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"The thunderbolt is huge but she's a whole 'lotta Rosie." I think we now need a DCS livery featuring a redheaded pinup with the name "Whole 'Lotta Rosie"

Never underestimate the capacity for Australian auotmotive engineers to come up with a bodge job better than the original.

Douglas MacArthur was too much the prima donna to allow someone as famous as Doolittle around and attracting limelight.

McArthur had a massive ego. There is no way he'd tolerate sharing the spotlight with a general who was far more famous than him.

Okay now we're gonna need an hour long video on why you'd build a liquid-cooled radial

I love how the whole p47 range thing is a thorn in Greg's side and he has the the receipts as to why. Gregs use of primary sources is what makes his videos excellent

"we have a chart for that" - Greg

The effort the US 5th Airforce flying out of Australia seems very much under appreciated. The ground crews worked in the most appalling primitive conditions. Their efforts were super human.

Based on everything I have learnt about Dugout Doug on the Pacific War Podcast I'm sure he rejected Doolittle as he didn't want anyone to overshadow him

The thing that popped out at me when I listened to your debate over P-47/P-51 range in Europe, was that it had never occurred to anyone to standardize not only the tanks for all the various models, but the mountings, release mechanisms, feeding, pumps, etc... I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if this was possible, but it seems to a layman like me, that it could be feasible. It's not like they hadn't foreseen the need for external fuel stores, as all the US fighters had plumbed hardpoints from the beginning. So it baffles me that no one saw the need to say, "we need to standardize various tank volumes, tank mountings, etc... on all of our fighters so that they can used interchangeably."

Greg: The detail in this video is the icing on the cake in the already brilliant case you made in your recent debate with Mr. Marshall, in which you effectively devastated the myth that the disastrous 8th Air Force losses in 1943 were due to the unavailability of a fighter with sufficient range to provide escort cover. The Bomber Mafia's refusal to equip P-47s with drop tanks was, in my view, criminally negligent. Superb work, as usual. Looking forward to the follow-up video on actual Pacific theater missions. - Vito

I need to stop 5 minutes in. The total shit for brains incompetence of senior staffers in the Army Air Force and subsequent U.S. Air Force blows my mind. I will return to this later. Greg your channel is amazing.

'Uncle' Greg, you have proven your point beyond any further resistance. All must submit.

I'm born and bred in Brisbane. and it is Eagle Farm not Eagle farms . Thanks for pronouncing Brisbane correctly .

This video perfectly demonstrates how difficult is to solve even seemingly simple problems

Greg, I am certainly delighted you chose to highlight General George Kenny. The Kenny Reports has been in my library for 45 years. I admire his ability to recognize the talents of his "kids", to think outside the box, and do more with less than any other commander. It would be great to see a video regarding Kenny, "Pappy' Gunn, the Commerce Destroyer B-25s, and skip bombing. I've heard others say skip bombing was developed by the Aussies and Brits, but I believe Kenny and his "kids" were the first.

Eagle Farm (no "S") became a landing field in about the mid-1920s. It is famous for Kingsford-Smith's arrival there at the conclusion of the first flight across the Pacific (amongst a few others). The original airport built there was much closer to the City. It was about 5 miles downstream from the main reach of the river, which contained most of the domestic port infrastructure at the town. Larger ships berthed at Hamilton which is much closer to the airport. There was a military wharf there too. There is a major rock bar across the river nearby which ultimately led to all of the port facilities being relocated to the river mouth today. A big bridge goes right above the rock bar now. In 1942 the main airport was at Archerfield which is today a general aviation airport in Brisbane's south. The main RAAF field was and is Amberley just south of Ipswich, a separate city, to Brisbane's south west. Initially, aircraft were unloaded from ships near Hamilton and towed/trucked out to Amberley for construction by the RAAF airframe fitters there. This was mainly P40s and P39s with a few P38s thrown in. B26s seem to have been flown directly into Archerfield, but don't quote me on that one. In February 1942 ships were diverted to Brisbane whilst en-route to the Phillipines. Army personnel were initially bivouaced at the Eagle Farm race course. It was a swampy area with heat, rain and mosquitoes and it was late summer. There was nothing for them to do and movement was restricted. Morale wasn't high. The traffic and general inefficiency required a massive adjustment. The US rapidly decided to fund upgrades to the port facilities and a major upgrade to the Eagle Farm Airport so that aircraft arriving by ship could be assembled there. Additional freight areas were built for storage and redistribution. An amazing amount of those buildings (re-purposed) still stand today and are easily found. A new Eagle farm airport was constructed to replace the WW2 build and was opened during the bi-centenary year 1988. It is to the north of the old airport but shares some of its infrastructure at the south end. Interestingly the first aircraft to use the new airport (before it officially opened) was the visiting USAAF Thunderbird team who decided to put on a full impromptu display there after seeking permission to use the fully ready but not opened main runway. Impressed by the AC/DC reference too! Thanks.

