Jeff, you are leaving a massive, massive point on the table here. This video is about barrier to _entry_, not barrier to _winning_. To start out in the sport, all you need is a $500 second hand bike and about $300 worth of apparel (clothes, event fees, etc) and you are good to go. Once you participated a few times, and you know that you like it, you can start upgrading all the items one by one, spreading the $3000- ish cost picture you paint this video out over the first year or so.

Back in the day, a bike was 2000 usd and a power meter 2500, now you can buy a power meter for 300 bucks, and a bike for only 5-12 thousand 😂

Agreed with most of your video, except for electronic shifting ... it's too expensive. You'll be fine with 11 speed mechanical.

From the crashes Ive seen in cat 5 races what you want is an old cheap second hand aluminum rim brake bike that you wont be upset crashing on as much.😅

Thanks for providing positivity and perspective, it seems like all we ever hear about is grumbling

One of the best reasons for Disc Brakes is it has allowed tyre clearance on frames to improve, which in turn has made bikes far more comfortable as well as fast.

I just love how Jeff has been raising a middle finger to KZfaq algo which favours longer videos. You go, Jeff! 🔥 Keep it concise. Thank you for appreciating our time.

Very true. It's still an expensive sport, but people need to remember a newer, well built $3000 bike is going to be "maybe" 1% slower than the highest end bikes on most rides. Your clothing, position, and tires will have a much bigger impact than your frame, wheels, and group set will. So unless you're racing at a very high end, gear isn't going to slow you down enough to even notice. It's all training after that. That being said, I get the hype on the expensive bikes, they're freaking cool, but it's more bling than bang. There's a pro riding in my area that does his training road rides on a gravel bike and is faster than I'll ever be despite me riding a road specific race bike.

One thing to remember. When your racing on rim brakes your not doing a lot of braking in a crit if your doing it right!

I live on a twisty road with a max gradient of 14% it's 6km long and T junction at the bottom. I can absolutely promise you disc brakes are better than rim brakes, it's not even close.

I just upgraded to 12s on the 105 mech platform and I opted to skip the Di2 option and with the money saved by going with mechanical, I used that for a power meter crankset which when it comes time to race day, it will be far more beneficial knowing that my training has been up to par by achieving power output goes over a split second smoother shift. Having a power meter vs Di2 it terms of literal usefulness and progression mech shifting + power meter wins hands down.

From my experience the second hand bike market is an absolute gold mine right now Bought a 2019 Cervelo S3 rim brake with Di2 and Fulcrum speed 40/55s with not a scratch on it for €2800 ($3000) for my dad Also got a 2016 Cube Lighting C62, Di2 with a power meter for €1100 ($1200). Spent a grand on upgrading wheels, handlebars and getting super light components so its now 6.5kg with 88mm wheels after barely spending 2k on it Also helped a friend find a Specialized SL6 rim brake Di2, that was going with two sets of wheels and chainrings and had a complete full service with fresh components added to it for €2900 ($3100) These bikes I was drooling over in college and now that people are moving away from rim brakes they are going for prices that are actually scandalous lol Anybody who has 1200-1500 to spend can get elite ready to race and win machines if you look for 2016-2019 rim brake era bikes. Absolute gold mine

Agree 100%. The used market is saturated with everything someone needs to get started. Or get upgraded.

While youre right that theres a lot of useful affordable technolgy nowadays, the price for road bikes (or gravel bikes) skyrocketed...

Nice video! You kept it so real and practical. Anyone considering getting into road racing would benefit from this.

I agree that the move to disc brakes was entirely motivated by manufacturers wanting to sell you carbon wheels without getting sued by people crashing in the wet…

Thanks for bringing some perspective. Great videos as always.

I'm very confused about this rim or disc brake discussion. If I apply full power to my rim brakes, my tires skid and I fishtail. That's *too much* braking power. Why would I want more? Do disc brakes come with ABS, or increase my grip?

Durianrider is about to make his way to your comments at some point. His rim/disc brakes radar is through the roof 😂😂🤣🤣

THanks Jeff. Good info and perspective on getting started in bike racing.

