Right on! People keep tempting me to go 170 fork!

Even at 160 it didnt feel composed?

@@KurtRWalker it was better then stock at 160/160 for sure. I really like the topaz but at speed in the chunk it got of control quickly. I admit it could be my skill but wasn’t handling it well. 170/160 with coil is as smooth as can be.

@@LeoScarboroughMTB Is it 170/160 in the mullet configuration still?

Right on! I'm loving mine too.

I was tempted to go with a 170 fork, but I thought that might be pushing it. I like the 160/160 mullet quite a bit more than the 140/140 29er for the trails I've been riding.

Ya, I agree. Transition's new one is interesting.

I hear you. Lucky to be able to ride year round here.

I am riding with the same setup, but 150 up front and havent added the 160 air spring. How is the Dpx2 for you and how many hours did you get in before it started cavitating ?

@@KurtRWalker I just took it in for a rebuild. First one since I got it. Haven't ridden it yet.

I LOVE how it rides with mods.

Oh, I'm no bike mechanic AT ALL. I did some of the work, but got help with some of the more complex updates. Simply moving to a mullet without changing the fork & shock will alter the geo of the bike so be mindful there.

Ya, if I was buying brand new today, I'd go with the Wild (or maybe that new Transition if I I wanted one bike for everything--the removable battery for shuttles & park days is pretty intriguing).

@@IDoBlues totally! The 2020 to 2022 wild fs is the perfect split between full enduro and full trail. its truly the perfect all around bike! The new Wild is significantly more enduro, but is gonna be one hell of a bike. Cant wait for them to ship! Cheers!

@@DorDor400 Wish the new wild was mullet, love mullet

@@dft1 the ergos would be so intense with a mullet set up on the new wild. The chain stay is way shorter now so itll be more playful regardless I have a carbon mullet 2022 wild ltd and its a blast though!

@@DorDor400 it wouldnt be too low? would you have to change any links or anything for mullet?

Ya, I wish the e-storia would have worked out.

Honestly, I'm not sure. Maybe? You'll need to deep dive that math. The mullet was key to get the geo I wanted, but with the right setup of fork, shock & bushing offset, I don't see why you can't go full 29er.

The bike went slacker overall. HTA went from 66 degrees to about 64 degrees. The STA went from 77 to 75.5 degrees. I'm a full convert to the mullet. Love it on both my Rise and Dreadnought.

I'm not sure if that would work to be honest. Maybe?

Ya, I'm a lightweight @ 140-150. I really notice the lower weight of the Rise compared to the heavier ones I've tried. Feels closer to my regular enduro bike than a full-powered ebike.

The Occam looks killer!

The bike can shred the downs. The rider....well....

Mullets definitely have a different feel than full 29ers. I prefer mullets (both my bikes are now mx). The EXT coil is pretty sweet. I think coils in general have a bit more of a plusher feel which I like. If you like a poppier feeling bike, an air shock is probably the best choice.

Awesome! Let me know how it goes if you go 170 with a mullet. I really do like the feel of mullets--both on my Rise and my Dreadnought. I notice it most in berms.

Been thinking about a Topaz for longer service intervals on my m10 carbon, 150/140, I have not added the 160 air spring I have yet for the 36 either. Not sure I will go longer on the rear shock. I guess we will see once I add more travel to the front first. I ride in the nasty steep deserts of Vegas and SW.

@@KurtRWalker I tried 160f/140r first, 64.5 HA. Really liked the geo for chunky natural "trailduro" trails, but 140 rear with the DPS on my M20 felt undergunned. The Topaz is much smooter and very adjustable, and 160 helps a lot. 29 rear and two offset bushings is fine but I really liked it slightly slacker, hence 27.5 rear or 170 front as next step. There is also 210x57.5 version of the Topaz T3 gen 1, should give just under 150 rear travel without changing geo and could be really good.

@@petterastrom4322 Where do you ride? I ride pretty nasty stuff in the desert: Utah, AZ, Vegas and rarely feel under gunned and I am still at 150/140, but I am a bit crazy too lol. I will move to 160 but wasnt sure if I will go 160 on the back.

