Oar Raft Seat Height and Oar Length | Ep. 188
Рет қаралды 20,998
In episode 188, Zach talks about oar raft seat height and oar length. He discusses how seat height affects oar length and position.
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📽️ RELATED VIDEOS:
• Gear Garage Series-kzfaq.info/sun/PLyF7ocMnHgfbDMKBBp6-NxkdyZPBZji8Y
• Choosing the Right Oar Length--kzfaq.info/get/bejne/e72WZNKC19PdeaM.html
• Choosing the Right Frame Width and Oar Length--kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jaqPa9KFqprVaYk.html
@coreymccartney3146 3 жыл бұрын
Zach, first, an absolutely incredible channel I've been fortunate to discover as I transition from kayaking to rafting. Thank you for sharing your experience and wisdom with the rest of us. Two related questions I'd love to hear your thoughts on: On an oar rig/gear boat, how important is it to place the oar towers at dead center of the raft's length? How important is it to make sure the oars cannot possibly hit the passengers riding up front in the event of a bad blade strike? In my 3-bay frame it seems I can't have it both ways.
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
I'm stoked you like the channel! To answer you question I would personally choose safety of the passengers over and increase in maneuverability of the boat. It is not that important to have the oar locks at the center.
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
Did you see the video I made about this?
@coreymccartney3146 3 жыл бұрын
@@GearGarageTV I didn't.
@coreymccartney3146 3 жыл бұрын
Just saw it!
@dougsmith9302 3 жыл бұрын
Great video Zach I've actually gone through this myself. I'm planning on just sitting on my drybox from now on, to get lower, on multi-day trips.
@pvclassic 3 жыл бұрын
I have a dry box I was considering adding a seat to, this saved me the cost of the seat and the cost of longer oars. Thank you.
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
It makes me sooooo happy to have helped!
@pdxalexpbrown 2 жыл бұрын
Nice video. I'm a sit-on-the-tall drybox guy. The box has closed-cell foam on top for padding, and then I strap a "crazy creek" chair to it. You know, one of those folding chairs for outdoor concerts? It doesn't add any height but it gives me back support for the slow water chill out times.
@davidpauli3189 3 жыл бұрын
In addition to the oar issues when sitting up so high there is also the challenge with bracing when dropping in to holes and waves. There are more forces at work that lend itself to getting launched out of your seat.
@njlillegard 3 жыл бұрын
I’m in process of getting a frame now and this is super helpful. Thank you for getting into the weeds of important river topics.
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
I'm glad to hear this helps!
@paulvannoy8872 2 жыл бұрын
I’ve been struggling with my ruling set up I’m gonna check this all out thank you so much
@overthemill 3 жыл бұрын
Great video.. makes a ton of sense. Thanks!
@allancampbell4075 3 жыл бұрын
All of this. Soooo much good info. I’ve changed seats/oar towers/oar length to many times. Wasted money/time/effort. Really appreciate the info Zach. Ive finally settled on sitting right on a thin custom paco pad directly on a low slung dry box (1” off floor) in a 156R. 9.5 Oars.
@thr33b0ys 3 жыл бұрын
Colorado rower here and would love to hear Zach's opinion on clearance issues with boxes and coolers. Obviously, CO doesn't have a lot of big water and dragging over rocks is just part of the game if you row outside of the first week of June. I'm often considering issues like entrapment, raft damage in a pinch, and to this videos point, rower height. I'm 6' 7" and have always tried everything to get as low as possible on the seat height.
@jeff_7771 3 жыл бұрын
Awesome info.
@mikekuczynski1552 Жыл бұрын
Good advice I row both rafts and hard side drift boats and feel what you said is applicable to both . It really does help a lot when you have the opportunity to row a bunch of different setups as far as what is comfortable and efficient . Sometimes I will row with other people in there boats and it amazes me the difference when it’s just not set up right , it becomes work you really don’t need and even loss of control in some circumstances . Thanks for the video
@GearGarageTV Жыл бұрын
Yep I totally agree with what you said about other peoples setups
@MichaelMerrifield 3 жыл бұрын
I simply strap a boat cushion on top of my box and sit on that. The box is not very high to begin with but this approach adds a minimal amount and it's comfortable. As a bonus, I have throwable floatation (with the release of a cam strap buckle).
@sandyradsek2058 3 жыл бұрын
Zac it was briefly mentioned in a comment below. Seat height vs floor drop. I was rowing a e136 and like to sit as low as possible, feels more stable. But the problem I kept running into was hitting my knees when trying to get the oars out of the water. The became more of an issue the bigger the rapids got. I switched to sitting on my dry box or cooler which allowed my knees to be a little lower and this helped. The other option was getting taller oar towers. I’m making the switch to a 156r which will have a lot more floor drop and should definitely make the rowers position more comfortable
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
Yes having bigger tubes certainly helps
@cafishapperson9824 3 жыл бұрын
Great info. That's been a question of mine. I purchased a storm this winter. I wanna put a stern mount on it but was questionable too oar length. Good info.