You are right about disc brakes being a must on nice carbon wheels. Also they brake way worse on wet carbon anyways. But for a training bike or beater bike on alu rims(they last forever, never worn out alu rims with rim brakes even as a heavier rider) rims brakes are still perfectly fine if you factor in cost and weight, maybe even better. Dry or wet(basically no difference on alu) they stop perfectly fine. On a road bike though. if it gets caked in mud like a MTB or Gravel bike get disc brakes still

Hey Jeff, thank you for the great video! It will surely help some folks not being afraid of making the right decisions! I would like to talk about another very important aspect to get better at cycling: do a bike fit! It willl improve your position, pedal smootheness and efficiency and overall a more comfortable position = better performance. It's not as expensive as before and it is easy to find. Stay safe and have fun everyone

Another perfect and short video and love it

I got into road cycling about 3 1/2 years ago, started off with a 600€ used bike with 10 speed ultegra and Mavic alloy rims. A year in a got me a used carbon frameset and some 45mm wheels. Last November i orderd me a Elves Falath Evo with the one piece handlebar and wheelset for 1700€. Slapped on a 105 DI2 and some Assioma pedals and am so happy that i took my time researching before buying. Building it was a dream, no hassle or hickups. Got a 1000km on it by now and just love it. It´s fast and stiff but still compfy on 30mm GP5000. What is most important, know what you want, set yourself a $ limit, and do your research before you buy. There is a lot of "bang for the buck" out there, no need to go "big brand" and pay a premium for the name.

Your road tubeless experience is very different to mine. you do get flats and they are very difficult to fix after spending 20mins getting the tyre off the last time I have returned to tubes, the new plastic one are even lighter than the sealant and you can fix them on the road without covering everything in goo.

No one has told my local marketplace sellers pandemic pricing is over, still absurd prices on used market :(. I gave up and just threw on new components on my old bike

Does anyone still race on tubs? I still have wheels with 22mm tubs, that you pump up to 95 psi.

I’m looking to build my new bike. Liking the Winspace and some others. There’s a lot of great options - agree it’s a great time with all the new tech.

Damn Jeff nice into music and footage! Your content is slamming!

Good points all 'round. My first powermeter was a second hand Powertap wheel (remember those?) that served me for about 15,000 miles and cost $300. The boujie stuff is nice but you can accomplish your goals without breaking the bank.

That’s being said I do love my ENVE wheelset.

I think things have gotten less accessible. 10 years ago you could get a carbon ultegra bike for around 2k and would fit in perfectly in the local race scene. Now for 2k you're getting tiagra/105 aluminum, have fun competing in the local field with everyone who's on a carbon Aero frame with deep section wheels, fully integrated cables and wearing a skin suit.

Marketing influence koolaid poured into a large glass. Half of what you mentioned is not needed to get into road cycling/racing. It's all a matter of personal preference and how much $$$. Thanks for the informative videos.

Cracking up at the rim brake bit... I'd love to see you debate durianrider on disc vs rim brakes... that dude is the official spokesman of hating bike technology that came after 1980 😂

Love your videos! Do you wear presctiption glasses? Wondering if you prefer wearing prescription lenses or contacts when riding?

for roadcyccling nobody rides tubeless in belgium. only pros in a race. on training days pros do not ride tubeless as they also detest the mess

"Dont fall for the marketing".. but also.. Disc brakes..

Loving the channel, please do a video comparing power and speed between a $3-4k road bike and a 8-10k .

$1k for me to drop on a set of bicycle wheels is still seems crazy expensive for what you're getting. I really just do not understand how it could cost so much to manufacture. For me, $1k is a lot of money to spend on anything.

Respectfully, I've been riding a set of rim brake Zipp 404 tubulars since 2005. I'm over 80,000 km on these wheels now. Best wheels ever - super light and super durable! Let's be honest, disc brakes are only superior in wet conditions, period. Riders have to spend thousands to get a climbing frame under 800 grams and then they slap on disc brakes that add back 500+ grams not to mention balloon tires that also add more weight. Not good engineering if you ask me - an engineer. Road bikes should be getting lighter per dollar, not heavier. Many clubs like ours ride disc brake gravel bikes on the rainy winter days and road bikes on the dry summer days. Rim brakes on a road bike are fit for purpose. If you can lock your rear wheel with a rim brake, you sure don't need a much heavier disc brake to do the very same thing on a road bike.

