Can the active balancer save this battery? Impressive result!

Рет қаралды 66,815

3 жыл бұрын

I always said I won't install an active balancer on my battery, so this is just a test, right?! It's a test! 😊This morning, the battery was at 12%SoC and very out of balance and I was wondering what would happen if we install the active balancer from Hankzor. Can it balance out these high capacity cells and save the battery from been disconnected by the BMS?
It's a test, right?
Hankzor active balancer:
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Пікірлер: 465

@guy7gsa 3 жыл бұрын

We have completed our mission and convertered the Anti-Balancer. 😂😂😂

@bentleyjarrard885 3 жыл бұрын

M P, Ya, I did my part and suggested an active balancer several times on this and other channels.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Hahahaha, yeah im' really impressed so far. I'm going to wait until the battery is full though to see if it can hold up the positive start.

@guy7gsa 3 жыл бұрын

Can the active balancer setting be changed on the bms/active balancer hybrid interesting. So you could choose to have them balance on top or bottom only.

@bentleyjarrard885 3 жыл бұрын

@@guy7gsa Unfortunately the Bluetooth balancer does not have Top or Bottom balance settings. The user can set the balance current from 0.2A up to the max which is 1, 2, 5, or 10A depending on the model as well as the Delta trigger voltage between cells from 0.001V to about 0.500V (1mv to 500mv). Cell balancing can also be turned off completely and the unit will only display cell voltages and internal resistance values.

@SkypowerwithKarl 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I’m part of the pestering people too.📣

@justdoityourself7134 3 жыл бұрын

I bought an active balancer and never looked back. I'm disappointed with anyone that ever told me not to get one.

@darrenbenson2606 3 жыл бұрын

I agree. The best thing I’ve done for my battery bank.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Got it connected for a week now and it's been great so far.

@kevinmills5293 2 жыл бұрын

That active balancer seems to be doing a great job. Have you estimated the extra Ah’s you get before the inverter/BMS cuts out?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

@@kevinmills5293 that's not much. I would expect this to be far less than 5Ah, maybe 2-3Ah only in total.

@tonypower5625 2 жыл бұрын

Question...let say that I want to disconnect the active balancer...should I start by the small connector...and then follow with the large one? ...I'm talking of an active balancer 16 s....the connector with the ground has 10 pins...and the other connector has about 8 pins and no ground. Thanks

@camro210 3 жыл бұрын

In theory, it actually makes sense that the pack voltage increased after active balancing (in your specific situation) because for a given amount of amperage transferred, the higher voltage cell would see a *smaller* voltage decrease compared to the voltage increase that the lower voltage cell would see. This is due to where each of those cells lie on the voltage curve, of course. In reality, that would obviously depend on how efficient the balancer is.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

As others said here in the comments. I missed that... absolutely correct

@diyEVguy 3 жыл бұрын

Well said!

@mwint1982 3 жыл бұрын

Its prob just rounding

@mysterytechknowledge3664 3 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia BTW...When you were connecting the balancer, I think the diagram you were looking at was from the back side showing the mosfets not the capacitors.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

@@mysterytechknowledge3664 that would make sense then. I'll check it again.

@lifeunchainedtruckandrv2166 3 жыл бұрын

Also...Love your off the beaten path theories and practical testing to find the real results. It helps us to understand and build off your experiences!

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, that's good feedback!

@saidt.8200 3 жыл бұрын

I’ve assembled a 4 cells battery with BMS only and I had a troublesome cell, it charges faster than the other 3 so the pack never could charge beyond 3.35v each cell. Until I added a 5A HELTECH active balancer and I was so happy to charge the cells to 3.65v each. Definitely the active balancer made a big difference in my case. It balances the cells at all times while the BMS balances the cells only when charging (not sure about when discharging) and with a small 200mv dissipation from the overcharged battery. The active balancer does not dissipate the over amps, it rather transfer the amps to the other cells with lower charge.

@Jasonoid 2 жыл бұрын

I had the same issue, love my active balancer 😁

@upnorthandpersonal 3 жыл бұрын

Overall voltage goes up because cell voltage is not a linear curve. Taking power from one cell to put into another does not mean you take x voltage from one cell and put it in another; in this part of the curve you get a big delta V with small changes in state of charge.

@BradCagle 3 жыл бұрын

Beat me to it. this is 100% correct

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

That is correct, I didn't think about that. Thanks!

@upnorthandpersonal Жыл бұрын

@@josepeixoto3384 Depends on where you are in the curve. In the case we were discussion, we were in the knee of the curve where it's very steep.

@geoffreylohff3876 3 жыл бұрын

Andy - love your work! And your choice for sound effects crimping those balancer leads!

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Hahaha, couldn't help myself... Thank you.

@igornedashkivskyi1472 Жыл бұрын

Дуже гарний і потрібний огляд. Дякую тобі, чоловіче!

