@@invictusss095 I’m actually going to end up making a video about this. A March….or even a murder ball doesn’t necessarily need a debuff. The goal is to wipe out the opponent before they wipe you out. Whatever accomplishes that the best should be what’s used.

Actually an eye opener when you say it like. Well brought up mam

Yeah 1vs1 vs field fight is very different. If you want to win 1vs1 different pairing work for 1vs1 while other good results in field fight

The battle simulator has been rather spot on since it came out. It gives a solid reference which has never been off for me. I will say that we don’t know the whole talent of the smite tree so I’m holding off with testing until we have full talents in the tree

Him as a standalone commander is good but not amazing. What makes that march amazing will be the synergy he brings. And you are right....it'll be a "selfish" march even if you run WW primary and utilize the rage debuff to a degree. But the damage output and trades of this march will be so much better than the runner up due to the smite synergy that I think we're almost forced to invest in him and run him with LC

@68Busdriver But you are aware that Scipio's debuff enhances all your other marches, so William Wallace doesn't need to outperform Scipio. He needs to outperform Scipio plus the benefits he brings to the other four marches, and I'm 99% sure he can't.

@@neikyy2564 how is WW’s kit elevating LC’s kit compared to Scipio? How much does LC’s kit elevate WW compared to Scipio? Scipio is better but the smite synergy is a whole different story. Now this is all theorycrafting until we get to see it in action but I lean the other way. On top of that, we haven’t seen the rage reduction in action. I’m actually highly confident that the WW March will be better than the scipio March.

@68Busdriver Isolated maybe, but in a 4+ march ball, I'm not sure William's kit is not that great. He only boosts damage, and the rage reduction will probably be irrelevant since the march you are targeting gets hit by multiple of your marches, so he gets extra rage. So he fires his skill before your marches, so all the debuffs and buffs get applied. Then he gets hit by 10 active skills after that. It will be so weak that its damage is pretty much meaningless. So if you can't prevent that march from firing again before it's sad-faced, your rage debuff is meaningless. I agree that there are people out there who think Gorgo/LC is the best march in the game from a trades perspective, but in ROK you just can't ignore that you have multiple marches and William does next to nothing for your other marches while Scipio brings the best stat debuff in the game for your other marches to benefit from. I'm not even arguing the fact that if you send out one march and only care for trades that WE LC will be a stronger march, but that use case doesn't exist for 95% of players. I also agree that he's mandatory if you run 2 infantry marches, but if you are running 3+ marches and only one infantry march, I'm pretty sure the elevation of Scipio to all of these commanders is not comparable to the damage bonus you get from William, which only affects your LC.

@@neikyy2564 rage reduction doesn’t work that way. It’s applied after the rage gain up to the rage cap is calculated. So all that rage a march gains is still capped at 220 and then the reduction is applied after. You are arguing that scipio’s debuff and his aoe will offset the smite synergy of WW with LC. Maybe…. But I’m strongly leaning towards no. - In a big murder ball situation like you are talking about, how many scipios are out there doing the same health debuff that doesn’t stack? If there’s quite a bit, the value of that debuff goes down dramatically since you are way more likely to duplicate the debuff. - Also, just out of curiosity, how much do you think a 30% health debuff translates to as far as all damage taken? That would actually help do the calculations. - If we’ve learned anything over the last 2 generations of commanders it’s that skill damage increase is necessary for a March to be good. It’s the main reason why Joan/William doesn’t work and Guan/Scip feels like it’s lagging behind the other meta marches. The damage factor and synergy is there, but it’s just not increasing skill damage enough to keep up with the latest and greatest. The exception to that has been smite damage. LC seems to pair with anyone and still do great. You now have a smite commander who actually synergizes with LC in the open field….id take that - scipio’s AOE hitting 3 targets with a 10% skill damage increase (1400x3)1.1 is 4,620 skill damage to 3 targets. WW’s active skill 2,400 with 20% normal damage and 10% smite increase (2,400)1.3 is 3,120 to 1 target. I talked about this in my smite vs skill damage video. I would probably take the 3,120 smite dmg to one target over the 4,620 skill damage divided across 3 targets by itself. Now you factor in that the white damage of the WW march is increased by 10% and LC’s active skill can be increased by an additional 60%….i think it’s a no brainer. - In my video about my latest kvk stats I showed the reports manager which tracks every report I had during that kvk and compared it. The amount of damage output my LC/Alex was putting out was about 60% more than the next best March (ZL/Hermann). I think it’s reasonable to expect the WW March to outperform that by at least 30%.

fax

@@CancerCleric nice. How many infantry marches are you running?

