D8568 first went to the North Yorkshire Moors Railway. The horn had a haunting echo in the Newtondale valley. I remember it in the full 'Ribble Cement' livery & being less than clean. Apparently the works manager at Ribble Cement was aware he had a sole survivor & had no intention of allowing it to go for scrap.

We had these at Tyne yard, we loved them on local goods, they were a fitters nightmare. Always a comfortable and draught free loco.

Are you sure they had train heating boilers? For one summer season in the mid 1960s the <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="970">16:10</a> stopping train from Edinburgh Waverley to Hawick was regularly hauled by a Clayton diesel (not yet designated Class 17) but in the winter the train reverted to steam haulage by B1s. I (a schoolboy at the time) assumed this was due to the absence of a train heating boiler. I also can't see how the fireman/secondman could have attended such to such a boiler with the "bonnet" design. The need for the secondman to attend to the boiler was the reason why loco-hauled passenger trains had to be double-manned when I worked on the railway in the 1970s. Due to their short working life, I was only once on the footplate of a Class 17, when I had to pass on a message to a Millerhill driver in Cadder Yard. (The engine was about to work a train back to Millerhill.) I was struck then by the cab seats facing in opposite directions. I was told that this was because this was because the locomotives were designed for single manning. Presumably, with such good all-round visibility, it was felt there was no need for a secondman when working a train. By that way of thinking, a secondman would only be necessary when running light on the main line between the engine sheds and the yard where the train started/finished. Presumably the management thought it didn't matter in these circumstances that the secondman (who would often be a guard acting as secondman) was facing in the wrong direction! Personally I think they should have had two seats facing in each direction; there was certainly room for four seats in that large cab. But management were always looking for ways to save money, and in the 1960s they were trying to force single-manning on a workforce that didn't want it. It would certainly be easier for the driver to change driving positions than in a double-cabbed locomotive, but it wouldn't be possible when the locomotive was moving. If you've ever gone through the engine room of a Class 47 when it was working a train, you'll know what I mean. Or indeed any diesel when it was working hard uphill! Unlike a lot of people, I was sorry to see these quite distinctive locomotives go. I felt that the good visibility made them ideally suited for the sort of local freight trains where more time was spent shunting, than actually hauling trains on the main line. From about 1972 I was working as a goods guard, working many such trains, mainly with double-cabbed locomotives of classes 27, 26, 24 and 25 (and sometimes an English Electric Class 20). I sometimes thought it would have been easier for the driver and I too see each other had we had a Class 17. I think the real reason for their rapid withdrawal was the enormous loss of freight traffic in the late '60s / early '70s, when the freight management simply threw in the towel in the face of competition from road hauliers. Had BR been committed to retaining this traffic, then solutions to the operating problems of the Claytons could surely have been found. But, with the traffic they had been built to work largely lost, it was cheaper just to scrap them. It was depressing working of the freight side of the railways in the 1970s. Most of the depots I worked trains to and from are now closed. By restricting itself to block trainload traffic, the railway tied itself to heavy industry, failing to foresee how quickly heavy industry itself would decline. I personally think the biggest loss was the premature closure of the modern computerised hump marshalling yards built in the 1960s. I think they could and should have provided the backbone of British freight transport well into the 21st century.

I recall the attempt to 'fix' the Class using RollsRoyce engines led to an appearance on BBC Tomorrow's World in the days of Raymond Baxter and James Burke.

Pity the Class 17 was so terrible. You can’t help but feel pity for the failed diesel classes of British Railways.

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="294">4:54</a> the class 17 had neither steam heat or ETH. They did however have a through steam pipe. Also, they had Paxman engines, not Paxton.

An interesting video. I went to school very near the Hemelite works, so I saw this loco quite a few times plodding around. Many years later it was nice to be hauled by her.

I remember them well. They ran on a line in the north of Edinburgh, which was at the back of my house. My neighbour drove them. He referred to them as "900 Claytons". I wonder if that was a reference to brake horse power ?. Happy days.

