Hi, I can only remember 1 at the corner, but that's not to say there wasn't one further down though, oh hold on, I have just watched my 1st run in the full video and at that time there was only 1 bank staff to cover the whole course. Perhaps it's because there weren't many paddlers on the course for that session. As you can see from my videos, no water on the Legacy is out of my comfort zone, some drops hate me of course and made me somewhat anxious (not so much now) but I am comfortable in swimming in all sections. What is not good is that there is nothing at those blocks that aid self-extraction, i.e. no step and no lips/small protrusions like there are on all of the other blocks that I have swam at. I wasn't aware that the biggest drop was like this, it came as a surprise because it made self-extraction that much harder. I am all for helping oneself but if the means are not there how are we supposed to do so as per the declaration? Not to blow my own trumpet here but not everyone will know how to chimney climb, it is only because I used to rock climb that gave me the idea to do so. When I finally figured out that I had to chimney climb and managed to get out, the bank staff was still standing on the corner, i.e. they weren't busy helping someone else, I was peed off because it meant that they didn't or couldn't see me in that eddy and also, it meant the staff/instructor that paddled past me whilst I was standing in that eddy didn't raise the alarm either. My concern was and still is, what if I was a youngun and or injured or worse, does the declaration really absolve all or does having bank staff actually place some liability on the centre? I'm just spitballing, I am not saying it does or it doesn't, it's just a thought that has been in my head since then.

Hi, this isnt a river, this white water course is totally different, the bank staff are there to help you due to the nature of the "banks", its what we pay for in part after all. If one day there were no bank staff able to come in then the run would be closed.

Thank you for the kind words, they are much appreciated :)

Self rescue in the sense that you can exit your boat. The bank staff are there to help you full stop, be it out of the flow, if you cannot get out of the eddy, accident and so on. You pay for the bank staff. As for the unconcious part, not necessarily, didnt you notice the boat? They don't have them on every feature because they can see all of the section that they are safety on. Since i have been going there has always been staff covering all of that section, if you watch another video you will see that one is normally stood at the big eddy with the steps after the next drop, they can see right up to where i was and would have see me go over, I can post a photo but see the very start of this video, kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bqtzlsJ607eud6s.html&ab_channel=SubParPaddler

This is a White Water center, you pay for the bank staff, also its not like a river where the banks are, a lot of the time, easier to get out of, this top eddy had no small lip on those blocks making it much more difficult than normal to get out. Not to mention having to sort out my boat myself, that's something the staff does for you as a rule, it is what they are paid for after all when on a river you're normally paddling with others (or should be) that will help you on a swim, its no different here except the bank staff are paid to do it. Not to mention that people with disabilities paddle there too, what should we say to them? Final point, did you actually see me depend on anyone in the video, anyone at all or did you actually see me help myself?

My goodness, what a wildly ignorant comment, Jeremy Taylor. I'm guessing you haven't left your couch in years.

This isnt a river, we pay in part for the staff to be bank side, you dont on a river hence not to paddle alone. The staff are there to help you and your boat, actually, every time I have gone to help get my boat out the staff have said no, they will do it, its a health and safety thing here int he UK anyway.

@@SubParPaddler yeah I know LV but regardless if you can’t look after yourself nor rely on the staff maybe paddling in a pair is a shout. Just a thought

@@olliethompson9252 A bit of a long one, sorry, being very new to the sport, I started the Intro course late October/September '23, then I did the Developing course a few months back (videos for that one on here) and only recently passed the assessment, therefore, I need as much practice as I can get but also have very few friends that do this sport so having a buddy on the run is a rarity, although, I am making new friends through going so maybe not as rare in the future. Its a bit of a catch 22, i need the practice but you say I shouldn't go alone but only for the help if I swim. I really do not think that that should stop me paddling on my own, granted, I do usually swim around 3 to 5 times but it was only twice on this day so, hopefully, I am getting somewhat better (probably not lol). After editing and watching the video back I now know what i should have done at that top eddy, more power, I underestimated it, it was a rookie mistake as they say but then I am a rookie ;) hopefully, next time I wont make that same mistake, I have gotten out of that eddy before so it WAS just a silly mistake. As a side note,, I normally swim after the drops, not when breaking out, as I said, I underestimated it. As a rule I can get myself out after a swim and a did so this time, including my boat, but with this stop eddy it was made more difficult with there being no lip to get a foot hold like there are on other blocks, hence i was a little pissed that there were no staff watching those top drops, main reason, what if i was injured? just last Wednesday a young lad broke his arm after being rammed, granted, that was on the Olympic but i just showing that it does happen and that we cant always help ourselves.

