The D850 is the BEST DSLR in history. The Z7 is the first in the future mirrorless. I have the D850. Why go with a prototype? I will most probably choose the next Nikon Mirrorless in a year or so. With all the backlash, it will most likely have Eye-AF and Dual Card Slots and maybe some new surprises like a 50+ Megapixel Sensor. For a Backup now to my D850, I am considering a Z6 as it has the same video capability of the Z7, but $1200.00 cheaper. Anyway, great time to be alive in Photography!

You keep cranking out great videos Jared, I've learnt so much from watching you these last few weeks, loving it!

I just sold my Z7ll mirrorless is just marketing hype, i'll keep the D850 it's fantastic! i could go back to a D700 and take amazing pictures.

Finally, I’ve been waiting for this

Thank you for actually doing a real review and comparison of these cameras. Personally I love the 2 card slots, larger size body, grip, and the ability to use all my lenses without an adapter. If I did more video work I would look into the Z7 but because I do mainly product lifestyle photography the 850 gets my vote!

I went with d850 cuz some wise man passing by told that it's unwise to drop 3+ grands on v1 of a new product. I love my shiny new toy.

The review I was waiting for!

POLIN! You rock fam. I’ve been looking forward to your review on this. Great content as always. 🤟🏾

I went with both. I had the D850...great stills camera...but after spending a week with a loaner Z7 I thought about it for a couple months and in a weaker moment, bought it at a branch of a local chain. They threw in a 64gig XQD and 3 extended warranty. For raw stills, they are indistinguishable, both excellent. But for JPG stills, the Z7 has the edge because of the newer Expeed 6 processor. I was not concerned about the single slot because during the loaner week I found the new version of their wireless connectivity is lightyears ahead of any other camera I have seen including the D850. Over the two months with it and several events, I still have not removed the XQD once. All the files go really fast to my editing computer and that has been fast and flawless. That is one of the best features, reliable wireless backup that is seamless and 14 bit raw files arriving on the editing computer in just over 1 second after each shot is made. The range is good. The Z7 was intended to be a travel and second camera for shoots with the D850 as the primary but the more I use the Z7 the more it gets priority. I am getting more interesting personal shots because it is small enough to be with me all the time. One of the great benefits of the Z line is that new mount. I know some reviewers say the new low cost small 1.8 primes feel cheap but they are all metal, light and have a noticeably better corner to corner sharpness and contrast wide open and than my top F mount lenses that cost much more and are bulkier. They have very impressive performance. for wide open sharpness, they are the best lenses at their FL available. That bodes well for a large number of primes and faster zooms scheduled to be released in the coming months. Since I do a lot of portraits, I am pretty picky about selecting focus plane so don't care about eye AF but apparently, a lot of people what the camera to decide so there is good news for them, a new firmware update adds 3 big news features 1 Eye AF, 2; 12bit RAW video out the HDMI port which is a game changer for serious videographers who really need top quality images with 10,000 times the fine step of illuminance than the other cameras out with far courser steps. The 3rd feature is an addition of CFExpress card support that should make the camera into an infinite buffer with 5-8 times the buffer clearing speed. The cards announced to have 8 pipes so it is possible to write copies to more than 1 pipe for in-card backup. There are hints of additional features added in later firmware updates. I like grips, and was not happy to hear the battery grip might not have controls. Nikon only says it has 2 battery slots. But playing with the phone app for the camera and finding it is possible to control everything on the camera with BlueTooth, any 3rd party or Nikon can add any number of control to a grip. Within a month or two expect to see 3rd party grips that control at least shutter, AF-on and joystick AF point selector. For those complaining about not having a forward facing screen for video selfies, they seem to lack imagination. Anyone serious about video will have a larger monitor recorder like the Ninja 5 but for the rest, they can use their phone as a monitor. Now I am thinking of selling my D800 because it is gathering dust on the shelf and use that towards a Z6 as a personal walking around camera and second camera for lightweight shoots supporting the Z7. A pro build quality better than the competition, weather sealed, Z mount camera for $1996 is a bargain. For video it has no competition and stills its a very good camera.

I bought the D850 due to its great stills reviews, but then got in to video. Since I had all the Nikon glass, I decided to purchase the Z7 to focus on video. I use both, but exclusively use the Z7 for video. Thanks Jared - great and fair review.