@megachief4ever 3 жыл бұрын

Nice! I'm in the process of building my battery pack 8s with this active balancer and a Dali BMS... perfect timing! Thank you! Now I need the strength/guts to make a video of my setup (hurricane disaster vanbuild)... much easier said than done. You are my hero! (Smartshunt before BMS ... got it)

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Christian. You can do it! 💪

@davidjimenez8952 3 жыл бұрын

how much quality having your videos!!! better than Galaxy Wars films. thank you, i enjoy a lot with this content.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot David. Very kind feedback 😊

@AHMADKAMALZUBER 3 жыл бұрын

I am convinved with the balancer. Thanks Andy

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

You and me both!

@marcelprivat 3 жыл бұрын

Du hast YT verstanden. Du bietest informatives und Unterhaltung in einem. Es macht Spaß Deine Videos zu sehen. Vielen Dank. Und mach weiter so. 🤗

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Vielen herzlichen Dank fuer dein nettes Feedback. Dann will ich mal wieder ran, es gibt noch so viel zu entdecken und zu zeigen 🤳

@gustersongusterson4120 3 жыл бұрын

Great video, looking forward to the top balancing video!

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it will take a while until I reach that with the current sun. Also supplying parts of the house already with power so the battery won't charge much during the day.

@bengtforsblom 3 жыл бұрын

Oh man, i just love the work you are doing !!!! It has helped me a lot here in Finland where i built a 12 v 100 A battery of China lifepo cells wich i use in my fishing boat and is connected to the trolling motor. When the cells came in June, 3 cells where in balance and 1 was 0,35v higher, i bottom balanced them for 2 days and then charged and installed in my with a BMS and everthing is working just fine :)

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for your feedback. It is great to hear the these videos and information help others to better understand how the cells work, how to set up the battery and make it work for their specific need.

@rtw8972 2 жыл бұрын

I really enjoy your very informative videos. Keep up the great work.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for you feedback and kind words!

@57beanyboy 3 жыл бұрын

I'm convinced. Two active balancers have been ordered!

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

I'm still testing.... For two different batteries or just to double them up?

@davebutler3905 Жыл бұрын

Good experiment! Thanks!

@trevortrevortsr2 3 жыл бұрын

The bottom "Knee" curve is not linear - the lower the voltage the less energy is needed to proportionally impact the voltage overall voltage increased because your moving energy from a fatter part of the curve where substantial energy is needed to impact on voltage to the thinner more sensitive zone- you are bottom balancing your cells which is probably better for your pack as you have capped the upper voltage at 3.45v preventing it climbing the upper knee much to effectively upper balance accurately

@ricolauersdorf687 10 ай бұрын

In a low current (solar, not vehicle) situation, i always suggest inductor balancers instead of capacitor ones. The reason is, that you always need to convert energy between magnetic and electric fields, to achieve low losses. But of course a capacititor model does the job and delivers current. Most of the time we store energy in a static voltage field, what means that a low loss energy transciever needs an inductor and a switch. Its a smps then. If we would use a rotation storage, inductive coupled to an also alternating voltage, then an good energy transformer would make use of capacitive energy delivery. Imho we all would throw away much less lithium batteries, if there would be active balancers in them and not only balancers which start to balance, when a cell is already in a harm region. Had a fresh battery for my scooter, which was weak aftr only 2 years. I opened the thing and the 24s lifepo was absolutely out of balance. I figured out, the top balance was not sufficient to hold the chargers amps. After adding an active balancer, i got it back to work since half a year. You do a great job there!

@MadMatty72 2 жыл бұрын

So scientific in determining balancer wiring - you had a bunch of caps with negative stripe on them to help trace to the negative terminal.

@rickcooperjr62864 3 жыл бұрын

Glad you see the light a active cell balancer removes a ton of headache / hassle as I suggested several times its the way to go for simplicity and theyre power draw is almost a mute point the thing is it protects your cells from imbalance of cells dipping to low while others are in the good this can and will prolong the lifespan and use ability of your lithium cells its a win win for literally pennies compared to the rest of the hardware and such so where is the negative there is only positive in installing / using a active cell balancer.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

It seems, I have to agree 😉

@bosshog2328 2 жыл бұрын

Glad you finally came to your senses. If we live by old technology we'd still be fighting wars with piston aircraft.

@rendark419 3 жыл бұрын

Hab ich doch gesagt. Aktiver Balancer arbeitet hier auch super! Und mal wieder ein schönes Video! Warte schon sehnsüchtig auf den Australien-Sommer! Kämpfen in unserer Region gerade mit einer Hochwasser Katastrophe.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Stay safe over there! Hoffentlich bist du nicht selbst betroffen. Ich kann schon etwas mehr Solar sehen, was reinkommt. Die Tage werden wieder etwas laenger und die Sonne steht steiler.

