Taihoroux 😅

PS such a shame you don't have 5 million viewers and you're not in Barcelona, interviewing everyone involved.

Tom, I think ETNZ would have sold the package to everyone, but let's be clear, it would still be a second-tier boat. They're not going to weaponize the challengers by providing them with parity of technology. As Grant dalton has said, they're trying to organise the best possible regatta, but they don't want a "the operation was a success but the patient died" situation - losing would obviously be a failure on every level. I'll lay odds that the key foil technology and simultaneous multiple trim systems & their mechatronics, aren't part of the French package. I think, other than foils, the linked trim systems will be a decisive technology in this cup. Imagine being able to change your foil flaps, rudder rake, rudder foil, mast rake, jib trim, mainsail trim etc all at the touch of a single button which is operating to presets depending on wind strength, apparent wind angle and sea state?

I love the semi open source nature of the boats and how so much is broadcast to youtube , very few lawyers out in the open etc , very Kiwi. The current process is advancing the designs so much faster , non foiling monohulls seem like a life time away now. I don't see the French having enough experience to win this time around but they may well become formidable in future events, ETNZ already have people who can win in completely equal F50s though better sailing, the french have that to contend with on top of the design race.

I really enjoy your analysis of the boats, thanks. I cannot believe that TNZ would provide the exact same design to a competitor, regardless of the money involved. A bit like Ferrari and Mercedes F1 teams supplying engines to other teams, they aren’t the same units the factory teams use. Keep up the great work!

I think this helps both the challengers and the defender. Whoever wins the challenger series won't be going in blind and it let's them know if they are competitive or if they need to develop more. I am sure that the defenders have more development to go and wouldn't be surprised to see different foils as the French bought those plans at a certain point in time and more development would have happened since.

I'm from New Zealand - I dont think anything Dalton does would give an advantage to anyone else knowingly, and everything will be calculated to give ETNZ the biggest gains. That's why we love Dalts :P From my perspective, what ever he needs to do to win without cheating is the go :P

Dalton has always been up front about raising funds to sustain the cup challenge. It's been a never-ending challenge for team NZ since their first win in 95. So no surprises about the wheeling and dealing needed to keep this huge operation ticking over. Me thinkith Sour grapes 🍇 I've come to realise that you have to be more cunning out of the water than actually sailing/flying on it. 🎉

AC34 ETNZ provided Luna Rossa with a design package for their AC72.

Another excellent summary, Tom.

If you think Dalton is giving OE a replica of Taihoro then think again. Dalton is cunning and meticulous in everything he does. He’s always one step ahead.

OE reported that ETNZ as per their contract, made it clear that there would be no information sharing after the OE boat goes in the water for the first time.

Love the AC - it’s got everything. Naked desire to win projected through beautiful boats, high tech, speed, danger, sailing skill, teamwork, project management, international rivalry, untold wealth, and Byzantine skullduggery. Re - the French: they’ve got a huge depth of experience racing high tech foil borne boats across the Atlantic. I wouldn’t underestimate them at all.

On reflection i think there will be three decisive technologies in this cup: (1) foils; (2) sails; (3) linked trim systems.

Fantastic to see another team enter the big stage. Its a huge leap with significant learnings required to be anywhere near competive on the AC stage. Valencia days were more like rally cars. The step up to F1 is a monumental leap from those days. The desire to be there competing by more teams is proven by the number of youth and women's teams entered this year. There is a grass roots fostering dynamic sailing going on which we will see the benefits of well into the future. When the wealthy backers can see their money has a chance of success more teams will follow. Hats off to ETNZ for sharing, fostering and growing the new era of sailing. Look at Australia, the country that revived global interests in the AC in the 80's hasnt managed to compel any wealthy backers for a long time. Lots of talent, sailing/working with foreign flags, (just like NZ). Hopefully we'll see the likes of them be competitive on the big stage again.

