Yes there is a certain amount of design work in planning and fixturing for machine jobs. It can make all the difference in how the job runs.

@@EdgePrecision Not having seen the Video for the fixture, how did you calculate the COG for the set up?, do you have a balancing machine?. I know that CAD will give you a mass figure for the part and the fixture, but in my experience, unless you get that correct, the imbalance can cause a huge issue, in fact it could shake your machine to bits. lol

1ginner1 I always run this setup in the machines low range. The max RPM in low is 460 rpm. At that speed there is not a balance issue. But most of the turning part is below that so vibration is not a problem. In fact even at the 460 RPM max I can’t feel any significant vibration. I did use the cad just kept trimming and adding material until I got the center of gravity at the center of rotation. I know that’s not perfect balance but it’s close enough for this.

@@EdgePrecision Yep, I have the fortune of having both manual and CNC experience and in the old days we just used to keep adding or subtracting washers or whatever was handy to enable the set-up to work. Really enjoying the Videos, keep up the good work.

Gilbert, Thanks! The reason for the fixture is because I don't own a 30" 4-Jaw chuck that would be required to run this. But more than that I don't like running this big a part this much off center (About 200 Lbs. off center weight according to my cad software). In the program I have limited the speed to 500 RPM. This fixture runs with no vibration at that speed (I think it could go higher but its not necessary). The part is also firmly bolted into the fixture and can't come out.

I think the way you are doing it is best. I wouldn't use a 4 jaw if I were doing it. I noticed the counter weight. And the adjustment screws. And the strap slot. And the capture bolts. And, and, and.... You always see the bigger picture and all the conflicts. A video about the design and the fixture build would have been interesting as well. Maybe even more so. See ya soon buddy!

I agree. Going through the fixture and the design thinking would be very interesting.

@@TexasHunter59 I second that, this fixture is amazing, I've learned so much just by looking at it.

One of the finest machinists out there is putting it mildly! If I had to use a label , I would say something like "Master Instrument Maker" but even that does not cover CAD/CAM/Designer. Best I've ever seen after being a prototyping machinist/ for 30+ years.

CarltonDry.Please sorry I didn't reply earlier I like to reply to every positive comment if possible. So thanks I appreciate your kind remarks.

Thanks Dennis glad you liked it.

omergnl Thanks glad you liked it! This machine is a e650 the numbers in the Integrex names usually refer to the Y axis travel. In my case 650MM. This part according to my cad software has about 200 lbs. of off center weight. The fixture balances that. In low range this machine runs up to 500 RPM. It does that with no noticeable vibration.

Distanf2, Awesome!! Thanks!

Mazatrol is able to do that as well. That said though I don’t use it hardly at all. I prefer to use cam software.

I have modified my post to do it. If I set custom setting 2 on the tool to 1. The program will feed from the clearance plane to the R position of the drilling cycle. Than turn the coolant and spindle on there. Than execute the drilling cycle. Than when it finishes drilling turn off the spindle and coolant at the R plane. Rapid to the clearance plane. So you set the start level (R) in the start hole. This all is automatic in the post with the tools custom setting #2 set to 1.

It would be possible, but much more difficult. There are angles and undercut areas all with 32 finishes and close tolerances. Plus a ID thread. It would take many tools. As I said it is possible but this worked better. Also I had many parts so it was worth the effort for the fixture.

@@EdgePrecision Again beautiful work! Thanks for your reply.

Thanks glad you liked it. The reasons are. The bore gets larger inside past the thread and all the surfaces have to have a minimum of a 32 finish. Some with +- .001 tolerance. (This would be difficult without a U axis boring head on the horizontal mill. A attachment I don't have). Also I could drill the 1.313 dia. hole that intersects the bore after the lathe work (To avoid the intermittent cut on the lathe tools) .

Yes it does. I drew up the fixture in cad and placed the part model in position. On the cad software it shows the center of gravity. I kept adding and trimming the fixture until the center of gravity matched the spindle centerline. It runs smooth up to the maximum RPM I run of 500 RPM. thanks for the comment.

That setup is truly amazing. I have machined parts off center but the one on this video looks pretty heavy and I don't see any vibration on the machine itself, that tells me the kind of balancing job you did on your fixture. Congratulations.

@@EdgePrecision peter you are a hell of a machinist great content and I love the infos that are on this comment reply please make more videos about fixturing and share and all the infos that you have no one will ever refuse awesome stuff keep going

I had the speed limited to 500 Rpm max for this program on the turning spindle. The tool magazine on this machine holds 80 tools.