@stevedutcher3875 2 жыл бұрын

I ordered two on the balances for testing, thanks!

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! They work well.

@trevilights 3 жыл бұрын

I bought one active 24v 8S balancer a couple of weeks back because I had a couple of cells that will just outrun other cells when charging and will get very close to the overcharged level. The Smart BMS was never capable of balance them right. The active balancer solved this problem. I have it connected ALL the time now. It has performed amazingly.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it looks like these things actually work quite well.

@trevilights 3 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yes. In my case, I am using the inverter to power all of my essential loads in my home. The battery is cycle once a day and I need the cells to be as balanced as possible in a short period of time. This device help a lot. Specially when it is capable of moving 5A.

@SenatorPerry 3 жыл бұрын

Just to add, you can get two of the active balancers and put them in parallel on the same balancing leads. They collide a lot at first, but over time they sync up with what they are doing.

@trevilights 3 жыл бұрын

@@SenatorPerry Good to know. Thx.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

@@SenatorPerry Cannot imagine how this may work, but I will test it... 😉

@wayne8113 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Andy

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

No worries

@rubenmuller5965 3 жыл бұрын

Fantastic video, really changed my opinion, thank you!

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Ruben!

@lawrencebrewer8769 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you

@bigbeef2654 3 жыл бұрын

I would love to see you add a second balancer, the same one you have to see if it balances twice as fast. The balancer on your BMS does not use enough balance current to keep up with your massive bank.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Now after several days, all cells are still in balance. Once this has been achieved, I think the max 5A balance current is fine. As the balancer works 24/7 it does not need to be as fast. As seen in the video, it takes only 12h or so to get them all in line again.

@rOSScOGITANS 2 жыл бұрын

yes many users suggest it, i think it's important when you have not good quality cells

@ltcmdrdata4611 3 жыл бұрын

thats what i´m talking about. active balancer´s are working very well in combination with a bms. bms for battery/cell protection and active balancer to balance, up to 6.5A.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

That seems to be working well. Are you the real Ingo von der Lippe? 🤔

@ltcmdrdata4611 3 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yes, I´am the real one. The name of the other guy is Jürgen von der Lippe but his real name is Hans-Jürgen Hubert Dohrenkamp.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

@@ltcmdrdata4611 Das hab ich jetzt verwechselt!

@r.b.l.5841 Жыл бұрын

I use BMS with active 2A balancer - after nearly a year, checked three 280Ah batteries, they are 3-4milli-volt spread in each battery! Thanks Andy, I agree with you, the balancing is a low cost and important piece of equipment to keep all the cells operating at peak performance, no runners.

@OffGridGarageAustralia Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I like them very mich as well. Do you leave yours on all the time?

@r.b.l.5841 Жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia YUP! I see no reason to turn them off, and the cells are always very well balanced - cost is nothing, benefits are great!

@mhamma6560 2 жыл бұрын

Great vid on using a balancer. It can help squeeze a little bit more out of a pack as it's getting low. A balancer really is cheap piece of mind, plus long-term it might just get more life out of a cell that might have failed sooner. That's a hard thing to test since each cell is unique, but I'd bet it really helps out in the long run. I think a long-term test like 6 months or so and then remove it and check for deviation after a week of no balancer to see if the pre-balancer deviation has returned. That should show if it's doing anything for life extension or not.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

That's a great suggestion, thank you.

@SirValak 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome 😎 your videos rock. Pretty cool testing

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much!

@alexandergunda8916 3 жыл бұрын

Andy I'm happy that we finally succeed in making you a "believer" 🤣 Btw. the schematics of the balancer are OK - if you have a closer look they are taking the side with the ICs and not the one with the capacitors as their top side.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

I'm still a 'tester' 😉

@marcusschmidt2363 3 жыл бұрын

Ok seeming how this a test i want to throw in the mix this question. Seeing what the balancer has done in 24 hours ( approximately ) ... can you have 2 balancers in parallel ? Would they fight or work together? Thanks again for your time! Marc.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Why would you do this? Just for the sake of testing or to balance faster? I have read some comments here that people have done that and it seems to work. Might be worth a test 🤔

@marcusschmidt2363 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your time... using two balancers at the same time is yes a curiosity question but more for a point of the balancer works well only at the ends of the charge curve with any noticeable improvement and not in the middle of the flat section.... so the time spent at the ends is an extremely short window of opportunity.... unless I have misunderstood a balancers functions? Thanks for doing what you do andy! Marc

@showmequick2245 3 жыл бұрын

I up vote this. Seriously this could be game changer for lots of people with mismatched cells. Please do this

@mhamma6560 2 жыл бұрын

Won't gain anything long run. Will it get the first day's balance done quicker, of course. Does it make any sense to leave it on there when 1 is plenty? No

@edwingroen2028 3 жыл бұрын

My active balancer is connected parallel to the Daly 200A smart BMS and it works fine since the start. Bms is burning high voltage off and wasted as heat. The active balancer is always on and will continue to balance between full and empty cells. I like it so much that I will do the same next time again. You get more amps in and out of same battery pack.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info. I'm really pleased with the balancer now after several days. It works very well.