Team New Zealand will race the other AC75 boats anyway in the preliminary regatta. Once that is part of the program it's kind of irrelevant whether the French do or not. I personally think if you aren't going to have two boat testing, they should just allow them to line up for a bit of fun anyway. Fraternization with the defender included.

Thanks for the vid. You're the only one dissecting the Cup in English that I know of. There would be more interest if the promoters were more transparent regarding the technical issues. Instead, all we get is talking heads being asked about their feelings.

Thanks for another Video Mozzy! You should have a patreon or something, I’d donate.

Nothing wrong with some good old fashioned Americas Cup skullduggery 😄

Very smart of TeamNZ in my view.

Thanks again Mozzy for the best reporting and analysis, and to your viewers for comment strings that are still more unciteful than silly. I think the learning curve is so steep that new teams should be able to buy design packages. And having worked with French engineers for decades I doubt they could fabricate and operate anybody else's design without "fixing" it their way. Will be interesting.

Kiwi here. Feeling good! :)

It will come down to the sailing & operation of the boat.

There's no way it's a replica of the Kiwi boat. They key design elements are on their boat alone. Especially in regard to the foils. And the small bulb on the foil that is detachable - they maybe wanting you to believe this what they're using, but being detachable, on race day, it could be a totally different shape. Or the whole foil isn't even their race foil. What team would divulge this so early. None of the other teams have. It's going to be the best Louis Vuitton series, and I hope the French are in the final of it. Their collaboration with the kiwis has certainly fast- tracked them to being super competitive at the next cup, if not this one.

I think the challengers will be able to get just as much, if not more info as new zealand. They effectively get practice racing against the final boss. New Zealand won't now for sure if OE is fast because of skill, design or modifications. Either way, getting more teams involved will always be a benefit to the sport.

I don't think NZ sharing their design with FR is bad - it gets more teams involved. Does it disadvantage the challengers... yes, but the winner of this cup will be the best prepared team. I will be surprised if there is much difference in boat speed and foiling dynamics. NZ still raging hot favourite.

So many great insights, thanks for the update.

I think the French will be super competitive and the French are also able to tweak whatever they choose but remember New Zealand has been sailing these for the last two cycles the learning curve for the French will be too steep to be competitive against New Zealand

Never underestimate Team NZ,if the French beat the other teams well that's half the roast been eaten 😎🤣

TNZ will be keeping something up its sleeve, that is for sure. I can't imagine Dalton giving the French an EXACT replica.

@mozzysails here's another take, say the French don't make it to the cup, and later NZL breaks there boat, wouldn't they theoretically have a backup boat if the French allowed them to use their boat? Seems like there is a little bit of an unfair advantage there.

Remember AC35 with Oracle & Soft Bank?

i wonder what deal team nz has in place , im sure if the french fall out early they will be able to test alongside them , also they have a boat load of parts they can scavenge if needed

I think if Team New Zealand is coordinating with to the French in this manner, they may loose the cup. Okay, they get to test their design, but the other teams get to test their boats up against it and gather all kinds of data as well. Once the cat is out of the bag this early, it's easier for competitors to know what adjustments to make and those adjustments can be thoroughly tested well before the races. This may be a big mistake.

I love the Premiere Pro rendering glitches that often pop up in these videos 😂

Hard lesson if French boat becoming the challenger, biting their master’s hand and go winning the old mug for the first time in the cup history. End of the cup, wrap the deed of gift, everybody turn back home.

I may be ever so slightly biased in a rather small way but I love it that TNZ have their boat in the challenge series. Genius.

Hmmm if Orient Express were actually called "ETNZ B team" would we feel quite so comfortable with this B team sailing in the challengers series?? Everybody regards OE as the big underdogs in this cup, this has allowed this arrangement they have eith ETNZ to fly a bit under the radar - but we might all get one almighty surprise if they turn out to be hyper competitive, which coukd easily happen now we know that they have a near identical design package to ETNZ.

In Bermuda wasn’t Team Japan a Team Oracle USA (defender) side project?

