Ouch 😂👍🏻

Lol savage

Hahahahahahahahahah brilliant

You sir

😂😂😂shame for Oxford

Maybe Hull really is a great University and Oxford University is an " absolute dump" as Colonel Melchitt said in Blackadder.

They aren't. Don't worry.

@Ruben Lier MEDIOCRE. Do they know *MATLOCK, KENNAN, COHEN, KISSINGER, MEARSHEIMER, CHOMSKY, POZNER, SACHS, BAKER, ... ALL AMERICANS ??? Why dont you defend freedom and sovereignty of IRAQ, SYRIA, LIBYA, AFGHANISTAN, ... ??* *What CAUSED the conflict ?? Watch below, 1) is a PERFECT explanation:* 1) *_"Russia-Ukraine War - Who is responsible? Explained by John J. Mearsheimer | Buddhi"_* 2) *_"8 experts predicted invasion of _**_#Ukraine_**_ by _**_#Russia_**_ due to _**_#NATO_**_ expansion !"_* 3) *_"Henry Kissinger discusses ISIS, Ukraine, and Russia"_*

@@brianbozo2447 Far from it, the hope of the UK is the London School of Economics, as witnessed by the political legacy of illustrious alumni such as the Honourable Jim Hacker, MP and PM

@Ruben Lier Arrange an unconstitutional coup, overthrow the legitimately elected president, start closing down the media, start persecuting those who disagree with the coup, raise nationalism, arrange mass killings, start persecuting anti-positioners, start a civil war, bring the population to poverty, start infringing on the rights of minorities, start banning speaking Russian, start bombing part of their population,……………………… I understood what democracy is like in the West, I understood what European values mean, I understood a lot more.

Something is always better than nothing.

@@sundareshvenugopal6575 everyone knows something.

Chips on your shoulders? Nah!

@@gwynnus only bothersome when you imagine ignorant elitists who will end up making decisions for a vast majority.

@@gwynnus oh the irony. A prince with a chip on his shoulder should be in the trenches

I see a lot of complaing about this discussion but no constructive criticism of what the specific issue with it is. I'm about five minutes in so far and haven't detected anything problematic. Seems PutinBots have invaded this comment section.

No putinbots here thank you very much! The problem is simple: not one opposing view from these intellectuals. One guy talks about Russias incursion into Syria. That's the most ridiculous statement ever. Russia was invited by the Syrian government to help fight off the CIA backed so called insurgents! If it wasn't for Russia Syria would today be a failed state like the those countries left in the trail of the USs invasions in the last 30 years. Also nomention of the gigantic lie of WMDs in Iraq to justify that war. The entire American regime was lying through their teeth to the entire world!! I mean come on what's up with this 'debate'?

@@jamesmason8436 Oh gosh man ... some dissent is good... realism and IR Theory based discussion, an effort to understand the other side is valued ... the entitlement is too much in these talks ... no proposal of peace ... all argue how "We can Impose judgement on them" ... "we good, they bad" in a world where Yemen or Iraq or Afghanistan never happened ... mostly its good but some dissent would have made it worth Oxford.

One can never expect honesty and political correctness from Uk, US, Nato, as we are witnessing the disappearance of many countries during the last 40 years, Millions of people lost their lives and millions of people were displaced as a result of the US, UK, foreign policies, war based business model and neo-colonial mindset. I'm not supporting war not only in the case of Ukraine but in the rest of the world. The Irony is that any president who gets close to the US, UK, NATO, country indeed, would be the next Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Sudan, Republic of Congo, Cameroon, many other unmentioned nations that are not enumerated here and have been affected far mentioned actors during the last 100 years, still facing serious problem. History is the story of the oppressor and it self evident and now they are questioning Russia?

@@jamesmason8436 This is really not justified to put a biased and one sided view where the NATO expansion, USA and nato getting out of abm treaty, the violation of minsk agreement is left out and not discussed. I don't know if they put one sided view deliberately but it's clear to people with common sense outside Europe, russia and USA this situation caused by nato poking Russia again and again provoking them by trying to take Ukraine into nato. It's a national security threat to Russia and let's not forget about what USA and nato did for their national security in Iraq and Afghanistan.And if you want to talk about sovereignty of Ukraine to join nato them remember Cuba was also sovereign and what compromises were made by USA and Soviet union then which are not made right now by USA with Russia.

Can I get some algebraic proof for this

Yes sir. The comments are what restore my faith in humanity

I'm not surprised.

Yeah all I am seeing on screen is an assertion that there is a unified blanket approval of The Ukraine but under the surface there is no such thing.

Cause people are not stupid. When you see stupid kids, sure, you can call them stupid.

Agree!😂

look at the politician that we got. they came from this school.

We don't/can't expect elite-sophisticated, open and just (and many more could be added here....) talks from Oxford everytime but once, one Cambridge graduate British MP said that "It is the responsibility of Oxbridge students to lead the UK ".... Well I was highly critical of that comment and I think I wasn't wrong....

Oxford is a disaster!!!

Politicians in the make…. kids learn best when young, living in dreamland talking a bunch of crap….

🤣 🤣 🤣

😂

I was just thinking the same thing. Incredibly ill informed.

I see a lot of complaing about this discussion but no constructive criticism of what the specific issue with it is. I'm about five minutes in so far and haven't detected anything problematic. Seems PutinBots have invaded this comment section.