@68Busdriver I will probably do 4 field and one garrison for z5 in a few weeks. Last z5 I started with 5 but dropped to 4 pretty quickly. And then that 4 became a 3 during the next z7. But now with WW, I think I can swing 4 for all of kvk

@@68Busdriver I ran Alex/CJ for the longest time. CJ is not meta, but he still helped me slaughter people. 30m kills on him, albeit he is a somewhat older commander. But yeah since pairing LC/Alex, I really don't want to break that apart yet. Alex is still so useful on the field.

@@CancerCleric that’s how I feel about LC/Alex but I think you’ll be forced to do LC/WW because they maximize each other and you’ll have to try to find combinations to make the other 2 or 3 marches work

@@abdirazakovaskar LC for sure. Expertise him. You can run epic Joan behind him and that March would work

@@Osiris-HT no it’s the same dmg factor for all the targets. The 5th is only a 5% decrease so for example when ZL hits 5 targets it’ll be 15+15+15+5 for a total of 50% decrease. Or 1,000 damage factor to 5 targets

@@68Busdriver ok good

@@0_Frosty_0 that is good and definitely usable. In the recent artifact kvk, I ran Scipio/YSG and that march traded very very well

@@dorianchoum1238 for 3….. I feel you almost have to run LC/Alex Guan/Scip Gorgo/WW

@@hwiider Depends how many GH you have. First I would run ZL primary in combo. I think the upgrade from Boudica to Hermann is bigger than the upgrade to WW. The challenge for you is that right after WW comes out Archers are on deck. If you have no GH, I’d probably just save and wait. If you have like 400 or more, I’d probably go WW and then wait to see what the new archer is before making a decision

@@user-ie2zf7mc3q yes in this scenario skip WW. Get Hermann to 5551 then ZL to 5551 first. Honestly, it might not be a bad idea to skip the current Cavs and get ahead on GH so you are ready for the next cycle

Exactly what i had in mind. Thank you!

@@captainloopy8919 no. I would get Hermann to 5551 first, then expertise ZL. From there you can decide what you do. For equipment get the DB chest first for archer

@@KnightErrant-hc5sk we’ll have to see when it’s actually in the game. But counter point to that…LC is doing at least 20% more smite damage, and all the white damage including LC’s expertise, and the other 300 dmg instant proc are getting at least a 10 to 20% boost. And because of the nature of smite compared to skill damage, what is a 20% increase in smite damage the equivalent to in skill damage?

Yep have to wait and see. I think it likely that WW will trade somewhat better as a march. Just doubt your ball as a team will be as good missing the only health debuff most of us have. 🤷‍♂️

@@KnightErrant-hc5sk I mentioned this to someone else. How much extra damage do you think a march takes when it has a 30% health debuff? Without that number…..how does someone make the calculation? I know what I think it does to a March…. But I’ve never seen someone make a video about it or do the calculations. I wonder…. 1. Do ppl even consider it as extra dmg taken….or they just want to call it a good debuff and leave it at that. 2. If they do consider it as extra dmg taken.. how much do they think it is?

@@gambittv3463 Mehmed for regular, YSG for artifact. Alex is not worth it now since he only pairs really well with LC…and they released a commander that pairs extremely well LC only

@@nikkeinismo2669 For this particular March I think the kvk items will be the best because it also has alot of March speed but in general I think the 4pc with eternal night and hope cloak will be the best for most infantry. If you already have the 4pc for infantry you should work on archer stuff instead of kvk items for infantry

I was thinking of you video about output vs efficiency. I need a refresher. Thanks for these videos!!!

@@syedhani3354 do you have an archer to pair with Hermann?

@@68Busdriver yes I have ZL

@@syedhani3354then go with Herman first since you don’t need invest into 2 comms.