Stingray Jstingray says the rumor has it, the French boat will be named Taihorient Express anytime soon.

The ultimate irony would be if the French boat is the challenger and then defeats TNZ in the cup series 🙄

I wonder if the other teams aren't kicking themselves right now for not buying the design package. It would have been a huge advantage to see Team NZ designs while designing their own boat. Maybe less this time than the last cup, but it makes me think that Stars and Stripe would have been much more competitive than expected if they had made it to Aukland. Thanks for the video, Great content as always!

Having the defender's design in the challenger series might help everyone including NZ. Each race FRA sails gives a bit of an indication of what to expect from NZ but it's different teams. NZ alone know how close both designs are. The FRA boat may be NZ designed and built but I am not aware of a statement from NZ both boats are identical.. I would hesitate to put a number on the balance of performance between FRA and NZ. Only if FRA is the winning challenger and races for the cup against NZ. The FRA boat showing off details NZ might have rather kept secret a littrle while longer? Could be, but they are things of such maginitude it would be unrealistic for anyonpe to try and adopt here and now so close to racing. Even so, I expect FRA and NZ not to be a carbon copy. In the end it's all part and parcel of the AC game for as long as I can remember. In the modern cup there's probably always been more scheming off the water than on it.

While ETNZ have sold a design package to the French. Do we really think they have risked losing the cup providing them (and huge amounts of intel to the other challengers) with a total <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="61">1:1</a> copy of their AC race boat? That would be utter madness. I find it very hard to believe Orient have ETNZ's race foil design, which we haven't seen yet. Also the aero differences on the hull shapes are marginal and low single digit differences at best so giving this away is significantly less of a differentiating factor in the overall outcome. Come on Mozzy you should know better than to get sucked into the hype. ;)

great update

So I’m curious what are the main benefits to team New Zealand by them sharing so much of their data and research and potentially the leg up the have on the rest of the teams. Other than the French giving team New Zealand some of their own research to help them as a trade or just buying the package and helping New Zealand financially.

I thought the whole idea of the AM was that Teams design their own boats to a rule. The defending champions selling their secrets to make it a one design for 2 of the boats seems to defeat the object. I'm sure it helped NZ substantially with their costs - but if these two boats end up in the final then it feels like it will have cheapened the whole concept of developing their own design.

If I knew one could buy a copy of the NZ boat, I would have stepped up .. ;-)

They were given a design package(s) at once, or step by step, by the collaboration is over since the boat is out of the shed, right? There is still plenty of developments that's gonna happen during the challengers series and the cup. On both sides. So, there is a limit to the "one design". And we have Cammas 😉

Love it, great work. But let’s see ‘em sail it before we make any too bold predictions.

I wouldn't bank on the French foils being the same and ETNZ's final ones! It makes sense to hold back until the very last moment on the final design if they so wish, maybe based on how the data looks from French trials.

So what does a "design package" actually amount to? Does it include a complete clone of the Mechatronics? Does it also mean all the system software ??? Is there a cut-off point for transfer of foil design versions ? If any of these are limited to a cut-off point, like for instance the date of paying for/receiving the design package, then there could be some significant evolution by TNZ since that time. On the other hand - as Mozzy says... if this is just a pure-play stalking-horse, with data swapping between the teams, then that is a whole different ball game.

Kiwis are sharing and all should be happy more teams at LV cup. Even kiwis shared all till now boat its built. Time from now and strategy for wsy to developing further its most important! What can improof and what its given and not able changing. Luna rossa was supporting kiwis in san Francisco, I happy NZ helping new late in sighn. Alinghi was buying an first boat. Getting exiting what boats able and differences.

Do the yachts sail faster the higher they are above the water on the foils. Or is it better being a little closer to the water and getting ground effect for lift.

If things are this way, it is probably because the boat is not critical; maybe the software is the secret weapon? We know the NZ crew are the best at this game,

ETNZ need the money to win the defence which is also why AC is in Barcelona and not Auckland. I guess they are confident in their sailors and the final tweaking of Taihoro has yet to come.