@mondotv4216 Жыл бұрын

The active balancer is great at both ends of the curve. I would install a switch so I can turn it off once the battery is properly balanced. Then when it starts to drift again turn it back on. Better f you can program it but that adds cost.

@AG8000 3 жыл бұрын

Aktiv balancer is a must have nice Video. 👍👍👍

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Ha, some here say the opposite 😉

@AG8000 3 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Glaub dehnen nicht, die Lügen 🤣🤣😉

@AveRage_Joe 3 жыл бұрын

Fun times!!!

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Are you using a balancer too? Old battery, new battery?

@2ClicksUp 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for Vid & honest Info. PS; Consider the V increase from early morning to midday due to (Ambient & Chemical) Temperature increase...

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

@alexmoro348 3 ай бұрын

From my experience I say that it is better to add some fuses on that balance leads. Nice video !

@tiloalo 2 жыл бұрын

Voltage increase because voltage is not proportional to charge in lifepo4. So the battery that were good didn't loose as much voltage as the battery that were charged gained.

@rcinfla9017 3 жыл бұрын

I am an advocate of active balancers. Cheap ones can have issue with proper balancing direction when real world inverter and charger currents causes cell voltages to jump around confusing the balancer. Evaluating performance with no inverter or charging current variance is not real world use case. Be warned about capacitor charge pump type balancers long term reliabilility with electrolytic caps being subjected to high ripple current. Usually the cap's electrolyte dries out and capacitance declines. Sometimes they burst and short out from the high ripple current. As they are directly connected to cells (through MOSFET switches) there is no safeguard if they short out. If top of caps start to bulge out it is a warning of failures to come.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

I know about the problems with capacitors from my electronic background. I think they have used the better quality ones which are fully sealed and don't dry up any more as other types do.

@SuperBrainAK 3 жыл бұрын

you have to remember that measuring the current on the balance wires is not a true reading, because with two cells are in series if one is charging and the other next to it is discharging you will get a net current because you are measuring both cells at the same time.

@wibla2578 3 жыл бұрын

Pack voltage is going up because you're putting energy into cells that are deep into the knee, while the energy is coming from cells that are not deeply in the knee.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Yes, that is correct. I missed that.

@firewraak8368 3 жыл бұрын

Your video's are a great resource so thank you. Been following them here in the UK and I have been impressed with the detail.... so thank you for the time and effort you must put into the content creation and all the back office editing you must have to do before releasing them. Unfortunately when ordering from the AliExpress website there is a minimum spend which they don't tell you what that amount before you can use the discount code. Not sure if this is the same in other countries but here in the UK I have now purchase a 4S and a 16S balancer on separate orders and on both orders I was denied any discount. So, just letting you know it may be helpful if AliExpress actually said what the purchase amount has to be before the discount voucher kicks in. Many thanks again for the great content.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for your kind comment and feedback. I read this somewhere here already, the discount code does only seem to work over US$100 spent. Other said it gives you only $2 discount anyway, so probably don't bother about it.

@leocostantino3184 Жыл бұрын

Loved this video, but I have a question. Aren't you bottom balancing when you do this? after balancing at the low end, what happens at the other end?

@jamesbsa6450 3 жыл бұрын

@off-grid-garage Andy, now for a test on overall capacity acheived w/o balancer (until BMS cutoff) Vs. W/cell balancer. In theory you should be able to get more energy out as the higher capacity cells should feed the weaker ones so they all hit cutoff at about same time.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Yep, that's on my list...

@sithieu9009 11 ай бұрын

After reading almost all comments here, some concern lower end while other worry upper end. This is my solution: Have 2 AB connected (parallel). The 1st balancer is setup trigger and balance on higher end of voltage. The 2nd balancer handle lower end of voltage.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 11 ай бұрын

You only do top balancing, never bottom.

@ThanosSustainable Жыл бұрын

How does the DC-DC for the RaspPi get power? Is it connected prior to the BMS?

@PausM1142 3 жыл бұрын

In my first test I charged the cells to 3.45V with a cell difference of greater than 100mV. The DALY BMS switched off charging at 3.5V for the highest cell and the internal balancer apparently had no effect. Then I connected the active balancer and you could watch the voltage difference decrease. It took less than 12 hours for the cells to balance at 3.45V with a voltage difference of 1mV. I was just as amazed as you.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Same experience here, the BMS's balancer just does nothing with these high capacity cells. Now, everything seems to be in balance no matter what I do.