@@Iamyours410 I think Honda is better…. Even if Mehmed is slightly better I would still save the relic for something else

@@Novaa2341 in this scenario, Hermann to 5551 first then max WW. I don’t think WW is much better than Alex until you expertise him….. because every one of his skills is important. Ironically now I think his expertise is his weakest skill and it’s still pretty good

@@68Busdriver Thanks man, will do

@@Flo-uk6lz yes but I’d recommend expertising both of them before you move on to a second March

@@marcosgabriel1716 run ZL/Boudica in that order and it’ll do much better

@@68Busdriver ok,ty🫡

@@PrimMouse you’ll be fine. Scipio is still really good

@@ragingomen2248 oh I get it trust me. My wish is that Alex with the double museum is now a slight upgrade over Guan/Scip and I can run that as my second March

@@MatiasZarzar it would work. But I think missing out on LC/WW is a big deal

@@Thought_it_up if I had to split up WW from LC, I’d try him with scipio first

@@benso9235 what other commanders do you have that can pair with LC? Spend level? And how many marches do you have/want to run?

@@68Busdriver Just got VIP14, only have 1k GH because I wasted on YSG, only want to run 1 inf march with decent equip, mid formation and low to mid spender; no good pairs for LC. I could save my GH for another wheel but I feel like if I run Sun Tzu LC I will get absolutely destroyed and I want to have a bit of fun this KVK P.S. I agree with you that LC/WW might outperform by quite a bit I think a lot of content creators and players underestimate the smite damage that he brings

Scipio should pair with WW or Guan Scipio, Scipio/Alex is not good as other pair

@maxxedison7980 as a single march, you may be right. But as a support march, I personally think it has more to offer the rest of the mb. It just depends on what you want to do. Silence is nice, but 30% damage taken on up to 3 enemy marches plus shields is awesome for the mb, and then making scipio immune to all damage reducing buffs for a little more tankiness really isn't terrible. If you include alex to your mb somewhere that makes sense, it's just gonna make the rest of your marches that much better. Edit: this is assuming you keep LC/WW as a pair, which just makes sense considering all the synergy.

@@ethanronen9641 yes

I have 900 gold heads

@@davidw.5185 I think so.

Been saving gold heads after herman came out 2 commander cycles I skipped and still about a month till WW. But artifact kvk got a lot more interesting for using daddy Scipio

if you have liu/alex guan scip. why would you need to bench scip? just replace alex with ww

@@sipz1221 did you watch the video?

@@Novaa2341 haha wow

My archer march have only purp equips

@@stringofbeans1244 get Hermann to 5511 and run him with ZL. You’ll need legendary chest though.

@@68Busdriver still crafting legendary boots and accessories for nevsky. I have to see ZL/Hermann on my next kvk and maybe they're next in line for my legendary equips. Thanks mr bus driver for convincing me to skip WW 😂

@@stringofbeans1244 you have too many things to work on and already 2 inf in a decent place

@@68Busdriver i just want a 2 inf, 1 cav and 1 arch rally and im satisfied for life

@@CHOOI566 exactly…. This is a projections until we see it in action

@@khaledsaif7594 guan/scip is way better than Boudica/ysg

@@davydespiere4712 let’s say LC/WW is 15% better than LC/Scipio……is the 690 GH worth it for that improvement? That would be the thought process for me. And in your case even in an artifact kvk you’d still wouldn’t have a natural spot for Scipio based on those 5 Marches if you invested in WW. I personally would do it because I feel it’s important to be able to run the best March in the game but I can also see the rationale for the skip there

@@bendikroaldsletten8892 hmmm I’ve avoided it because I feel like everyone has done them

@@bendikroaldsletten8892 expertise. All of his skills add to his kit. His 4th skill in particular is actually way better than I originally thought

@@68Busdriver so if im comming into soc with 1200 gold heads and expertised mina i should expertise lc and invest everything on ww

@@dapooramericanhomesteadfar7192 yeah if you have Guan or Alex…pair with scipio, if you don’t…either skip WW or you bench scipio and potentially move him somewhere else as a secondary in artifact kvks. WW can also come out and that pair doesn’t do as well as we thought….. then easy skip