I had a thought regarding the conversation about needing to lose battles near the beginning. I wonder if this is based at all on RJ’s experience in Vietnam. The U.S. doesn’t lose battles, but it still lost the war. Rand has lots of battle victories, but he isn’t winning the war against the shadow, because the shadow’s victory conditions aren’t about battles. The shadow needs the world to fracture, for mistrust, hatred, and chaos to infect everything. Rand needs to somehow turn the tide of the battle in the People’s hearts. Hell, in his own heart. But in that, he keeps failing.

**NO SPOILERS, just explicit information on the timeframe of the books you've read.** When you talked about how long it's been in the books I was curious so I went and worked out how long each book is (up to A Crown of Swords) and how much time between (according to dates we get I believe from the Companion). I just did the difference between the two dates, so they may be off by 1 depending how you want to count it. So again, no spoilers just timeline of the books already read. Eye of the World: Takes place over 49 days. The Great Hunt: Begins 29 days later and takes place over 170 days The Dragon Reborn: Begins 106 days later and takes place over 68 days. The Shadow Rising: Begins 16 days later and takes place over 27 days. The Fires of Heaven: Begins 33 Days later and takes place over 49 days. The Lord of Chaos: Begins 37 days later and takes place over 65 days. A Crown of Swords: Begins the same day (0 days later) and takes place over 10 days. From the beginning to the Eye of the World to the end of A Crown of Swords is 659 days or 1 year 294 days.

I appreciate how quickly you crack down on Min slander.

I'm so glad you pointed out Elayne's reaction when she realized Mat was being serious about what was happening with Tylin. That made me like her character so much more then I had before.

2:00:14 - The Sea Folk are from islands to the south of Randland simply called The Sea Folk Isles. Their main island, Tremalking, is where the female Choedan Kal is, the huge Sa'Angreal which Rand has Ter'Angreal that link to them.

Rand loses when he gets put in a box and beaten daily. He does not lose the battle afterward. But, the box is a loss and has consequences. If you doubt, read pre-box Rand and post-box Rand scenes side-by-side. There are hard consequences for his mental stability. He failed to play the Aes Sedai political game.

Hot Take 🔥 the reason the ending of this book feels kind of off kilter and frantic (at least with Rand) is because of Rand's descent into madness. I will also argue that it has become a literal defence mechanism for Nynaeve to intentionally keep herself in a state of anger in order to channel and protect herself. It was only in a moment of intense vulnerability that she was able to let go and surrender. So it will be really interesting to see if or how she develops from here.

I agree with your assessment that it is a very daunting series to finish. I devoured books 1-7 in High School / undergrad. That's when the published books finished - and when the next book came out, I didn't have time to reread the whole series to remind myself what had happened, and then ... life happened. I didn't actually finish the series until a few years ago, when rumours of a show were making the rounds, and I was driving 30-45 minutes to work every day - so (using Audible lol) I re-"read" the whole series, and finally finished it. It's a big commitment! I'm very glad I did, and the conclusion is very satisfying, so hang in there! Love hearing your perspectives on things.

My take on how underpowered the Forsaken are… Forsaken #1: Hey guys! You want to do something really evil? How about one of us sneaks into Salad Bar, and then gets a menial job working for Egwene so you can give her headaches? Other Forsaken: Yeah! Wow!! Great idea! That will help get Tarmon Gaiden started.

I view it as the Forsaken don't lose to Rand... They're defeated by Lews Therin. Rand has even "thought" that he doesn't really know what he is doing sometimes... he just does it. That's Lews Therin "taking over" since he knows them best.

I don't think it is actually possible for Rand to actually lose a 1 v 1 fight against the foresaken. He is literally the strongest channeler in the world, plus he has Lews Therin's knowledge and skill. It wouldn't make any sense in terms of narrative or power scaling for him to lose a straight fight. The only time he lost (box) was because of deception. You simply cannot make the Dragon lose and make it feel realistic/sensible at least not without use of underhanded means. He will always have some trick up his sleeve or sheer force of the Power to win. That's why the losses are personal like his mental health, the constant pain, losing women in his life etc. That is also the way the DO plans to win.

Think about how much time Lan spends on footwork, that man has to be the best ass.