Thanks as always Jarod and I also downloaded your froknows photo guide for which Im really grateful. Cheers

Always a pleasure to see new videos from Jared

I have always been a Nikon shooter going all the way back to the Nikon F2 (film camera). I have both the D850 and the new Z7, and I love them both. But I use these two cameras differently. Hands down, the D850 is the best DSLR on the market today, and I tend to use this camera whenever I’m shooting landscapes from a tripod. The Z7, on the other hand, is my go-to camera whenever I want to walk around shooting handheld due to the weight and the amazing IBIS. And the beauty of the Z7 is that you don’t sacrifice image quality because of the great sensor with exactly the same resolution as the D850. That being said, I have been using the Z7 for landscape work recently as well, and I’m really impressed with the quality of the images. The “kit” 24-70mm f/4 lens is super sharp from edge to edge. Still, I wouldn’t sell my D850. I love both cameras!

Thank you Jared, these videos really help with the decision making process. I use a Nikon d7200 and have been wanting to upgrade to a full frame. I understand mirrorless is the next generation in technology. I thought the Z7 would be a great transition into that as I can use my current lenses and slowly move into the z lenses. Yet, I'm an enthusiast photographer who enjoys birds and macro. Therefore, this video helped very much with my decision. Since I'm not a professional, I can still get a great camera (D850) and probably find one used and not break the bank.

just about to buy my first full frame, regardless of other systems i will be getting a D850.

I agree with you 100% and if I were in the market for a 45mp camera then at this moment in time I would go with the D850 but only because of the grip. I’m really looking forward to seeing how the firmware updates fix the eye af because this might be a game changer for me. Exciting times ahead!

I was upgrading from d800. Here in the uk Nikon we’re giving us an extra 450 quid when part ex to a D850. I got one and love it.

Great job Jared! Your vids are always super informative! Really appreciate your work!

Thank you very much, you helped me decide the choice of camera. The decisive factor for me was the electronic viewfinder and sensor stabilization. It is very important for me to see how the picture will look as a result. I am not a professional photographer, I am a photographer enthusiast. I like to shoot with old manual lenses and it is very important for me to see the final picture. Working segment Z 7 allows you to connect absolutely any lens through the adapter with the ability to focus at infinity

Good comparison. Love your work :) It'd be such a hard call. As somebody with both a D750 and a Sony A7RIII, I have to say that my biggest beef with these mirrorless bodies is the lack of buttons and tactile feel. The D850 with the backlit buttons and easier function selects would be dreamy. But OTOH the AF coverage and upcoming Eye-AF (even if it just ends up being serviceable), is such a good thing, When I go back to my D750 the narrow coverage area of the AF is my biggest frustration. I keep thinking about upgrading the D750 at some point, but it's still such a great goddamn camera. Truth of the matter is (for me) neither of these really compel me to upgrade just yet. I have the A7RIII and some native sigma primes for portraits and shoots where I prefer the AF capabilities. I'd be inclined to go with the Z7, but I have to say, every time I hold somebodies D850 in my hand, I really get the itch to grab one.

Saving up to purchase the D850 by the end of the year! Thank you for showing the exact listings for the grip and battery.

I have the D850 and that is where I'm staying. It's a great camera and I plan to stick with it for a long while. I'll wait for the Z9!

Love your channel Jared! Keep it up

For me it is really hard to pick. But personally for my style of photography the z7 wins and that is only because I can use all my vintage glass on it and the IBIS, and I shoot mostly manual focus lenses. But I would not say no to a d850, honestly the battery life on the d850 is a huge plus in my book so I won't have to pack as many batteries, I've been drooling over it for ages, I just don't have the money to buy it, and my d810 still works great.

I would go with the Z7. I tried it at my local shop and loved it. Felt good in my hands. 4 awesome questions at <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1337">22:17</a> that can help someone decide on the Z7 or D850 too! 1) Do you shoot Video? 2) Do you want something smaller and lighter? 3) Can you live with one card slot? 4) Can you live without vertical grip? If you answered "yes" to all of the questions above, heck yeah, jump on the Z7! Both cameras are phenomenal!

This guy is talking about my very exact dilemma. I love his comparison between the cameras. Thank you for taking the time to do this. Although your first name reminds. me of some very scary people!