Great video. Just my 2c Prices are still high due to COVID for most items, both used and new. Rim vs Disk is only beneficial for weight savings but what you said is spot on for parts lasting longer. Can older wheels be converted to tubeless? How are they against punctures? I'll look for your vid on that

A friend of mine was asking me about bikes recently and said he wants in and for me to help him look for something. I found a $650 Synapse I think and his head exploded at the price. Most people expect a bike to cost what they cost at Walmart and are off put immediately. But to your point, once there in it, then yes, you're video makes sense as far as getting "more" into cycling.

Great video 👏

I just ordered a new Giant at 33% off. Crazy deals gong on right now.

Preach it! People need to stop complaining about stuff existing outside of their price range, it’s like pointing to a $800k Ferrari as proof of how expensive all cars are🙄. Whatever price range you’re in, you’re getting something better today than you would’ve gotten 5-10yrs ago.

I like the comment on diminishing returns, just like in hifi circles👍

Coming from CX use to wider tires with cantis. So glad for disc now even mechanical cable pull currently. The hills locally and nearby mountains pushed cantis to the limit of braking power. To the point of needing to put a foot out to slow coming down long descents. Even making detours to avoid risky traffic intersections at bottom of hills. Hated going back to road bike when CX season down with on rim brakes due the smaller tires on mixed surface needed to get around and rougher pavement. Felt like the tires was lacking. To the point I just ride the CX bike outside and road bike on trainer even the cantis and the issues it brings. But disc brakes solve that. Had to retire my rim wheels due brake track worn out expect for the light alloy race/ climb only tubular set. Forcing me to disc during pandemic shortage on a given old demo bike sitting in team storage for some years.

BIG QUESTION, how do you pedal? Like, how do you press on your pedal? From 1 to 4 o'clock or something else?

Refreshing perspective. So many people get hung up on being retro grouches or complain about price gouging. It's true a race bike is expensive but the balance between tech and pricing is better than ever

you know I'm happy I've started with my Giant Defy Advanced 3 (2016) and progressively upgraded it: carbon wheels DT Swiss!, Shimano 105, ng power meter... eventually on Factor O2 VAM with Ultegra di2. I appreciate every upgrade that feels good and makes the things easier. The prices of bikes went up a lot during the pandemic like by 60-70%. However... the accessories seems cheeper. I've also spotted that the pars are still cheaper in US than the Europe :/ I wish I have a handlebars with a detachable aerobars... but that costs $850.00 in US and over $1135 in Europe! nuts.

Electronic groupsets still have a way to drop before their "affordable"

I was able to score a brand new 4iiii 105 left crank for only $240CAD two winters ago! Absolutely mad!

Lower-Mid level road bikes are still crazy expensive. Back in 2018 you could get a name brand full carbon frame, alloy wheels, Shimano 105 for $1500-1800 USD. That same bike today costs $2500-2800. A baseline road bike 5 years ago was $700 for Shimano Claris, aluminum everything, but you will not find that on any name brands selling today for under $1000. Yes, the performance enhancement stuff like power meters, carbon wheels, etc. is much cheaper and better than it used to be, but any newbie to the sport is not looking at any of that stuff. I would be very hesitant to buy anything used after seeing how many of my fellow cyclists treat their bikes.

I liked the video, it is very accurate, if I didn't have an expensive wheelset, I'd use rim breaks, easy reliable, cheap, and the most important problem-free maintenance

Agreed with everything you said, except for electronic shifting. It doesn't give you any benefit, no more speed, or power or ... I don't know. Even more, you can't feel that shift, because you only press the button. I can get Ultegra mechanical for about 70€, 105 Di2 is about 200€? What's the point? Gear cables last me for a few years, until they needs replacing. How long lasts your battery? If I forget to charge my light, radar, computer, power meter, no problem, I can ride my bike.

Been watching a certain power meter pedal's prices and there is a good bulk of them within what I'd say is a bargain price point compared to an MSRP pricepoint on second-hand sites like Ebay for as much as 40% off. Snagged mine and still seeing a couple pop up every week.

