This is a comment. It is beneficial to the KZfaq algorithms.

Man this opening sketch is amazing lmao

Well, at least we know that the next silver border expansion should be Un-ethical

I consume a lot lot of Magic content but I have to say that Dies to Removal is by far the most entertaining MTG show out there. Thank you guys so much for these!

New Vince wasn't actually Regular Vince?? I noticed it only when his head started rolling away.

“Oh Vince, there’s just no replacing you - at least not yet...” *ominous music plays*

57:27 For anyone that thinks the prof is a shill, he is obviously so passionate about creating an affordable and fun card game, how could you think that???

Here's an idea that wotc won't ever implement: drop collector boosters, replace it with a collector box: it contains a playset of every card in the set. Sell it for $200 or $300. Then draft boosters aren't gambling, because everything is easily accessible. And draft booster boxes are still the cheaper option.

This makeup tutorial pro tip style guide was incredibly amazing helpful useful. Thank you, this is a human.

Vince bringing up Horse Armor "DLC" from Oblivion, brings back the memories.

"Just reprint the goddamn cards!" -Prof 2020

Prof: "I have a bridge to sell you." Me: "Is it a bridge from below?"

The Secret Lair: Fetchlands product just proves that I'll be proxying fetchlands forever.

I love the openings to this series.

*Finds out that MtG might be having a legal battle with other countries* "Let them fight"

"Lootboxes first appeared in Overwatch" Excuse me, but crates existed in TF2 long before that. I remember getting issue#1 crate about 11 years ago.

"I gave out begrudging 'A's" Oof. Sounds like some of my high school teachers talking about some of my friends' papers.

I love the discussions you have with Pleasant Kenobi! I just wish he had a KZfaq channel... 😟

I love going back and rewatching these. Watching a year or two later obviously means they're no longer topical, but god they're still entertaining.

This entire time I sit here and am thinking "wait... what was deluxe edition" only to remember what wizards pulled in that throne of eldraine deluxe edition. Simply put, there is just SOOO many products and stuff like the deluxe edition simply slips through the mind of consumers because there is a bombardment of endless products at various price points.

GREAT episode! Seeing the professor losing his collective “stuff” made the whole video worth it. Plus a great discussion.

"tolaria east, he never stops role playing"

Best option to avoid randomness would be sell the whole sets, 1 of each card for a specific cost, the same for each set (varying by number of cards only), then it would be like any other game, in theory. (obviously not gonna happen, because money from the randomness, it's much easier to sell a lot of cheap products than one more expensive too) And keep boosters for draft.

I think both of them said it more than two or three times: There is only one reason to buy boosters: Draft. Otherwise they are not worth it.

It is gambling and no different than loot boxes in videogames. Tarmogoyf receiving an upgrade because of secondary market value is but one example of Wizards clearly placing a monetary value in the cards we find in booster packs. Sensei's Diving Top is a rare nowadays, and so is Mystical Tutor.

They've already acknowledged the secondary market through using "reprint equity" to determine what cards to reprint, as they do with things like Masters sets, and now secret lairs.

Ahhh the secondary market, or as I like to call it: primary market.

Man prof almost said “the means of production” and I just about pulled out my hammer and sickle

I am currently stockpiling one of every pack released in the Modern era to open on my birthday in August. Is it dumb? Maybe. Will I lose out financially? Absolutely. Will I have the best damn birthday getting to experience the history of the past 17 years in MtG's life? No friggin doubt about it.

Before watching, DUH. Yes it is gambling. A specific kind of gambling to be sure, but its the same concept as "surprise mechanics".

Silly me thought that the opening skits would be put on hold, but that was the best one yet. Actually had me laughing out loud

This was really good. You guys dug deep on this one. I really appreciate Prof's honesty in regards to being hooked on mtg when he 1st started out. (No shame man)

They brand boosters as “draft packs” for a reason

WOTC need to sit down in a room and watch this video, then take a long, good look at themselves in the mirror and really, really think about what they’re doing. Great video guys

Prof, the skits are killing it every time! I don't know who comes up with them but kudos!