A possible spoiler for where Asmodean's killer has still not been revealed: The very first thing Brandon Sanderson said after entering Robert Jordan's Home and Harriet asking if she could get him anything was "Who killed Asmodean?"

Clarus mentioned getting fancy Wheel of Time books one day I just wanted to tell her to look up the Juniper Wheel of Time Books

The pattern itself is pushing Rand to success, as seen with him literally feeling it working for him after dealing with the sea-folk. Since the Pattern is running interference on anything related to Rand, you would need a strong channeler capable of stepping outside the Pattern to avoid its interference, and from what we've read so far it seems the only one capable of doing so is the Dark One himself. The Forsaken basically have their hands tied until they break the rest of the seals. Even then, it seems even the Dark One isn't completely safe from the Pattern as he was sealed by Lews Therin and a gaggle of male channeler with his only recourse being a counterstroke to instill insanity in his jailers. If Lews was not one of the people who sealed the Dark One, I highly doubt it would have happened at all.

Rand's entire character arc is one of loss. It's what makes some moments in the future really special.

I think New Spring works best between books 11 and 12. It helps the transition from Jordan to Sanderson's voice be less noticeable because the book itself has it's own distinct tone.

Mat is T'Varen. Beating Gawen and Galad is related to that. Mat is good, but to beat both is a magical thing.

When Nerdy said he is working so hard to buy a house, I felt the same pain. Same struggles here in Oz. Hope you attain your dream. Book club is also the highlight of my week 😍

Another classic episode of book club! So glad this show/series was the catalyst to help you both realize your dreams. It’s so enjoyable watching you grow this channel

CADSUANE SUCKS - because that's her job. The Nerdy Wordy Book Club brings me joy.

Lots of people pointing to losses that, to me, fall more accurately into the “suffering” category. My take on Nerdy’s point was “Rand losing a battle where one or more primary or secondary characters dies”. Sure, other main characters have experienced losses, such as Perrin’s family, but the losses don’t stem from a failure of Rand to win in a particular situation.

I thought it was a hard magic system, since they are basically using elements of nature, and combining/manipulating them to perform wonders. Limitations are set that death cannot be healed, but you can animate a body with weaves of the One Power. There are things that the saidin is stronger with, and things saidar is stronger with, but when used together, maximum potential is possible.

Gawyn did beat Hamar who was a blade master, BUT Hamar was not only a master swordsman, he knew the consequences for the relationship between the Tower and Andor had he killed THE QUEEN'S SON Gawyn's a blademaster by politics, not skill

Everyone who isn't balefired is reborn repeatedly, but Rand is the first and only specifically prophesied individual to be reborn. Also, Perrin suffers a defeat when he is ambushed by trollocs in the woods after talking with Luc. Rand suffers (literally) a defeat when he is placed in the chest. I think Mat is the god-tier character of the series, but I still love the character for his perspective and reasoning of book events.

You don't need "Losses" to make a story or character interesting. You need conflict. They are not the same thing. Rand has a lot of losses depending how you look at it. Just because he hasn't been curbstomped by a Forsaken yet doesn't mean he isn't in danger or that the Forsaken aren't a problem in this world. The perspective matters quite a bit. That being said, the criticism about how the Forsaken up to this point have been handled is certainly valid. At times the encounters feel rushed and tacked onto the end of the story. Taken as individual instances this would be problematic. As instruments in a much larger story, they make sense. Lastly I'll say the Forsaken aren't really "Bosses". They're mini bosses. Dangerous, problematic and certainly cannot be ignored. But they arent the end all. They are the fodder used to prepare the hero.

To be fair, losing Rand's battles means being erased from the timeline.

I am so impressed you guys. It's such great progress, and you are doing this whole thing so well!

Robert Jordan was the author but his wife was the editor. Lol or the descriptions of the clothing. Harriet had a lot of influence in the writing

Everyone does get reborn in Wheel of Time. It is like Buddhism reincarnation is just a thing. Remembering/having any knowledge of your past life is a specific unique thing that only a few have thought (Heroes of the Horn don't usually have it, Brigitte remembers because she was pulled from TAR rather than being born normally, Rand remember, Mat is weird (even early on in book one he said some words in the Old Tongue, thought I am pretty sure Robert Jordan said that his memories were not his past lives but came from the 'Finn)).

