the funniest thing about this, is assuming that coach would only "just be" off the fairway from a driver :)

So happy you guys do videos like this. So many golfers out there would shoot better scores if they would just think alittle bit more. Thanks so much for giving us such good content to THINK about.

Fantastic video! I love hitting driver and putting myself into terrible situations. Water, trees, OB and at the end of the wrong saying well if you knock off those 3-5 holes you played level par. With those holes you are almost into double digits of par. We are typically our own worst enemies......

Not sure how many folk (who don't break 80 already) hit 9 iron 160 and 7 iron 180. Ever thought of having someone do these sort of tests who doesn't break 80.?

Brilliant! Coach is a legend. You help us all feel better about our game - even if thaqt is not quite your intention!!

Really interesting video, Mark and Coach. I play off 10 and have been stuck there a long while. The 80 threshold is what I aim to break to shoot under my handicap. I can shoot a few under it but never more. The reason for that, I think, is when I’m in the fairway hitting mid irons, I am not hitting greens. I can generally minimise damage once I’m off the fairway with a few up and downs, and I’m gaining shots with my putter. So for me, based on my own game and my own stats, the thing separating me from a single figure handicap, is greens in reg - particularly when I’m in the fairway. I am putting more pressure on my short game which obviously will result in some missed up and downs, when it’s not on. Obviously just my thoughts on my own game. Thanks for the video as always.

I almost think the more sensible play would to take a 7 iron on the first shot and just run it under? Obviously conditions dependant but I think that’s what I would do

Congrats on 300k mark. I find it hard to believe that he only has 300k with the quality of golfing info he produces day in day out and then you look at people like click bait shiels who only posts crappy content once or twice a week like ‘the golden driver or illegal golf ball that only goes straight’ has over 800k, daylight robbery!!!

I heard ‘blue balls’ and there was no laughing. Very disappointed, this is not what a subscribe for lol

As usual you’ve made me go back to junior days when we’d go out in the evening and try shots from everywhere. Made recovery shots much easier. I totally change my mindset day to day. Good driver day I hit it, good iron day then pull back off the tee. Never have days where it’s all going anymore 😃

Depends whether that “bad” drive is representative of an actual bad drive (for me that is) if I try to rip my driver 6 times a round, then I’d expect to be 3 off the tee at least twice. I just can not make that amount of shots back in the other 16 holes. Using your example, if I was on the fairway twice but one was 20 yards further up, then I would hope to make par from both, but sinking a putt for birdie is a once every 3 or 4 round event, so the gain is minimal. For me it’s all about shots not lost as opposed to shots gained.

I sort of tested this last season without trying to. Started the season off 7 wanted to get to 5. Play a links course and decided the way to do it was to attack and hit driver/long clubs and get close leaving shorter distances in and going for par 5’s in 2. Finished the season by changing the handicap by he desired 2 just unfortunately the wrong way and went up to 9. Season before he done the opposite went for no par5s in 2 took no trouble on and went from 9 to the 7. Sort of says it all for me personally.

This is actually really refreshing to hear, I'm at the point of my game looking to break 80 consistently and the amount of times i hear "play safe" "just hit a hybrid off the tee" ect ect is ridiculous, If im going to miss I'd rather miss 20-30 yards closer to the green and get creative with my shot in! "GIVE ME THE LUMBER!!"

"I miiiight hit a couple of fairways" lol love the confidence!!

Interestingly recent round stats in Spain illustrated 85% of fairways.......the missed fairways were three off the tee! Off the back tips Approach and short game were the key to scoring for which clearly 30% GIR and some 38 putts and some ‘de-greening’ attests to areas to focus on for improvement! Ie. 100 yards and in! 😄

I used to just carry a 3 wood exclusively for tee shots, no driver. Last season bought a driver and handicap dropped by 4. I was perhaps marginally more accurate with 3 wood but not worth the extra distance I get with driver. Now I’ve swapped the 3 wood for a 5 wood so I’ve got a more precise club if need, but pretty much always try and bomb a driver!

