The Tories are not finished they live on in the Labour Party

The Conservative Party was doomed the moment David Cameron decided to hold a referendum on EU membership.

The Labour Party - in it's truest, most traditional sense - died 30 years ago.

Yeah, but the tories are just a vehicle though which wealth forces it's will on the population. The tories might go away but what caused the tories to be what they are is still right there, it will just shift it's influence to another party. And it already seems to be happening in Labour.

2019 was the the most important general election, it was when hope died and the scene was set for the far right to fill the void.

Best interview with anyone interested in British politics I've watched in 5 years. Outstanding.

I'm not a man of the right in any sense, but have never listened to Oborne without nodding furiously in agreement. His ability to join the dots is unparalleled in the political media.

Britain became an oligarchy a long time ago and oligarchs abolish politics. Mr Oborne is a brilliant commentator but his comments are about 20 years out of date. Radicalized groups tend to emerge when people feel they have nowhere else to go.

You be careful, Aaron. Too many thoughtful pieces like this and you'll be a national treasure in 20 years. This was a truly engaging piece. Peter Oborne has always been thoughtful and it is good to have a rational right winger to challenge my naturally left leaning mindset.

This decline was begun by Thatcher, it just wasn’t visible for a while.

I'm chuffed that the Tory monster is soon to be vanquished, but I'm terrified of the monster that will win the fight to take its place. I'm also terrified that the main alternative has become a monster of its own.

If he wouldn't tell me, I'd think Peter is actually a liberal rather than Conservative. That's how far right Conservatives actually are.

We need PR asap. As much as Farage would gain from it, so would all the other smaller parties, so it's our best way to keep a party like Reform in check. Keeping to FPTP risks a merged tory x reform party taking power in 2029 or 2034. And if they take power with FPTP, we're unlikely to ever be rid of them. Not least because it will force an already tory-lite Labour to lurch ever more to the right. We need a recalibration. PR is our best chance for that.

Content like this is why I support Novara Media. Superb Interview!

Conservative Peter Oborne and Communist Aaron Bastani talking constructively. THIS is what democracy should look like.

What a gem of a discussion.

Living here in France (where we're going through our own ructions) I find it a little ironic when people take "what's happening in France" as some kind of warning for the future. In fact, in many ways the equivalent of the French National Rally has been in government in the UK for a long time. What people like Braverman says is often harsher than the NR.

I read a book by Obourne decades ago arguing that David Cameron set a new low for political lying. How quaint in retrospect!

Breaking Tories to form new party with Reform. New name CONFORM.

There's a certain naivety to this type of Conservative, the world he laments was created by the exact ideology he claims to follow, which, by his own admission, was only held together by the arbitrary decency of a few individuals. He can call out the pivot to the far right all he wants, it won't change the fact that this pivot is baked within even moderate conservatism, and if the last 5 years are anything to go by, it's incredibly easy to dismantle this vague adherence to "decency and the rule of law".

Thank you both, such a relief to listen to a considered political conversation and analysis 👏

A man of integrity and wisdom

Conservatives or not Peter Oborne is a brilliant and fair minded man with high standards RESPECT.

A fascinating interview with a man not afraid to critique and analyse the forces at play in the demise of decency in politics. Thanks!

The Tories will split into different ideological strands, and flow into Reform, LibDems and Labour.

Johnson’s was no more Tory than Blair was Labour. Both extremely cynical men, whose sense of life, success, thrill and achievement came from their venal desire to be at the apex of society, rather than serving it. Both mangled language: Blair denuded it of all meaning, practically inventing a new lexicon ( “jobs” become “opportunity pathways”, “welfare” becomes “support” - and thus immune to metrology - and state employees hired to carry-out specific functions like Citizens Aid or old-age care became “support networks” - again, we see the deliberate and ablative choice to soften, to blur…and thus, to shift responsibility and cost. Johnson, therefore was subsequently able to deploy an anti-language to counter all of this (as he might say) : guff. It was a perfectly accommodating one-two punch and is rather sad in that it echos two class-japing tropes: Blair , the working-class (hah!) champion, “Our Lad did well, don’t he talk posh now?” And Johnson, a sort of Guy Ritchie-inspired posho barrow-boy, slumming it for kicks because he wants an edgey mate who’s a brick-layer and a meth-dealer…

