Buying i3=not with REX!

You need to look at this version of the i3: www.google.com/search?q=bmw+i3s+white&client=ms-android-samsung-gs-rev1&source=android-browser&prmd=isnv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjOhrj26YHuAhXxzIUKHUs8Cv4Q_AUoAXoECA4QAQ&biw=412&bih=750&dpr=2.63#imgrc=GINCp8R1vh4hTM

I am looking to replace my Zoe and would agree with you on the Renault dealers. They don't have a clue about Zoes. A quick scan of autotrader will show up Zoe 'i's that are battery lease(???), cars just sold as the Zoe with no information about battery size, motor fitted or lease/'i' and even a ZE40 that is advertised as a 22kWh model. They really are trying to stop that one finding a buyer.

What are you driving now?

@@Zimpaz 2018 model Leaf

@@SiEffen how’s that doing? I’m thinking of replacing our runabout diesel with a 2015 leaf but wondering if I should stretch to a 30kwh

@@Zimpaz I'd definitely recommend the 30 over the 24 (I had one for 18 months) just for the extra bit of range. In the summer the 30kWh would manage about 130 miles range versus 90 for the 24kWh. In the winter the 30kWh managed about 100 miles versus 65 for the 24kWh.

I'm in Clacton this weekend.

Electric Vehicle Man Shame, I’m South, South - Winchester way!

Ellis Toms Plenty of videos about long journeys in the channel!

Electric Vehicle Man Yeh, I know. Seen most of them but when you've got a battery at 82%SOH, and the nearest charger is about 35 miles away a according to zap, just can't get the courage up to diva test drive there yet. I will have to get out at some point though. 😓

Love your comment about your wife and daughter being your bosses. I have the 24 kWh leaf and like it but can't drive long distance in it because of charging infrastructure. The U.K. Has a lot better set up at least the ecotricity network. Near Gloucester were @rualleafowner Ian Sampson lives. He now has a Zoe and loves it but has a boatloads of videos on traveling in his leaf on the network all the way to como and exeter

Toby Jackson thanks for your comment. I know you are right. I hope that once I have done it, I will venture further afield. My wife wants us to go for a trip to Hever Castle, and can make it there ok, but it appears they only have one or two destination points available which will almost certainly be occupied. This is a problem with such a short range car. Just can't fill up at enough places. There is a ecotricity fast charger on the way in one direction, which i have just set up an account , so it would be cutting it fine for the journey home. I am hoping I can just sign up as I go for all the other fast chargers. Watching others setting up accounts on the fly says to me that I worry too much, pethaps. But I have taken the first big step into electric car ownership, and really enjoying my every day usage. Brilliant.

Ive driven 700km in one day in my 2012 leaf - one bar lost. And i had to charge 6times on the trip. Mostly motorway at 90km/h. And the longest stop was 20min. Usually just 10-15min on the others. And even tho supercharging is «expensive» i saved 1500nok or 170£ driving my electric car than using my brothers Passat. I planned to do so because of the huge distance..

Lease is a viable option for a second-hand purchase as the Zoe is then much cheaper as you're only buying half the package while Renault carry the depreciation of the other half of the investment - if you can ever call a car at this level an investment LOL. If you have a Zoe with leased battery annual depreciation after year one is really quite a slow affair since the value of your asset is have that of a comparible Leaf. Add to that the £49/month battery lease and most drivers are quids in

Kia Soul EV leases might be good in the UK right now but I must say we hated the handling. It was like driving a fridge on wheels: no feedback whatsoever. We had test-driven LEAF, i3, Volt, and Soul EV but when we hopped into the e-Golf we couldn't believe the joy to be had in driving the thing vs Soul EV (and Volt, with that weird US-car non-linear steering thing going on, like an old Taurus). LEAF was so-so; i3 drove like a BMW (nice: fast and precise) but was priced accordingly ($286/mo w/$5k down vs $159/mo with $3k for the e-Golf). We're keeping the e-Golf at end-of-lease, having given up on getting an affordable Tesla (and I lined up on 3/31/16 to hand over the deposit).

You are spot on John. I know EVM dislikes battery lease but I have one and did the math on a second hand Zoe. OK I don't do much annual mileage but I worked out that over 5 years I would pay less (with battery lease) than had I purchased a Zoe with battery included. I've seen low-mileage good condition Zoe's, 3 years old, for sale at £6,000 and less. £600 per year battery lease makes it a highly affordable second hand EV and great for young first time buyers and those looking for a bargain.

How i3 maintenance wise how many miles you have these update will help many?

i find the leaf 1 is much more stylish than the leaf2

Steven Barrett That's very interesting. I suppose you don't own the battery so no reason to get insurance money on it. What happens to the lease though? Surely you don't keep paying for it?