@@KurtRWalker You probably ride bigger stuff than I, I ride mostly pretty chunky natural trails, similar to US east cost maybe. Not much flow or man-made trails, although some bike park. I think moving from the 34 and DPS on my M20 to the Lyrik and DVO was a big part of it, they felt much more capable. But the extra travel helps too, I normally use about 150 of it. It really helps me to push and develop, but a better rider is probably fine with 140 quality suspension for what I ride. I went 160 front first and really liked the 64.5 HA, but then wanted to try 160 rear too.

Ya, I've heard of a few people going with a 170mm fork & a rear 29er. They did boost the rear shock. Check out this vid -> kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gbuXhZV-2ZyWpo0.html

Yes, there is a rattle noise on the EP8 on the rough sections of the descents. I don't really notice it though in the moment--I notice it more on my video clips. No rattle on the climbs (pretty quiet motor in general). Q factor? Are you trying to make me revisit highschool physics? (I have no idea if the Q factor of the 5Dev cranks are more or less than Shimano cranks.)

Yes. That's a good point. It does hit it's limiter earlier. But I don't notice it out on the trails. I don't ride full speed on the climbs, and I'm most interested in gravity descents. And oh ya, I'm sure I'm offside on the warranty on the frame and the EXT shock on this one. ....but I'm not sure how much warranty I had left....it's 2-years old already.

You could bump it to 160mm and keep the 29er, but it would have a different geo.

I find coils provide better traction.

Here I am back again 😅 Im riding the 2021 M-Team Rise in size L. I'm 185cm tall and weigh only 62-65kg. I guess I did way too much research until now and ended up somewhat confused and unsure what would be best for me. So now I'm trying my luck asking for your advice and maybe I'm lucky enough getting an answer from you 🥲 I already like how my rise rides but I really want to enduro it with a 160 or even 170mm fox 36 fork + 160mm shock. Do I have to mullet it to make it work? I'm kinda scared about the reduced bb height and resulting pedal strikes from it. Also the shorter reach intimidates since I already had to switch out the 50mm stock stem to 65mm because for my height it felt too short... I'd appreciate any advice from you ALOT! Sending out some love for you and your family 🙂♥️

@@InfectAion I'm actually not sure if you keep the 140mm rear and increase the fork to 160 if you have to mullet it. I think there are some videos out there of guys who did in fact do that. I do know, that to keep the geo reasonable, if you want to up the fork to 160 and the rear travel to 160, you do need to switch to a mullet (and use an offset bushing on the shock).

My guess is no. But I'm not 100% sure.

I was wondering when they'd release one. Makes so much sense. I even emailed them when I was working on this conversion asking if they had one in the works (they didn't at the time). I wonder if anyone has played around with that to then concert it to a mullet with an overfork to slacken it?

My guess is it would be fine considering the EXT Arma and Fox DHX2 both work. ....but I can't say for sure.

Oh man, I love it! Both my bikes are now mullets. I really like the 29 up front--feels more capable in the jank. But I love the extra ass space the 27.5 gives in the rear--less butt buzz for sure on the steep rolls & features. Not sure if it's placebo or what, but in my head, it feels more playful in the corners than my full 29er.

@I Do Blues thanks. Interesting. At 173cm, I might be a couple cm taller than you and trying to figure out whether the butt buzz will be a deal breaker. I've also been pondering whether mullet bikes are really here to stay or if we'll all be riding full 29 except for smaller sized frames. I did try an Instinct a while back, but as it was my first 29er ride, I took it easy. I think it's worth another trip to Endless.

@@briannyob7799 I'm 171cm. I was totally comfortable on full 29ers. ...but I have more fun on mullets. I had the some butt buzz on the 29ers. Having the 29 up front is really noticable when it comes to rolling over things (rock gardens, roots, etc). I'd have a hard time going back to a 27.5 up front. My brother (about 174cm) is a waaay better biker than me and has been riding for 20+ years (started on 26ers). He's been on 29ers for years now and loved them. He tried a mullet this year for the first time and has since completely switched over to them. He finds them better in the corners, better for jumping, and more playful in general.

