinada and based on the evidence Nick provided you don't even need to know anything about investigating to draw that conclusion.

@destroyerbloody Ай бұрын

Is there any chance to see the documentary outside of Germany? Thanks!

@chipperterri Ай бұрын

I watched it here on KZfaq. The channel is Dark Side of Sports. It is in 4 parts and has English sub titles.

@davidallen3490 Ай бұрын

Need to discuss protocols used for several other cases where transparency was first impulse and then it was later shown to be environmental contamination in order to show the normal operating procedures for WADA. Of course the lack of transparency here is troubling.

@Milden79 Ай бұрын

We have a highly professional team here, with dozens of high performance athletes and due to carelessness the technical committee together with the hotel did not check the origin of the food that would be served to the athletes?? Please...let's not be naive. China has a long history with doping.

@user-bu6dz3qz7r Ай бұрын

it's very easy to serve the contaminated food to athletes in a hotel. 2015yr, Malaysia team attend the 2016 rio Olympics selection meet, all national team got the diarrhea because they eat the spoiled chicken. I highly accept WADA and FINA conclusion, China team's food got contaminated, no one knows this was done by purpose or not. Just assuming a western chef was jealous of the achievement of China swimmer, he put the TMZ in the food in purpose.........I just guess this is possible. China Antidoping agency found 23 swimmer testing is positive and reported to WADA, if China government want to hide this, they don't have to report to WADA...

@azuretran7395 Ай бұрын

As with Australia.

@Jamrock151 Ай бұрын

America and Europe have more positive drug cases than China. Speak about that as well...further more why would Chinese athletes knowingly ingest tmz 7 months prior to the olympics? Logically I don't see a legit reason for doing so...

@ZhenYae Ай бұрын

The Americans, the Anglo Saxon. @@azuretran7395

@johnmiranda3641 Ай бұрын

The problem with the playing field not being level is within the international drug testing agencies. All positive tests should be made public immediately or none should. That an international drug testing agency will announce that a given athlete or nation has had a positive test result but remain silent about others testing positive is the problem at hand. As Nick stated in the interview, had those positive test results been publicly announced back in 2021 when they happened, there was a chance the athletes would have all been cleared prior to the Olympics anyway. Because of the chosen silence on this in 2021 by the international drug agency we now all have to deal with suspicious thoughts on the entirety of the Chinese team.

@user-bu6dz3qz7r Ай бұрын

Very objective and fair comment, personally I believe what WADA and FINA's clarification about the contaminated food. but WADA and FINA should release this info to public as they deal with this issue. China Antidopping agency found the 23 test positive swimmers and reported to WADA ASAP, so I believe it's not China team or government try to dope in purpose, otherwise China antidopping agency didn't have to report to WADA if China want to hide this.

@JohnSmith-el4rl Ай бұрын

As WADA stated, they saw no need to publicly announce the release, as the athletes were not found at fault. This is the case with many other countries where over 10 athletes have tested positive ped, (the US is an example 2014), national ada concludes it was food contamination no need to publicly disclose it due to fear of false media coverage

@johnmiranda3641 Ай бұрын

John Smith from Texas? Swam against you on a relay I think at NCAA's once if I remember correctly... Anyway, I stand by that everything should be announced at the time of a positive result. If athletes get quickly cleared, they obviously should announce that immediately as well. Having something come out three years later leaves suspicion on the entire process.

@user-bu6dz3qz7r Ай бұрын

@@JohnSmith-el4rl sounds reasonable. I stand with you.

@devonmuir2450 Ай бұрын

I don’t understand why Brett is so resolute that there was no wrongdoing by athletes and coaches. It seems unknowable so why be so affirmative?

@InsidewithBrettHawke Ай бұрын

Because I believe in the honesty of swimmers, not governments.

