Our Marine Survey - Buying A Boat Sight Unseen!
Рет қаралды 22,727
2 жыл бұрынBryan Shrock Marine Surveying: bryanshrocksurvey.com/
The Broker we bought the boat through, Catawba Yacht Sales: www.catawbayachtsales.com/
To follow along with the entire journey, please check out my 'Buying A Boat - The Good, Bad & Ugly' playlist here: • Buying A Boat - Sea Ra...
For a look at nearly 100 DIY boat repairs videos, check out my 'How I Did It - Boat Repairs and Upgrades' playlist; • How I Did It - Boat Re...
Filmed February, 2022.
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For a look at nearly 100 DIY boat repairs videos, check out my 'How I Did It - Boat Repairs and Upgrades' playlist; • How I Did It - Boat Re...
Boat Specs;
- Model: 1998 Sea Ray 370 Sundancer
- Length (bow to transom): 37-6", LOA (with factory swim platform): 40'-1"
- Beam: 12'-7"
- Dry Weight: 17,000 lbs
- Fuel Capacity: 275 U.S. gallons, 1,040 litres
- Draft: 32”
- Dead Rise: 20 degrees
- Engines: 2 x 7.4 litre Mercruiser Bluewater, Multi-Port fuel injection, gasoline,
raw water cooled, rated at 310 HP
- Transmissions: 2 x Borg Warner Velvet Drives, in Vee-Drive configuration
- Generator: Westerbeke 7.2 Kw BCGTC @ 60 Hz, gasoline powered & carburated, 3,600 RPM continuous engine speed
- 18,000 (total) BTU (12 + 8), reverse cycle heating/air conditioning
- Shore Power: 2 x 30 Amp, 120 V connections
- Freshwater Holding Tank: Single 70 U.S. Gallon tank
- Waste (black-water) Holding Tank: Single 40 U.S. Gallon
Video/Photo Equipment Used (Updated list, 2022)
- DJI Pocket 2 (For more info on that compact, 4K camera + help support the channel, please click here; click.dji.com/AEYMHJ8ly85PeHp...)
- GoPro Hero 7 Black, on GoPro suction cup mount
- Google Pixel 6 Pro + iPhone 12 for still photos + supplemental video
- DJI Mavic Mini for Aerial Drone Shots ( For more info on that great, compact drone + help support the channel, please click here: click.dji.com/AAnzdtD07BPE4at...)
- Editing done with Vegas Movie Studio 11
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@gilrheaume6283 Жыл бұрын
Dear Sir, my wife and I are in our 70's and we do not have a boat but I live through your trips and repairs which I love to watch at night. Thank you for the entertainment and the joy that you have for the water. Gil in Massachusetts
@BoatingWithBoogaboo Жыл бұрын
Glad you find inspiration in my work! Thank you for your comment - it keeps me inspired to move forward with this 🙂
@cpwatching5647 2 жыл бұрын
I'm excited for you guy's. Glad to hear all is looking good. Hope the sea trial goes perfect for you. Take care!!
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Me too!!
@joecuslidge3751 2 жыл бұрын
Hello Paul. I think this is one of my favorite of your videos. I can't wait to hear what you have to say after the sea trial. You've got me all excited and I'm just an innocent bystander.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Listen, I also started as an innocent bystander and look where that got me! 😂
@dwtrksvc 2 жыл бұрын
What a great survey combined with your input. Great video.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, I was very happy not only with the detailed report, but what was in it. Looks to be a good boat 👍👍
@richardklugh8778 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent video. Very helpful towards future purchase.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Glad it helped!
@badriverbandit 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the updates.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
You're welcome. More to come!!
@brandonleckie8548 2 жыл бұрын
I used the same surveyor last year when I bought my 340 Sundancer. Good guy who does good work. Enjoy the new boat!
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Brandon!
@peterj2890 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome video, great job.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Peter. I'll have more coming up discussing boat buying hints and insights. I get a ton of questions on the subject, so hope I can help some folks out.
@SOLDTONORM 2 жыл бұрын
Great insight! Thanks!
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@WiscoBoater 2 жыл бұрын
Great stuff Paul!
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Chad!! More to come. . .
@deangrey0731 2 жыл бұрын
Sure Your have an amazing video a year after we went through a survey & mechanical test!!! Amazing video terrific advise for sea ray buyers. Again an amazing video thanks for doing what you do!
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
No,thank You for following along with my ramblings 😂 Always happy to help when I can!!