Tubeless just does not make sense for road. I had one flat all of last year. Will stick with tubes for a couple flats a year to not have to deal with tubeless.

I knew one korean guy who start road cycling completion with his uncle bike with normal shoes no helmet start from zero. Am sure that he will be champion in Korea competition soon

Curious to hear what wheels you would recommend for rim brakes if a carbon set isn’t the way to go.

How many of you are still on 27” wheels? So many perspectives to choose from: there’s marketing hype, then there’s optimizing your fun and performance, then there’s making do with what ya got, and then there’s being a contrarian retro-grouch just to be a contrarian retro-grouch. Selective ludditism.

Thank you for this. Just recently got into road cycling from being a long distance collegiate runner. And being black, it's been tough to find the ideal info on starting. I've been following you and Williams brothers and others to try to get info on what to buy and what not buy. Thank you again for this

I like the vibe of "you don't need to fall into the marketing push to think that you have to put a lot of money to get fast". It's very noble for a "made guy" on youtube like you to say that out and loud! I'm no where near your level but I came through all that too. When I was a noob I was made to believe too that equipment makes the most of the difference. It's only the fact that pros have that $10000 bike but I don't that differentiated me and the pros, besides that maybe just some training, like maybe 30%. I thought it's like the 100m track, I know I'm no where near that pro, but the gap is not huge right? Pros run 10 seconds, I can make it 13, if I train hard maybe 12 something, it's not that far behind right? I believe that's still a lot of people's thought. Everything changed when I got my power meter. I could say that power meter is the end-all-be-all of the bike game. Without that we could be manipulated even more by the marketing push of bike industry. The power is the only way to make you objectively know where you are and what's between you and the pros. Knowing that the gear only makes marginal effects is just a by product of that process. Long live the power meters!

Arguably TPU tubes are better option for a casual rider because they do not lose air as fast as tubeless setup and the total weight is the same if not lighter. You do not have to pump them before every ride and they rarely puncture.

Sorry @nordcal I agree on the main now it’s the time. But claiming that disc are beter than disc brakes. Braking power is determined by the tyre. When this tyre skids you overreached braking power. But you need metal rims.

SRM wasn’t the only option, there was also the much more affordable Powertap hubs.

HI Thanks for ALL the excellent useful vids. One question, which power meter pedals you using???

Except that racing itself is more expensive than ever and there seems to be no solution on behalf of the promoters to make improvements anytime soon. I regularly see 30-40min 4/5 races that cost $50-60 a pop. So just to get into racing, you’d need anywhere from $1k-$3k depending on races that don’t even include travel expenses and buying kits.

I'm finishing building 4 bikes with Chinese everything, 2600usd per person, deep wheels, electronic shifting, full cable integration, hydraulic brakes, stiff frames, conti gp5000 tyres. The bikes look like they cost 10k each.

just got a gravel bike kinda wanna get into racing or atleast know my power numbers and navigation what things should i get

ANY time is best to get into road cycling)

What size chainring crankset is that? I don't like the Sram Red 56t power meter.

You forgot that you had to change your pads when you were switching carbon and aluminum wheels

With the CRCWiggle shutting down I managed to buy a Vitus road bike with a carbon frame, 105 and hydraulic discs for £500.

I mean yeah what used to be top lvel 5-10 years ago is now a lot cheaper, but i feel like the barrier to entrance is higher if you are young and don´t have 3k to spend. In 2016 bought myself a 5 year old used bike (ultegra mec , no fancy wheels ) for 600€ I fel at least in Germany now you have people trying to sell you there 5 year old used bikes for ~2-3k

Not surprisingly, the people who still live in 1995 would prefer you said downtube shifters, steel frames, rim brakes and 19c's at 130 psi are the best thing to ride. Great video.

You should try living in potholed London, I've gone back to inner tubes. I've had 3 wheels fail this winter, one blew-out the tyre because the glass stuck in the tyre, as i rolled to a stop the air had nowhere to go so blew a hole that couldn't be repaired ( and constantly topping up every month - on 2 sets of wheels has cost £60 in liquid alone this year). Its just a marketing scam to take more money from people.