Awesome video ! Very very very much information that´s helping you to find your choice ! ty very much !

Thanks Jared! This really helped to decide what to get. I have a bunch of Nikon Nikor glass, and a Nikon D610. I am starting to do a lot more video work so I think I am going to invest in the Z7. Oh, the wind test is my favorite!!! The smell test is great, too!!!

Right off the bat I'd say the D850, especially since I just spent a year saving up to buy one.

I purchase the D850 because I like to travel with a real weapon! If I hit a creep with a Z7 it would break!

Huge thanks Jared. That was very useful. I am a D850 w 810D backup shooter. Thinking about the Z7. I have had card fails, been rescued by the backup card, so that is huge for me. I think I will wait for the next iteration of Nikon Z series. One with two slots, a vertical grip and a larger buffer.

Jared, you really helped me decide between the two. It came down to autofocus, image stabilization and being able to see exposure changes through the electronic viewfinder...very cool. Weight also matters unless I am carrying a large telephoto lens obviously. I also like the larger 55mm opening versus the size of the old (1959)F mount....light has to bend less now creating less potential for distortion out towards the edges. Right now the selection of Z lenses are pretty limited but the Z to F mount adapter is being given away for free by Nikon with the purchase of a Z body. As of early November 2019, the prices of the body are only about $100 apart in the $2700- $2800 price range, which is another reason I am choosing the Z7. The only gripe I have about the Z7 is that there is only one storage cartridge....that is all. This means that professionals don't want to use this camera and risk not getting paid and ruining their reputations. The extra battery holder on the body is now available. There is also a non-Nikon dual battery charger available for much less on Amazon. I hear it is safer to charge a lithium-ion battery outside of the camera....makes sense since they can catch fire. Again, thanks for the excellent review. You do a great job with all of your videos.

Sold my d850 and Bought the z7. ITs ok but too many little annoying things for me: 1) My tripod plate had to be removed when i switched lenses and FTZ adapter..2)24-70 had alot of chromatic aberration 3) Not many lenses to chose from yet 4) The wired remote plug kept slipping out when shooting vertical 5) Cant be converted to IR(horizontal banding) 6) Not a big weight difference when using FTZ and lens 7) One card slot(not a deal breaker) 8) battery life was really short 9) My EVF kept shutting off to conserve batter power. In the end, I Sold my z7 and repurchased a used d850.

Nikon is going to add their one of the best feature in terms of the AUTO FOCUS, the Eye Af and that is selectable person wise, in near future in their Z series cameras.

I now have both and I’m very happy about it. I’m selling my D500 since my D850 can stand in for it. Having IBIS is mega important though on the Z7. I have the Sigma 105 f/1.4 and 135 f/1.8 portrait lenses and neither is stabilized, and the Z7’s IBIS makes a ton of difference when hand held. The sharpness I’m getting from those lenses is superlative in average, low, and lower light. This is what sold me on the Z7. It’s truly a fine camera.

Hi Mr. Jared, I just took my brand new D850 just less than one hour ago... My previous camera was a 6.5 years old D800 and the feeling is the same in my hands: reliable... I'll take my time to cross the river to the mirrorless. I'd like something lighter but that's it for now. I keep trying focusing on my images than in technolgy! Keep on posting this kind of videos, I'm following you since long time. Greetings from Italy

D850 is a magic camera The best in the world

The issue with the dynamic range of the Z7 has nothing to do with being off in your exposure. You can have good exposure but get banding because you decided to crank up the shadow slider, or if you end up doing something like correcting some vignetting (which on some popular lenses according to DXO mark, can have upwards of 3 stops vignette), pair vignette correction with shadow recovery and you can end up with banding rather easily.

THANK YOU SOOOOOO MUCH FOR ALL THIS INFO! I HAVE THE NIKON D850 AND I THINK I WILL KEEP IT AND ADD THE Z7 TO MY COLLECTION

Thanks for a great review Jared, I've got the D500 and the D850, I was very dissapointed with both as they only have 1 xqd slot but went with them as they were a natural upgrade from my D7100 and later the D610. The choice to buy the Z7 was an absolute no no but when the Z6 came out I bought it on the day of release, I love the Z series, the lenses are great. Then theres the old bugbear of only one card slot, I thought about it and realised I only use the xqd slot anyway as SD cards slow down both the D500 and D850, so in the end it was a no brainer for this enthusiast. I notice they are giving the adapter away in the US, here in the UK you can't buy a body without one, I thought it was optional. I will never get rid of either my 500 or the 850, brilliant for wildlife, air shows, landscaps and macro. the Z6 is a great lightweight camera, just wish they had released the 14-30 and 700-200 f4s with the camera.