@lifeunchainedtruckandrv2166 3 жыл бұрын

Wow Andy! Maybe active balancing is actually the way to go. If the cells can be that far apart with a standard BMS That would almost certainly mean premature degradation and variation to a few cells in the pack over long duration of having different states of charge and discharge.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Yes, I was quite shocked when I saw the BMS in the morning. The pack seemed to be very balanced at the top from my last videos but cell #6 would have cut off early and tripped the BMS at some stage. The active balancer seem to work very well now after a few days.

@DanBurgaud 2 жыл бұрын

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="692">11:32</a> ABs does not transfer voltage; it transfers Electric Charge. Some of your cells had lowered charge capacity resulting in faster to drop when discharging and faster to rise when charging.

@geraldhenrickson7472 Жыл бұрын

You mean current measured as voltage?

@nigelcharles511 2 жыл бұрын

Having just taken delivery of an active balancer identical to the one that Andy bought I found that it came with no instructions. Wiring it up seems fairly self explanatory. I do have one question which I am hoping someone will be able to answer. I will be using it with a 48v system (ie. 16S layout). The balancer comes with a 17S capability. Does the last 17S connection need connecting or can it be ignored?

@muddy11111 3 жыл бұрын

On your recommendation I got a QUCC BMS. However I got the mosfet one not the relay. On overcharge of a cell this simply turns off the charging, leaving the discharge and balancing functions still working. You also sold me on the balancer. That works OK, but to stop high cell voltage cut off I run the BMS balancer at 50mV below cut off voltage. This just keeps the balancer out of trouble. Cells are balanced nicely over most of the curve, but getting the top end balanced looks like taking several days. Heading in the right direction slowly. Keep up the good work....

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

I wasn't aware that they make smart BMS with fets and higher current (200A).

@muddy11111 3 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Ahh... mine is only 100A

@muddy11111 3 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Is you fuse not 100A ? so 200A BMS is nice but you could get away with a 120A one, and still get 5KVA at the inverter. On the balancer, have you considered using the other bolt on the busbar so you don't disturb the BMS connections ?

@arrongrist868 2 жыл бұрын

Just watched more of the balancer videos. Very odd how you were then getting imbalances caused. This seems contradictory to the idea of an active balance. Your videos are very useful, keep up the good work.

@blogskiesdiyprojectssolare8634 2 жыл бұрын

nice review about active balancer.. now i'm planning to put an active balancer to my battery bank..but I have a question though: can you put 2 active balancers to a battery bank so that it can balance the battery cells quicker?

@huskylfp1505 3 жыл бұрын

Nice Dog putting out some bird's ❤️

@fredio54 3 жыл бұрын

Glad you've caught up to where I was a year ago :-D Welcome! :-)

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

It's just a test though 😊

@fredio54 3 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I can feel it coming closer, suddenly no more worries, just a max capacity scenario for your cells that actually partly solves the "more wear on weakest" issue by offloading load to stronger all the time and perhaps long term levelling the performance, too. You know it's good, proven in multiple vids, don't string it out any further, just install them for good and put a disable switch on it for your sanity/fear if you must.

@lukasmauerhoff9330 3 жыл бұрын

I see a disadvantage especially in your case with a relay-bms and slightly missmatched cells. If you're battery is at a high state of charge and there is a high amperage outside, overvoltage disconnected will trigger because the balancer destroyed your top balance and will not be able to keep up with the sun. Because you have a relay-bms, there will bee no consistent power anymore until the sun is down and the balancer is finished. You maybe get that alternating on/off situation again...

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

I don't think this is going to happen. My max charge voltage is only 3.4V and then I let the battery absorb, so current will taper off. So far the 'balancer test' seems to work quite well but I have to wait what happens when I fully charge the battery again.

@JacobLeeson-zk1ol Жыл бұрын

The voltage curve of the battery would actually cause a pack voltage increase.

@tinkerfy 8 ай бұрын

Hi, how it going? I've just recently came across this and hope you can help answer some of my queries. Do you connect the active balancer between the BMS and the battery pack without a power supply? Or the active balancer has to connect directly to the cells without the BMS and power supply to let it do its job? If one of the cell is dead at below 2.5v, is the active balancer able to revive it?

@andreaskoumides9599 2 жыл бұрын

Great video, can you leave the balancer permanently on the battery?

@gerdbeutler3728 8 ай бұрын

My 8 LFP Batteries will arrive soon and I'm asking myself, if I really need to top balance them or just use same 5A active balancer instead. This would save much time. As a SolarBeginner I'm thankful for any advice.

@Sylvan_dB 3 жыл бұрын

I picked up a couple to play with. They just arrived yesterday. I'm familiar with the boost/buck style and am curious how this capacitor-only style will work. I sure wish I had the 32 channel 'scope I used at a prior job... I'd be monitoring those capacitors!

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

What do you expect is going to happen with the capacitors?