Doubt this will get any traction, but any level recreation racers up through Cat 2 does not need a power meter or carbon bike or wheels, whatever the brake system. I know I am old school, but having kept up with bike tech from the old days, you can get the first 90 percent through basic training plans and periodization. Once you get to a point when you need smaller gains, the tech, weight, watts, specification all can benefit you. Follow the money

Rim > disc

Tubolito vs Tubeless vid. You're welcome!

Buycycle seems like a great used bike option as well 👍🏻

Want to say something different considering at 72 yrs old. My 1st race bike ran about $900. Used Raleigh Pro(Sl) Dura Ace(later swapped out for Campy. Even tubular Fiamme Red wheelset. Awesome bke(79-81-stolen). Cat 4 on that boy. Those were the Days😊. Love your videos, keep them coming💯👍👊

What headunit is Jeff using at the start of the video?

Some good points here - the problem is that 10yrs ago you had to go to some exotic brand to spend 20k on a bike - now everybody has them…is that because of disc brakes/electric shifting? Yes, power meters have come down and there are more carbon wheel choices…but overall I don’t know that it’s the best time..

It’s a good time to get into cycling in general I haven’t seen deals like this in a while, and we may not ever again. 40 and 50% off from a lot of these bigger names. So much overstock right now

Rim brakes are better for road race Let me know when Zipp makes a rear tt disc wheel that is hookless

1k for hyper wheels every two years is less than disc maintenance. i thought jeff did the numbers but it mustve been someone else. if you always ride in bad conditions go disc but thats the only time it really is beneficial.

I feel like this is really "Now is the best time to be a savvy shopper looking to race road bikes". Somebody just getting into road cycling is going to go to a local bike shop and say hey i want a road bike. And that experience is still pretty expensive, especially from the viewpoint of somebody who isn't looking at things in terms of comparison to the broader sector

"I won Alviso on it" 😂... just ride your damn bike. No to disc brakes. 💯

One month later: NOW IS THE TIME TO BUY the sport is shrinking, the longer you wait the better. Just ride what you have. Comment for the algorithm ❤❤

I agree that disk brakes are best for carbon wheels, but for the reasons you say. I do not feel they are needed for normal road wheels because with disk brakes you immediately exceed the traction of the tire. You just lock up the wheel slides. you still need handling skills.

Could you get the same benefits from a 40 dollar heart rate meter over a 350-400 dollar power meter?

Disagree with the point of training on rimbrake carbon wheels. Built myself a Winspace slc rim brake with they're 38s carbon wheels. Did nearly 15k on them living in high mountain area. They look literally as good as new. You're fine as long you don't ride in heavy rain/ mud etc.

Thats a no on tubless. I might get one flat a year. I got a mini electric pump, and now no more pumping 300 times. Well worth the price

My bike is so old I still have rim breaks. Now disc seems more realistic

Nice video. You can tell the difference between cycling youtubers who actually ride their bikes a lot and have real world advice vs just try and create comment battles with hot takes.

@NorCal Cycling your BH is my current bike

You know the bike industry is in a recession when you see an influx of youtube influencers flooding your feed with videos about the second hand market, rim brake bikes, and bargains.

I recently got into cycling 2 years ago and got an aethos for like 8k lol. Saw some of durianriders videos and I was like ok let me sell this thing off and test for myself because the disk brake was honestly unnecessarily powerful for my dry conditions. Picked up a rim tcr, madone ssl and himod and can safely say I have zero intentions of getting disk unless I move to a super wet area. Also those framesets are just superior to the aethos imo. All 3 nearly the price of 1. Tons of k's and zero wear on my winspace and fulcrum wheels too.... Reckon they'll last me the rest of this decade at this rate haha please people keep buying all the new tech so I get all your old unused stuff on the cheap 🤣 drink that kool-aid. bike industry is working you guys so damn hard, just glad i was only worked once

Disc brake rubbing is annoying as heck to fix. I can fix rim brake rubbing issues on my own, and I’m a newb to both tech because I started cycling a few months ago. Now unless I’m going 28 mph constantly, I don’t really need discs.

How fast the brake track last really. 3-4 years? By that time, we should change the bike really.