I use a D800 and the Z. My commercial work includes project photos for For interior designers, where I am shooting on a tripod. The Z is fantastic for that! I can see the exposure, real time, on the back of the camera. As lighting is a key element of the design, I use available light with the occasional reflector. Again, the preview is very helpful. I also shot for a local fox hunt group and some motorsports photography. The Z sucks for things that are fast moving. The DSLR is always there and ready, while you have to wait for the Z to wake up. I suspect there's a battery eating option to keep it on all the time, but the DSLR wins, hands down, for shooting things that move and change rapidly. Get both!

Long time hobby shooter from film days. Love my D750. Looking to purchase one of the Nikon film cameras possibly the Nikon FM2. Too much stuff on these beautiful expensive cameras for me. I like choosing my settings & shoot manual (wildlife), etc. Not a professional but alway happy to see the latest gear. Very good comparison of the D850 & Z7. Thank you for the info.

For video, the more battery life and second memory slot are vital! But auto focus is vital too! Which one is more important?

nice video. I want a D850 because battery problem Z7, and I like the view through the pentaprism.

Keep up the great work love your videos and try to carry what you do into my channel

I started in photography BEFORE SLR cameras. Twin lens and range finder cameras were almost silent in use, were small and light weight. At 71 years of age I feel that photography has come full circle for me. I'm back where I started, no floppy mirror, light weight and silent shutter release...again.

Hi Jared. Nice video as usual. I think one checkmark you missed is concerning the micro focus adjustment process. Still nice intels.

Thanks for the video. I am in the midst of upgrading from a D7200 to either a D850 or Z7, and this helped. I am still undecided, but the information was comprehensive and argued persuasively for both. Again, thanks.

Wedding Photographer = Stick with the tried and true 850 until all of the cons of the Z fall way through evolution. OR - pick up a Z as a back up to get used to with the 850 as a primary.

This was a great review, I went through this basic thought process in October. For context, I have a D810, and a couple of Panasonic mirrorless cameras for video. Because of changes to my typical lighting set-up, the AF on the D810 was struggling, so I hoped the improved low-light AF of the D850 could help. The Z7 was available, so it made sense to consider that too. The low light AF seemed better with the D850, I am most comfortable using a vertical grip, and a general preference of an OVF made me decide that I'd get the D850, probably the last DSLR I will purchase. Maybe in 2-4 years I'll get the Z8?

Getting ready to pull the trigger on an D850 and then I watched your video. Will still get the 850. Thanks!

Currently thinking of replacing my D500 for a Z6. A Z6 and a D850 I believe to be a great combo if you are a Nikon shooter currently. Please do a D500 vs Z6 video!

Never gonna buy such expensive camera but I watch anyway because I like Jared's videos haha

Fro, I upgraded from the 810 to the 850 because I thought it was a significant improvement. After almost a year I believe it was a significant improvement. I will not upgrade to the Z7 for two reasons. First, it does not appear to be a significant improvement since I do not do run and go video. Second my wife would kill me and I would not get to use it anyway. I agree the D850 is the best DSLR available today. It will be interesting to see what Nikon does with the Z7.1 or 7.5 or whatever in a few years. By the way I keep the SD cards as an offsite backup in addition to spare hard drives, etc. But that is the only reason for 2 card slots for me.

I know this is an old video but it still helps a lot in making a big decision like this. One thing not mentioned is how to shift from normal still shots to HDR shots. Apparently, this process is buried in the menu system of the Z7, and in the 850 it's only a button push on the camera body. That's a deal-breaker for me and a big check mark for the 850. Thanks and cheers!

When hiking/skiing through Norwegian wilderness, every gram counts. I look forward to scale up from the D500 to the Z7. I have accurate information that my DX-lenses performs perfectly on the Z7 in DX mode. I can not wait to shoot in silence. Even the tiniest little click is picked up by the sensitive ears of a wolverine, and they high-tail out of the area. I look even more forward to the new big glass coming for the Z7. Thanks again for a good review, Frodo!