I played the regular tee 6300+- yard only using my 6 iron off the tee and still scored what I would have by hitting driver. Because it’s give and take. For me it comes down to reading what the course dictates.

I would like to see just the two of you on a course and explaining every shot before you hit it as to why you you choose the club and intended shot ie lie, distance, obstacles, green/amber/red flag, must carry, what must be avoided etc etc

You guys allways make such good content, the best out there! Masterclass editing!!!!!!!

pga already did this test and the closer you are to the hole is way better then laying up to a yardage you are comfortable with it wasnt even a contest

Great vid again

Really wish you'd do this again and add a third set of shots punching UNDER the tree! I think Coach deserves to see Mark do it!

I love this video but I think this would be the ultimate "simulator test" for you guys to try... Set up a 400 yard hole, tight fairways and firm greens. Play the hole 5 times with a Driver off the tee, then 5 times with a 4 wood off the tee and then finally, 5 times with a 3-4 iron (or Rinky!) off the tee. I would think that that would give you a solid "look" at the numbers of how important Distance vs. Accuracy is and where the breakdown of going "too short" off the tee comes in vs. going longer and not being able to control your landing area.

Been watching you boys for a long time, this is one of your best. Just fascinating, and about any golfer could put themselves in Matt's shoes for these shots and relate (although most of us would do far worse I'm afraid). Cheers.

I really like the format with both of you in the frame, nice job.

To do a shots-gained illustration, you guys should play a hole where it's sort of 50/50 whether you would take a driver or not (like it would be debatable). Then, play the hole 5 times with driver and 5 times with hybrid or 4 iron off the tee, and then look at the numbers. Obviously, don't worry about chipping and putting- just distance from the hole / off the green, like in this video. That way the situation would take everything into account (driving accuracy, rough v fairway accuracy, trees in the way, bunkers, other obstacles etc.). It would do a good job of illustrating the different situations you may find yourself in on the course, and whether the extra distance off of the tee with the driver is really worth it on the whole. I'd watch that.

Great stuff yet again. Enjoying the journey. 👍

I'm sure I won't be the first person to say this, Mark, but you should consider linking up with Scott Fawcett; he has a lot of interesting data on these kind of decisions. Love the conversation.

Such a good vid

For me my 4w (actually a 5w lofted down a degree to 17 degrees) off the tee is a 230 yard total club, sometimes 235 yards but no further, the driver goes 245-260 yards total - very occasionally I get a little more. A 9i for me carries mid to high 130 yards (cannot quite get 140 yards carry). So any par 4 of 375 yards or less it is better to take my 4w off the tee and at worst I am hitting an 8i off the fairway, far better than trying from the trees. Anything longer than 375 yards and it is probably better to take the driver - I am usually fairly consistent with the driver, just not particularly long

It would have been really interesting for you to pull the standard deviation of those distances into your analysis. From the rough he averaged 14y from the hole with a standard deviation of 1 yard. This means that all of his shots were between 13 and 15 yards from the hole. From the fairway he averaged 8 yards from the hole but his standard deviation was 3 yards. This means that his potential for success included a shot that was as close as 5 yards from the hole with his worst shot being 11 yards from the hole. Wider standard deviation from the fairway but honestly shows that he had greater potential for success from the fairway. Sorry, i'm a stats nerd...

Got to be close... Looks like such a give and take... I suppose it depends on the skill set in combination of some luck and experience. Pin placement though. Those bunker shots ask some questions there I don't like.

To your point mark about amateurs not knowing their patterns, and where I see a lot of strokes lost on the course is carry distance. Not knowing the 9 iron goes 140 not the 160 hit once on the range. 7 of 10 shots coming up short, puts a lot of pressure on the up and down. I started to keep my stats, I found 150 and in, I lost strokes but I always blamed my putting. On this video most amateurs are not getting in side 14 yards from 180. But I bet if we were 160 out and choose to punch it under the tree we stand a better chance of getting closer. So many ideas from this video on not breaking 80 when you talk skill sets.