Small centre-cab classes are almost ubiquitous among the railways of the world. However there were certain British companies who should never have been let near design and construction of non-steam locomotives. Clayton and North British spring to mind.

Well Done for including Derek, the diesel from Thomas. You avoided the major oversight there. Well done.

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="260">4:20</a> I wonder if this photo was taken at Ardrossan shed. I took a similar photo back in the early 70s when the last members of the class were being stored there. As a lover of steam, I used to hate seeing them pour out their thick smoke in Fife during the 60s but by the 70s I was feeling sorry that we were losing the mix of designs as standardisation began to take over. Thankfully, one of them has been preserved and probably runs in better condition than it ever did under BR. One my uncles was a driver at Dunfermline shed (62C) and I actually got to visit the cab of one of them. Never travelled in one of them though I did get to drive a Class 37 from Alloa to Dunfermline one evening when I was supposed to be revising for a French test the next day.

I recall seeing D8509 on a test train through Millers Dale station on the now closed line to Matlock from Buxton, back in 1962.

Picture credit at 3.55 is Bruce McCartney, the train pictured is at Galashiels.

I have got a fascination and liking for all the unreliable classes. 14 15 16 17 21 23 28 29 41 43.

Interesting and quite good looking engine. Real pity it failed in service. In Germany on the other hand we had (have) with the class V100 a mid cab design that was hugely successful, starting service in 1958 (over 750 build) and being decommisioned by the Bundesbahn only in 2004. Many of them are now still in service with private companies - and will reach surely service life of over 70 years. Similar engine design was built by the east german Reichsbahn in vast numbers too.

Nice looking loco. Used to see them on the main line hauling product from Jarrow Steel works. Shame they were unsuccessful.

Great video, the class used to haul freight over the Waverley route

Excellent video I can't believe I'm only just now discovering this channel

I was invited onto the footplate of D8568 at Grosmont works on the NYMR, on 26th April 1986, the day of the Chernobyl disaster. The engineers there had recently worked out the reason for the unreliability of the Paxman engines, being a lack of oil pressure which they cured temporarily by mounting a huge oil barrel above one bonnet to help boost the pressure of the oil-feed by gravity! Thirty-eight years later, I have again found myself in the spacious cab of D8568, now fully restored and working very nicely on the Great Central Railway. Well done, all who thought it worthwhile to save and restore this oddly- interesting loco.

Another topper of a video!

My dad did a training course on them as a fitter. Some were shedded at Leith Central in Edinburgh.

this is the first video i got recommended by you and i really liked it, thank you

I can't help but feel bad for the Class 17's, I also like how their designed, despite their troubles.

I remember these locomotives in their afterlife at Hemelite, and went on an enthusiast trip from their Cupid Green base to the outskirts of Harpenden and back. There were actually two Hemelite locomotives although one failed early on and then became a spares donor.

Thank you for an interesting video on a short lived loco , even the unsuccessful loco's are all part of the rich tapestry of our railway history.

I love this unusual loco and my n gauge model runs superbly and gets a lot of use on my layout.

@<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="172">2:52</a> south bound train on the Waverley Route, Lady Vic pit box on left, entrance to pit on right

Very interesting and very enjoyable, was considering buying one for my N gauge layout.

In about 1975, there was a long line of these at Polmadie- and another load of them at St.Rollox Works. And D8539 was ever-present at Eastfield.

Just beautiful

We had quite a few on Shed in 66B Motherwell

Ironically the Scottish Region had just sorted out the reliability problems when they were being withdrawn I believe it was the shed master at Polmadie who questioned the decision to withdraw them early

ALCo, in North America, also had a centre cab; not a great seller either.

I rode behind D8568 on the Severn Valley Railway last year (she's now based there rather than at Chinnor). She's a funny little thing, in my opinion her engine sounded like it was from a railbus. Thankfully, she didn't fail!