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
You want to put a stern mount frame on a RMR Storm? That seems like a really small boat for a stern mount frame.
@thryago 3 жыл бұрын
Agree with David Pauli's comment below. I see both rowers and riders with seating postions far above the frame where they are subject to more of a fulcrom effect when the boat gets rocked. I am a firm believer in getting your weight low and reducing the fulcrom effect on a body. I do however compromise and use a tractor seat. It keeps my backside from sliding around and feel it has helped keep me in the boat in some close calls.
@butchbrown8333 5 ай бұрын
I was literally launched out of my "high" seat on the Salmon once. My tractor seat is now on the cross bar. Excellent comment.
@richardweiss6181 3 жыл бұрын
I love these videos. Do you have anything to say about distance of the oar towers fore of the rower? I’ve had to adjust mine when wearing a high profile PFD to keep the handles from hitting my chest, but that can require me to lean too far forward when pushing at the oars.
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
That's a complicated topic. My general thought is to try a few things out and do the one that feels right.
@UrsaMusic 3 жыл бұрын
Damnit. My sweet big ass drybox is too big and i've been in denial about it. I had to shim it up an inch just to keep it off the floor of the raft. I got a large, should have gotten a medium, it's not as wide, but also not as deep. Thanks for the video Zach, I guess I'm sitting right on the box or Paco pad. Using 10' oars on a 14' raft with a DRE frame
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
Yes I would sit right on the box. I've seen a lot of people on DRE frames sitting way too high.
@stephencifka4629 3 жыл бұрын
Great teaching as always. Any info about drift boat setup? Are the goals the same? (maximize push up motion, etc). A McKenzie drift boat has a rowing seat about 8 inches below the oarlocks.
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
I don't know much about drift boats so I should probably not make any reccomnendations
@stephencifka4629 3 жыл бұрын
@@GearGarageTV Thanks! Just this basic information really helps. I've read lots about the oar length "formula" but it makes much more sense to reverse engineer for hand/shoulder position to maximize control and effort. Seat height is usually never addressed, but makes a huge difference. In a drift boat, trim and load placement impact the rocker and ability of the boat to spin and maneuver as well, but just starting with good oar length and hand position makes everything else easier.
@joshpurkiss3965 3 жыл бұрын
Zach - When you say "oar length" are you including the blade in the measurement or just the shaft? Thanks for the great video!
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
Yes the length of the oar includes both the oar and the shaft
@ZTravisty 3 жыл бұрын
Will you do one of these episodes on layering clothes for water temps?
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
Do you mean what to wear under a drysuit?
@ZTravisty 3 жыл бұрын
@@GearGarageTV under a dry suit, over a wet suit. The whole packet
@ZTravisty 3 жыл бұрын
@@GearGarageTV even just a video all about rafting clothing. From shoes and socks up to dry suits
@jimmcgregor4598 7 ай бұрын
Used to just sit on a 2x6, old days.
@dinosnow1 2 жыл бұрын
So Zach are you saying you’re Seat height should be slightly lower than the top of your oar tower. Thanks love the channel🤙
@GearGarageTV 2 жыл бұрын
Yes seat height should be lower than your oar tower. What I'm saying is that you should be sitting low.
@davidroberts5577 3 жыл бұрын
You are spot on! I'd be embarrassed if you seen pics of my first boat and the set up. I've always felt the place I got it from just wanted to sell me shit. Question though: I've never used a seat of any kind, always felt it would limit my range of motion in certain situations. Just wondering what your thoughts are?
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
Yes the core of the problem is retailers selling things they don't use and/or don't know how to use. I only use a seat on day frames when there is no box/cooler to sit on.
@davidroberts5577 3 жыл бұрын
@@GearGarageTV Thanks for the response. Appreciate all you share!
@mikekuczynski1552 3 ай бұрын
Does your formula 1.63 x oarlock distance to determine oar length hold true with drift boats also ?
@GearGarageTV 3 ай бұрын
I’m not sure
@seanfraser7738 3 жыл бұрын
Hi Zach. What's your take on oar length for the Canyon, in an 18 ft boat? An NRS 180 is 8'4" wide. If I have my oar locks 96 inches apart, times 1.63, that equals 13 ft! Seems good by the numbers, but I don't hear of many oars longer than 11 ft out there. Thoughts? Thanks.
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
I generally use 11' oars with standard 18' rafts. I suggest trying to reduce the distance between the oar locks. On 18' rafts I don't run the oar locks as wide as the raft.