Love this kind of content, even as a high handicap golf I can take valuable info from it.

Loved this vid. Got a lot more than I first thought I would

Great conversation guys, could also factor in that some of the shots using driver might end up being stimied giving only the option of chipping out. There's rarely any black and white answers in golf, hence the perpetual search for improvement. Thanks again for the great content.

I studied chaos at uni, helps me apply strokes gained to my game! Seriously though, the stats help keep me positive over each stroke I play (mostly). Sport genuinely gets interesting when you get heavy on the stats, it's definitely changed the paradigm in golf, look at the NBA at the moment to beat 40% from 3 you've got to shoot 60% from 2, bit of a no brainer, the stats there have turned games into 3 point contests, whether that's a positive I don't know.

Haha just wanted to comment that I suspected some sneaky plans by Crossfield when you started about it yourself. Lockey army might get a new win again!

Could you do this test where Matt hits the tee shot with driver and 4 wood and plays the subsequent second shot and see the results? I know if I had Matt's power I'd never put the driver down and play for the days it all goes to plan

One of the worst feelings for me on the golf course is when I decide to layup / play safe from the tee ... and end up in the rough. If I'm in the rough anyway, I might as well have tried to go for it. In most cases I would rather be 160 behind a tree than 185 behind a tree. It really does come down to understanding what your strengths and weaknesses are on a particular day. Standing on the tee box planning the hole - what is the handicap rating and distance? Where is the danger? Am I on offense trying to make a birdie? Am I on defense trying to prevent a double bogey? Is my bunker and scrambling going well, or are my long irons accurate? And to be honest ... what are my playing partners doing - if they go for it and hit driver well, then 90% chance I'm also going for it. GO ARMY !

The result isnt surprising at all, but the bigger question is are you actually accurate enough on the 20 yard less club from the tee to matter vs the longer club? The test you guys did before with that guest about going after your drives vs "fairway finder" drives kind of illustrated this well. We assume the 20 shorter shot going to be more accurate, but in reality it isnt always the case. In that instance, hit the long club.

Missing the Muppets on tour so much i have been rewatching the boys in Greece where Coach eagled that hole after nearly going in the water.lol

300K subscribers!! Well done, boys!

Are you guys planning on taking this video to the course as I’m a 13 HCP wanting to break 80 this year for the first time after getting 83’s and 81’s last year think would make for a great video, then to finish after the 6 of each (from rough and fairway) for Coach to actually finish each shot as if he was in a playing situation to truly show the strokes gained potential as would include the short side bunker shots and potential 3 putts. PS sorry Coach 😂😂

I’m actually just started driving the ball pretty well so i would be hitting driver all day long. I’m in the high 80 low 90s area so iron play while in trouble/in fairway is what going to get me over that threshold of breaking 80

Best comments in the last minute. Better players play the game, worse players play each shot.

Lockey Laserballz 🤣😍😆

Fantastic discussion at the end re: the tennis analogy! Bang on.

good stuff guys but I seriously miss the 4 man course vlogs!!!!!!!!

Also, it would be super cool if you brought an amateur (like 12-18 handicap) golfer to help with some of these demonstrations regarding ideas around strokes gained. Because, your's and Lockey's general skill set makes it difficult to judge whether these kind of ideas around strokes gained translate to amateur golfers. For example, most amateur golfers probably cannot reliably shape the golf ball from right to left around a tree, so that situation would be measurably worse for an amateur then it is for Lockey. I'm obviously not sure, but I believe I would be much better from 180 into a green, rather than 130 in the rough with tree branches in the way that require me to shape the ball. Again, another example, most amateurs don't hit their driver pencil straight like you do Mark. So, a lot of amateurs have to factor in the risk / likelihood of hitting the ball out of bounds entirely if they pull driver. These are all elements of what might factor into ideas around strokes gained that are pretty unique to amateur, weekend golfer's that are not really even problems that you guys would take into account. I would love to see an amateur golfer help illustrate some of these ideas in your videos.