You can get better students from if just walk on street and randomly pick. So oxford is disgrace

@ Diogenes' Lantern..I guess (if we had aspirations?) in the day,many of us thought we knew it all!

@@kristinejames9812 true. I was there once myself admittedly which is why I scoff, but find it funny at the same time!

Lol

Absolutely 🙏🙏😂

They just repeat what they hear from the media narrative. Lazy in terms of reason and thinking.

@@joejo2767 ????

In my college education, the first thing we learned was to listen to both sides of the story. As Cicero said, he who does not understand his opponent's argument doesn't understand his own. These students are arguing only their own, parochial, mainstream, media position. They should look at the arguments on the other side -- for example, the Russians say that during German unification, the Western negotiators assured them that NATO would not move "one inch" East, as for example Soviet scholar Stephen F. Cohen says. By moving East, said Cohen, they broke their promise and created a serious military threat to Russia. Under Donald Trump, the US placed nuclear-capable missile bases in Poland and Romania. What would the US do if the Russians placed nuclear missiles in Cuba?

@@norman_5623 the international power politics: the biggest hegemony rules.

Completely irrelevent

@@bluto212 what is?

@@bluto212 Ukrainians are sovereign people but their Govt is fake imposed by coup.

@@bluto212 Historical context and precedent.

@@honorhonor3352 His comment.

Students have always been used to lead conflicts. Unfortunately, they seem to be promulgating a WW3 and the New World Order!

This is not a debate, as mentioned from the very start.

@@sweepingtime ...but it should be. This issue needs objective discussion from both sides by people who are grounded in the facts. Oxford Union is a fantastic forum for doing so, so why not do it with this current issue that the world is intensely focused on?

Exactly.

These students are simply providing their reaction, informed only by their elementary introduction to social sciences. The war is recent, the political conflict merely reportage observation, the broad subject is set against a wider stage of world affairs reportage consumed through a local perspect of this headline, that video, this journalist, that editoral opinion etc. I liked the first speaker: that was insightful, informative, and well observed point taking.

Hasn't Oxbridge (and the Ivy League in the USA) always been like that, finishing schools for the privately educated?

@@view1st Indeed, they're basically teaching you how to be a proper member of the elite. Obama came from that circle and became president, you can reach pretty high places. The debates in the Union nevertheless still had intelligent and critical proposals for discussion.

I see a lot of complaing about this discussion but no constructive criticism of what the specific issue with it is. I'm about five minutes in so far and haven't detected anything problematic. Seems PutinBots have invaded this comment section.

@@jamesmason8436 The fact that you ascribe the name "bots" to views that differ from the mainstream narrative is another point to the argument. As Bush said, you're either with us or against us, and no further discussion is needed.

Nato expansion? Nobody has forced Ukraine or any country to join Nato . They are doing it willingly. Maybe you should ask Russia that what she had done that her neighbours are so petrified of her to join millitary alliance for their security. Guess you can't answer it. RT and the state owned media of Russia didn't feed you the answer.

@@parthaemzg20 well well well someone just walked out of a cave. Since you have been away, West has toppled a democratic govt in UKR, moved forward towards the East Germany as a violation of agreement between Kremlin and West. You might enjoy watching yesterdays conversation with Ronald Paul and Blinkin for a brief summary on this issue.

@@50secs Toppled a govt?? Yeah the 80000 Ukrainian demonstators in Kyiv were sent by the west. And again you are lying here. Can you specifically state which agreement West made with Russia that west violated ?? Caveman

@@parthaemzg20 have you seen the conversation between Ronald Paul and Blinkin yet?

@@parthaemzg20 And specifically for your denial here is an analysis from someone who definitely knows more on this issue more than you and me. This will give you the answers of toppling democratic govt and also the agreement between bush and gorbachev. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mJaKaNZ_pticoX0.html

It is truly disappointing😢

Very interesting. I am about to watch!

I see what you mean. They are simply regurgitating what they have read and been taught. What can they say that hasn't been said a thousand times.... The game goes on

That is why it is called a discussion not a debate, well it is expected commoners misunderstood academics. 10th grade Indian? don't push people to resort to racism, change your mindset.

I absolutely agree, and it is so sad that the academic institutions likes of oxford and such are producing graduates with such limited knowledge...

military operation is on the table😁

Great and simple question! 😂 Nowadays, I am always astonished by how naive so many people are! They’re bragging about freedom but simply let their minds controlled by MSM and gov’s narratives…….

Maybe the question is better posed as - what if Scotland wanted to have foreign military bases in their country, because they felt extremely threatened by the UK? And then, this fear was justified by a full UK invasion of Scotland?

@@yington the timeline of events suggests otherwise. Either way I don’t see why Scotland needs to be in bed with China.

@@amogsnair10 Well that’s gone right over your head then.

I see a lot of complaing about this discussion but no constructive criticism of what the specific issue with it is. I'm about five minutes in so far and haven't detected anything problematic. Seems PutinBots have invaded this comment section.

I'm shocked that they could get away with such an obvious pro nato... propagandized... poor excuse for a debate...at OXFORD!! It was more like a rally. The level of 'group think' propagated there...and inculcated among the students...must have already reached a critical mass...to thus be able to vomited up this debacle...and call it a debate.

@@jamesmason8436 You repeat that comment numerous times ironically that is the problem with this discussion, there is nothing original about it, they may as well have copied and pasted the government rhetoric much like you have copied and pasted that remark.