@kpb0574 2 жыл бұрын
Bryan Shrock did the survey on our Formula last year and did a fantastic job! Congratulations again on the 370!
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Kevin 😁
@fatalglitch 2 жыл бұрын
Those remote oil lines were the bane of my existence last summer. I was slowly losing oil last year, and for the life of me couldn’t figure out where from. Found a comment randomly about the remote oil lines, so decided to check. The fitting going into my 5.7 block was the culprit. After turning myself into Gumby, I was able to retighten and reseat the lines, and problem solved
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Great! And yes, I am only too familiar with the Gumby reference when working in boats 😩
@kevinmccarey5015 2 жыл бұрын
Hello to you Paul, Great video on boat survey. Full speed ahead, March has arrived. Be well
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Indeed - and Spring launch is coming fast!!
@ampegor 2 жыл бұрын
My Boat had about 1500 Hours on the engines when we bought it and they are in great shape with great Maintenance records. I agree high hour engines that are original and well cared for are a good thing not a bad thing.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely! IMO, 1,500 hours on the 7.4's is only half way to a refresh, maybe having the heads done at that point. . .
@stehouwercamping6585 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your videos. They are helpful.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for following along!
@mattie3595 2 жыл бұрын
Look fwd to the mechanical upgrade vids on the 370. Excited for upcoming content!!!
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
New parts are already finding their way to me! 😁
@12000Jetlag 2 жыл бұрын
So glad things are going well with the purchase. Lake Erie is starting to melt so it won't be long now! On the topic of the shower sump I maintain mine by using some bilge cleaner in it once in a while. That helps to keep it from becoming too gross and makes the fall clean up easier.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Good idea👍
@matthewehansen 2 жыл бұрын
Congrats - should have my survey/compression tests/hours pulled from ECUs done over the next few weeks for our new to us Cruisers Yachts 320. I echo your dirty clean boat comment, that is exactly how this boat is too. Looking forward to seeing your new 370 in your upcoming videos as I start my list of projects too.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks and congratulations to you as well!
@dvx216 2 жыл бұрын
Bryan is my go to guy for surveying every 3yrs. for my insurance well worth the piece of mind.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
He is, in my opinion, worth more than his fee. Very attentive and happy to talk about anything on the boat. Highly recommend his services.
@GWebVideos 2 жыл бұрын
We used the Bryan at son rise and he was awesome! Cool guy, very knowledgeable, and willing to answer questions!
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Great to hear! He was most helpful and beneficial with our decision making when it came time to purchase this vessel.
@pbroad87 2 жыл бұрын
Congratulations once again, I bet it's hard to sleep at night waiting to get your hands on your new to you both yacht.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
In the past month since we had our offer accepted, ice only slept through the night three times. True story.
@pbroad87 2 жыл бұрын
@@BoatingWithBoogaboo I bet Paul, I know that's how I would be 🤓 How long have you been putting out videos? I can't remember when I started watching you and anchor girls adventures, all I know is it's been along time and love seeing your adventures. We use to be neighbors lol, we're from northern Michigan and sure miss the beautiful pristine waters. Take care and stay safe. Patrick
@sylvaintherrien6469 2 жыл бұрын
Cant wait for your upgrades love all your vidéos and did all you are going to do!!! so far for your New boat looks like the way i went also for my maxum 46 scb 1998 fly If you change you vhf can i buy your radio microphone or all the radio when you will upgrade!!!!!
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Keep an eye out for my upcoming video, as I was able to go for a brief visit to see her in person this past week. A gorgeous boat - even better in person!!
@jrschantz 2 жыл бұрын
The purchase experience two years ago with my 330 mirrors what you've described to this point, although my survey was only 42 pages. The surveyor was meticulous and thorough (I was present at the survey) and my broker was an invaluable asset in negotiations and scheduling for a buyer and seller 1200 miles apart with the boat being halfway in between. Good luck with the new ship. Hopefully, we can get across the border this year although venturing to the Trent/Severn is likely still a year away.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, having the great help of a broker, as well as a surveyor who not only knows his job, but is willing to offer extra time and effort to get me the information I need. Both come highly recommended and I feel fortunate to have worked with them.
@ladyluck5248 2 жыл бұрын
You’re probably going to want to put camper canvas on the stern too Paul ! Here you two go again !!! Lucky Anchor Girl is good with colours !!!
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
I leave 98.762% of all decorating/colour choices to Anchor Girl and she's always done good by me. Besides, that 98.762% goes well with the 100% happy wife, happy life equation 😉
@ladyluck5248 2 жыл бұрын
@@BoatingWithBoogaboo exactly !!!! Smart man and Helmsman !!!!!