It is a team NZ design but it does not mean that ETNZ will have the same race foils. I seriously doubt they would give team OE an identical boat / foil design.

Hi Mozzie...good stuff as always but would gently challenge your suggestion that the boats are identical as we have not seen the 'hidden' stuff which I would bet will be different as each team goes down it's own development path in this regard. Cheers Alan

I believe team nz is finishing off their final foil design and building them now so even tho the French foil are a good indication of where they going. It won’t be the final design on the nz boat I expect it will be more on pair with Luna Rossa and possibly innos

Thanks for the insight and analysis of the “French/Kiwi” boat. This kind of “collaboration” on the fundamental design of a “challenger” is a violation of the CUP Deed of Gift and the “ spirit” of the CUP. The CUP Deed of Gift is the controlling document in the final analysis NOT some business contract that TNZ creates to harvest as much $$$$ as they can from everyone else.

The French using New Zealand's design cuts both ways: Team NZ can learn about how their design holds up during the challenger series, and the challengers can see how they hold up against New Zealand's design before one of them sails in the America's Cup. It has the potential to reduce possible technological advantages during the final between challenger and defender and making it a sailing race rather than a tech race.

By the time the Cup is sailed, I don’t think the French will have the same boat as ETNZs. Even if the French have a surrogate launch boat (I still think some internals/control systems and maybe even the foils might differ), they won’t get all the updates and additional developments that ETNZ will roll out until the actual Cup match. And whilst some of those developments might only be marginal gains, they might be the deciding factor. A great example is the huge step that the British made from the Christmas Cup to the Challenger Series in the last cup cycle. An even greater (or painful) example is the staggering development that Oracle Team USA rolled out during the actual Cup match period in San Francisco, when the were still sailing the AC72 catamarans. Also in F1 updates with marginal gains can be a season defining factor.

It shows the TNZ is confident in both their kit and skills and TOE is accepting the challenge fair and square while saving so much time and money on the engineering. If the other teams did not want to burn cash and were confident enough in their skills they would have done the same thing as TOE.

Only an Elefant in the room???? it's a f.....g oil Tanker !!!!!!!! W LR !!!

If the French yacht is a carbon copy, no pun intended, up to the very foils then it's *_clearly_* a breach of the collaborative regulation. I didn't expect the foils to be identical, but if they and the sails are the same, what the heck?? Imagine Orient Express defeats the other teams and ends up being the challenger to face ETNZ in the final. We'd have IDENTICAL yachts competing against each other with only the crews being different. I don't want to see that. I was hoping for some variation from the French contender.

Second day French look fast and stable and flying low.

The French have the design but do they have the software/systems/ technique/strategy/experience? I think not.

Mozzy grazie per questi video fantastici. Ho una domanda per te abbiamo visto i nuovi foil di Lunarossa ma il timone sembra che sia ancora quello della vecchia barca è così? Ciao e grazie di nuovo

I personally do not like the Americas Cup anymore. After been a long time lover of the CUP since a boy and being involved in two teams, I feel the cup has lost what its about. I miss the real match racing, this is just who can start and not make a mistake and stay on the foils. I miss the pre starts, duels, sail changes real sailing. But you do a great job on your reports.

@MozzySails , I was looking at the America’s cup recon of the christening of the French boat and it seemed that the French were running asymmetric foils( or at least the bulbs were different), what do you think the reason is for that

Finally please do more videos

I am curious to hear from anybody that thinks the Veem brand of propellor interceptor edge could have any sort of impact on the foiling edges, or would it be prohibited under the rules?

Question on the main sail twin skins. Does each skin have a separate cunningham control so that the windward skin can be flattened more than the leeward skin to generate more lift? This is a follow up on the Red Bull broken mast video.

It doesn't matter, at the end of the day when the dust settles, if you can't beat etnz, you ain't winning the cup.