Sure you can't. Cause it's already not in good hands.

It's cause you are unable to detect it. It would help if you had the brains to do it. After all these comments under this video? Yeah, it would help...

They sourced all here information from the biased media and didn't say anything I haven't heard a thousand times already

Yugoslavia dont forget too

15:15 - Maybe 1 of the reason because Indian student got assaulted bg Ukrainian Army when they are fleeing to Poland. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a619Y6uj2qjGfo0.html

they don’t bother to do more research or study a bit, you know condemning is much easier. And also probably in their mind, India is their ally and should follow the same stance for all occasions. Thinking about India’s own interest? No, that’s out of their scope.

@@yyinlincoln true , no cap

Now Americans wants to be our best defence trade partner coz we spends more than 70B$ every year on defence, more than 40% money goes to Russia ( Even though Russia not even once agreed to share their GSLV or nuclear submarine or fighter jets technology). What's more important for us here is, our biggest threat is china and Russia don't help us fight china but America does just like they did in the 2nd indo-sino war if not for them we would have lost north Eastern territories to china. We need some more time to become self reliant till we should handle this kind of hypothetical situations carefully. This kids thinks (Maybe they just act like that) NATO is there for protect the democracy, Russia and China are threats for the democracy and world. Let them live in that darkness.

True. This is obvious to those who observe. However, those caught in the flame cannot see beyond the flare. 👍

@@sarahjane9956 There is an old idiom for this: "Blind people touching elephant" - - each only felt proportion. One said it's a snake (tail), one said it's a wall (body), one said it's a fan (ear). Everyone believed he got the truth then they started to quarrel furiously.

The Socialists and Diogenes will completely agree with you. I am neither one nor the other, but I also agree. ;)

That was the most well put together rant I have ever read! Spot on! I couldn't agree more!

No , Special Faeces MORE, PLEASE Lotss and lots more: your RANTING is sooo beautiful & perfect& intellegent& forecfull and meaningless; supplimely crass, disorganised and stupid... keep going please, PLEASE make anoth 10 more rants this coming week. Oh PLEEEEEEEEESE do.

If this is the best, Oxford is disappointing....

@@engsenglau787 infiltrated by moneylenders and stonecutters ideology... But good for creating like minded contacts...

This is first generation born after widespread adaption of the internet. Everyone talks to people from other countries every day. Young people all around the world seem to be less hateful towards other people in general. Give them 20 years and I think they can do some good.

@@lao5610 not this bunch. I see no good coming out of them

I see a lot of complaing about this discussion but no constructive criticism of what the specific issue with it is. I'm about five minutes in so far and haven't detected anything problematic. Seems PutinBots have invaded this comment section.

@@jamesmason8436 well you should have. The fact that they have the discussion and barely even mention NATO or Svoboda is as much as you need to know to determine they’re pretty shit.

@@amogsnair10 why would they mention NATO?

Says the person who was probably rejected by one of these unis.

I see a lot of complaing about this discussion but no constructive criticism of what the specific issue with it is. I'm about five minutes in so far and haven't detected anything problematic. Seems PutinBots have invaded this comment section.

My take on this is that they are influencde by the wealthy who all promulgate wars to enrich their own pockets. There is clearly no knowledge of Ukraine history that led to this war.

@@corner559 That is a very childish reaction. I agree totally with him. These kids have no knowledge of what really is happening and it is EMBARASSING to say the least!

@@Lizzied1301 there is no historical justification for the invasion of Ukraine.

If these are your future leaders, heaven help us too

The future doesn't look promising at all. We don't practise what we preach.

Liberalism destroyed the West. We are in the ashes of civilisation.

Everyone else probably is as well.

@Alan totally

why convince you? you think within the limits that are available to you no more everyone who tried to make us suffer became food for worms the same will happen to you

@@mehanoid8182 До чего же они тупые ! ))) И эти люди еще учат нас ковыряться в носу! ))

u r not Russian citizenship to decide who is legitime president in this country, Putin or not. Also u haven't any permission to interfere in president elections. If u have any dream about "kicking someone fallen down", keep them inside urself mind

@@meti616 You seem like the kind of person who sees somebody mistreating an animal, but does not say anything about it, because he doesn't own the animal. There are several illogicalities in your comment. 1. I'm not interfering in the Russian elections - not because I don't have permission, but because I don't have that sort of influence. 2. Putin isn't American, but because he has international influence, he gave himself permission to interfere in the American election. He doesn't have that sort of influence any more, now that his buddy Donald is no longer president. 3. I don't have any "dream of kicking someone fallen down". I don't blame you for not speaking perfect English - is is clearly not your mother-tongue, but if you should realise your limitations, and be circumspect about replying to posts that you have not understood - and it is very obvious to anybody who does understand English that you did not understand my post. I don't respond to posts in Russian. I said "If we make Russia suffer, we will be kicking the people who have fallen down." In other words, I sympathise with the common Russian people, who will inevitably suffer more than the wealthier people as a result of the international sanctions. When I said "The upper crust never does (suffer)", that refers to all societies, anywhere in the world. If there are sanctions, or inflation, or difficult financial circumstances, the wealthy always know how to protect themselves. It's always the poor people who suffer most. For example, when a company fails, the employees are left without a job, and without income - but the boss always leaves with his pockets full. 4. Anything I say is only opinion. It doesn't make any difference to anything, and it most certainly won't influence whether Putin is president or not - so you can relax!