You keep showing a photograph of Class 17 D8589 crossing the River Wear bridge at Monkwearmouth. This was taken by Brian Stephenson on 6th July 1970 and was featured on the cover of MLI no. 186.

The unique Clayton Type 3 (a totally different animal), also features in the photographs.

Interestingly, this center cab setup seems to be a common design in Japan, such as the DD51 and DE10, though it seems those were diesel-hydraulic.

Would like the clarify that the Clayton isn’t owned by the chinnor railway but a private group called the diesel traction group, located at the Severn Valley Railway

Interesting looking loco.

To be regarded as probably the worst BR diesel ever is very impressive when looking at how bad the competition was 😂😂

I think they were an interesting design. I have a very vague memory of seeing one in action in Glasgow in the mid 60s. I think I can also remember the single 17 that was stabled at Longsight in the early 70s. There is footage of it moving in green at the end of this video. I think the Longsight loco was used as a power source or static coach heater? These were duties also assigned to the few remaining class 15/16s and I Think Chester and Lime Street had one each?

I love the class 17 it is a perfect engine in my eyes

Well done! Thank you. Robert. USA

These were tried on the steeply graded Consett branch in County Durham from Tyne Dock shed after the mighty 9F's were withdrawn in 1966, they failed miserably with the 900 ton iron ore trains, as did other diesels to be fair before double headed class 37's came to the rescue...

In the late 40’s through the 50’s into the early 60's the EJ&E relied on the 2000 HP Baldwin center-cab transfer locomotives as the mainstay of the locomotive fleet. Big monsters with high hoods I would see them every day as I lived a short bike ride from the EJ&E and SOO line transfer yard in what is now Vernon Hills Illinois area. 2 x 1000 HP Engines. Last units with other railroads lasted into the 1990's.

Re train heating. at <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="228">3:48</a> the general arrangement diagram of the cab shows where the steam heat boiler would be located, if fitted. #37 It would be the task of the secondman to oversee the operation of said heating.

A regular on the Waverley track recovery trains, drivers always used to wave as they passed under the Bonnyrigg Rd bridge when I was very young. Then the track came back over 30 yrs later!

I liked the Class 17 they were not too common in the North East, but 66A had many stabled on the MPD.

I'm no rail expert, but it seems a crazy solution to address a visibilty issue by having one central cab and two engines, restricting the allowable height of each engine, rather the one engine and two cabs (one at each end), which is much more common.

For a Diesel it was quite good looking.

I don't know why, but there's something I like about center cab diesels and electrics.

Not paged down all comments but noted the Cuban version of the class 47 can be seen in build too

Nice I’ve subed

The one initially allocated to Barrow Hill used to leak exhaust into the cab, a problem that couldn't be over come at the depot. ( This from a former neighbour who was second man on it ) I don't know if this was a common fault .

There is a shot of the very rare hydraulic Clayton DHP1 in the footage. The 17s were a tragedy rather than a disaster; all the problems were fixable, not least the use of a Rolls Royce engine used in 2 of the Beyer Peacock batch. Alas the traffic they were designed for was disappearing, as rail freights market share collapsed in the 1960s, which also meant the demise of the class 14s too, along with all those white elephant marshalling yards. Shame.

@<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="238">3:58</a> north bound demolition train(?) passing through Galashiels, grey and white building is the only thing in this picture remaining....

Love the "But the replacement motors were worse than what they replaced" line he said. Sounds typically British. :) I'm in America, where Baldwin and General Electric both built center-cab locomotives; the GE 44-tonner (~39 metric tonnes) is famous, as are the Pennsylvania Railroad's GG-1 center-cab electric locomotives.

@<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="115">1:55</a> south bound train just north of Beattock Station, Moffat branch off to the right.

Strange thing. They could looked over to Germany, they had the Class V100. And this one was a success.