I really don't see how this makes any difference. If the other defenders can't bear OE then it is unlikely that they would beat ETNZ. If they can beat OE then they have a good shot. If anything, it might give the other challengers some false hope assuming ETNZ will have something over OE. OE want to win just as much as the other challengers so why would they give their data to ETNZ? All teams see all races so there is no advantage either way. The arm flapping over this is nonsense.

Excellent thank you, Im a Kiwi so im with Grant Dalton, the more boats the better and hope the French don't win, lol

It allows the challengers to already sail against the TNZ boat. So for every plus, there’s a minus.

I would doubt that’s the foils nz will use, there would be a few differences under the deck as well.

How many kiwis are on other teams? Anyone who doesn’t realise Kiwi involvement across the board may be judgemental about OE but my attitude is weve been sharing tech for love and money for 3 decades.

AC has always been a boat design competition as well as a sailing skills competition. The defender has already the big advantage of choosing the rules and seems unfair they now have also the advantage of watching their design competing with the challengers beforehand.

Maybe the principle behind this collaboration isn’t an issue, but as many comments reflect, the facts are critical. For example were ETNZ using OE to run interference through the Challenger series for its final race package, then that may amount in final analysis to something similar to a two boat package. Under the recon perhaps similar levels of transparency should be applied to the technical deal brokered between the two teams, and ensure a level race course under the rules of the match?

It's sooooooo wrong. BUT - the challengers should see it as an opportunity to gain an understanding of the defender's package and to tune their package against it. So it is a benefit for the challengers and the defender.

i have a question for you Mozzy ... When ive watched the various vids of the boats i always seem to notice that the American Magic foil tips break the water by more than the others ? Am i seeing this right ? Are they really flying with the foil angled like that ?...any thoughts ?

An example of TNZ not really being able to afford to race in the cup! Complete sham. Good to have more boats in the cup but to roll in with a completely designed boat of the shelf then no real effort has been made on the French part to beat the rest.

Its good for ship builders and AC team in Aotearoa....

Brad butterworths opinion is not worth peanut butter.

Thanks!

Bruno made it clear that info swapping ended the moment ETNZ launched there boat. These aren’t the new foils or sail package.

In my opinion it kind of defeats the object of telling everyone to make their own boats, I would argue that the intention of the rule saying the boat must be built in the country of entry was designed to stop this but obviously when the rules were written so long ago they don’t really cover all of the opportunities that modern technology provides….. either way it looks like it’s here for this cycle so we just get to watch and see!!

Mozzy come on thought you were an expert analysis to say That the French foils is ETNZ come on you dont know us kiwis we are cunning buggers we wouldn't make the French boat exactly like Taihoro of course we will have a lot more upgrades than the French, It was just to get them up and running competitive

It is a shame that the French, with all they have done in the foiler IMOCA class and in the ULTIM multi hull class, first give credit to that algosaxon laywer competition by participating and secondly not even bringing there own design.

If the French win and we go into a one design series then… when do we rename it New Zealand’s Cup?

Well done again

Isn't this the same as SoftBank Team Japan and Oracle in Bermuda?

Interesting if taihoro is exactly the same, no secrets takes away some of the mystique of the cup

My understanding is the French brought the exact same boat TNZ is using as defender. this included training and showing how things work. this period has ended and the French have to figure out everything themselves. But what a brilliant move 20 years of development priceless

I really struggle with letting the French / ETNZ do this.. Team ETNZ basically have two boats that breaks all the rules. They have twice the development time on the water and a massive advantage over everyone else. The competition is as much a technology race as it is a sailing race. All the other teams should now be allowed twice the allocation of the part etc etc, and only one boat ETNZ or the French should be allowed to sail at the same time..

presuming that the boat is identical is a bit naive,they will not have given their best, newest technology to the french

If ETNZ have got it right, I reckon they have, the French have a huge leg-up. Now the question is if they can capitalise.

Butterworth should stay in Switzerland! Team NZ always holds something up their sleeves. We're not the best for no reason. ❤