@@DownhillAllTheWay you know, what different between yours and russian mental? when u say something - u can easy say, ow, that is nothing, it is "mine own opinion" only.. but in Russia we say: if u call urself mushroom - welcome to bucket. that means if u tell something - u are able to do something, or u have to do - it is a principe, life law. Ur verbs = ur deal. dont speak if u dont able to do. U r what u talk, coz ur talk means ur action. if someone talk idle and dont do that he talk - we call him ringingless = thash man that doesnt inspire confidence u can play that u didnt say that or this, but if i (and other rus people) understand u this way, u need to think, that u did something wrong. and also i see that u dont understand ur mistake, so i tried to explained another way: i didnt intervene in US elections, i dont know anyone russian who did this, and i m dont thinking that Putin did this or he is interesting with this. Also i can say that im dont care about kind ur democracy until it is not inside my country. But u did, u came to my home and told me what is democracy and what is not. in rus we sad this: dont come with ur rules into alien church

👏I was thinking the same, the debate was so disappointing

Well said.

Yes. When I went to university in the US, even the engineering students had to study humanities. We had to learn how to make an argument based on facts and logic, get all sides, and decide which side was better supported. Of course it was during the Vietnam war. We learned that, if you are assigned to design an ICBM to deliver a nuclear bomb, you should ask yourself whether your country should be delivering nuclear bombs in the first place.

Dumb oxford students! Short-circuited Brain Cells, but they may be developing their connections

" I do think it is possible that Putin would operate under bad faith". No shit, Sherlock!

After derailing the Russia-Europe energy relationship, Biden is witnessing that the prices for gas are skyrocketing in Europe, and Washington has no solutions to the grave situation that is developing. The spot market price for gas has zoomed to 8 times the price at which Russia had been supplying Germany. (Russia has announced that w.e.f Thursday, it has shut down the Yamal-Europe gas pipeline which is the trunk route transporting gas to German market.) "Expert opinion is that if oil price touches $125 per barrel, US economy slides into recession."

Probably because the Russians are the ones who invaded Ukraine not only in 2022, but also in 2014

@@scarybird977 reason was same as of now

So you are saying Russia should control and have a say on who wants to join NATO or not? How does that work?

@@darksector1389 the geopolitics is not that black and white. NATO should have considered the security concerns of Russia.or Why does america stops iran from becoming a nuclear state. Shouldn't this be the decision of IRAN.

@@manmeetkumarsingh531 love this comment . lol

It was an American trap to bring Putin thru sanction and the Rest of the Russian Federation in turmoil at the expense of Ukraine

Exactly!

It looks like America is promulgating WW3. It has been coming on in Ukraine since 2014 with the overthrow of the pro Russian government and supporting the Neo Nazis. Putting them into power was insidious.

Yes. It is a scary thought.. Here comes WW3. Kids from rich parents who only want to take over the world and line their already rich pockets

oxford university died along time ago. this is a skeleton crew of mediocre students. now, a once powerful university, is a hugbox of low achieving marxists, only there to keep the machine running.

Even Gorbachev said that there never was a promise to not expand NATO. Even if they had, Russia's argument is with NATO, not Ukraine whose people have every right to be free and associate witho they want.

in russia it is call "tik-tok generation" - that means i am doing action but donno what and why in shot circle, it is mind virus . this kids cant thinking consistently by facts, only emotions and mems in random chain of text. thay understanding only two ways - business or war.

@@tschorsch this isnt about whether promises about nato were made, its about THE EXPANSION ITSELF. nato, is just israeli foreign policy. has no business in christendom. sorry, buddy.

@@meti616 bravo

I dont think they are being taught or aloud to think critically and outside of the box. They are just regurgitaing what they have learnt and believing it. Its the plan to accomplish the NEW WORLD ORDER.

These Students should carefully watch Some More News, Adam Something and Hbomberguy. And maybe Sir Sic.

Could it be that we are dealing with a fairly simple black and white problem, for once? Putin has wanted for decades to regain all the territory of former USSR. This is cut and dry. The youth at Oxford are thinking very well. Unfortunately, that isn't the case for some of the commentators here.

@@lisbetsoda4874 It is cut and dry for Putin but what is 'cut and dry' for U.S and NATO allies? See, that's what's missing in the discourse. For this issue to be solved and resolved both or maybe all parties needs to acknowledge their wrong deeds. Only than will they compromise. But these are the views from the outsiders like myself and few others.

This is not even a debate. With some lock, a "monologate" 🤣

Yeah !!!you are absolutely right ...

Thank you for putting up this comment

@@adrianabraham8241 I think there might be voting afterwards. It's young people gaining skills in presentation. A training exercise if you will. I just enjoyed it for what it was.

@@kevinu.k.7042 Then, do not call it "debate". On the other hand, they have a lot of skills to gain regarding taking into consideration different sources and putting opposed arguments face to face. Only such an exercise can get us closer to truth. Having great presentation skills only can be useless if not dangerous.

and they are ur future leaders, this kids

Ye they just do t know .. no one teaches them and they do t speak Russian

@@vladlast5507 that u say ll actually joke in ww3, welcome

These kids sound more like Parliamentarians echoing all known rhetoric on the 'morals' associated with 'friendship'. None reflected that UK and US have been 'quiet' about their role in the Budapest Memorandum and Security Assurances made at the OSCE Conference on 5 Dec 1994 leading to the disarmament of nuclear weapons in return for the protection of Ukraine's sovereignty. 🤷🏻‍♂️ I don't think these students are sufficiently grounded on the 'facts' to argue new premises to stop Russia, repel the aggressor and restore Ukraine's sovereignty.

dont forget the ukrainians genocide against wolhynia when they killed women and children with farm tools.