Having watched the whole thing, I'm surprised that neither of them really mentioned that the idea that Booster packs facilitate limited formats as they currently exist. The idea of say, draft, is dependent on having a limited pool of cards that you can't predict before hand. While certainly people open packs for many other reasons, I'm surprised they didn't even bring this up during their discussion of why packs getting outlawed as gambling would be bad for the game. But I think it's relevant as a point to show that packs actually serve to create interesting formats and strategic opportunities and don't solely serve as a type of gambling.

Hi Prof! You always have such insightful thoughts on MTG, and every time I see a new video from you I watch it while I go through my collection and build a new deck or just look through my old cards. It's a good feeling to have during this time, and I can't wait to get back to playing paper magic again with my friends

hands down one of my fav podcasts. sooo good! your camaraderie is wonderful :)

Fantastic episode like always. You two have great chemistry and it seems like you both have such fun shooting these. It really shines through:)

There is a reason why the boosters are now called "draft boosters" and it's not to avoid confusion with collector boosters - this way they say "this product we sell is a gameplay experience, not a loot box".

Lmfao this opening skit is opening is gold. Great work guys.

The look on the prof's face when real Vince starts to vent is just pure gold lol

I just got past the intro and felt I had to comment. These intros and videos are literally my favorite thing to watch on KZfaq. Thanks for the awesome content!!

the start of this episode was genuinely funny. Well done! Keep up the good work, always appreciate your videos.

"They'd reprint aggressively to destroy the secondary market. They'd reprint fetchlands at common" Man, don't let Rudy from Alpha Investment watch this. He'll get diarrhea.

Still waiting for the “Sword of-“ Secret Lair for $279

You two expressed pretty much every concern I've had (and expressed myself) for years about WotC, MtG, Arena, loot boxes, gambling, and gaming monetization models perfectly.

This video is extremely important. WotC heeding your advice would improve Magic forever. Please don’t ever give up the fight, Professor

Magic and gambling? Are they finally bringing back ante? Yes! I already have the deck ready.

Hey prof, I was wondering if in next episodes you could explore how WotC suddenly has developed an antagonistic relationship with their enfranchised players. raising the power creep of standard, Modern Horizons, huge stinginess of reprints outside the RL, game changing stuff like companions, killing legacy for modern and now killing modern for pioneer...these are all measures to combat people playing the same old deck for years without (barely) spending money on new cards. It used to be part of the healthy relationship between players and wotc, an unwritten agreement that if you played mtg long enough you would build a collection of cards, and you'd have formats to enjoy them after rotation. that was your reward for being a loyal and faithful customer, having the option of opting out of the standard hamster wheel for some time (or forever) if thats what you wanted. But seems like WotC are trying to change the rules of the game , and force enfranchised players to either get back on the wheel of spending or leave by making increasingly difficult to enjoy older formats without keeping up to date. if you told people that after rotation all their cards are shit and worthless and their decks are gone for good, noone would buy into mtg. the idea of (some of) them remaining relevant and playable in older formats were the carrot at the end of the stick, one that wotc supported for a long time. This days everything is a rotating format on quarterly basis, and worse, old cards get bans so new cards can remain unbanned. isnt what wotc is doing now betraying the very foundations of the game and reneging on their tacit gentlemen's agreement with enfranchised players?

I really love the report you two have with each other. I don't normally like this type of format, though most of my exposure to it is from here and from video about other topics (video games come to mind) and there is just something about the way you speak to each other and by extension us, that makes this work. It is certainly filled with arcane termonology but in a way that is paradoxically welcoming I feel, and just the general tone and mood really shows a level of humility that I feel is lacking elsewere. you both are presenting yourselves as experts with knowledge on the topic without presenting yourself as THE expert if that makes sense and I really appriceate that.

You reminded me of tournament packs. We each used to get one, plus a couple of boosters, and hold "events" in between classes. We even used to "help" unlucky players that ended with sub-par records by allowing them to get more boosters, in what was a "Sealed league" most stores would be doing. Such amazing times.

Alternate title: how the profit motive ruins games

Having my eyes opened to all of this genuinely makes me want to cry

57:05 this is why we love the professor. This podcast is awesome.

By far one of the most interesting video's I have seen in a while. As a pretty casual player I have enjoyed playing at my "kitchen table", as it were, for years. While I enjoy Arena I definitely view it as a more traditional video game than the game I play at the table with friends and family. A very insightful and informative discussion!