@BikeBoatandTravel Жыл бұрын
I have just "re-watched" this video and am obviously watching with a "keener" interest shall we say. Great content... Thanks. One comment / question. I have recently started following a channel from the west coast from a company that specializes in marine electrical and electronic systems including electrical audits. Did your surveyor provide you with anything in this area? Or is that outside of his scope. I have learned that this becomes more applicable in older boat purchases as there may have been a lot of additions to the electrical systems over time.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo Жыл бұрын
Our surveyor, like most, only covers structural type reporting, but also noted such things as if lights were/weren't operational, fridges, etc., as well as visual inspection of the engines and associated items (batteries and so on). As impressed as I was with his thoroughness, any serious mechanical was left to the marine mechanic to look at. That took place after the main survey, as Bryan (surveyor) did make note if a couple of oil drips to be investigated further. Ultimately, those drips were just old lines that needed replacing - something that the Seller took care of. Apart from that, a decent marine surveyor should be able to, at the very least, point out areas of concern that could be followed up by specialists. For me, there was nothing I didn't expect and was very happy with the overall condition he reported. Remember, Bryan was my eyes as we made the purchase 100% sight unseen 😳 Would I do it again? In a flippin heartbeat!!
@dayonharrison2995 2 жыл бұрын
Congratulations! Do you have a video of repairing the porthole windows on the sides
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Not yet, but will be sharing that project when I do this boat 👍
@rogerhansen1314 2 жыл бұрын
must seal evrything with 3m5200.It is what Hatteras yachts on all vessels it will solve all your water issues!! you can find it at home depot or west maine a little pricey but works perfect. I was a Hatteras dealer and searay dealer for many years. so I speak from experence..
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your input, but I've had great success with Sikaflex for all these projects on our past four boats, spanning 20 years, so I'll stick with my hands on experience 😉
@rizzman99 2 жыл бұрын
Paul, when are you going to post pics of the new boat from your trip to Sandusky?? Waiting and checking every day for an update:) We don't have Facebook so unable to look at the pictures on FB. Love your videos! We are from the Sandusky area and love boating around the PIB islands.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Very soon!
@justinayers6153 2 жыл бұрын
We're in the same boat. Well different actually... but the same :). We too have purchased a boat sight unseen, which is sitting in Cleveland. Dave Leonetti at Popeye Marine Group is doing our survey. After reading some of his Google reviews it looks like Bryan Shrock commented in Popeye's review section that he would highly recommend Dave. Which makes me feel much better knowing how much you recommended Bryan. I should have the survey in my hands by the end of the week. I'll be joining in on the see trial in the Spring with Dave and Alan who will be doing our diesel engine survey. He's with Burt's Diesel Service (came highly recommended by many that I spoke with). I've been an avid boater on Lake Michigan since I was a kid but only on 26' or less boats. We're jumping right in on a 43' now, I can't wait! Thanks for all your videos, they're entertaining and informative. See you on the water!
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Congrats on the new boat! It's good to have folks we can rely on to help us with our deals and it sounds like you've also got the right people working with you. It's gonna be another awesome season!
@edemerick1889 2 жыл бұрын
Great video. Good advise also. I’m a Sea Ray guy and I think the boats are great. But you are right on with all the systems being potential issues. When you finally get your boat all gone through it’s generally time to buy another one. If you don’t like work don’t buy a boat
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Well said! However, Anchor Girl might argue the 'generally time to buy another one' statement, as she keeps telling me this will be our last boat. We'll see ;-)
@anthonydecesare2054 2 жыл бұрын
Paulie -- Nice video! Going thru the survey process myself a number of times and also doing the sight unseen thing. My comment to anyone who hires a surveyor --- get a sample copy of their prior work this will tell you a great deal of what they are about. For many of these guys they are merely going through a check list and leave little or no comments in regards to a questionable line item. I would also comment that when buying an older or as you put it "vintage" vessel. Many of the old school surveyors have a bit more knowledge than some of the younger generation. Regarding your cored hull comment, a number of years ago I bought & sold a 1990 Silverton, what many folks may not know is that many times manufactures will use such materials as Balsa and plywoods for molding and forming purposes only. My surveyor detected moist in the stringers but was unconcerned because he was aware of this. He explained the vintage of the boat was a solid laid hull and the only real concern should be delamination of which he found no indicators. He had in his many files a letter from Silverton stating that the wood in the stringers was not meant for any structural integrity but for the molding and forming process. I will say that after he was done with me, his knowledge, facts and explanations were enough to make my head explode. I must say he did know his proverbial Sh---. With my survey he gave a copy of the letter and it came in helpful upon selling the boat years later. After YES a good cleaning and upgrading of some items I was able to sell it for a substantial amount more than what I had originally paid. Again Paulie Great Video and best of luck with the sea trial!