@Sylvan_dB 3 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I expect they are going to charge to cell voltage or maybe 2x cells, then discharge into the lower cell of the pair. But I'm not sure and I'd like to know how it works!

@stuartsmith945 3 жыл бұрын

It is not unreasonable that the voltage went up with the balancer running. Cell 6 was in the steep part of it's charge curve where most of the other cells were in a clatter portion. The balancer will affect the voltage of the higher charged cells much less than cell 6 so cell 6 increases in voltage more than the sum of the higher cells decrease in voltage.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Yes, I figured that later on after reading many comments here about it. It was not obvious when I looked at it at when recording.

@gustersongusterson4120 3 жыл бұрын

I have a kinda crazy question... could you use a 16s active balancer with an 8s2p battery for all 16 cells? If it's just balancing cell voltage it should work as a balancer doesn't seem to care about the overall pack voltage right?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

No, that will not gonna work and you might cause a short across your cells. The balancer will be damaged as you connect several leads to the same battery. With a 8s2p pack you definitely need a 8S balancer.

@samdelahaye6311 2 жыл бұрын

Brillant vidéo, very interesting! Was wondering would a balancer work on a 24v lead acid battery with 14 x 2v cells to extend its life? If I understand correctly the balancer only looks at the voltage difference, not the type of battery? Many thanks, keep up the good work!!

@liam3284 11 ай бұрын

Yes a lead acid bank would benefit, and you could avoid or reduce voltage in the adsorbtion phase of charge.

@PentaxLife 3 жыл бұрын

Nice On Reliable inverters is there a way to increase the high voltage up input My keeps shut down if if volts are at 14.3 and with my new lithium battery I lowered the pack voltage to 14v so I am losing pack volume

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Can you not adjust the love voltage disconnect in your inverter? 14.3V is far to high. It should be around 11V for a 4s LFP pack (2.7V/cell).

@excillisbank2611 2 жыл бұрын

bien !!!

@martehoudesheldt5885 3 жыл бұрын

they work even better with higher cell volts (on top). and you can parallel them up also.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Why would you parallel them? For faster balancing?

@martehoudesheldt5885 3 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia if you are running a high current they can keep up better

@lucdesmedt7056 2 жыл бұрын

Andy, the total voltage of a battery pack can rise with an active balancer for the following reason. The voltage of a battery cell is non linear, especially when the battery is near empty or near full. Let us take an extreme example of a 2S battery pack. cell 1 : 2,5V cell 2 : 3,2V Total = 5,7V When the active balancer transfers capacity from cell 2 to cell 1, the voltage of cell 2 will decrease less then the increase of voltage of cell 1 due to the non linear behavior of a LiFePo4 battery cell. after some balancing time one could have following measurments cell 1 : 2,7V cell 2 : 3,1V Total : 5,8V I hope to have cleared out the origin of a voltage rise when balancing with an active balancer at low SOC or high SOC. Greetings, Luc from Belgium (near Austria an far away from Australia)

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you. Yeah, that makes sense. Hence it is important to always have a BMS as well which monitors single cell voltages and disconnects the charger/load if one cell gets out of scope.

@iCraft.Studio 3 ай бұрын

can the active balancer also balance the paralleled cell? I have 8s2p 3.2v 120ah prismatic cells.

@3DLasers Жыл бұрын

Oh, I guess I’m standing outside of the wrong garage here. Your sign said FREE WI-FI and I still haven’t figured out the password yet and it’s freezing out here. I thought you said Austria… 🥶

@JN-ou9ws Жыл бұрын

Hi, why is the 3rd cell down on the right side staying on a different shade than the rest of the cells

@electronicartis 2 жыл бұрын

What is a good type of balancer to purchase.

@1981dasimpson 3 жыл бұрын

wow so many sections to go into to check this and that they so need one display screen with all the controls like the raspberry pi gui but with more information and control buttons

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

The balancer itself has no interface, so that's a set a and forget device. Everything else is done through the Victron VRM and the occasional checking of the BMS.

@1981dasimpson 3 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia yeah i think the active bms could be made to trigger with a voltage trigger so the voltages befor you wanted it to balance at you could have it work at

@arebear4797 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Andy, Good day, Just want to say that I was expecting that you going to change you mind about the active balancer. It is lucky that you got the right one and not the small one which might have change the outcome and your conclusion of this test as well. Looking forward for the second part of the test at the topo f the voltage and I do expect the almost the same result especially after a few hours after the sunset. it will equalize. Just probably if you wanna test further on the active balancer , i suggest it would be: 1) The balancer will keep balance the cell even all the cell are balanced. 2) if the above true, that mean the balancer will drain current overtime especially with smaller capacity pack. I had a friend who installed this balancer for the 32650 4S 12V and leave it for few days, the pack drain to 2.++V.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you. So far I'm really please with the result of the balancer. I think the balancer will turn off at a certain stage, either under a certain voltage or if the spread is below a threshold.