So conceptually similar to the 1950s Deutche Bahn V100 which remained in service for 40 years, yet so incredibly unsuccessful.

The Class 17 locomotives were originally designed as pick up locomotives, not for heavy freight hauling locomotives

So what was the problem with the centrecab? German railways have hundreds of centrecab locos of different classes on the network, which have worked for decades perfectly well. There's the Class 211 and 212 B-B and the 260 and 261 C locos for instance.

Great video. Just to clarify the preserved Clayton is owned by the diesel traction group and is based at the Severn valley railway not the princess Risborough and chinnor railway

I like class 17 they look nice l remember them at Barrow Hill D 8607 1966

the 17s remind me of SM42s in terms of looks of course, the SM42s were a massive succsess, they are still in service to this day

It's pretty !

There’s still one in the steel works in Scunthorpe

I live up the road from Hatton. Didn't know the 17s came from there

Looks so good though

This and co-bo are my favorite British diesels

At <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="98">01:38</a> are those the Cuban 47-alikes under construction?

Clayton also built a version that possessed hydraulic transmission!

Particularly enjoyed the N08 headcode 😂😂

1.37 Anyone know what those class 47-shape locomotives are under construction in the background? Clearly an export order...

A grand effort

I think the West Somerset Railway has one of these.

Its German counterpart, the V100, became a classic.

I may prefer Steam most of the time, but I take pity on this class of diesel, yes mainly because of Derek. Lol 😂

Cool looking loco, pity it flopped ☹

At <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="67">1:07</a>, that ain't a Class 17; that's DHP1!

I worked on these locos on the maintenance side all the time they were in the North east, there's to many errors in this video to write down.. I know the drivers i dealt with loved them when they worked okay

Always reminds me of many of the Continental centre cab diesels like the German V100; most of which were (are!) still successful.

What do they sound like?

As a kid seeing them pass for a short period, usually in pairs, that there could be a grand piano in the cab!

I saw the sole surviving class 17 at Swanage last year

Fortunately as a railway modeller it just has to look. Good video. I had been watching another diesel type video series by someone who shows photographs and then blots out his photos using text. Presumably he lacks the confidence to speak. Your format far better.

Got aboard some at Gateshead shed where my dad was based. Weird contraption

Another class which probably should never have been built, similar to the D9500s. Difficult to understand the need to construct that many, I wonder who signed the cheque(s)!

Not withstanding that, ‘beauty is in the eyes of the beholder’, this particular beholder thinks they’re bloody ugly and altogether a daft idea from the outset. Enjoyed the video, though.

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="322">5:22</a> I'm sure that some of Classes 14, 21, 22 and 29 had shorter lives.

Sorry, but on all mainline locomotives there is a zone directly ahead of the locomotive were nothing can be seen from the driver's seat.

Steam heating?? I understood boilers were never fitted. They would have been in the centre of the cab. I remember, with affection, tripe-headed 17s hauling mineral trains from the Edinburgh suburban line onto the Caley main line- what noise!

This body shape has been pretty much used in European locos both mainline and yards. One major central cab and seats for both directions for two engineers. Typically the body has only one main diesel and auxiliary engine on the other end. Therefore they are not necessary symmetrical and the other end is longer. Those have typically hydraulic transmission like in <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="64">1:04</a> drawing.

¿Qué pasó con la british class 17 de Nacionales de México y porque no se contrató?

Having 2 engines they always had a limp home mode, but even then they were so bad that in the end they had to run two loco's together in case 2 engines gave up! But having some traction from the preserved example I can say that there is nothing wrong with the sound however.

reminds me of a DB V-100

Think the Metro Vickers CoBo might just be even worse, used to see Clayton’s around Teesside….

I'd hate to try driving that 4D75!

Class 17 lookline Japanese Dd51 diesel locomotive.

Surely took its inspiration from a rather more successful class of locos from the late 1800's - the Ffestiniog Railway Fairlies!!