57:30 I feel so much better now that some one else has said this... it felt weird hearing such silence from our media personalities about something so obvious as reprints... imconvinced they only really need to make lands cheap as free too... thnx again for your dedication to the game

50:00 I believe the word you’re looking for is extortion.

The openings for these podcasts are the greatest and today's was... the absolute best by far!

I love this episode, this is something that has been on my mind since project 'booster fun' when alarm bells went off. Though I have to ask, where is the discussion for collector boosters! The difference between draft boosters and collector boosters is in the name. Draft boosters are partial defendable since they are for playing with, collector boosters are for.. gambling?

"War glides on the simplest updrafts while peace struggles against hurricane winds. It is the way of the world. It must change."

I'll say this if I could buy cards direct from wizards I would never crack packs again. The only way to "play" the game is to either but packs or buy singles from a secondary market. Card packs are exactly like loot boxes

Great discussion as always. I was recently gifted a Keyforge deck and said "wait....what?" when I found out it only cost $7. That WOTC (Hasbro) is so adamant against proxies while other game systems often allow 3rd party pieces/cards/tokens just goes to show they want no threat to their monopoly. Especially when they are flooding the market with new products while strategically withholding certain pieces to profit off segments of their customer base.

I honestly enjoyed this just as much as when you were both in the same room! Great job!

Booster packs have always walked the find line of being gambling. Not even just with magic, other card games have this problem but I don't see the future in which booster packs will be outlawed

Just Reprint the Damn Cards! Just Reprint the Damn Cards! Just Reprint the Damn Cards! Just Reprint the Damn Cards! Now I want a video where this is all that's in it.

Prof, in the last DTR episode, you asked if we'd be interested in you continuing the show. I commented and said yes, provided it has good quality. I was thinking clear sound and clean video, but you went above and beyond. That intro was MINT! PS: you're the first MTG youtuber I ever subscribed to. You taught me how to make a proper commander deck. Without you're help, I would've never drawn hate from my playgroup. It felt good(:

Great video, definitely think this is an important topic to discuss! I've been playing Magic for around 20 years now and since 5 years back mostly Modern and Limited. I've been quite obsessed with Magic the past years in spite all the things happening to the game during 2019, but Companions and the Secret Layer Fetch Lands were the last straw for me and kind of revealing that 2019 was no exception but probably the new rule both in regards to power creep and monetisation. While fully respecting that WOTC as a company needs to make profit and I personally don't have issues affording cards, needing to monthly adapt constructed decks pared with the excessive price of "a game based on cardboard" just is really annoying and decreases my personal enjoyment of Magic. However, fortunately this brought me to get aware of the great way to play Magic that is Cube, which provides the possibility of "constructing" your own Cube, selecting all things from the period and mechanics you enjoy, while also being unaffected from the ongoing power creep and depending on your Cube the price.

56:50 Prof goes into a rage I that is (nearly) equivalent to the rage I feel every time I think about MTG from an economic stand point. They make money from a total of 1 thing: packs (and Secret Lairs now, but you know... oh yeah, and cosmetics, but, you get it!) what's the best way to make it so that packs start selling like they did back in Alpha? reprint reprint reprint until packs aren't a gamble at all and now everyone goes "Well, okay, 4 bucks 4 bucks!" I love cracking packs, but I always feel very dissapointed in myself when I turn $4 into 30 cents. This would fix that mindset perfectly because I would know that I am burning $4 here most likely, but hey, it's fun as all hell!

>Discussion on whether mtg booster packs is gambling you wot m8, of course it is

that intro got some genuine laughs from me, very well done

This is where I get the majority of my magic content and news from keep up the good work and keep telling the truth no matter how much it might hurt some people

Brian had a brain spark! While under his rock playing Sims XD He's awesome

It's funny you're talking about addiction when I've just uninstalled Magic Arena from all my computers since I've realized I was addicted to it. I didn't like how tilted I got after strings of losses. It was so hard to do it after having invested time and money in the client, but I suppose it was the right thing to do. Maybe I'll come back after a good break. To me magic is better played with friends or in physical events :)

You guys together are just so fantastic, keep it up gents!