Go home russian bot.

@@deepcoder1845 sorry i am not from ruassia, and i oppose any action of invasion, Ukriane and Russia crisis not just happened this year, maybe they should debate deeper to the core, like your name , be a deep debater

NATO never promised not to expand eastward.

@@davidgullberg2145 The promise by James Baker (US Secretary of State) to Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9 1990: “NATO will not move one inch further east”

@@davidgullberg2145 right there is no such things as promise in politics

It's a war Russia is guaranteed to lose.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 really well framed. Everyone only seems to be looking at the macro, without taking the history & realpolitik into account..

get lost with you propaganda - for last 300 years russian imperialist conquered nation after nation Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, Estonia, Ukraine, Finland, again Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Hungary, Chechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Georgia, Chechenya and so on and on. People died sent by Russians to Siberia. Putin planed war for years because he wants back all the lands which were in possesion of the empire. Anything else is just a 'active measurements" propaganda.

Putin is a devil, the same like Stalin.

@@questionmark7045 Yes and it was with with consent of USA, UK France after the war.

He's right.

If you'd followed the evolution of education the last 10 years, you would not be surprised at all.

lol one cannot convince half of American to wear masks properly, thus 'good people' won't suffer themselves to have paper on their faces; and you think that you grasp that speaker's point about moral progress?

The irony being there are bright, high IQ little mass murdering monsters in waiting at academic institutions in Russia and China too saying the same thing about “good people” having to suffer to “build a better future”. Let’s see that second guy say the same thing if his own life happens to be one of those being sacrificed so others can build a better future. Fkn kids.

The dude is the future's Napoleon.

Absolutely true

Sello C: You’re only looking at this problem from two viewpoints, whilst omitting the third. Russia going West and the West going East. You fail to take into account that Eastern Europe has made the free decision, in the main, to see their future westwards. Many populations of former Soviet states have first and second hand remembrance of that time and do not wish a repeat. Russia can’t attract these sovereign nations based on what it has to offer so, resorts to force to impose its will. Russia (Putin), behaves like a scorned lover. Putin can’t come to terms with rejection but, rejected he is. The free world needs to decide best how to deal with this vain despot. Something that has already been put off for far too long. The Xe’s, Putin’s and Kim’s of this world etc., etc., have no place on our planet. Ukraine has many internal problems. A history of rampant corruption being but just one. Freedom of choice is an important first step. With good will, the rest will hopefully follow. The “democratic political system” of governance has many faults. Going to war with each other does not tend to be one of them.

You are correct , the West is seemingly offering more. Im not against freedom of expression, in fact it’s what we fought for. Im saying that one has to view this conflict in the context it bears. The US and Europe in my view hyped Ukraine up thinking that they will do everything to support them. It made Ukraine perhaps too daring. NATO is a defensive alliance . Was it really that necessary for this to be sought at all costs knowing the position that Russia was taking and that NATO was not gonna take an offensive position. All this destruction and displacement of innocent people , was it really worth it Was there not an option for Ukraine just to exist without seeking to be part of a historically anti defensive alliance as would be viewed by Russia . Ukraine couid have all the relations it wanted with Europe from trade and everything else but just not NATO membership. There needed to be cooler heads and better leadership so as not have ramped up the anti giving Ukraine the notion that the west and Europe were gonna do everything possible Of course they have reacted with sanctions but in reality that did not save Ukraine but rather is serving as the catalyst now. It has to be also said though that perhaps Russia Wouid have invaded Ukraine anyhow even if they stayed clear of NATO membership but in my view it was better to chance that then to witness what we are now seeing

The West isn’t expanding. Eastern European countries see that aligning with the west is the way to go to secure future generations.

@@genoric4094 That may be so. The notion that everything Eurocentric is better has its roots in many a conflict. Be that as it may , in this particular case there is a historical perspective that couid not have been ignored and what troubles me really is that there was no compromise on Ukraines position with the end result been what we are now witnessing A country and a people destroyed just about The rhetoric from the west and Europe emboldened Ukraine to have adopted such a rigid stance. Couid it he said that the west built them up thinking they would cover their backs so to speak , they were shockingly disappointed Was it not an option to remain neutral and still have bilateral ties with Europe and its neighbours but just not seek affiliation to a defensive alliance like NATO ? What benefit to future generations comes about exclusively with NATO membership? The human suffering is tragic.

Two Minutes Hate.

True

Spot on.

Yeah I thought this was going to be a discussion not propaganda!

i think u got lots mind problems with ur tv propaganda and tik-tok flower rainbow generation. it is mass intellect degradation, cus u lie too much. so u got only one idiots way to thinking for next idiots, mem's virus in action

I’d hope that applicants to the university would never be discriminated against because of nationality. If China invaded Taiwan that doesn’t mean that Chinese students couldn’t be desperately unhappy in their home country and use the chance to study abroad as an opportunity to escape.

@@i-am-batman8538 "that Chinese students couldn’t be desperately unhappy in their home country and use the chance to study abroad as an opportunity to escape." Is that why they are studying abroad?