Yes RCI finance demanded we keep paying the battery lease but refused to allow us to take the battery pack home. In the end we complained to the financial ombudsman and as if by magic RCI finance stopped taking payments and even repaid the money taken since the accident

@@stevenbarrett7648 Thanks for this information. I was at a dealer just browsing a bit and they said I really needed to lease the battery if I decided to buy one, if would give me peace of mind. Guess it will give me a headache if I lease and something happens to it.

Ingeborg Svensson not really, we bought another Zoe recently, Q90 but decided to lease the battery again ensuring we have proper cover this time. I like the idea of Renault replacing the battery if it fails plus the unlimited recovery package we get in Great Britain especially as it’s used by all the family

@@stevenbarrett7648 Thanks for commenting Steven. I went to the dealer yeaterday just to have a look at the car from the inside, I will shedule a test drive later. They gave me some brochures and it clearly states, albeit in smaller print, that you need a € 9.65 per month additional insurance for the battery. So that totals to around € 80 a month for leasing the battery. If I bought a 6 - 8 yo Zoe I would consider a lease but not for one that is 2 - 3 yo, that would financially make no sense in my case, unless the car was known for it's many battery defects. Which as far as I know, is not the case. What also struck me at the dealer's is that the guy claimed they had never had one with a faulty battery in their garage since Zoe first came on the market. But later on in the conversation he tried to convince me to get a lease one 'because you never know'. I did not say anything about it at the time but these statements seem to contradict eachother. My daily rides are in the rural area of the Netherlands so very flat surface, the nearest thing we have to a hill is a speed bump here and there. It's an area with many small villages (30 km/h) and 60 kmh road that connect them. I do not drive every day and when I do it will be mostly 60 km/h or less and a total of 45 km distance per day or less. I know a guy with a flat bed truck and he would pick me up any place for 25 euros or so, he did it when I had trouble with my Prius. He works for the Dutch version of the AA but he has no problem making some money on the side. I understand your reasoning perfectly and if I did a lot of motorway or dual carriage or if I needed a service for picking me up then leasing might be worth considering. But as I see it now I'd better buy. Since I would slow charge at home (3 kW) almost all of the time the R110 seems to be the best choice for me and there are currently some available here for 10k euros or even less for an I version. For 8k or less you only have the lease versions. What I wonder is: how can I determin (approximate) the state of the battery by taking a short test drive? If you have any suggestions please let me know, I would really appreciate it.

It’s what I plan to get as a first car only 22kwh though

Du bist so am lügen junge

They all have that.

@@ElectricVehicleMan thanks for clarifying. Are those systems now reliable, having gone through a few version evolutions?

sinjoor60 that sounds sensible. Unlike Renault here.

What did you think of the regen (B mode) on the Bolt? On the one we test-drove, it made a lot of noise when activated (i.e., decelerating), whereas our e-Golf's regen is _absolutely_ _silent_. Noise has to have a source and it seems to me that this means some kind of friction -- worrisome? Otherwise, we liked the Bolt, though it did drive a bit "floaty-boaty" compared to the German EVs (e-Golf, i3).

That's strange, I didn't notice any outrageous noise. Regen is supposed to have friction, but not to the point you can hear it. Yeah the Bolt was definitely a good car, and if BMW didn't offer a $10,000 discount I would have probably gone for that.

l0k Thanks. That's right, I remember about that $10k off for new i3 now; sweet deal. The used ones are also a bargain right now. Re: Bolt regen: it wasn't so much "loud" as "there" (and maybe felt more than heard?). Our e-Golf has no noise or vibration on regeneration, none, zip, nada. Maybe it's more noticeable on Bolt as the vehicle is much heavier. Still might be worth our looking at Bolt, there are some good deals.

Could be, haven't tested eGolf so I can't say for sure. The $10k discount was active in may, then back in july. I wouldn't be surprised if they offer it again shortly as they try to push the 2018 models out the door with the (supposed) 2019 range increase to 180ish miles. $48k for a i3 is bit much, but $38k and you start thinking "well, that's close to Bolt/leaf money, and it's quite zippy and fun so..." And yes, the Bolt is definitely worth looking into. I have a colleague who commutes about 80 miles each direction and is currently considering getting one.

Dean Hall The Zoe is no longer available new though in this guise or that pricing.

As a Zoe owner I think you are right about 2nd hand 'I' model not being good value for money. A brand new one is though. I also would never buy a battery lease car.

6 months wait and all you get at the end is a Zoe. What a let down.