This was a really interesting interview. Peter makes a really important point about the shallowness of Starmer, and how his victory will not translate into a mandate for anything meaningful, because he has not laid out any real vision for people to vote for. The public is going into this election to vote AGAINST the Conservatives. They’re not going in to vote FOR Labour. So Starmer may get a big majority, but it would be built on a foundation of sand. I’ll use the example of Thatcher. You voted for her or against her. You knew what she stood for. If she won, she had a mandate and she used that mandate to enact specific policies and everyone understood this. What the heck does Starmer stand for, other than to be elected? He will say anything, backstab anyone, and lie and backslide to everyone, if he feels it would help him become PM. That’s not a mandate for anything. And he would be crushed if he goes up against anyone real.

The Tories are finished for good, what's happened to the Tories will be prominent in the minds of Labour if they have any sense at all. The people of Britain have woken up to being ignored, used, ripped of, one law for one class, one law for others, unaccountable civil servants, unaccountable MPs, failing legal system. It all has to end and total respect and responsibility shown to the electorate.

"Trevellyan was a great civil servant" - Oborne should ask the Irish about this abhorrant man. Whose "Conservative wisdom" led to a policy that forced the Irish to emigrate in coffin ships or starve to death because of a catastrophic famine. Trevellyan's strong belief in laissez-faire economics led to the deaths of million of Irish citizens. I rest my case.

Quick reminder from the US: Republicans weren't finished after Bush Jr., they went crazier. Be prepared for the loonies, guys.

Oborne is one the best journalists around

Interesting to hear his anger when talking about how neither the Tories nor Labour have denounced Farage properly. I have no love for the Conservative party but I am concerned about whatever comes after their demise, all the decent people are gone and it's just the self serving and bigoted dregs that remain.

Jaysus, I'm agreeing with Oborne. A decades long member of the Labour Party here. I guess you can find agreement across the shallow lines of politics. See also Rory Stewart.

Didn’t it start with Margaret Thatcher’s “no such thing as society”? Cutting the ties that bind us together…

Peter Oborne it’s a rare jewel as a journalist.

Best interview in this series. Well done.

Genuinely loved this interview. It’s funny how we talk about this is replacing legacy media, but this is what legacy media once was.

If anyone is waiting for Starmer to take a principled stand on any subject then you are going have wait till doomsday.

A man of authenticity and a fascinating dialogue. Such interactions are immensely important - they should happen across civil society if we are ever to deal with the actual issues on the ground such as climate change.

And the UK is finished too. Thank you Sunak and thank you in advance Sir Kneel Starmer.

Peter oborne is the only honest decent man in all of the current political spectrum. His analysis is top form, if only we had a political leader like him.

For the algorithm so many more people see this. Good luck Britain from TEXAS

I would like the thank Mr Oborne for playing his part in getting us to this point in UK politics. His soft voice and intellect doesn’t wash with me.

Thank you for inviting Peter Osborne.

If they hadn't tripled migration, the Conservatives would not be facing annihilation. This is a consequence of Brexit: governments can't blame insanely high migration on the EU and the Conservatives will therefore pay the price for their utter betrayal. I look forward to Labour receiving much the same treatment when they inevitably triple-down...

I keep hearing from the Tories it was all Johnson as if none of the others were corrupt. The Tories have always been corrupt they happily went along with it some even now want him back. Why? Because he's their best liar and to a Tory that's all that matters.

I have watched several commentaries from Peter Oborne about varying subjects. Despite differences in our political views at times, he is always right on the money and this video is no exception. Cheers Novara, quality journalism as always.