Duh. Universities are the biggest participants in the thousand talents program 🤝🇨🇳✔️✔️✔️✔️

@@HansKeesom I don't know where you get that from, but my point is that it's a dangerous precedent to use essentially race as a negative factor in applications as it has no baring on whether an individual student supports the regime in which they were born into. Some may want to study abroad to get away sure, not all but it's a valid point.

Question for Michael Richards: If the US invaded Iraq, should colleges continue to accept lucrative investment and students from the US?

light vs dark.oh my😂😂😂

Okay when Pakistan nukes India then by your logic world shouldn't cover it as news.

You are lucky, the bias is nauseating.

True.. send them into conflict zones and they would run a mile! All they do is sound intelligent with very little knowledge. I was shocked to see this level of thinking from a world reknowned University. Brainless, to say the least

Then discussions may be?

Why just CNN and BBC... Why not Fox News or Al Jazeera or OAN or TV3 or other news outlets...?

48% voted to stay and that number is increasingly higher when looking at university students and young people in general.

40% of eu fertilizers come from Russia or Belarus...car industry depent on metals as palladium,iron etc. all of it is from Russia...17% of global grain..Russia 12% from Ukraine...eu will pay highest cost of it..

The sanctions pressure from the West will be felt by Russian cats and their owners. Now, not a single cat, the owner of which lives in our country, from March 1 to May 31 will not be allowed to the exhibition outside the Russian Federation. Such sanctions against Russian animals The International Cat Federation (FIFE) imposed sanctions due to a special military operation in Ukraine. . :"(

So few likes for a great wise opinion. That's a shame. US intentionally derailed the German-Russia alliance over natural gas / oil. They always feared the possibility of a strong Alliance between Russian resources and German / EU industry and technology. Now they derailed this, Europe suffers the cost while the US has the least impact by these sanctions, and I'm afraid US never intended to help EU in this situation. Everyone repeating the same lines, that Russia will crumble under the power of sanctions, I seriously doubt that. Ordinary Russian people will not suffer because they cannot buy iPhone, Gucci, Zara, IKEA... But ordinary Europeans will suffer when they will meet food prices increase over 50%, gas prices will surge like never before. Electricity bills, and likely every goods and services will have a price increase, that will demolish ordinary European households to the ground. And for what? Because we so much want to welcome Ukraine in our ranks? Russia warned EU several times that there is a red line. What was the expectation? Russia will do nothing and sees through the west expansion towards there borders. They were clear that Ukraine closing to the EU is an existential threat to them. But we had to push forward. Propaganda says, Russia is in bankruptcy (semi - bankrupt). Normally that is a great problem, when you have a great volume of international trade. But the west quit from trading with Russia, as US strike with their new weapon: CANCEL-culture.:D Now even if Russia would stop, and retreat, the international trade isn't going to recover any time soon ( in 5-10yr) So, than why Russia should bother to pay out their enemies? And let's assume that Russia will crack under the sanctions? What are you going to do with the 140 million population of a devastated economy of Russia? Will you help them as you willing to help the Ukrainians? And how long will you willing to help them, when your own people is also going to suffer due to the very sanction they used to crack Russia? What alternatives Russia has got from the west? Do they have any alternative way out of this war that worth over the invasion. West said, stop, retreat, and than we will might talk about your possibilities. That is not an alternative, I bet the Russians rather shoot Ukraine into oblivion before they will listen to the US alternative proposition. Peace with you my friend. I wish you good health and strength.

@@Tristan87688 In fact of the matter! I don't give a shit about an iphone that I never liked. And the fact that, by and large, the United States to shit on Europe is a fact. You choose the government shit.

Europe made a rash decision to carry out sanctions which will severely harm there own economies

We all know that the intended mission is to drain the swamp, but it's hard to think logically about the objective when you're up to the ass in aligators.

These are the young idealogical leaders of Europe for the future. Thats how ww3 could be triggered in the future.

@@mikeandersson7962 Generation Z = Generation War. World War 3 is World War Z. Z is the last letter of the alphabet. World War 3 will be mainly fought by Generation Z. Can you see why?

I love how people in the west are convinced that they live in a “democracy” and an “open society”. At least the people in North Korea aren’t under some illusion of being free. The west is literally why aliens won’t talk to us.

Embarrassing

Thanks

thats why the world have something like human rights, so that even with democracy, majority cannot violate something basic like the right to live, freedom and so on

Just Europe, or the UK for that matter. The rest of humankind are doing just fine without them.

There's much better stock in other universities. People just focus on these elites ones when most of the students are only book smart and pretty dumb in real life situations.

😂😂😂

They dont seem to know a lot.. They have never hear of Alexander Dugin - Russian geo political scientist either. To get an understanding of the war you have to study both sides. They seem to get their information from America.

@Johnson Li well, I get your point and agree with you! However, my point was regarding to these students, that all of them talking against Russia, but not even one dares to criticize NATO provocation Russia to this war

Yugoslavian conflict is more of an internal conflict or ethnic conflict. Whereas the ongoing Ukraine-Russia war is between two sovereign states.

Great YT video on The Death of Yugoslavia is on KEITH WOODS channel.

@@kch2810 BS, NATO bombing yugoslavia was internal? How dumb are you?