Wow, I really enjoyed this entire conversation... That said... Supply vs. demand. If Wizards reprinted the cards, the value would down and people would spend less. If they stay with the current consumer demand (less supply), people spend more. At the end of the day, Wizards is a business. In addition, the secondary market is critical to MTG’s popularity and Wizards’ success. In some ways, Wizards’ support of the secondary market is self serving. But they have had to find creative ways to stay relevant... such a great conversation! Loved this!! Thanks for the brain food!

Would love to have an option to hear it on spotify.

This just in; Hasbro announces mtg packs as "surprise game mechanics"!

This video was amazingly cathartic to watch! It also did a great job of sprinkling some great bits of humor, which is become defining trait of this series. I really hope this game becomes affordable, and this video goes a long way to making that happen. Keep up the great work guys!! #makeuptutorial

Your opening skit made my day especially with the situation now. You guys are awesome. Thumbs up

Here’s my take (I’m just a fan of video games and MTG so take it for what it’s worth). Are booster packs gambling? Yes. Does that mean MTG is morally bankrupt? No. It’s gambling because you are always buying them hoping for that one card you want. It’s not morally bankrupt though because they don’t prevent us from having a thriving secondary market. Most video games definitely prevent us from trading skins and whatever else, forcing us to buy the lootbox to get what we want. That’s what makes it morally bankrupt and makes it very predatory, is when the developer/publisher or the manufacturer of the thing FORCES people down this particularly predatory path to get what we want. For a good example of a game that DOES provide and encourage a secondary market look at Warframe. MTG does the same, as long as they let us do this then they aren’t morally bankrupt. And for people who say predatory micro transactions are fine if they’re cosmetic I encourage you to consider two things. First, if you were buying any other product and this was how the system was set up would you accept that as a fair and worthwhile way to do business? And second I encourage you to watch this video by Favyn here on YT kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fpaRgrxlqt6Udps.html it explains why and how micro transactions cheeped games by removing the options to better the game with customization and cosmetics.

From the perspective of someone who just opens packs during draft and prerelease, and as a budget player, cracking packs being gambling is a matter of intent and expectation. Most of the cards I want from a set are the spicy uncommons. Since I'm a budget player I don't really get beat up if I don't open them in a pack because chances are they'll be $0.75 at the most for me to pick up a few days down the road from prerelease, or even later that night if I'm drafting. Cracking assets $25 Mythic is gravy for someone like me. If people who open booster boxes for Value I think in this respect across your booster box game videos are closest to the idea of packs being gambling. Well done discussion guys! Usually I just lurk, but I had opinions and thought I'd share.

this was an absolutely great conversation all way through

Man, that cinematic editing is just awesome!

Ehh, this discussion really isn't getting anywhere. Packs are gambling, there's no way around it, we just don't want to admit it because we like the game.

Definitely skipped my share of lunches in high school so I could get boosters at the nearby mall.

Thank you Professor and Vince! Luv the discussion!

I loved the Pulp Fiction style of this video. Show Vince’s death, then flashback to a time before he died to keep the audience guessing. I’ll miss him.

I can almost hear Spice8rack in the background screaming “down with the bourgeoisie” when they got into the anti-capitalism talk! Loved this episode guys and keep up the podcast!

Prof, the word you're looking for fifty minutes in is 'avaricious.' Also, they did it because they knew that people would buy both the Mythic Edition and then just as many boosters looking for regular fetches.

This was probably one of y'all's best videos ever. Both you guys are really accurately pointing out how at risk the game is from what WOTC is doing.

I appreciate this conversation. It's good to have.

Magic The Gathering Secret Lair: Acknowledging the Secondary Market featuring the Power 9

This is the first time I heard your real name. Honestly, it was kind of jarring to here Vince call you Brian. I'm still gonna call you Professor though.

I must say that I havent finished an episode of dies to removal all the way thru till now nailed boys absolutley loved this episode.

Every one of the intros for this podcast are solid gold.

"Bloody Tories 😂

"JUST REPRINT THE GOD DAMN CARDS!!!" ❤️ 🙌 😭 🤷

That Prius confession is amazing! No worries Prof! You wanted a Pruis, and you bought a Prius. Now drive around and flex in that thing!

Wow. You had a lot of emotion in this video. Mad respect. On a sise note: this game is 100% gambling now. Happy 2020.