I really hate this typical fallacy. "This guy lost to that guy once so he's a worse fighter." Thst's not how that works. A fighting master can lose a fight to a child if said child takes them unawares. Galad and Gawyn losing a bout against a quarterstaff fighter who they do not take seriously during said fight proves nothing but the fact you need to be careful in any fight.

RIP in peace Ken

Irish countryside you can get a decent, reasonably new, 4 bed house for ~€250k - €350k depending how far from the city you will live (and most areas now have reasonable broadband). Northern Ireland you're probably paying a bit more (or about the same but in Sterling).

Matts violation is a loss

Clarus's face listening to Nerdy's Audible plug....🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

"Rand should take an L" The man was put in a box and tortured for days. The fact that he was eventually freed doesn't change the fact that he took a pretty big L right there.

When you have finished WOT, hope you do another book series to keep book club going every Friday 😃

Just got to you answering my (cat's) question in the replay. Thanks for the interesting replies. I'd love it if you could add a "little things" section to every end-of-book stream. If need be, I'll submit the question every time ;) My favorite detail outside of foreshadowing is where Lan repeats Egwene's instructions and then goes "See? I listen!". Only, he doesn't repeat the part about telling Nynaeve that he will be "transferred" to her, since he isn't planning on telling her.

I think the 2 of you could play Bael the clan chief and Melaine the wise one. Bael is tall and Melaine has red hair and they're secondary characters that would fit with what you both are describing.

Im actually really looking forward to path of daggers with you guys. If you dont agree that theres Ls in that book i give up 😂

Would Rand have been able to get loose without Therin?😂

Don't forget to check out the Big White Book of Bad Art, aka "The World of the Wheel of Time"! It was released right around this point in the books and contains a ton of lore and info that may answer a lot of your questions and explain reasoning behind a lot of the lore and history up to this point

For Dumais wells, Rafe has said he had to really fight to keep it in.

The Black Hills are south of the borderlands, in the unclaimed area not ruled by any monarch, though villages have mayors and councils. You'll see Ethenielle in New Spring too. Unsurprisingly, she has a large bosom. ;-)

I totally agree with you about Gawyn and Gallad Nerdy but Gawyn is even lower because Gallad is a better sword fighter than Gawyn! Where those two are concerned everyone is always saying something about Gallad being better!

Nerdy made a prediction that was absolutely right, and I IWSH i knew.

At some point, when you finish WoT on the book club (as depressing as it will be), I hope you consider reading The Faithful and The Fallen by John Gwynne. The books are some of my favorite, the series is much shorter than WoT, and Gwynne is an amazing author and person. Either way, long love the Nerdy Wordy Book Club!

You guys have to re read Book2 for sure. Keeping it the last one after reading crown of swords is beyond me

I think those people listing the named characters that died were responding to your statement "No one named dies"

The thing about Halima and binary gender in WoT is that.... it's not a commentary on gender very much at all. The fact Halima is a man in a woman's body would lean into the idea that a person CAN feel uncomfortable with their physical manifestation if it does not match their internal character. Pretty progressive there. A lot of "stuff" on gender irl, especially in the last few years, has been about breaking down norms... but what does WoT do? Can ANYONE say that masculinity and femininity are uniform and universal in Randland? Nope. Culture plays a SIGNIFICANT role. That would suggest that the way we perform our identity is a social construct. Pretty progressive there imo. Masculinity and femininity *existing* as concepts and as broad trends that apply to biological sex is not unreasonable or unacceptable. I'd argue that it's reality and that if it wasn't there wouldn't BE any issues with identity crises. The "weirdness" would stem from, imo, a VERY COMMON misunderstanding. That biology and identity are and have to be the same. People rejecting biology and twisting justifications for why "man" and "woman" are not real are just silly. Anyone with dysmorphia SHOULD be able to describe how a LARGE part of the problem is not being accepted as who ("what") they are. And the solution some seem to have is to... refuse to accept who most people are to make it equal? Kinda fucked up if you ask me. But I know I'm pushing into "unpopular opinion" when I raise my eyebrow at NB people and ask what's the point. Nobody is enforcing rigid gender roles in the west for their to be much point in "rejecting" the social constructions by which people express their identity. A straight man can wear makeup, high heels and a skirt and still be a straight man. The fact he'll face SOME social censure is ridiculous and not a good thing... but it doesn't make him "nb" unless you SERIOUSLY buy into the idea that gender/sex is an extremely rigid set of instructions that can not be deviated from. (note: this is not suggesting people shouldn't be free to identify however they wish and have that respected. I just think it's a lot less "progressive" than people believe it to be and rather more reactionary and buying *heavily* into tradcon thinking rather than just rejecting such a debate as pointless and stupid. A person is ALWAYS more than their genitals)

I hope you'll feel better soon. All the best!