Great video, the debate left me about 90% sure you were in the right, and I am fully convinced now.

LOVE that recent color image of the Brisbane tank just past 20 minutes in - it gives me all the structural details the wartime images seem to lack. The hanger hardware is more elegant and slender than the earlier images seemed to indicate. Thanks, Greg! (Edit, after watching to the end) Thanks also for the details on the aft internal tank mod!

I never realized how much of a problem a dumb drop tank could become. I just figured it was a fuel-tight elliptical metal tank that could be manufactured by anybody as easy as pie.

Jees, where to start. Firstly Greg, thank you for what you do. This is a quality product, my favourite channel by far. Im a relatively clued up warbird nerd, have grown up in an aviation family and work as a powerplant engineer for P&W. This said l have learned so much and really want to commend you. Keep it up. Aviation is interesting, (engineering & flying) WW2 aviation is, in my opinion another level of interesting. Well done. Si, Christchurch, New Zealand.

Great video per usual Greg, it’s really cool to see some more content on thunderbolts in the pacific, to me at least the pacific thunderbolts always seem forgotten, until you get to the Novembers escorting B29s

If not mistaken an early war Pacific P-47 is under restoration. Maybe contact them and see if they have found where the extra pump went.

THANK YOU so much. The channel UNAUTHORIZED HISTORY OF THE PACIFIC just touched on the Bomber Mafias impact on the Jug fighter and drop tanks. That, with your in-depth knowledge of technology and areonotics, has given anyone that watches a broad learning experience. Thank you. I am assuming that Ford Australia used their expertise with an ENGLISH WHEEL. This is a transferable skill from the automotive industry that could make in the field drop tank fabrication possible.

I love all the facts and numbers you dig up on your P-47 crusade….

MacArthur didn't want anybody taking his limelight.

Good stuff, Greg, as usual. Looking forward to the next one. I confess that I've never even thought about the P-47 in a Pacific context. I usually think in terms of the P-38 as the USAAF fighter in the Pacific theater until the P-51 arrived. My bad.

This is an awesome follow up to the debate and effectively addresses any challenge to the argument that the range limitations of the P-47 were imposed by intrusive “bomber mafia” policy. The argument is airtight!! The fact that Kenney could solve the problem with a little outsourcing is probably all you need to know and Greg goes way beyond that which is great and adds some humor at times to the video.

Greg: there is no one that quantifies the dynamics of the engineering and the relation of the availability of performance to the pilot, and the potential it could have made in the battle space like you do. I cannot express the quality of your insight to the enthusiast like my self that imagines using the machine in time, and facing the theater opposition while trying to wring out survival in a type. Well done sir!

Thunderstruck by a whole lotta rosie 🤣 Great video as always, thanks Greg.

Small suggestion for future videos: see if you can add a white outline to black text, or black outline to white text, when you overlay it. Or put the text in a contrasting background box. Makes it easier to read without having to pause. Black on partial black (text in the underlying image) is hard to read quickly.

I instantly thought the reason Doolittle not getting job, was a hero with larger than life profile. Dug out Doug would have hated anybody with Public profile be as big as his own.

While you've definitely changed my mind on the P-47 with your excellent series of videos regarding this airplane (including this one as the latest), I do hope you'll cover in depth that other somewhat overlooked red-headed stepchild (compared with the Corsair) of WW2 in the Hellcat someday. :) I know you've included it in various videos (like the Corsair and Hellcat vs the FW-190 and Bf-109) but I keep holding out hope you'll cover the remaining R2800 fighter of the war with its own video someday.