@stuchua1025 9 күн бұрын

@@InsidewithBrettHawke I believe in your logic that swimmers are so afraid to get positive in drug testing. My niece is a swimmer for the Philippine team, she would be so afraid to take any supplements even amino acids nor creatine for fear of being contaminated. Always thinking of what happened to Shayna Jack. Last Asian Games in Hangzhou, she was congratulated by the opposing Singaporean coach for swimming well and was offered a bottle of water. She didnt drink bottle of water for fear of being contaminated. Thats the mindset of swimmers nowadays. Every swimmer worked and trained so hard, they wont take the risk of being banned and labeled as a cheater.

@meghdaniellama1604 Ай бұрын

bring Clarence0 in pod cast. He has a video on youtube on how wada is under funded, out dated and IOC doesn't care about it

@stephensmith5805 Ай бұрын

We need to investigate wada whos taking

@Harry-uq9qd Ай бұрын

innocent until proven guilty, sure, but it doesn’t look good for any involved, including the athletes.

Ай бұрын

Somebody peed in the food

@trn8061 Ай бұрын

Oh Juicey! Pardon the pun...😂

@technoracko Ай бұрын

I cant understand why pointing fingers to china instead of wada, the decision is made by wada right?

@InsidewithBrettHawke Ай бұрын

WADA didn’t dope Chinese athletes.

@technoracko Ай бұрын

@@InsidewithBrettHawke thx for reply. wada declared they were clean to race, olympic allowed them to race. Even now, wada and olympic still own rights of annoucing doppers and taking action to medals

@InsidewithBrettHawke Ай бұрын

I guess that’s why they are getting heavily questioned now

@technoracko Ай бұрын

@@InsidewithBrettHawke We all have our opnions but in sensible topic we should be rational and rely on facts and mandate. Just like during swim meet. if my swimmers need to protest they come to coach first then we go to the committee with forms and supportings. Athlete is not batman brett, my full respect to you and your channel, and thats why i only leave my comments here. All the best!

@SPEED4EVER100 Ай бұрын

I competed against East Germans - they literally stole countless medals from great athletes -- the one thing I learned - THIS CAN NOT BE A DISCUSSION - countries need to take action -- show constant signs and poster and shirts that they are cheating - never shake their hands - do not celebrate medal ceremonies with them -- Shirley Babashoff - the greatest female swimmer in history because she took a stand - she let people know !!

@chdolan3530 Ай бұрын

I suppose the question I would ask of ARD is timing. Why did they disclose or plan to disclose this information now after knowing about it for two years. Why do it when the Chinese trails were happening? In the UK its not a big story at the moment and UK Swimming only just put out a statement. A rather bland one that we support clean sport etc. I don't think its quite true to say that Wada did not investigate as they clearly put out measures in the press conference to support the theory of contamination.

@nohoescall Ай бұрын

did you see the documentary already? It took them too long to collect information, confront sources, run experiments, etc. Tha wasn't overnight my friend!

@InsidewithBrettHawke Ай бұрын

They were researching it for 2 years. Information was provided slowly.

@JohnSmith-el4rl Ай бұрын

Nah they released now to cause controversy and smear China’s integrity right before Paris games

@michaelpaine8884 Ай бұрын

Great episode. I don’t believe this story of accidental contamination.

@JohnSmith-el4rl Ай бұрын

Weather accidental contamination or not, we can’t disclose the fact that this happens to many athletes of various countries, pos test ped, food contamination (one country is the US…)

@michaelpaine8884 Ай бұрын

@@JohnSmith-el4rl when athletes test positive they are suspended. They have every right to get their due process.Shaun’s Jack tested positive the whole world found out. Why the secrecy. Also it’s Sun Yang drug of choice.

@rongbai1001 Ай бұрын

To really level the playground, I think it is the time for every athlete to test and disclose every single supplement they take and every metabolite in their blood stream. Think about the time when France just developed TMZ in the 70's and only they could use it for competitive advantages in olympics. Was that fair for hard training athletes in third world countries?

@johnmiranda3641 Ай бұрын

I believe TMZ was created as a heart medication as Nick stated. It getting used as a performance enhancer came after that... Nick touched upon that in the interview. So it is incorrect to state that 'the French' originally created the substance as a known performance enhancing drug.