Also had the war in Chechnya as well as the war in Georgia which as far as I know is in Europe. The invasion of Cyprus. The troubles in Ireland with the IRA, however maybe Britain isn't a part of Europe. The conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan, which may also be considered borderline. I know those are nowhere near ww2 numbers but this invasion has quite a ways to go before it can be comparable to ww2.

@@kch2810 You're quite naive if you think that.

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Democracy is a carrot and a stick

Agreed! Was looking for this opinion among all the Western-narrative but unfortunately didn't see anyone echo this yet!

I’m not university educated but i enjoy educated opinions , I think your point is fair and represents the best outcome for everyone , especially as the alternative is Armageddon really

This is a poor take but grounded somewhat in reality. By saying we need to work with Russia to make concessions and give them a way out, you're validating their false claims that they are entitled to annex Ukraine. It doesn't matter what media you're using to assess this conflict, the objective facts are: Russia has invaded Ukraine without a valid reason; it's leader is filled with the expansionism bug and wants to restore the Soviet Union. We cannot and should not allow this to stand. Ukraine is a sovereign democratic nation and has the right to self-determination. That being said, you are correct in saying we need to offer a way out for Putin to end this war without escalation into the Batlics, Georgia, Finland, Sweden or Moldova. As we've seen clearly demonstrated, Russia would lose any conventional war with NATO, quite possibly even without major support from the US. This fact is the one which could escalate this into a nuclear conflict, when Putin feels like it's his only option left. So what do we do? Well yes, we offer a way out but it cannot be cost-free but it can save face for Putin in the interim. How do the world draft a peace deal that Putin would accept and save him from making a fool of himself? - Russia immediately withdraws all personnel and hardware from Ukraine. This includes Luhansk and the Donbass. - UN hold independence elections in Luhansk and the Donbass, free and fair elections. Ukraine accept this loss of territory, keeping hold of it will only result in potential uprisings and conflict in the future. Crimea is the only area of contention here because the Ukrainians want it back this will remain a flashpoint for the future; a 50-year lease by the Russian govt. might solve this with the promise of an independence election after that time so Crimea can determine its own fate; before these 50 years however the Russians have no right to drill the Black Sea for Ukrainian natural gas that would be within their zone of economic interest. - Russia agree to pay moderate reparations to Ukraine, these can't resemble the treaty of Versailles or you'll breed a larger conflict further down the line. - Ukraine may join the EU and NATO and must be respected as a sovereign nation by Russia. The UK, EU, US and allies will rebuild Ukraine into a stronger power both economically and militarily. The Russians have to eat this as the consequences of their actions but it may take 5-10 years for this to happen; Putin likely will be dead or ousted by then, this won't matter. NATO could make concessions that it will not store weapons or personnel there during times of peace in order to keep Russia happy but if there is any aggression directed towards Ukraine, they can invoke an article to enable military build up, again this is the price the Russians pay. - Sanctions on Russia will slowly be ramped down over 24-36 months provided they adhere to the peace deal agreement however sanctions will be reinstated should any aggression or non-adherance take place. This is enough to give Dictator Putin an 'out' without embarrassing himself - you could also add in a UN DMZ between Donbass and Luhansk if you feel conflict could continue with seperatists and either ultra far right nationalists or the Ukrainian military. This is likely the sort of deal that results in lasting peace but you cannot allow the Russians to not feel a squeeze, this was their expansionist campaign, not Ukraines'.

@@saraf5414 Don't look for opinions that support your own. Look for the opposite and think for yourself, don't get spoon-fed Russian propoganda and eat it up. It's telling that one nation is stopping protests and confiscating their citizens phones so they can't see what's going on in Ukraine whilst the West has a free press that can report what it chooses. One side is hiding what it's doing whilst the other doesn't.

@Lilac CZK What do you mean "Is it because I'm a foreigner" - are you pedalling the 'Russo-phobia' narrative? Because if you are you're complicit with Putin. A country of 144 million and only 4500 arrested for protesting the war? Sounds like a country of cowards to me. Blood is spilled in overthrowing dictators, Russians don't have the stomach.

insightful comment, thank you for the information and for putting the issue in context.

While this information is thorough, it seems to be preamble without any subsequent point or argument. It's not exactly a secret that a primary factor in this invasion was Ukraine's involvement with NATO. But what is the point you're making? That therefore such an invasion was justified and could somehow be construed as 'self-defense', because a sovereign state was intending to join a non-aligned alliance?

@@mnpa6154 The Russians are accused of conducting an unprovoked war and their president portrayed as a madman in the media. It is also asserted in the media that Russian claims of prospective NATO membership for Ukraine as a reason, was unjustified as Ukraine had 'no prospect of membership'. This information contradicts that narrative establishes that at the highest levels of government both Ukraine and NATO countries were quite advanced in their talks on membership with the crystallizing moment for membership in a time period of months. I am not writing an essay or attempting to debate in depth all the issues around the Russia-Ukraine crisis, what I'm attempting to do is point out salient facts that are not addressed by the Oxford Union debate or missed by the responses I read from the commentariat below.