Z7 all day. Do we know if there's still firmware updates coming for these cameras? I feel like there will likely be more functional improvements coming for the Z7

I currently shoot with a D800. I am upgrading soon and think I will be going with the D850. I prefer the size of the camera and how it feels. Also, I have been dabbling in video over the last year or so. I have really gotten used to manual focusing. I imagine a large majority will disagree, but I like the creative freedoms it allows and just having that extra bit of control. Thank you for doing this comparison, Jared!

Just bought the fro pack lightroom presets after hedging for months and went through them on just one photo, while some look very subtle or similar (could be better/more noticable on a different photo with different colour pallet) they do indeed add a nice punch to images. For the moment my favourites are definitely Sandilot and B+W Boomify, well worth £20 :)

I own a 850. Purchased the z6 to supplement. Love both !

A negative for the cost of 850 battery grip- yet no negative for the cost of ETZ mount adapter...?

I sold my Nikon Z7 and bought a D850

Would love to see your opinion on the D850 and the Sony A9 been debating between the two for a while. More wanting the silent shutter for weddings and indoor plays.

An excellent comparison, Fro! I am strongly considering going with the Nikon Z7, and have a question please...Are you able to upload images (jpegs/nef) to a computer via a USB-C cable, INSTEAD of using anXQD reader? (In other words, leaving the card in camera at all times, like I can do with my X-T3.) Thank you!

All about the Z7 looking to the future.. If only a second card slot..

If I would work all day long as a professional, I would take a D850 and a Z6. With these to you can shoot EVERYTHING. But I can't choose one, way to hard of a decision.

I'm happy that I was finally able to get the Nikon D850 through, none other than, Allen's Camera. My current camera, the Nikon D810 is now my secondary and I finally have an awesome primary camera. Thanks Jared for all the great advice.

That wind tunnel test set a new benchmark 💨🎐

2 cards is a professional worry. If you knw what's at stake, you never go without the redundancy.

As a landscape and travel photographer I switched from my D850 to the Z7, it was a no brainer for me. a lighter and more compact package while still holding superb image quality capabilities, The D850 is a superb camera and i cannot fault it or say a bad thing about it. I just wanted something lighter and the Z7 was it. sure its not going to be for everyone but i have no regrets in my decision. and the 24-70 f/4 is superb!

Thanks for your videos and all the knowledge that your share with us. My question is now that Nikon released in May 2019 the AF update for the Z6 and Z7 can you make a video and compare the new AF of Z7 to the AF Sony A7 lll. THANKS

Yo, Jared! You. The. Man! Good stuff.

Spot on review. It sure does come down to one's style of shooting. This D850 dude, having diverted to supplemental Sony's at the start of the mirrorless era, is not going to the Z7. I still regard the mirrorless movement as motivated as much by marketing (fire up sales) as any technical or artistic advantage. BTW, your Wind Tunnel test was astounding. If the government wasn't shut down, NASA could use that talent of yours.

Thanks for informative video. I feel that Z7 is a bit immature so far and with a limited selection of lenses and a hopeless adapter, I now replace my old D800 with a D850. Then we'll see about a 2-3 years if I'm ready for the mirrorless

Hey Jared, between the D5 and the D850, which one would you choose for nature, animals and sports photos ?

Have the D810 and was weighing the 850 vs Z7, Decided to go with the Z7. Major factor was the edge to edge focus coverage, in my case the best new feature that makes a big difference to me. I bought it with the FTZ Adapter (Was included for free along with Sony 64G XQD Card) Also purchased the grip, love that both batteries are hot swappable and can be changed without removing the grip, very important for VIDEO, plus battery level indicators are on the grip itself. No vertical control buttons on the grip but thats not an issue for me. There was also a rebate when I bought this so my final price for the Z7, FTZ and 64 GB XQD was $2,600.00. I strictly use NIKKOR "F" mount lenses with the FTZ (Already own 15 of NIKONs finest Lenses). In addition I Bought the AF-S NIKKOR 24-85 f/3.5-4.5 ED VR and the AF-S NIKKOR 70-200 2.8E FL ED VR Lens mainly to use with VIDEO but I am thrilled with their results for stills. As for the single card slot, I worked Professionally for over 25 years with a single slot for your roll of film and always made sure that all my eggs were not in one basket. As far as card failure I have only lost images or had card failures with SD format cards, I have been using CF cards for over 20 years without losing any images. I do also record to a Atomos 7" Monitor for about 50% of my VIDEO work.