Great recovery! I'm sorry you had to go through with that. I actually just had the screws removed last week--about 2 years after the fusion. I was still getting muscle & nerve irritation so decided to give it a try. We'll see how things turn out by the summer. I'll be in physio for 2 months before I get back in the bike.

What do you guys do and take for any kind of therapy or pain relief? I have had a disc bulge for many years now that they consider not worth operating on or risk causing me more damage, but I can't pedal without causing back and leg pain/spasms/weakness which is why I'm looking into ebikes.

@@LastAphelion I highly recommend two books. (1) Back Mechanic by Stuart McGill, (2) True To Form by Eric Goodman. After dealing with back issues (& multiple surgeries) over the past 10 years, those two books are the best I've seen. Both of them offer good tips and exercises that really help. My eBike has really helped me deal with the climbs. I prefer my analog bike on the descents, but my eBike is pretty close and it does save my back. Getting an eBike changed everything for me. I also recommend raising your bars with either some extra spacers or high rise bars. That really helps too. Shorter cranks might also offer some relief. I'm 5'7-ish (171cm) and I ride 155mm cranks.

@@IDoBlues Thank you so much I will check them out, and I guess I was already on the right track interested in trying short cranks on whatever new bike I pick! I'm the same height, do you feel like 29" wheels puts more stress on your joints? I can handle dozens of laps on my 26"er but when I tried going to 29" this year it puts too much stress on my back and knees to pedal and wondered if 29"s are just too big for my size (I never felt small, but I feel like a tiny guy on 29" flopping back and forth on a penny farthing haha). Considering mullet or full 27.5" for my first full sus

@@LastAphelion I'm fully a mullet convert! Highly highly highly recommend them for people our size! It's so nice having the big 29 up front for rolling over everything, but having that smaller wheel out back reduces the chance of butt buzz and feels better on the corners. Not sure I noticed a difference on back stress (especially on the ebike), but overall, I just have more fun on the mullet.

I *think* you need to add 2 offset bushings (one on each end) to make it work as a full 29er. I only needed to us one for the mullet. Offsetbushings.com sell them as a pair.

@@IDoBlues thank you. one more question. If I wanted to run a 170/160, I would probably just need to get a 170 fork and still keep the 2 offset bushings right? Thanks again

@@mickm8255 I think that's right, but I'd do a little more digging around youtube or maybe emtbforums.com to see if you can find anyone who has done it.

@@IDoBlues cheers. Thanks. See you on the Shore sometime. If you're ever out in Maple Ridge, let me know and I'll join you on Thornhill or Woodlot

@@mickm8255 Loved Thornhill the other week. Still need to get out to Woodlot!

No. The conversion actually raised the bottom bracket 3mm.

@@IDoBlues That's good to hear. No issues on big compressions? Just worried about that extra 20mm of travel on full compression doing bad things lol

@@FreeRangeChicken_MTB No issues so far.

Thanks. I'll have to add it all up (cost of parts minus selling the old ones).

The two main expenses were the shock and the fork. I bought my Fox 36 for $1200 CDN (you can probably get them cheaper now). I sold my Fox 34 for $700. So that upgrade was $500. I really splurged on the shock. The EXT was $1400 CDN all in, and I sold my old Fox DPS shock for $400 CDN. So that upgrade was $1000. I could have gone with a Fox coil and saved $400-500 there, but I really like those EXT shocks (so ya, a splurge for sure). The offset bushings were $55 CDN. So the fork/shock upgrades came to a total of $1555. For the wheels, I'll sell the rear one for about $600 and am using the front for a mullet build for my son. But let's say I just replaced the rear and sold the rear which I would have done if I wasn't building one up for my son. In that case, I bought the rim (Revel RW30) for $400 CDN, and the DT Swiss rear hub for $277 CDN. It cost me $225 CDN to get it built up with Sapim CX-Ray spokes. So that rear wheel came to $902. So after selling my old one, that's about $302 for that upgrade. The 203mm front rotor came to $35 CDN. The 155mm cranks were also a major splurge. They came to $530 CDN. But now that I'm on 155mm, I'd have a hard time going back to 165 or 170 (due to my height and injuries). That part of the rebuild is very specific to me though--totally unnecessary for most people. I sold my old 165mm ones for $40 (pretty beaten up). So that comes to $510. The Bike Yoke 160mm dropper came to $470 CDN. I sold my old Fox Transfer 150mm for $225 CDN. So that upgrade came to $245. So totals for the upgrades (in CDN)... Fork: $500 Shock: $1055 Rear 27.5 wheel: $302 203mm rotor: $35 Cranks: $510 Dropper: $245 TOTAL: $2647 CDN (which is about $1987 USD) The parts I replaced had two seasons of riding on them, so those upgrades are for geo/function of the enduro project, but also a refresher too.