@@mnpa6154 The Ukraine has always been a red line for Russia. Putin has made that publicly clear since the 2007 Munich Security Conference and again after the NATO Summit in Bucharest 2008. Russia’s invasion of Georgia mere months after that Summit wasn’t to steal potato chips - it was a direct demonstration of what would happen if Russian security was messed with. Russia is especially paranoid about the Ukraine. 4 times over the past 4 centuries an invading army from the West has tried to dissolve the Russians, using the North European Plain (of which the Ukraine forms the single largest area) as a superhighway into Russia’s heartland, where over 80% of Russia’s population resides. The NEP is the largest unobstructed plain in the world and the only way to defend it under modern military doctrine is through the use of tanks. It’s the reason why Russia has one-fifth of the world’s armour deployed along their border facing Westward, more tanks than the US, China, Germany and France combined. What is so hard to understand? The US was willing to risk nuclear Armageddon over an island off its Southern coast barely larger than Maine. If the Chinese entered into a military and economic cooperation pact with a deeply anti-American Mexico government and started equipping and training Mexican soldiers while setting up forward facing military equipment along the Rio Grande, is there any doubt the US would raze Mexico City to the ground and turn it into a parking lot before allowing that to continue, sovereign nation or no. Putin is a tyrannical dictator, no doubt, but it’s perfectly legitimate for Russia to view NATO expansion on its doorstep as an existential threat. The history of invasion from the West through the North European Plain is seared into the minds of every military trainee in Russia’s war academies. It’s not just Putin. They literally have 4 centuries worth of pretty reliable data on what happens when you let your guard down in the Ukraine. And whether NATO means it when they say “we come in peace” is irrelevant if all the Russians see is a mortal threat inching closer. You are the first person I have encountered anywhere of any political persuasion to claim NATO is a “non-aligned alliance”. Perhaps you meant UNESCO…

@@JA-pn4ji That's fair of course, and KZfaq comments are not the place for a comprehensive discussion of the facts. However, I would only point out that I have had a different experience, where most speakers I have come across have acknowledged the simple fact that NATO was working toward gaining at least a non-member partner in Ukraine. But in any case, since they are a sovereign state, they are allowed to choose this path for themselves, so military action against them for simply pursuing a partnership remains unlawful, unjust, and immoral.

that are modern trends of mind manipulation to get information maximum emotional. You got this result, because u have it in mass culture, memes replaced human personality, memes copy theirselves, and u got individual without rational thinking skill.

Yes. Dreadful stuff. Unfortunately Globalisation has destroyed democracy, just saying.

Well said. Finlandisation offered a viable path to Ukrainian security and prosperity. It’s worked in variations all over the world.

Simple, this is not about Ukraine's best interests. Zelensky main agenda, just like any other politicians in power is to keep that power I found it odd that he played the riskiest card in the deck for Ukraine by joining NATO, but I think that will cement his political standing. His approval rating was below 50% prior to the war.

@@intothemoat you have to be joking? Can you think of a reason why Ukraine doesn’t want to be under a vicious Russian dictator? Because i can think of about seven million reasons. My family is in Ukraine and everything youve said here is ignorant and a lie. They’re not fighting for Z’s administration, that’s ridiculous. They’re fighting because of the horror found under Russian control. Need a lesson on that?

NATO encroachment is simply an excuse for Putin to do what he’s doing for one very big and obvious reason, the greatest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world. Russia, as Putin and everyone knows, is not an invadable country. Further, Ukraine has a moral and real motive to be a part of a defensive alliances and ignoring that to appease a vicious dictator is immoral. Why on earth have such an alliance if not to protect the vulnerable states? Just as nuclear russia isn’t invadable, major nuclear nato states arent invadable. So what purpose does the alliance serve if not to protect the non-nuclear, or in this case, de-nuclearized states?

@@trevorharrison1989 The US was willing to risk nuclear Armageddon over an island off its Southern coast barely larger than Maine at a time their arsenal was larger than all other countries combined. If the Chinese entered into a military and economic cooperation pact with a deeply anti-American Mexico government and started equipping and training Mexican soldiers while setting up forward facing military equipment along the Rio Grande, is there any doubt the US would raze Mexico City to the ground and turn it into a parking lot before allowing that to continue. Having nuclear deterrence does not mean you get to ease off the pedal and let mortal enemies gain strategic territories on your doorstep. That’s not how it works. Putin is a tyrannical dictator I get that, but there are no clean hands in geopolitics. If you are truly interested in security and prosperity for the people of Ukraine, neutrality would have offered a viable option. It’s worked for Finland for 75 years right next to Russia. Same for Sweden. Same for Singapore. Same for South Korea. Same for Switzerland. Same for Mongolia. Same for Austria. When you’re geographically stuck in a tough neighbourhood where the national interests of major powers bigger than you intersect, neutrality is an effective option. None of this should be foreign to you if you’re Ukrainian. You should know your own history. Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in 1994 under the Budapest Memorandum in exchange for security commitments from the U.S., UK and Russia - provided Ukraine remained neutral. Neutrality was written into Ukraine’s modern constitution for that reason, to maintain the balance between Russia and NATO, neither of which any country should trust. That all went out the window when Poroshenko then Zelansky took power and naively re-wrote the constitution to openly pave the way for EU/NATO membership, daring Russia to do something because they thought NATO would step in. Well, NATO haven’t stepped in, and they won’t. None of this should be a surprise - except apparently to Poroshenko and Zelensky. People fawn over them for flexing in front of cameras and demonstrating their bravery, but I would prefer to lionize leaders who know how to avoid avoidable conflicts instead of miscalculating badly and getting their people killed. Geopolitics is hard. Not getting killed is hard. This is why in a democracy the people must choose their leader wisely. My prayers to your loved ones in Ukraine.