Eye opening for sure. Fantastic video. Sad how many good men died because of large egos.

I could get college credits on WW2 drop tanks after watching these shows. Thanks!

I absolutely love the detail of doing flight calculations! Can't wait for the missions video.

LMAO the Peter-47 picture at 8:30

I read War Plan ORANGE at the Naval Warfare College 16 years ago and I still love the book.

literally saw Bonnie fly in St. Louis this past Sunday.

"Whole lotta Rosey" Nice reference 😀

Was only just getting started with mainland Japan when the war ended “raising hell”, as described by a senior officer at the time

Great work on this topic. It makes a lot of sense. A somewhat related topic are the local weapons that Australia produced when WW2 started and England could no longer be relied upon for supply. The CAC Boomerang fighter, Sentinel tank, and Owen gun being notable examples. They may not have been cutting edge, or ended up being as needed due to US supply becoming available, but it was a very large effort from a small population with a small industrial base.

Re your reference to the loss of 27 P-51s on 6/1/45: fuel shortage had no bearing on this; Mustangs escorting B-29s on mission to Osaka attempted to punch through a solid weather front, encountered severe thunderheads and were flying blind in extreme turbulence; some were lost in mid-air collisions and others forced down by winds.

Excellent work! Thanks for giving me excellent info for my occasional trips to the National Museum of the USAF with friends and visitors to the area. I’m not any kind of a pilot, so your work is very educational.

Robert S. Johnson's book made me love the P-47.

Greg - in the past, I have praised you as a historian, which is indisputable. This time, I'm giving you a shout out for the AC/DC "Whole Lotta Rosie" reference - which is entirely appropriate, give the Australian context of this discussion!

Additional Note re:MacArthur. He was very repectful of chain of command and he respected both Marshall and Arnold. His problem was with Brett. Arnold's problem was to replace Brett with a competent leader that could work well with MacArthur. Doolittle was a COLONEL at that time and a couple of years away from being deemed a candidate to command an AIR FORCE. MacArthur's 'ego based adversaries' were Admrals King and Nimitz. Both Kenney and Brett were too low on the pay grade to worry about - even moreso Doolittle. Recall that Mac already had one MOH, plus 2 DSCs and 7 Silver Stars from WWI. He would have respected Doolittle but not as a threat to his limelight. Also recall that Arnold promoted to direct reports Brereton (10th and 9th AF), Chennault (14th AF), Kenney (5th AF - all on the out's pre WWII from the 'bomber mafia'

post war in australia we had childrens petrol driven merry go round with the tanks being modified to carry children and they lasted to the early 70s

Excellent break down. Kenny really did end up being the right person at the right time, as was quite a few WWII leaders. As a side thought think of all the bomber casualties brought on by Bomber Mafia thinking especially in Europe.

I should point out MacArthur thought everyone but himself under delivered, and general kenny was something of a Yes man who Worshipped MacArthur almost as much as MacArthur did

My grandfather served under MacArthur in NG his only comment about him was something about a SOB . Only thing he said about it. 👍 🇺🇲

I suspect there could be some confusion re. tank capacity. Ford Australia would be using an imperial gallon, not a U.S. gallon. The imperial gallon is approximately 20% larger than the U.S. gallon.

Greg you are right with your items 23 to 25. The comment in brackets at item 23 says: from charger to the drop tank. If you run into trouble on german documents, contact me. I will be happy to help. Thanks for your efforts. Best regards.

The fact that Dolittle was famous to the public virtually guaranteed that MacArthur would pick Kinney.

Never ceases to amaze me how many short sighted Armed services can be on allowing details that allow things to work better for all concerned to eventual detrement of forward actions. Even today how often the air force tries to kill the A10. During WWII Look at this tank matter, Look at losses the daylight bombing had before the P51.

Good video, lots of info.Towards the beginning of the video there is a photo of the Brisbane tank built by Ausie Ford that shows the access port toward the front open. It is a round hole and it is secured by 4 blots. That port is large enough to get a good sized fuel pump into the tank plus a float for the fuel level indicator. My guess is that they had an internal fuel pump in the tank and not an external one fitted to bump up the fuel pressure to prevent vapor lock. That seems to me to be the best way to go. Thanks for the excellent explanation.