Oborne a genuine legend. Has real integrity

I've always liked Peter even when he was mainstream. He most probably got fed up with what it means to be a fair and honest mainstream journalist these days.

The One Nation Tories have mostly left or been pushed out, the party members supported Lizz and like Farage, so a major change is needed. Tories will lose fight among themselves move further right alienate voters and lose again in 2029, and maybe 2035, can Reform UK re-build on the right and attract MP's leaving the Tories then become official opposition in 2029? Maybe? That's millionaire Farage's aim. It happened in drama (BBC) Years and Years and the right wing populist played by Emma Thompson was funded by Russia and here politics were unworkable. If Labour fail the far-right could take control in the future!! That is a scary thought.

The number of bots on Novara vids is encouraging, speaks to their growth

I like this guy

The media attitude, To George Galloway Shows that he is deemed a threat to the establishment

They can challenge Farage all they want but he will just say look at the establishment picking on me.

Great Interview,Peter is always worth listening to,worrying times ahead. Thank you both.✌

Ĺabour have been Tory Lite since Blair

Couldn’t happen to a more deserving party, their move to the right has been appalling!

Zero Tory seats this time. Zero Labour seats next time

"the most successful political organization in the western world, ever" THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH

Peter has such a deep understanding, from a vantage point of genuinely caring for people and for the truth.

Such a good one this time. Love Peter ❤

Remember people said the Tories were finished in 1997 and 13 years later they were the government...

The future of British politics is in a dire state whatever colours are supported.

If the plane metaphor is applied to Labour that isn't looking good for the future either.

Johnson really should be called to account by our justice system, but he never will be, whilst most of our political mps and leaders allow money to run our politics.

A proper British Prime Minister minister would have denounced Farage by now, says Oborne. But there, on telly on the iTV debate was Penny Mordaunt, senior fascist, I mean Tory, telling us how much she has in common with him! She ruled out a collaboration but there it is. Conservatives are Reform-Lite. Someone on these comments said that Labour had been weak on this too. In fact, the only mention I’ve found by Labour re-Farage, was Angela Rayner retweeting Rachel Reeve, saying that candidates should be able to their jobs without fear of being pelted. To which I replied that I wish Angela and Rachel had been so vociferous about children in Gaza being pelted by Israeli bombs! It’s a terrifying state of affairs for politics.

The more I hear from these old tories here on Novara, the more I respect them. Not that they change my mind or make me want to vote for them, but I feel like our differences are philosophical but driven by the same impulse - the desire to create a better future. We would differ on how and on the assumptions that would underly our positions, but I wouldn't doubt their sincerity. Whereas the new lot I absolutely do doubt their sincerity - they're out for themselves and their rich mates and to hear people like Oborne and Hitchens saying so is really quite astounding.

I voted for Blair. Its a regret, even though we did get some good stuff. I hadnt realised until the last few years how venal he was.

Incredible interview. One thing that played on my mind about the failures of the guardian over the past decade or so stems from the memory of their offices being raided during the wikileaks coverage. Almost overnight there seemed to be an obvious change in the way they conducted business with far more of a leaning to the establishment and a timidity in holding powerful forces to account. The rot of neoliberalism spread quickly through it's coverage, I perceived far more platforming of rightwing ideas and obvious spin... I wonder what really went down in those raids, if indeed they are the nexus point I attribute them to being.

If the tory party ceases to exist it will not be because they failed, but because they have succeeded and their work is done and faces no risk of being undone.

Re: Farages rhetoric, it gives me no pleasure to say this, especially as somebody of half British and Pakistani ethnicity, but there is a problem with integration and shared values amongst huge swathes of British Muslims. There are rare instances of harmony, my grandma, a very religious Muslim, had a gate built into her back garden fence so her and her neighbour and best friend, Mary, a staunch Catholic, can just wander in for tea with each other. Sadly, as I said, it is rare.