@elektrobits3408 3 жыл бұрын

This balancer is impressive indeed. But what does balanced mean? You know, voltage is not everything. So why are some cells too low? If all cells are equal in terms of capacity, you are right. Balancing the voltage, no matter if at top or bottom, is always good. If one cell is lower in capacity, you get a problem. At the bottom end, its voltage is too low, so the balancer adds energy to it. Then at the top end, its voltage rises faster, and the added energy appears as an additional imbalancing. The balancer is not capable to align the charging level of the cells to each other. It makes it worse. If your cells don't have this problem, it will come when cells are getting older. I don't see an automated method to solve this. I would monitor the over- and undervoltage of a weak cell and then decide to add or remove some Ah manually ... until the cell must be replaced. This will come soon, the worst cell gets the highest stress.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

The cells are not all the same and never will be. Even they come matched from the supplier, they are not matched. You're dealing with 16 individual cells. And apparently, the drift and spread gets worse when they age over time. The balancer prevents the battery from being disconnected prematurely by the BMS as cell 6 would have triggered the cell low voltage disconnect. The same happens at the top if #6 goes to high.

@elektrobits3408 3 жыл бұрын

OK, very interesting. This makes it a very dynamic system. The missing capacity of the weakest cell is compensated by the balancer by adding energy at the bottom and removing this and more energy at the top. There is no continuous improvement but the weak cell is tossed from one end to the other. You think the balancer is strong enough for this? This is not what you have tested yet.

@amateurwizard 3 жыл бұрын

I'm curious, could you please do a video of a schematic of how you would set up the system if you were starting again with no limits. Could you have an active balancer beneath a BMS in a 24/7 system on all your batteries.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

You can definitely leave the balancer connected in parallel to your BMS. That is no problem.

@MyQsilver Ай бұрын

hello sir, is it ok to add this external active balancer to the BMS with built-in 0.6 active balancer?

@EddywaKenya 3 жыл бұрын

Batrium all the way!!!.... 2 years NO problem.... one install DONE. But only me.

@farida7777777 2 жыл бұрын

If your inverter is set to stop charging at a certain top voltage and switches of at a certain bottom voltage and the balancer keep your batteries balanced, it makes the bms redundant? Help me here if Im wrong, the bms does not come near keeping voltages balanced like the balancer. It only helps to stop charging and protect the battery from going to low. So why do you still need a bms?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

You always want a BMS. I show exactly this in the next video. The BMS is your safety net, your insurance for your battery. Never rely on just the charge controller or a balancer. There is always something which can go wrong and without BMS things go 💥 quickly. You can turn off balancing in your BMS though if you use another balancer.

@Eighteenxray 2 жыл бұрын

What app or device does the app go with that lets you see the SOC of each individual battery?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

That's the app of the BMS which shows all individual voltages.

@videostar555 3 жыл бұрын

Is it good for cells for actively balancing every charge discharge?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

The amount is current is only small. I don't think it harms the overall performance or longevity of the cells.

@saidt.8200 3 жыл бұрын

I’ve been looking for a way to connect (combine) two batteries on Lifepo4 and one AGM but couldn’t find a definitive clear answer. Could you orient me to some resources or maybe can be a project for one of your videos.

@bishwagit 3 жыл бұрын

Andy, it's time for you to build the second battery by using victron smart battery protect & active call balancer. Hope you understand....👍👍

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

No, I don't understand... explain.

@01themightyman01 Жыл бұрын

So many questions!! I have the exact same setup, same BMS same problem but no active balancer.. If I charge or discharge at a low state and let the BMS go within within 4 hours the cells are balanced. Maybe you could do a video without the active Is balancer only BMS.. THANKS

@trevortrevortsr2 3 жыл бұрын

SKU make a range of what they call a "capacitor BMS " instead of the more common (and cheaper) bleed balance BMS - it may be the answer to these big cell systems

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Working for a week now and it's been great.

@showmequick2245 3 жыл бұрын

Link please

@chuxxsss 3 жыл бұрын

Morning Andy from lockdown 4.0 in Victoria WTF. Now how do you time the vlogs mate? Which video software do you use too? 15 degree how I miss Queensland.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

That's in the settings in KZfaq, where you set the publish settings. No additional software needed.

@chuxxsss 3 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks Andy, have a great day mate.

@lennieadi 3 жыл бұрын

Nice video as always Andy. Keep educating us. Thanks. Question in generator charging. If I had 50kwh battery bank and a 7kva generator. Would I devide 50/7 to get the charge time duration or are my maths wrong?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

That would be correct. You're adding 7kWh per hour charging, so ending up with 50kWh charged in around 7h.