@rongbai1001 Ай бұрын

@@johnmiranda3641the issue is TMZ has been used for decades to enhance athletic performance. Why was it put on the list decades later in 2014? Are there any other PEDs athletes are currently using but will only be put on the banned list years later? Likely after newer and more exclusive drugs come out? In that case, if an athlete is not backed by strong pharmaceutical development, he/she either always loses or always cheats. How is that fair?

@choims1855 Ай бұрын

if World Anti-doping Agency claimed so, why the doping test conducted by the 2020 olympic never showed anything?

@JohnSmith-el4rl Ай бұрын

I think it was because the TMZ was in very small amounts, as WADA stated it was such a small amount that athletes would often test positive and then negative the next day. The west wants to slander China right before the Olympics, maybe because they are just starting to get good at swimming

@choims1855 Ай бұрын

@@JohnSmith-el4rl yup, I do agree with you. Only China & Russia athletes are being targeted on doping issue. Moreover all this news are being dug out just right before the upcoming Olympic Games. I wonder how many western athletes have been using the banned substances but are not being revealed.

@ZhenYae Ай бұрын

@@JohnSmith-el4rlDo not forget that the collective west wants to start a War with China and to demonize the Chinese in this manner is very much part of their scheme.

@stephensmith5805 Ай бұрын

Wada whos taking ££££££

@markkrikelis7093 Ай бұрын

Ι'm so glad I stopped swimming 😂 the dumbest sport by far.

@DrSt-mu4zw Ай бұрын

I'm sorry but if it was found in trace amounts in their bodies then it was taken on purpose. And Brett giving the athletes a pass is just not right. Remember the arrogance of sun yang? I'm sure they know what they're taking and if they get found out would smash blood vials as well

@XwD77 Ай бұрын

I think the 'blood vials' case is not well understood, or moreso people don't care to understand and are happy to accuse regardless. Would you not be concerned yourself if you were in Sun Yang's shoes if after you gave blood, the testers could not produce the appropriate identification / credentials, and another is standing on the side secretly recording you on their phone? I know I would be. Did you know he also returned 8 negative tests in the two weeks leading up to that day, and that there is actually no accusation that he was doped on that day? He is banned for his arrogance (I agree) and his poor handling of that situation - not because he was doped or that there is suspicion that he was.

@DrSt-mu4zw Ай бұрын

@@XwD77 dude's on China's payroll. go get it commie

@InsidewithBrettHawke Ай бұрын

I truly believe the athletes didn’t know. Just my opinion and belief.

@martinmercier1702 Ай бұрын

I have had a hard time beleaving in chinese swimming since the Sun Yang smash. At that point im selling my tickets for the Olympic swimming events. Since there is at least on russian or Chinese swimmer in every event im interested in. A shame

@JohnSmith-el4rl Ай бұрын

The is a US and Australian swimmer in each event too…

@jmwelle Ай бұрын

There is more probability of steroids being in the drinking water (zero) than this stuff in a kitchen. Did they also find anti cancer drugs? Antibiotics? Maybe the kitchen was formerly a pharmacy?!?!?! LOL UNREAL!

@trn8061 17 күн бұрын

One month on and nothing has been done about this. The videos are only on KZfaq in German. I speak german and this needs to be translated and propgated. It's Disgraceful. Such an amazing Olympics with such a cloud hanging over the fat elephant in the room. Shits me.

@oscarpinto8106 Ай бұрын

What’s the likelihood China gets band from the Olympics

@InsidewithBrettHawke Ай бұрын

Zero

@ulutatussourire2739 Ай бұрын

🧚‍♀️🧚🧚🏻‍♂️in the kitchen sprinkling magic 🪄 powder 💊 💊💊💊💊💊💊💊💊💊💊💊💊💊💊💊💊💊💊💊💊💊💊🫠

@nohoescall Ай бұрын

Thanks for this one Brett. But I don't see the point of spending the first 10 min in asking/explaining acronims, everyone in this podcast already know

@InsidewithBrettHawke Ай бұрын

You’d be surprised how many don’t