Lets admire martins lovely green helmet.

​@@twh27it's a bloody pain, when it gets soaked (5x today lol) it soaks in the water like a sponge and constantly dripping down my face :/

Erm, by extension, the bank staff are the product. Would that run close if there were no bank staff or not enough to cover? I believe it would. Self extraction is only possible if there is an obvious way to get out and there isn't in that eddy, certainly not easily like in the other eddies. Had I been a child or maybe a female then climbing out the way I did may not cross their minds as chimeny climbing is a rock climbing method. There are no footholds on those blocks and as the blocks and wall are too high to get out like you would at a pool it may leave one stuck in that eddy. BTW, TBWWC and NAWWC do not have bank staff due to how easy it is to get out of those, LV and Cardiff do have bank staff as they are more difficult to get out. One other point, on the LV website in the FAQ's, under All Water Activities / What happens if I fall out, (excerp) "Our bank safety team will be on hand to rescue you and safely help you out of the water before helping you back to join your group." IMO that contradicts the public paddling declaration where it states that the paddler must make every effort ot extract themselves but then that brings me back to my original points, thats only possible if one is not injured or does not have a disability or other reasons and if there is an obvious way to do so. Having no foothold makes it far less obvious.

@@SubParPaddler most of tbiwwc is hard to get out of when swimming, and often have to swim downstream to a big eddy, but even then the water is quite deep in places. Also, that faq are from bespoke sessions such as rafting

@@NearyTV my point still stands though, its easier to get out there due to the lower sides than it is at LV. As for the FAQ, I wouldnt have mentioned it hadit not applied, it specifically states "All water activities".

HI, is that Northants Active? If so been there, didnt like it, not enough room :) I did pool sessions over the winter with my local club, but i am pretty much self taught with the roll, hence why i am not that good, I am going to practice over the summer on the lake at LV.

​@SubParPaddler A bit further north than that, The tees barrage. see if you can get a mate to T rescue you while you practice for 5 minutes before each session. getting used to the cold water should help you keep your head when you get dunked for real.it's all about building up muscle memory so your 100% confident in it.

Thank you, I appreciated it, that's the way it should be, even if it just was to ask if I was OK

Thank you, it could have ended badly, especially considering a young (13ys max) lad had gone over in that eddy too just as i was emptying my boat down at the steps, stll no staff on the bank at that time but he did have a coach with him and he did end up at the blocks in the next swim so it was a bit easier for him, thankfully.

Firstly, what gave you the idea that i was "worked up"? peed off maybe, worked up, deffo not. Secondly, I am new to White Water (as of September last year) and I only passed the LV assessment around a month or so ago. That said, I can easily self extract from all of the other eddies that i have ended up in because they all had the tiny little lip that your foot can get purchase on. My issue regarding this one is that there are no lips on those blocks as there are on the others, with that and it being one of the steeper drops makes this harder to climb out of. Now that i know how, it wont be as hard next time, so please, go easy on a noob.

That would make more sense wouldnt it, I have wondered the same thing, even on the blocks that have the small lip, it would make life a bit easier. Please, dont let this put you off, all in all its a great, safe place to paddle, i think that because it was the first run of the day not all the staff were in as there usually is someone down at the large eddy and they can see right up into that top eddy,

Not yet chap, I am debating on it :)

Thanks for the words of encouragement, means a lot, considering I only started WW at LV last October and I can only get to LV once a week at most, I have to learn with what i have, but hey, you carry on putting newbies down if it makes you feel special!