Telling how he cannot name a single "ordinary" job.

It isn´t the most successful in the Western world. The Swiss Radical Party is. In power since 1848, it has simply extended its coalition since a referendum it opposed imposed proportional representation on it in 1918. The Canadian Liberal Party has also been much more successful in terms of the percentage of time it has been in power. Likewise the Japanese Liberal Democratic Party. Kindly do a proper comprehensive comparative analysis.

Peter Osborne is a marvellous example of why the old British Tories are completely out of touch with a modern political movement which is countering Postmodernism and "multiculturalism".

If the Labour Party get elected into government in 2024, I predict one of the shortest political honeymoons in living memory.

This guy seems to be proposing that there was a time in history when the Tories didn’t prioritise looking after the wealthy over the common good 😂😂😂

This is an interesting, illuminating, and intelligent political interview. Such a pity the Tories and Labour are campaigning as if we are all halfwits.

It's not YOUR Britain Oborne, it belongs to the people of Britain.

One of the best interviews I have ever heard, will listen again and absorb more fully.

The Americanization of British politics

The only conservative worthy of any respect. Because he is truthful and honest

I don't think Rory Stewart is 'overwhelmed' by Alistair Campbell at all. Rather than view him through such a lens, I believe the two, together, make an intriguing connection of what is possible when the narrative is not subverted by blindness to a single ideology.

The Tories represent the interest of billions. Billions of pounds, that is. Trust me, they will be back.

Has Peter got a good word to say a good word to say about any politician?

Stating that it's been 'the most successful political party of the last 200 years' isn't necessarily an endorsement. The degree of cumulative damage, and the number of wasted opportunities for social progress within the UK, has been appalling. It isn't just the Conservative Party itself, it's the right-wing world view in general. Whereas the Left observes and analyses the frailties in human nature, and seeks to create conditions to ameliorate them (education reforms, healthcare, subsidised housing, employment opportunities, social security, etc), the Right will always seek the means to exploit them for political gain, by promoting envy, fear, resentment, and insecurity, before harnessing the support it then garners to serve its own purposes.

I used to buy the "how interesting - I agree with a Tory!" as a sign of political sophistication. But hearing him mischaracterise populism as "FaSciSm" without any awareness of how managerial complacency led to that public discontent, makes this guy an utter midwit. Go hang out with Goodall and Maitliss, Peter, and leave the rest of us to find the solutions.

Peter was spot on with Johnson being a POS. The Tories are all the same the Gauks, Clarkes still hammered the weakest in society.

I think the Tories are gonna be reborn as a far-right party after Starmer’s political failure.

Farage over the target. Never seen vitriol against him like this. It's coming from the left and right.

I think that Starmer doesn't want to say anything about Farage because the damage that he's doing to the tories.

There are some remarkable parallels with American politics. Also, Britain and America seem to go through major polical turns at similar times.

This is what we in the USA thought about the Republican Party in 2008. Like Jason from Friday the 13th, they always come back for the sequel.

Starmer isn’t going to denounce Farage and Reform during the campaign as the more votes Reform takes from the Tories, the bigger his victory. It’s cynical, but understandable I suppose.

The Conservative Party leaders (candidates) are chosen by donors (and those in their pockets). Then voted for by limited party members. How can the honest and the talented rise to the top? It is a rotten model.

great to see when free of toryism our country will progress and have its great leap forwards!!

Labour are an equal monstrosity, and so are most other contenders. Politics is dead to me. We need something else.

But what are Tories? Pro-capital. That is alive and well in the Liebour party

Q: If Keir Starmer & Associates are the New Tories, what difference does it make if the Tories are finished? A: Well ... erm ... yes.

Fascinating insight from a brilliant journalist, the historical context behind the modern Tories certainly was an education! Great interview, thanks

I saw a reform candidate campaigning in my town centre Saturday.I shouted to him, "YOU NEED SOME SOCIALISM IN YOUR LIFE BROTHER" Love will win