We have reached the point in the series where the end of the book is actually the prologue of the next book ..lol... Houston TX has 4 area codes hehehe

My take on the forsaken being bad at things: 1) Basically, we're picking off the weak/stupid ones now, the ones that survive will be next level tough. 2) The age of legends was at peace for most of it's time, right up to when they f'd up and cracked open the dark one's prison; and the war of power lasted less than a generation and was fought with tech and the power. So Bashire & Matt and such have 3 thousand years of near constant warfare to base their tactics and strategy on.

Hi guys, #11 is the shit! Also I really love New Spring.

One of you just predicted the major future events of one or more characters! So exciting! You said so much I don’t think you’ll narrow it down so this isn’t a spoiler… just getting you thinking!

Nerdy could be one of the boys then (in the series, who fight the super)

Just a reminder that we do airport pickups and tours if you come down to New Zealand! And there's still A LOT being filmed here, despite Rings of Power buggering off.

I like a lot of yalls takes and everyone reads things in their own way and can have their own opinions but i really do not get the whole we need more loses thing. Just to list a few for the main characters, Perrin gets ambushed and loses a bunch of people he grew up with right after losing his family, egwene gets captured so much yall rightly make a joke out of it. Rand spends a book getting tortured after being captured, has two unhealing wounds in his side that leave him in constant agony and was bonded against his will. Rand can not lose much harder without dying and ending the books and even his wins leave the world more divided and him closer to madness which is explicitly what the dark one wants to happen. looking at dumai's wells as an example did rand technically win the battle? yeah he did, but a bunch of people that are not on the dark ones side killed each other and rand is more unstable and mistrustful of all Aes Sedai

They have underwear, they call it "small clothes"

Still love that shirt Nerdy.

Cheering for you guy on the housing fund. 🏠

Just 30min in and there is so much I'd love to elaborate on, where you are wrong or where you are right, but that could hint at spoilers for the last book.. I feel like a kid at Christmas waiting for them to finish the last book so I can just blurt out all the stuff they were right or wrong about =D EDIT: Along with a re-watch of the show and a re-read some point in the future, fans should tally your speculations into a "Got it Right" vs "Got it wrong" and see who won!

Hey guys! Can anyone direct me to a link for their merch? I know they post it in live chat, but is there another link?

God yes, cut both the Circus and the Stedding. I love Egwene but... the Circus is just tedious, and the Stedding is such a sidenote.

Hi Guus When IS today's show?

Claroos is right. Appalacians are not mountains. They are big hills.

All the Shadowspawn are Aginors kids. We have heard that second hand from the Foresaken a couple of times at this point.

Rewatching this episode because no book club yesterday? :'(

watch first and last ep of Person of interest - you will be probably very surprised :)

Nerdy is right. Cadsuane sucks. I've read through the entire series at least 4 or 5 times, and Cadsuane has never grown on me. I still despise her. But, that said, I think a certain segment of readers is kind of meant to hate her and always will.

Half way there! 🥳

logain ablar

I know the nerd homework feeling. I wouldn't have picked up Critical Role if i hadn't joined right at their current campaign's start. I'll never try to watch the first two campaigns.

im his champion

I hope there's a big "JK" on the back of Nerdy's shirt.

LISTEN to your wives.

rand has taken TONS of L's in the story so far, Rands story so far is one of constantly failing

Don't know why I can never use the Live Chat on your streams. For this reason I never poke or or subscribe. Maybe if I could participate but since I can't... No likes, no subscribe.

Rand was mad From page one of the Epix series. Lol Lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol get out of my head. Lol

Ireland is NOT the UK!! Puhlease... You're Canadian, don't make American mistakes ;)

I think Nerdy is way behind in theories you've seen the answer to, but i think hes winning the long game. Really trying not to spoil anything.