@lennieadi 3 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Great thought so. Thanks for reply. Wanted to check. Awesome work buddy. I’m learning so much. While I’m getting the basic understanding, from the build perspective in the earlier videos, a lot of the detailed technical stuff over the last month or so I’m still trying to figure out. Keep up the great work Andy. 👏🏾👏🏾🇬🇧🇯🇲

@immrnoidall 2 жыл бұрын

can we use 2-3 of them to make really fast balancing?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

I read from others that this would work. If you need that sort of balancing, I think something is wrong with your whole setup. You should not rely on these balancer to get the job done!

@thegreenthing7603 8 ай бұрын

Hi andy.. i have a bunch of runner cells 3 of them in my 16s setup.. and these runner cells prevent my battery to charge all the way up.. will this balancer prevent them from running? 3.65v on the runner while the rest is at 3.40 charging.. gonna turn them automatically at 53.6V then shutsdown at 53v pls advice

@OffGridGarageAustralia 8 ай бұрын

Yes, the balancer will definitely help with this. Just make sure, to turn off the balancer once the cells go below 3.4V again.

@michaelwilkes2519 3 жыл бұрын

Can these active balancers be permanently left active on the battery pack or should they only be activated as needed?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

Yes, they can be permanently connected. I've got it running for several days now and it works really great. I'm please with the result so far.

@bobelton9486 Жыл бұрын

Hi Andy, did you conclude that adding an Active balancer permanently alongside a standard BMS was a good idea? I'm setting up a couple of 14KW batteries using LF280K's and am concerned with the JBD's only having a small balancing current.

@dollyone3714 Жыл бұрын

what you meant by permanently? an AB can always be plugged out of the bank..

@bobelton9486 Жыл бұрын

@@dollyone3714 My original question meant, should a AB be left on all the time or just balanced occassionally. I have my answer. It is better to just turn on the AB from a voltage of around 3.33V until fully charged

@ShanakaAbeywickrama 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Andy, can I splice a balance lead cable for the balancer from my BMS balance lead cable?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

You should probably not do that as the active balancer could cause a voltage drop in the thin cables and make the BMS reading wrong data.

@ShanakaAbeywickrama 3 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks Andy. Sending you a beer for your efforts :)

@SATAOfficial123 Жыл бұрын

If I buy 10-14s, can under 10S also use this battery balancer?

@ingridpumberger1064 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Andy, With BMS + Active Balancer we are getting more cabling to the battery cells. I think about using a 16 x WAGO 2002-1781 3-conductor fuse terminal block; for mini-automotive blade-style fuses; with test option; 2.5 mm²; Push-in CAGE CLAMP®; 2,50 mm²; One wire from each cell to the terminal block. BMS and Balancer connected to the WAGO after the fuse. Easy disconnect for maintenance reasons by removing the fuses. Testing with multimeter etc via the WAGO Test pin. With this structured cabling it would no longer be necessary to touch the cells when doing maintenance, testing etc. and therefore mitigate the risk of shortcuts. What do you think about this idea ?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 3 жыл бұрын

I would be worried about resistance across all these additional connections when we measuring in the mV area for balancing.

@dollyone3714 Жыл бұрын

i use blox FJ5N terminal block with no fuse. not for maintenance per se but for centralised wiring ease

@uweknofel9149 Жыл бұрын

Hi and greetings from Germany, I have - same as you - never used a balancer so far in my diy 12v LiFePo4 in my camper, no issues so far. But now with my 48v 2P16S battery I am having over/undervoltage issues when charging via solar ( Victron 150/35 ) and someone on FB pointed me in your direction and the use of 48v balancers for ‚bigger‘ batteries. Must have missed that, even I subscribed already long time ago. I am not sure it will solve my issues, but your test looks promising and I will give it a try. Can you tell which BMs you are using ? Didn‘t find you mentioned it in the video or description Thx again for you effort and input 👍

@OffGridGarageAustralia Жыл бұрын

Thanks Uwe. A 16s battery is more likely to go out of balance than a 12V battery. The active balancers work very well and help a lot to bring the battery back in balance. Just ensure, that the balancer is not running all the time. Either use a switch to activate it from time to time when the battery is full or an controller which does that everytime the voltage goes over 54V or so. I have a recent video showing that: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oauVd5Cgspq1no0.html Gruesse in die Heimat.

@DanBurgaud 2 жыл бұрын

Active Balancers balances TWO ADJACENT CELLS by transferring charge from a higher voltage cell into a lower voltage cell. Some ABs have LEDs to indicate which pair it is working on making it a little fun to watch. Current is also depended on the voltage difference. A Balancer might be rated at 5A, but if the voltage difference is small so will the current flow. This is natural; you do not want to overdraw from one cell and overcharge the adjacent only to reverse it the next turn. I theorize we can use multiple balancers for faster balancing. ie, using two 9s balancers on a 16s bank. One AB connected to Cells 1~9 and the 2nd AB connected to Cells 8~16.