You would pay for more cargo space, rear passenger space, better overall build and finish quality.

Electric Vehicle Man neither is the leaf.

@shadowsworldz State of Health. Basically maybe simplifying a bit too much, with the lease, when the battery reaches 75% of it's capacity (say the full charge only drives you 100 miles instead of 150 it did as new) you get a new battery. This means you can buy a 4 year old Zoe but the battery is still as good as new for you. That's why looking at 6 month old EVs for comparison you miss out on the upside of the lease

@shadowsworldz it is an upside. I guess the more direct comparison is to imagine the petrol/gas tank in your internal combustion car shrinks a bit everytime you fill up. Or during extreme weather. . But I'm no specialist and I don't know how quickly and how the use/charge cycles will affect it. Does it reach 75% SOH after a year? 2 years? I guess there's someone that crunched those numbers out there. Find out before you decide. Plus all the support mentioned on the original comment. You run out of battery and they send someone to "rescue" you. Warranty etc.. It's not just a silly extra expense. You can get a lot more car for less upfront money but depending on your use it might be more expensive year on year then a combustion engine car. But it might be it would take 20 years to make up the difference... I live in the UK so no idea about availability anywhere else.

Martin Wray The iZoe has been around years though and that was included in the ‘only 3 for sale’ in the UK. If they do a Nissan with the batt lease then this decision may change.

Electric Vehicle Man my bad. I was convinced, not sure why, that battery owned Zoes have only been available in the last 2 or 3 years.

Electric Vehicle Man perhaps it's not my bad after all? Some helpful chap on the rzoc Facebook page is saying that the I versions didn't appear in the UK until 2015.

3 years is 'years' to me? Considering the timescale EV's have been around.

Electric Vehicle Man I've got pants way older than 3 years. Thanks for another great video... Hoping you can get hold of a Kona next.

For me, yes. But I need the extra speed overnight too due to the missus getting home at 3:00am.

Scott Wills Compared to the Leaf in this video when new it is, I assume you’re comparing it to the new leaf that’s a lot more expensive. Assuming it fits your usage and size needs the i3 is a great choice. Factor in deposit and mileage as well of course.

Personally I wouldn’t given it’s age and likely battery state and range left. It’s an early one too. I’ve no idea how much a newer one would be though.

I'd been wrestling with a decision for a bit. Problem is it's the only used leaf in the province. Can't buy anything newer and the 2018 isn't even here. The Nissan Dealership isn't a authorized leaf dealer here lol.

Richard Hollett It doesn’t sound like a good intro to one tbh. Range is prob down to 55-65 miles in normal weather.

Awesome thanks for the info. I'll definitely pass on the leaf.

@@eng09 After a lot of research I would not buy a leaf under year. 2013 for value and depreciation

All recovery companies do that. Given the warranty on the batteries you’ve paid way more than a replacement would cost over that period.

It might be a better ev than the leaf, even though it is based on the leaf.

Find me somewhere that rents them. There aren’t any.

Electric Vehicle Man ironically the ENV200 has a better battery than the leaf 40kWh

Electric Vehicle Man rarer than hens teeth ;)!

There is zero safety in an ENV200 for families. Commercial vehicles aren't tested the same as cars for safety.

But it can’t rapid. Which is more useful.

Electric Vehicle Man the q can rapid charge also, its the r version that can't

gazbmw0 I find the Zoe options confusing to grasp.

Q : quick = possible at 43kw R: Range = only 22kw but lets say 5 to 10% more range max. The q version is the more reasonable

gazbmw0 BMW i3 can charge at 22kW or 50kW but only when using the right Level 3 charging station. Standard Level 2 is about 32 amps or around 7kW.

xchopp there are just 6 e-Golf on Autotrader now. Start at £18k for one that has done 40,000 miles. (I'd buy the Ioniq on there for £21k that has done just 1000 miles rather than any other EV at the moment.)

Therm O'Stat Yes, they are like gold dust here too. Just discovered this morning that there may be cadmium-in-the-charging-unit recall on all plug-in VWs (h/t Nikki at TEN), trying to find out if this affects my e-golf.

Update: VW has told me that my 2016 e-Golf SE is not affected. I am rather surprised -- don't they all have the same charging unit? We'll have to wait and see if the recall does come into effect for ours later on.

They don't cover the replacement? I thought the 8year warranty on batteries was universal. That's some bull...

l0k I agree. They have been dishonest, and have led the public to believe replacing the battery would be cheap, or even free under certain circumstances.

Might want to look at the age of the video.

@@ElectricVehicleMan 5 years ago it was already known.

Haha you looked on autotrader two years after he did and you seem surprised to not have got the same results.