@gkaplan555 Жыл бұрын
@@GearGarageTV and @Sean Fraser, a couple years late, I realize...but just now reaching a point where I'm actually doing some research. Previously just relied on good 'ole guide ego (i.e. I used to guide so...) :) We did the Canyon 2 years ago and I aptly earned the nickname "OarCrusher". I snapped 5 oars!!!! Got a little spicy as we started going through the groups spares, etc. I literally was able to just "pull" through an oar! Yes, I had a heavy boat--but I used to row 2-3x heavier with no issue. I kept blaming it on old-ass oars but then started playing around with oar-tower angle and fine-tuning oar-stop distance etc. Seems on an 18' boat I was thinking the same thing and ended up positioning my towers almost straight versus splayed out a bit...turned into too acute of an angle and snap! ??? Maybe??? Now I'm super concerned and take extra time to tweak tweak tweak. But I'm always careful not to bring my towers too close together. Thanks so muck Zach. I love it and love all your spot on information. After this next trip, I'm planning on donating a little something something for your great efforts. Muchas Gracias.
@spencerwiard4769 Жыл бұрын
I have a 12’ raft with 54” distance between the oarlocks and 8’ oars. Based on your 1.63 calculation, my oars should be 7’3” but that seems very short. Any thoughts on the best oar length for my setup? I only use my raft for small rivers and tribs in Michigan so I don’t go through rapids.
@GearGarageTV Жыл бұрын
My best guess is that 8' oars are perfect
@spencerwiard4769 Жыл бұрын
@@GearGarageTV awesome, thanks!
@thenobleist9262 3 жыл бұрын
I’m curious about body proportions and seat/oarlock positioning. I’m sitting really far back and about 4” high to accommodate my legs, but then that sets me up so I have to use my torso so much to get leverage on the oars. Granted it was set up for someone about a foot shorter than me, and I’m mostly torso and arms anyway... any tips for gangly folks? 😂
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
It's hard to give you advice without seeing your setup. I would suggest following the advice in this video.
@thenobleist9262 3 жыл бұрын
@@GearGarageTV thank you! Your videos are an amazing resource!
@davidwaclo Жыл бұрын
I feel like theres a problem between sitting low and having tge oars at your chest. Ive doe the 1.6 thing but the oars end up high when I have a seat in the frame. If I move the oar mounts in then I have too much oar outside the mounts and theyre heavy.
@GearGarageTV Жыл бұрын
Are your oar towers too tall?
@davidwaclo Жыл бұрын
@@GearGarageTV they are the smaller standard nrs towers. My towers are about 80” apart so 1.6x = 128”. My oars are 10 ft. So that means You’re saying I should have a little smaller frame - which I should, because the frame is outside the center line of the tubes. Ok, but still the oars feel high so I need to sit on my cooler at 8” so the oars are at my chest. I have them at 80” outside the oarlock, so 2/3 exactly. Do you think I need shorter towers? Thank you, btw! Appreciate the help
@alvaroarnal6 3 жыл бұрын
On the blade end of the of the oar how far, ideally, should the blade be in the water with an ideal oar length? Blade *just* completely submerged? Or is it better to have the blade a few inches under water (in flat water) to account for better engagement in whitewater when the water surface can be closer or further from level? I'd love to hear your thoughts Zach.
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
It makes sense to me that you'd want the blade fully submerged when you are rowing at your most powerful position. So when the hands are out in front of you just below shoulder length (like doing a push-up) the blades should be fully submerged. I'm not sure why you need any blade out of the water.
@alvaroarnal6 3 жыл бұрын
@@GearGarageTV Agreed that no blade should be out of the water, but how deep should it be? Does it make sense that the blade should be a few inches below the water when rowing flatwater so that in whitewater there's less of a chance of taking an air stroke?
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
@@alvaroarnal6 I'm not sure. I base my oar length on the distance between oar locks and that usually works fine.
@Leviwilner1 Жыл бұрын
Damn. Just set up a riser chair and i was like woah, gonna get bucket for sure. Total waste of money damn
@richardservatius5405 3 жыл бұрын
i'm 72 and have arthritus in my left shoulder. i'm considering using a 9' oar on the left and a 9.5' oar on the right. my spare oar will be 9' also. comments???
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
Sounds like a smart solution
@dennis6325 Жыл бұрын
Why not include the seat height in your oar length calculation? What angle relative to the water surface are you shooting for?
@GearGarageTV Жыл бұрын
I don't include seat height for 2 reasons: 1. The distance between oar locks is by far the biggest factor and dwarfs seat height 2. I would encourage you to sit low and by adding seat height it might give people the idea that sitting high is okay
@UrsaMusic 3 жыл бұрын
Zach what would you say is an appropriate elevated butt height above the boat? 6"?
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
I would try to keep it below 4" but it also depends on your torso. A lot of people try to compensate their high seat with longer oar towers but that creates more problems.
@UrsaMusic 3 жыл бұрын
@@GearGarageTV what do you mean by "depends on your torso"
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
@@UrsaMusic The distance between your butt and your chest plays a minor role
@richardservatius5405 3 жыл бұрын
i like to stand up to view the next rapid for a few seconds and am considering a wooden floor above my inflated floor a few inches, comments???
@GearGarageTV 3 жыл бұрын
Sure our you can just stand on your inflated floor
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