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Anthony. Appreciate your insights on the Silverton manufacturing process. Good to know and one more story when talking boats with he boys on some Saturday afternoon at the marina. Hope you'll keep an eye out for my next video, as I was finally able to get down to the boat for a brief visit and walk through. Happily, she's even more than had hoped for!
@anthonydecesare2054 2 жыл бұрын
@@BoatingWithBoogaboo between you and I I had heard stories of certain year Searays of troubled balsa wood stringers figured being the Ray guy you are you might have some insight on that. Coming from the Toronto area I suspect you made across the Ambassador Bridge unscathed! How did you like Catawaba & Marble head pretty nice area no?
@gomezadams9900 Жыл бұрын
Very cool Paul. I'm from Windsor myself, and some would say it's the boat capital of Canada. Personally I think Vancouver is probably bigger for boaters like yourself. Im looking forward to watching your video of you taking possession of the boat and taking it out for a shake down cruise. 2 Thumbs up.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo Жыл бұрын
Thanks Gomez. Hope you'll get a chance to watch the rest of this playlist to see how we made out. As for Windsor being the boating capital of Canada, I'd humbly suggest that the Lake Simcoe to southern Georgian Bay area might have that beat. For good or bad, we can get tons of boat traffic on the weekends! Take a look at my channel to see many prime examples 😉 I'll look forward to your comments on some of them!
@JG-wr1sl 2 жыл бұрын
Looking forward to seeing how you replace the ice maker with a fridge. We would like to do the same on our boat.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
It looks to be fairly straightforward, although I will have to do some cutting and drilling (two of my favorite things to do on boats😉), as well as run a new 12v line/switch for the DC side of the equation. I'm looking forward to this project!
@danadiggins793 2 жыл бұрын
Me too. Never used the ice maker. We do a lot of overnights on moorings and the thought of making ice with our holding tank water…well yuck. I would also like to see how you replace the fridge. I couldn’t get the new one into the galley.
@JohnBraman413 2 жыл бұрын
when they did compression test, did they say how the plugs look? be good to know if they did routine maintenance.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
I'll find that out when I replace them myself. A full time up is in order for both engines when she gets home. 👍
@brianwelch7689 2 жыл бұрын
Bryan schrock is awesome I am in Sandusky Ohio... You definitely can trust him
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, he was a pleasure to work with, especially in our situation.
@stevecrane4325 2 жыл бұрын
Paul, What was you escrow monies for the sea trial on the boat. i am always interested what that number is for that type of boat.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Just a small amount to cover any unforeseen issues. One can ask for any amount they feel is reasonable.
@gilrheaume6283 Жыл бұрын
I know that you have a sense of humor, just wanted to add that you have a full head of hair compared to me and you look great. My wife likes you too. Canadian born Drummondville Quebec. Keep up the good work, I picture myself and the wife cruising on your Sea Ray, very relaxing. Bye for now.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo Жыл бұрын
Well, my hair is rapidly receeding, but I'm okay with that 👴 Hit the big 6-0 yesterday, so I'm not that far off your age. I guess it's all in our minds anyway - whatever mind I have left, that is 😂 Cheers!
@mopar5447 2 жыл бұрын
As a 1995 370 owner for 2 years I will be enjoying your future videos and any advice I can give you let me know. I have rebuilt my dash/gauges and wood trim..you will enjoy the amount of room/slack you will have to complete that work if needed. I have installed 3 tv's as well...easy. removed/replaced salon carpet...microwave replaced...etc...still have not found a solution for the old coffee maker spot, let me know what you think if you replace it. let me know if you need anything Paul. Many mechanical issues the past 2 years but we got the boat extremely cheap for the overall condition. Looks brand new besides mechanical.
@rstevens3221 2 жыл бұрын
I removed my coffee maker on my 42 Sea Ray and found a nice wicker storage basket to put in that space, I keep a few bottles of wine in the basket. Target, Pottery Barn, Wayfair, Crate & Barrel carry storage baskets
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Plus, you have a bonus extra receptacle 👍
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your offer, much appreciated. As for the coffee maker, no immediate plans to remove it, even though we already have a brand new Keurig for our morning brews. Keep an eye out for whatever we come with for that space. . .