5 year warranty on the 24kWh, 8 year on the 30. I'd go for 30.

I think that would be a better option and probably better resale value later too - plus a few extra miles range in the event of a road closure. My direct route home is occasionally closed due to snow as it's high and exposed.How are Leaves/Leafs in snow?

Use Michelin cross climate tyres if you have just one set. Proper winters are a world apart in snow so get snow tyres if it’s an issue.

The 24kw Leaf second hand would be marginal for that distance

You can buy a Zoe etc without battery lease.

JAMFUTUBE I didn’t give a conclusion?

Electric Vehicle Man 15:00?

Best value car, not best car.

Nissan Leaf is just the largest. 100 miles of range, and enough room for a 5 person family trip. What more could you want?

@@wojciechmuras553 Did you drive it? Probably not. Horrible!!!

@@1968matrix I own one... I've been driving it daily for over a year now.

@@wojciechmuras553 You should drive a base Model 3. We are talking about the same value, but the difference is unbelievable.

@@1968matrix I'm currently preparing to switch to a Model S. However, I paid 13,000€ for my Leaf. Go find a Model 3 for that price...

I had the cars for a day and do everything myself. This isn’t top gear with a film crew.

Electric Vehicle Man I know. I've watched all your videos. I'm not having a go lol. I'm offering suggestions. Just feel you need to spend more time with the i3 and ideally the rex. There's more to the car than you will find on a 1 day test. It's like a girl with a great personality that you only see after a few days. Banish those BMW predudices and pump up those tyres as I've said. Find out why so many owners say it's next gen compared to the others at the price point. You need to try the rex, it transforms the capability and shifts your expectations for the price. I did the Scotland 500 and we came across 3 broken chargers in a row, the rex took us up Mountains without any issue and at times I was chasing down a Ferrari on the country lanes with 10% SOC. I couldn't have done that in a leaf or Zoe lol.

Kind&Kegel Roller the original Leaf models have the worst record of any EV with respect to the battery degradation and life - except maybe the original Tesla roadster.

Calvin Grier are you kidding. The battery degradation on original roadster has far exceeded expectations and specifications. Mine is 7 years old and has lost just 9% of its original capacity (still 230 miles). I know most of the roadster owners in the UK and they are equally impressed with their cars. You hardly ever seen one being sold for that reason . It's also bulletproof reliable.

Mark Perrin was that the original nickel metal hydride battery? I don't own a roadster, so all I know is from reading about it.

Value is irrelevant if you can’t buy one. 3 for sale of any age in the UK when this video was done and only 1 under 3 years old. 1 car in the whole of the UK!

+1 on speak ev and you can buy new for around 17000...I'm a Leaf owner by the way but consider the Zoe to be far better value if size is acceptable.

You get an 8 year warranty on the battery so why bother leasing it.

Electric Vehicle Man warranty doesn’t cover degradation, when a leased Zoe goes below 75% Health you get a new battery

Of course it does! That’s the whole point of a battery warranty. Below 75% in the 8 year period, Nissan and any other manufacturer replace the battery.

its 60% on a battery owned Zoe and you don't get renault assist at all, so you will have hire car costs when its being fixed

The garage gives you a courtesy car, not Renault. Just like when you get it serviced.

Symlex Brn when will that be?

Who said the batteries degrade faster in the leaf? It’s also the biggest car here so none can fit 5 properly from long journeys better than the leaf.

Electric Vehicle Man Nissan chose to NOT use an active battery temperature management system. If you know about the chemistry of Lithium batteries, you know that they degrade when exposed to high and low temperatures - particularly when charging or discharging. www.greencarreports.com/news/1116020_nissan-leaf-30-kwh-battery-decline-3-times-that-of-earlier-electric-cars-study

And if you read that report it’s comparing the Leaf30 to the Leaf24, NOT other EVs. Nissan have also released a BMS update to address this. As the Leaf30 comes with an 8 year battery warranty, who cares!

Electric Vehicle Man - how can a BMS address active temperature management? Just read about used Leaf owners on User Forums - getting significantly less range than expected.

The BMS is what tells you the battery is degraded, it is doing this incorrectly. The battery is fine but the BMS doesn’t think it is so the update restores this.

I can. It’s the new 40 that can’t.

it can with the Q version motor, its the R version that is limited to 22kw, you can't even research this properly

It’s the new 40kWh Leaf that I was an about. Anyone who has done research would know the Zoe is 41kWh and I was talking about something else. Now jog on and shut up as you’re getting annoying now.

I was talking to the other guy in this thread!