That’s good coach locky

A guy I sometimes play with calls me "the only guy he's seen consistently make par or bogey from another holes fairway or the woods." Recovery shots are crazy important when lowering scores.

So question as it pertains to your comments at the end. Is there any replacement to experience? Could a tool like Arccos help speed up the learning curve? In turn allowing me have more capacity to think throughout the round.

I think coach should play the hole from tee to green. Driver and 4w off the tee and see the scores at the end.

I can hit low draws and high ones but control over the amount of said draw etc means I want to be off the fairway, however when you get a great shot out of trouble there’s no better feeling.

Should try this test with Coach playing like 5 from fairway and 5 from rough at 160 and then like 8 from fairway and 2 from rough from 180 to better simulate the likely outcomes after hitting either driver or 4 wood from the tee. Would be interesting to see those numbers

Enjoy these types of videos

I hit a driver more erratically than Coach so my play is to be in fairway but further back with a clearer shot into the greens as I can hit eight out of ten greens with an iron.

One thing I'd say is for me having to hit a 7 iron 150 round a tree will be so much easier than trying to hit my 5 iron which becuase I have to much more loft! Obvs if I was couch I'd go shorter and straighter but just thought interesting point

It's risk and reward, if the driver hits the fairway it's a 9 iron or PW which should set up a birdie chance. The shots he hit from the trees your just hoping to give yourself a chance of par. Also depends how good you are with a fairway wood from the tee, would you be guaranteed to hit the fairway everytime? I personally hit my driver very well and would back myself to hit as many fairways with driver as I would with my 3 wood.

I did a short game test for shots ending up 3ft from the pin. Im as accurate wih a 4 hybrid as a 54 wedge, with a smaller dispersion.

Should be aiming further right off the tee, minimal shots behind the big tree and a few more in the right rough.

The Army is strong with this vid!!!!!

Be interesting to see what the data from your old Arcoss and GameGolf says on the subject! Be a good vid to unpick that stuff.

Would like to know what the results would be hitting a 5 iron from the fairway and 8/7 iron from the rough... Feel like most club golfers aren't hitting 180 with a 7??

Quick greens brah....have you seen the weather in the UK....you need water wings to play on our greens at the moment

Hank Haney theory of bomb it as far as you can because a short shot with a wedge from the rough is easier than the mid-long iron. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Would love a breaking 70 series

not sure this fairway but further / rough but closer debate is useful when hitting off a mat.

I know you’ve done these in the past but could you do a video on reducing spin with driver?

My first ever eagle was from under the trees on the right of hole 8 on the Derby at the Belfry ( I think) sliced drive, left with 140ish meters to the hole and because I am not bad at low and long punched a 5 iron under the trees bounced before the green 2 or 3 times and rolled on and in,. I think I play better from the rough as I am very rarely on the fairway,

Lockey vs Lockey isn't that a win for the army!

I don’t want to be Matt’s blue balls....lol! I can’t believe how maturely you said that. Lol

Would coach or a handicap golfer hit more fairways with a 4 wood over a driver. Yes but by how much?

being accurate from 180 yards is so difficult, honestly from that distance if i strike the ball well enough to be the right distance i'm delighted

Coach is on 🔥

I normally don’t read comments on YT videos & after reading these I remember why. The amount of people hung up on “I don’t hit a 9iron 160” etc etc. it isn’t about do you hit a 9 iron 160, well then get stronger. Would you rather have a 9 iron or 7 or the specific clubs you use from 160 or 180.... paying attention to what the person in the video actually says instead of what you want to hear is difficult huh guys? 🤣😂😂🤣

They way I'm approaching the game right now? I'm trying to leave 120-90 yards to the pin at approach. So generally I'm Driver off the tee, a lay up, then a wedge in, a Par or Birdie putt. So even here, behind the tree? Don't care. Laying up and taking the Par over shaping the shot and risking the bunker.