The thing with this model of Integrex (e650H) is you can only go to X-.0393 or X-10MM. What that does is limit how far down you can get with a larger boring bar(This is not a problem with some of the newer models). That limitation is not so bad for milling but for turning it makes things more difficult. For facing you can of course index a boring bar to face down but if you are in a bore with say a 3.15" or Capto 80 size bar you can only reach down to about 3.75 in diameter. Than you have to switch to a smaller bar and than a smaller bar. It is easer just to mill some features then to drill and bore especially if you have a flat bottom. It works good to bore jaws, mill out most of the material with a feed mill than to finish with a boring bar because of the intermittent cut. The milling spindle on this Integrex has good power (50 Hp.)and RPM (10,000). On a lathe with milling on the turret this might not be the best way to go because of the limitations of the milling spindles. As to the rapid feed rates yes I am running them a 50% in the videos when the machine is running at 100% rapid for a tool change all those back sheet metal way covers slam home and it make me worry about them. The machine does it OK but for the type of work I do there is not really much advantage to running at full rapid (1600 inches per minute). I do sometimes run a tool like a feedmill that's making a lot of rapid clearance moves at 100% because of the nature of the cut and that does save a lot of time.

Thank you for the great answer! I was not aware of that X-axis limitation on that Integrex, now I understand why you're doing it the way you are now. You also gave me a good idea: Next time I am boring soft jaws I will definitely mill them first, and then just skim the last 0,3mm with the boring bar. I run my rapids at 50% too. I don't like how I can feel the whole machine moving if I run 100%.

@@Panzax1 Extremely late to this party, but if you can feel the machine move when it does a rapid then maybe it is not leveled properly? Or your acceleration parameters are set too high.

I bought the machine used from a mining equipment company in Milwaukie and had it moved to Houston. I am more familiar with the Mazak than the other brands. It is very hard to find one of these used at a decent price. I wont deal with Mori Seki because of the way they screwed me out of a warranty on a some Hitachi Seki machines after they bought the company.

I did have something in mind that has to do with machine maintenance. But it will have to wait till I have to do this particular thing for the machine. In this case I am not particularity looking forward to it.

When I drew the fixture assembly in cad. I assigned a material to each part. Than I took the model of the part and placed it in the fixture an assigned the proper material type to it. The cad software has the ability to calculate the center of the mass of all the parts together. I just adjusted the size of the counter weight until the center of the mass coincided with the center of rotation as close as possible. Now in the machining process I never have the machine out of low range. The max RPM in low is 460 RPM. The program limits the speed to 500. At that speed everything runs smooth enough to cause no problem. It is close enough not perfect but good enough.

Cool! something like this I thought, and in what program did you calculate all this? Is the clamping device mounted directly on the spindle taper?

The software I used was SpaceClaim. There is a chuck adapter plate bolted to the A-11 spindle taper. Than the back plate of the spindle bolts to that.

Mārtiņš Zinbergs thanks I'm glad you liked it. I thought I had sent a reply when you sent this but I guess it didn't take. I don't have a 4-jaw for this machine large enough for this part so I made the fixture. It holds the part more securely and doesn't leave chuck jaw marks in the part.

Wing Wu The software I use is SpaceClaim. All I did was model the fixture and part. Than added or subtracted material to the fixture until I got the center of gravity as close to the center of the spindle centerline as possible. You could probably do this in any software. It's not really balanced but it's close enough for this purpose. I ran the whole program in low range. The maximum speed in low is 460 RPM. It ran smooth enough at that speed.

Yes the machine was set at 50% because the camera stuck to the B axis with a Noga base would fall off. This machine will rapid at 1200" a minute. When you run a program for the first time you would never catch a mistake at that speed. Also it is a very powerful machine it can do a lot of damage. Turning spindle 60 hp milling spindle 50 hp 10,000 rpm.

Bill, I would like to say I'm that good with the level but it was just luck. Did you notice how the part was .0005 low in the middle? I squared the blocks before drilling that big hole. People even experienced people don't take into account stress in material when machining. That was caused by drilling that hole even that far away from the edge. The gage is a customer gage. Now days in the machining business it's all about quality control. Every thing has to be calibrated and certified. If your not prepared to do that it will limit your customers ability to deal with you. I see people on KZfaq doing things and they say that's good enough. Some times I wish I could just say that but it very seldom works that way. I don't have that luxury things have to be in tolerance or you have to have a corrective action report and a engineering deviation request filled out. What a pain. So you learn check double check don't take anything for granted. Wow am I going on I need to shut up now.

+Peter, I noticed that when you were tramming the part. But, I mis-read the direction and thought it was high in the middle. I couldn't figure out why it would be high, I'm glad you clarified that. Although I would not have even thought on that scale you would have been able to measure anything. I hear you on the the specs, I used to work in aerospace, and was involved in testing. Fortunately for me, I was doing R&D which is a bit different than the production testing done on flight hardware. That is more like what you describe, and yes what a pain somteimes....

+Bill De La Vega that Interapid indicator reads .0005" per division. By the way I have tried many different test indicators and prefer the Interapid for its high sensitivity and low stylus pressure. They are a little costly though.

I'm not really sure what this part does. I think is some kind of high pressure manifold. Its called on the drawing "CROSS, 4-WAY, API 2-9/16". I bet that sheds a lot of light on its application. Go figure, one of them cross things. As a machinist you don't usually know what the parts you make do. You just get paid to machine not engineer.

Cool! Google dug up some examples, seems like it's for wells (presumably oil). Very neat, thanks for the great vids!

Ok read some more comments and you did. Am in awe.