I think the Zoe is uglier than the Leaf and the i3 (which I think is probably the ugliest of the 3). And for taller people like me the Zoe is basically at best a 3 person car, while the Leaf can take 5, so definitely more than a little more space. It all depends of course on what you need and want.

Mark Perrin Who cares it’s carbon fibre though. I’m looking at this as joe bloggs would, as a car! If the i3 is the best value then why are you on your 2nd Leaf? I’m not denying the i3 is better in some respects but in value terms alone it’s just behind the Leaf. Not everyone can afford one so there’s that and it’s far from a family car so it’s less capable in that respects. Carbon fibre and value have nothing to do with one another.

Electric Vehicle Man I think your missing that it's not even a competitor for leaf and Zoe. I3 owners know it's a step above in every respect. I have leaf, i3 and Tesla roadster sport. Leaf was a no brainer for value but i3 is a different league as a total car. Carbon fibre is an exotic material and is much lighter than steel. I3 will become a collectible BMW in time as it represents a huge innovation test for the brand. As I've said, it's misunderstood by many who seem to think it is just a small electric car which completely missed the point. It's a premium small electric vehicle like the mini and it's not aimed at the bargain bucket crowd. Is a different demographic to leaf and Zoe which are bought on price not quality. I3 offers more for those who appreciate it. Look at the difference of the LED adaptive lights on the i3 compared to the LED bulbs on the leaf, they are night and day In terms of quality. Compare the sound of the Harman Kardon system with the terrible Bose system in the leaf. You pay more and you get a lot more but in a smaller package. i3 represents a vision of the future, leaf and Zoe represent cheap electric cars based on Ice cars. I3 has more in common with a Tesla and ipace in terms of its design. How BMW do it for the price is beyond me, I suspect they loose money on every i3 sold. It's loaded with innovation in its production and materials. The battery is far superior to the one used by Renault and Nissan for starters with a much higher cycle capability. You need to dig deeper with this car as I've told you before.

Electric Vehicle Man just because some can't afford the i3 doesn't make it bad value. Can you name another carbon fibre tub car to compare it with on price? McLaren? Suddenly it seems cheap. How about another 180bhp electric car? How does it stack up on price then? You wouldn't compare a BMW 3 series with a Citroen C5, they aim at different demographics. If someone has 3 children they probably wouldn't look at the i3 for that reason but it is actually quite big in the back for 2 people and the boot is fine considering you keep the cables in the frunk anyway. It also has split seats in the rear and those elastic straps in the boot are really useful. I've said it before and I will say it again, get out in a rex and do 500 miles in it to somewhere there is no charging network. It's a different level of convenience that no other EV can match. Lands end to john o Groats the i3 rex would arrive 5.2 hours before a model X.

Electric Vehicle Man in case you havent realised, EV is a niche. We all already know everything there is to know about the cars we have bought. We're all nerds and if the i3 is carbon fibre then the owners all know that already . Are you thinking the layman is even looking at EV like this? They aren't. I worked for Renault and the Zoe was invisible to customers. We're years away for the layman showing an interest.

You just said above the Leaf is a no brainer for value so what part of the video have I got wrong? I said the i3 was better on interior and fun, what part don't you agree with? As for affordability, it has to be factored in when doing a video for the general public and as I said in the video, nigh on impossible to please everyone with the answer.

You do know many were sold without a rex.

@@ElectricVehicleMan about 40%....

Contact Nissan. I did do a video about it a year or so ago when it was launched.

Electric Vehicle Man thanks found it. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iNqDeZRj3tTVnHU.html

Look how old this video is fella! And look at the price of an i3 in relation to the others. £££££

Car Maniac That’s not available in this country.

well, its not available anywhere as it will be released in 2019.

Battery upgrades have not been available in the UK at all - BMW UK do not offer or support battery upgrades from the 60 Ah to 94 Ah. I'd say it's unlikely they'll offer it to the 120Ah - not when enough people will happily buy new.

i3 best value LOL, its a £35K car thats got poor range, its just about to be killed off by the Hyundai Kona, which has a 64kwh battery for £29k

MrMoonX well if you consider that you have the very first i3 and you can change the battery that's twice the size, yes it's good value.

Takes me a few hours for a full charge 'away from a mway' and tbh who needs a fast charge when 'away from a mway'? Leasing can be cheaper for a full car, especially as a company write off.

Click reply on the post rather than create a new thread genius!

Yes, what have the french ever done for us? I mean, apart from the brie. And the saucisson. And the Burgundy. And inexpensive, highly practical, comfortable and efficient cars? And beautiful cities? I think art was already mentioned. Yes, what have the french ever done for us?

France is a beautiful country, but too many French. Does that answer your questions?