Only problem with this is that tree shot would not have a fairway lie like he has hitting off the mat. So the shot would be a lot different

Great series this bruh, if you keep working, I reckon there's a slim chance Matt might actually break 80 on your next course vid 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣⛳⛳👍

Mark coaching Coach! Get Matt practicing and the guy has game.. can’t wait to get my season started.. Will this be the year?

The type of rough would make a big difference. Knee hight fescue and strokeplay might be instant death with a driver.

Strokes gained from Fairway 180 yards is 3.08; 160 yards rough is 3.23. Gap = 0.15 only. But here the results from Matt are good since a mat instead of a real rough and a real tree might also penalize him more in reality. “Rough” with stokes gained means a clear shot, not facing a tree

I'd like to point out that the recovery skill is more apparent for shorter golfers because from those trees I'd be hitting a 7 instead of coach's 9 iron.

On Sky tonight the golf brought up some of Rorys stats, for the season so far hes 179th I think it was on driving accuracy, hes 1st in SG tee to green, that says alot for 1 recovery and being closer to the green, 2 for the ridiculous courses they play on with next to no hazards or trees lol.

Coach is on fire at mo 🔥 5-0 to the Army 😂 😂 😂

While I see what point you are trying to make regarding strokes gained theory. I guess it needs to be nuanced. I feel like if you would retest this without a pro, like a 15 handicapper. Who needs to decide which shot he likes better. A 180 meters approach but with a safe wood 3 from the tee or a casual 150 meters approach with a driver from the tee. I know I would always choose the shorter iron on to the green.

Locky, master of the rough ball 😂

For me I would rather be further up there as I am just as likely to be in the rough further back so might aswell be further up there.

Coach was never going to let us down. I'm referring to those last shots.

OK, yet consider that the latest US PGA Tour stats show that “lay up” shots miss the fairway as much as drivers. My question as a member of 2 courses with penalties on both sides of most fairways: does that change the decision process away from drivers that are more likely to reach OB or water?

Me being left handed I'll take the under the tree shot all day! I can just hit my regular slice, and it'd be perfect

Great content - how about a vlog on how to hit some of these recovery shots - cutting it and drawing it round trees?

Would be interesting to see the average of three from behind the tree and three from the fairway at the same distance versus six from the fairway but further back. Even an average golfer would expect to hit some fairways along with tree balls

So much in golf is lie dependent, I mean, 159 out of the "simulator rough" is not 159 out of xyz rough...if you have a perfect lie then great but most are not in the rough. Would LOVE you guys when doing your playing vlogs to drop a few balls and create this situation. P.S. I bet if you put coach in the right rough it would be completely different assuming same yardage and hole...not as easy for him I'm sure...

I know you have covered this for sure over the years of producing for KZfaq, but can we back to basics about shaping shots? Since Coach is on fire with his irons can he instill some of that Lockey magic to us amateurs?

You only get one shot on the course. His first attempt to draw it wasn't enough. So he then continued to manipulate it to get it right. You can't do that when faced with that shot so my assumption is to move me back 20 yards and all day long I'm going to hit better shots into the green from the fairway. He's also hitting off a matt and not a shoddy lie in the rough and trying to manipulate it. I'll take distance in the rough all day but if the question is now I have to manipulate a shot around trees or obstacles out of the rough then the fairway straight on shot is preferable.

Depending on The Fairway I'd take a 7-iron try to go underneath the tree with the ball back in my stance try to run it up front

You need to test the benefit of being in the fairway from 160 yards in order to evaluate the trade-off between more aggressive off the tee vs. safer.

I am going with the 7 iron but it will be very close....