If I did it with more of an eye on budget, I would have gone with the Fox shock and I wouldn't have replaced the cranks. In that case, the cost would look more like (in CDN).... Fork: $500 Shock: $605 Rear 27.5 wheel: $302 203mm rotor: $35 Dropper: $245 TOTAL: $1687 CDN (which is about $1266 USD)

@@IDoBlues Thanks for the detailed breakdown!

Follow up question: I am 230lbs, I ride mainly Fromme and Seymour and never for longer than about 2hrs on a Ibis Ripmo v2. I am considering an eMTB so I can get more laps in. Would you recommend an Orbea Rise + simmilar uprades you just did? Or if you had carte blanche, is there a new stock option that is already suitable? It seems like you have made what brands should be offering but don't yet.

I haven't seen any evidence on mine of that happening.

Ya, I'm settled on 63-64.

I still have it, but haven't been missing it. I've been riding with glasses lately so I'm not getting anything in my eyes, and so far, no mud spots on my camera.

Ya, interesting eh. Mine was the M-LTD (now modified). XTR drivetrain. I added a OneUp carbon bar. Took off the upper chain guard. Lighter wheelset. Lighter saddle. I guess it all adds up.

I have a medium M20 with beefier tires, saddle and pedals, a 150/36 fork, and 203 rotors, and its just over 19 kgs

Yep. Unless the shape of it hits the frame. The EXT works. The Fox DHX2 also works. You do need the offset bushings though.

Thank you. What does making it a mullet do to the speed limiter?

@@mtb_3930 The limiter uses the rpm on the rear wheel, so the speed limit is reduced when you go to a mullet. I converted for pretty steep descents--I haven't noticed that reduced limit at all.

I thought it was 46 lbs...but I could be wrong there. But ya, the Wild is amazing. If it was out at the same time I bought my Rise, I probably would have gone with the Wild (especially if it really comes in at 42 lbs).

Wrong. It's 46 lbs (20.9kg actually since Orbea work in metric).

I already had the Rise but I started feeling under-gunned on the trails I was riding. It was cheaper to beef it up then sell it and buy a new one, plus this is lighter than any other out there. I liked the original Rise, but I love it even more now that I've made those changes.

I agree. After the mods though, this bike becomes much more capable on the steeps. I can't recommend it enough if you are pushing it past being a trail bike.

Eh? What’s old skool about any of that build? Seriously - what trail bike has/had a 64-degree HA? The reach shortened, but to the right size for the owner - and The Same As His Dreadnought. Genuinely - what is antiquated here?

I'm not even sure enduro was a thing 10 years ago. And I don't know many trail bikes with a 64 HTA. But a label is a label. Enduro, down-country, trail. I like the numbers. And for the trails I ride, a 64 HTA feels better than a 66. And 160 travel feels better than 140. I'm pretty light, so I don't notice a flexy rear triangle.

@@eightlivesdownmtb ok ok, after changes is quite good ! :) (i was commenting stock Rise geometry)

how about stiffness/flexy rear triangle? can you feel it ?

@@razorree I don't notice the flex on the rear triangle, but I'm only 135/140 lbs so take my experience with a grain of salt.

Way more Enduro options available now....but not as light weight as this build. I love it.