No but it is a Oilfield part.

This bore detail has a angles and undercuts that blend to each other with radi all with 32 finishes and close tolerances. Also a thread at the front of the bore. Now this wouldn’t be impossible on a vertical mill it would be much more difficult than in the lathe. This part has features on every side and is first on the horizontal mill for two operations. Than on the Mazak for the last operation. I have run this job a number of times. It was well worth the trouble to make this fixture. Also there is absolutely no risk in thus operation. The part is held on the fixture with two 1” bolts and a 1.50” cross pin. It can’t come out of the fixture. Much more secure than a chuck.

EIA I very seldom run a Mazatrol program. For lathe I don't mind Mazatrol but for milling I prefer EIA. I can tell what I am doing better in the cam software.

Edge Precision good i am more an eia person too. Good video keep it up

Yes I see all comments. Thanks!

The fixture is somewhat balanced. You see the mass opposite the part? I drew that in cad and keep trimming away until the center of gravity was on the center of rotation. Its not perfect but close enough.

The newer e670H Mazak would run about $950,000.00 to $1,200,00.00 depending on the options you get.

@@EdgePrecision thank you Master Jedi Peter

Derrick Klossner You are right it is possible. But the bore has tapers leading into radi all with 32 finishes and +- .001. It would take many more tools and more time on the mill to do the same thing. It only takes 3 different boring bars and one threading bar on the lathe.

Edge Precision I think it is cool. I like opinions. I work at a shop just starting into aerospace. the challenge of our shop is finding the correct machine to run a part on. there is just so many ways to make the same part.

Wow...no counter weight needed. Is this Integrex?

I don’t like using this indicator for checking things like runout. I prefer a dial indicator for that.

@@EdgePrecision Making molds with 0.010 mm tolerance, we also use de indicator to center/straighten pieces and the 3d for Z only!

The machine is a E650H

this E650H is similar to a J 200?? same kind??

Yes we also have a I-400 here the number usually refers to the Y axis travel so in my case the Y travel is 650 MM.

In this video I just check the face run out to see what it was. The fixture controls that, if the part is machined square (which they were) the run out will be minimal. Well within the drawings tolerance. I just check it as a force of habit, just to see. there is no adjustment for this in the fixture. I don't know if you noticed in the video. I squared up the blocks before I roughed drilled the hole on the mill. Than on the lathe. When I ran the indicator across the top of the part to set the C zero. Did you notice the deviation from stress relieved when drilling the large hole in the face of the block?

A e650H model.

Thanks. As usual you have created an exceptional video. Thank you your willingness to take time to share this.

Otto I'm not quite sure what you mean? The reason I made this fixture was #1 I don't own a 4 jaw large enough for this part. #2 the first time I ran this job I did 44 parts and have run it two times more. With this fixture it takes very little time to indicate the parts in.#3 The fixture balances the parts. #4 With this fixture it is safer because it is impossible for the part to come out of it. There is also less overhang on the spindle with it. So yes it does seem a little more complicated but in this case it was worth it.

I’m not sure. I made this video a long time ago. I will have to go back and review it. It wouldn’t be the first or the last time I’ve run into a camera in a machine.

The part can't come out of the fixture. There are two 1"-8 bolts holding it and a pin clamping it to the face. You can see them as I put the part on it. I would worry more if I was doing this in a four jaw chuck.

Edge Precision i really admire your professional knowledge and confidence. i don't know how you calculated the centrefugal force ,wich can be enourmous. once, i forgot a dial indicator attached to the spindle (total stupidity) and ran the spindle, the indicator flew of as a bullet, shattering the machine window. also, can't you damage your machine by spinning a large, off cencter part? can't it damage spindle bearings and balance? thanks for your video and answer

Fischer977 thanks! Yes it can if you let it go for to long. Usually you would stop it before it damages the bearings. What will damage spindles more often is a instant shock like rapiding into something. I have also seen a high pressure coolant gland fail and flow coolant thru the spindle bearings ruining them. The way I determined balance was in the cad software I modeled the part and fixture. Than assigned their material properties. Than added or subtracted from the fixture till the center of gravity was as close to the spindles centerline as I could get it. I limited the program to a maximum of 500 RPM. At that speed there is very little vibration.

Edge Precision did you use any analysis cad modules? how did you determine the number 500 rpm?

Actually I left the machine in low range for the program. The maximum rpm is 490 in low range. No software, I just tried it once it was in the machine. It ran smooth enough at the low ranges max rpm so that was good enough.

Je ne sais pas exactement à quoi vous faites référence dans cette vidéo. Voulez-vous connaître la quantité de liquide de refroidissement utilisée ? Si tel est le cas, lors de l'usinage de métaux, il est nécessaire d'utiliser du liquide de refroidissement pour éliminer les copeaux et garder l'outil au frais afin qu'il ne perde pas son tranchant. Pitulaire pour une perceuse à canon car c'est un outil à une seule flûte avec une flûte droite. Il faut donc beaucoup de liquide de refroidissement à haute pression pour forcer les copeaux à sortir du trou.