I have the d850 and z6, which I am perfectly happy with both. The z6 weight is great, fun and the viewfinder with non flash pics gives you no reason to blow highlights. The d850 however is just amazing, it does everything a photographer needs so damn well. The 850 all around is a lot better than any camera in it's price range, probably the only reason I'm still with Nikon. After using a mirrorless for a while, you can see why people make the switch over to Sony. If Nikon doesn't have a dual card mirrorless pro body within 3 years, I will probably switch as well.

The Nikon F mount has not changed in 60 years because Nikon got it PERFECT in the first place. I hope they never change it.

Great video, great comparison.

This video was a lot better than I expected.

On the AF points, yes edge to edge is cool but I can’t imagine a scenario where all the way at the edge of the frame is what I want in focus

I will stay with my d850 for what I do landscape photography

Both are pretty nice sir I loved it thanks for sharing.

Thanks for all great video's have question Thu why manufacturers put big numbers as ISO when the picture is not useable at some point.

You should add something else in favour of the Z7... the recently announced firmware update...

I currently shoot a D850, D810 and D500, and to me nothing can beat this trinity of bodies for still photography. With that being said, I have been eyeing the Z6 as my gateway to incorpoarte more comprehensive video capabilities into my tool kit. I simply can't justify a Z7 when my D850 is far superior body for my focus of still photography.

One of your very best videos JP. As a D850 owner the camera feels perfect in my hands and performs like a dream. Yes there are features on the Z7 l lust after but Nikon mirrorless is still in its infancy so l will sit on the sidelines for now. One point to note the D850 can be purchased significantly cheaper than the Z7 with retail discounting and Nikon rebates. I got mine for the equivalent of US $2,780 including sales tax.

Hey Jared thanks for the video, as always great stuff. I am wondering though, i understand the differences between a mechanical and electronic shutter, But I am wondering since the Z7/6 are mirrorless why do they have a mechanical shutter to begin with? What is the added bonus of a mechanical shutter for a mirrorless? Can i use only the electronic shutter and forget about the mechanical one, or is it "bad" for the camera to use all the time? (apart for battery drain i assume) Hope you can answer this Thank you and keep it up!

Thanks Jared .. This video helped me decide. I ve been waiting for a direct comparison between the d850 vs the Z 7. I think the d850 is a much safer bet given the longer battery life.. and the dual card slots and plus i love taking stills rather than videos. I did love the 5 axis stabilazation of the Z 7 but I think the d850 is the camera for me just because of the above mentioned points. Keep making those awesome videos.

Z6 or Z7 Any day but just the thing that XQD card thing sucks ..... I mean come on XQD card is not cheap like the SDHC cards

Great and informative video.

Hi. you always have a great content in your video. Could you please check if something is wrong with the audio sync. It goes down the moment you switch contents in this video.

Hi Jared, I‘m still using my D800 and sometimes my old F4. Any questions?

No, give the full checkmark to the d850 for having NO banding, regardless how far off exposure is!

I already own the D850 and love it. Here's my conundrum. I mainly shoot nature, wildlife, and macro. I'm not a pro but an avid enthusiast. I recently purchased the 500PF to replace the 200-500 and also own the 300PF. I'd like to mount the 500PF on the D850 and get a second body to carry with the 300PF mounted to it in case the wildlife is too close for the 500PF. Should I get another D850 or the Z6 or Z7? Which body would be the best camera body for nature, wildlife, macro for the enthusiast?

cool mate, love this one, very good

You did not mention the 8k time lapse for D850 which is not available for Z7

for the simple fact that the Z 7 is a 1st gen I wouldn't buy it...I agree that the future is Mirrorless but I'll wait till they sort out most of the kinks...

Good stuff. I want a smaller camera easier to travel with than my D4. Was thinking about the D850 or the Z7, but after this, I think the Z7 will be better for my needs, especially as I only ever use my D4 second card as overflow.

If you’re starting to watch this video and wondering whether to sit through it.. DO.. it’s a fair and really good look and discussion about both cameras from someone who’s actually used them a lot in REAL world situations on multiple occasions