@damienfowler5725 9 ай бұрын
Just saw your video. Just wondering who you used to transport the boat to u. I’m looking at boats in other states from where I am .
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 9 ай бұрын
Here's the whole story; Buying A Boat - The Good, Bad & Ugly: kzfaq.info/sun/PLKhjT5kr2l2FqN3UkwONjmvAeqX4QYHjF
@brendtsundermeier5963 2 жыл бұрын
Just bought our boat also from Catawba yacht sales, great brokers I’ve known them for years. They have a few great Surveyors they recommend, My survey was over 70 pages also very detailed and informative. Did you move it yet?
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Move it yet?? I haven't even been to see it in person yet! 😂
@kenhogue1007 2 жыл бұрын
What made you switch from a sedan bridge to this model of Searay?
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Here you go; kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nZigfsR0ytG9iYU.html
@jeffking8168 2 жыл бұрын
My hours meters were 222 and 1500 hours. Apparently the one was wired wrong and they left the key on. The ecm confirmed that both were around the 220 mark. Can't trust em.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Sea Ray used less than top drawer Teleflex gauges on this vintage of boats. Many were Prine to early failure with the hour meters, but I'm happy to have learned the actual running hours for the engines. I'm thinking of installing a stand alone hour meter to keep track, moving forward. If so, watch for an installation video 😉
@stevep0726 2 жыл бұрын
When’s the next update and pictures for the new boat
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Soon. . .
@alacart5959 2 жыл бұрын
When will you be doing the sea trail and bringing her home? The season is near and I can’t wait to launch. Cheers! 🥃
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Both happening towards the end of April, weather permitting.
@alacart5959 2 жыл бұрын
Can’t wait to see you doing what you enjoy. Looking forward to seeing you and anchor girl boating again.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Keep an eye out for my next video. First visit to the boat!! Then, you'll see me enjoying myself - and giggling like a little kid 😁
@AT-cn2gu 2 жыл бұрын
Looking for your video on how to import a boat into canada?
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Are you asking me?
@AT-cn2gu 2 жыл бұрын
@@BoatingWithBoogaboo Yes I thought you had a video specifically taking about the importing process. Maybe i'm mistaken.
@markburley4901 2 жыл бұрын
That is one heck of a Marine Survey! Maybe you should do everything from a distance, it seems to have been a 100% positive experience so far. (Yes I caught the hair comment!lol) That forward hatch was an issue on AMFM as well. I watched your video before tackling the project and it went pretty well. I would not have attempted it had I not watched the video. So, there's the proof your DIY videos are worth the time to put together. I'm sure others used it as well. Here's hoping the sea trial goes as well as everything else to date!
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, it's gone well working remotely, but I gotta see it in person really soon!! Did I mention that I've only been able to sleep through the night a handful of times since we made the deal??? Over the top with excitement!!! 😁
@crdjeep123 2 жыл бұрын
In today's market, your lucky the owner let you do all this. Boats sell so fast with out any of this stuff.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
I don't think anything we requested was out of the ordinary or unreasonable. Any broker worth their salt would have insisted on a survey and sea trial as well. Anyone who bought a boat without them would be crazy not to do so.
@crdjeep123 2 жыл бұрын
@@BoatingWithBoogaboo sea trial yes. Survey stuff to low ball the seller. No
@davidingraham1989 2 жыл бұрын
Although our pick for a boat already had a survey done, the first people decided to pass. Here we come to look at the boat and have scheduled a survey by someone else. Long story short we decided to pass on this one as well when the port engine decided to expose its internal workings. No paper needed and back to square one.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Good news out of that is you were able to spot issues before making the purchase. Best of luck on the next one!
@davidingraham1989 2 жыл бұрын
@@BoatingWithBoogaboo We get to start this journey all over again. There’s something to be said for redundancy. Next time we will have a back up boat in mind. Thanks. D.
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Good idea! We had a couple of backups in mind ourselves 😂
@tburger3916 2 жыл бұрын
BOAT= Break Out Another Thousand
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 2 жыл бұрын
Add a few more zeros and you're close 😁
@MrOpaulo 4 ай бұрын
Dont buy a boat unseen. simple
@BoatingWithBoogaboo 4 ай бұрын
What?!?!? We did. Sent FULL payment for this boat - all the way across the border - before ever getting any closer than 600 miles away. Worked our perfect for us, as we are still loving this boat two years later! Check the rest of this series to learn all the details before jumping to any preconceived conclusions. We are not new at this. Simple.
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