Into the weeds we go, "Brisben drop tanks" The 5th and their field modifications are cool. Excellent video

Couple of comments: At 12:56 Greg missed the first and second paragraph Clear citation that the 21July 1943 report was about 150gal steel WING tanks - not the 200gal Republic paper Ferry tank. At 12:16 from Boylon's footnotes USAF Study 136 - that the tank built in Australia was 'satisfactory to 17000 feet with the C-9 pump. NOTE that Brisbane tank was capable of 16psi. The Republic tank was capable of 7psi but Republic didn't want it pressurized (15:51). It was deemed unsatisfactory by 8th AF Hough, Zemke, Gabreski, Blakeslee, and documented as such by AAF CO Branshaw in letter to Republic - who also pleaded with Republic to install wing racks and internal fuelin June 1943. Note: Greg's calculations were assuming 300mph+TAS inbound with 200gal tank. The difference in the P-47C Chart between Clean configuation (no drop tank) and 200gal Ferry tank was nearly 80mph cruise speed. Both the Brisbane tank and Republic tanks were Very 'Draggy' Note that Greg posed Fighter Mission in which bomber escort was not considered, either for inbound or outbound legs. In other words, not being tethered in Essing with same ground speed as the bombers. Note that the Gph at the bottom of the chart is ~ 2.1gph and 200mpg IAS not 300+Mph and 2.6gph. As to mission profile Greg assumes straight climb to altitude in a straight line for ETO. Zemke states that with the Republic tank, that they took off, formed and switched to circular climb over the base to 12,000, crossed enemy coast while climbing to 22000, dropped tanks near continent coast and climbed (on internal fuel) to 28000 feet. For SW Pacific operations Greg assumes climb from base to 20000+ when there was no operational reason to climb before entering threat zone, either via over water or to clear the Owen Stanley range. His example of the Wewak MoH mission was climbing to 28000 feet after taking off - but doesn't mention that mission was to/from Lae - only 300mi from Wewak and he needed to get there with altutude advantage. Kearby's mission was also a Fighter Mission, not an Escort mission, which was by 9FG P-38s out of Port Morsby (then Dobudora when 348 moved to Finschafen)so his 'combat mission radius with 20 min mil power, according to Bruning, was ~320mi with 200/220gal steel tank. Also there is no evidence that the Brisbane tank SOP was anything but cruise at mid altitudes for 200-250mi at 17-20K, then climb to combat altitudes as planned after dropping the tank. One of these days someone will produce 5th AF Misson summaries for 348th FG to examine the actual historical facts. As to Republic being 'forced' to adapt to B-7 and B-10 rack compatibilty by the mean 'bomber mafia', every ferry tank, combat tank manufactured in US and UK plus every small to mid-sized bomb adhered to that standard. Bell, Curtiss, Lockheed, Douglas, and North American said "OK" - why did Republic expect special treatment? What happened is that they first did not contemplate external stores for their Interceptor including the XP-47, all P-47Bs and the first 132 P-47Cs that were made in 1942. When they were tasked to replace the P-38 in 8th AF, Republic was behind the power curve compared to NAA and Lockheed which had already installed specified and common wing racks and wing tank fuel systems compatible with every other US aircraft itheP-38, A-36, P-51A and P-51B through 1942.. Greg does a fine job of presentation.

Great video. Big fan of Kirby and his mostly forgotten contributions. Thanks.

26:52 When you consider the Battle of Midway, the SBDs very obviously exceeded their quoted range numbers in their search for the Japanese carrier force. And most of them were still able to make it back to the American carriers.

Greg, A Very credible set of arguments on the feasibility and effectiveness of early AAF drop tank development. You make another well thought through set of rational arguments on the P-47. Thank you and keep up the really, really enjoyable KZfaq videos!

Thanks for covering this, I find much of the early period of pacific war it’s often a bit forgotten. (Also props for nailing the almost-native pronunciation of Brisbane 😊.)

A wonderful account of the pre and post Philippines attack is The Story of Pappy Gunn, Hero of the Southwest Pacific by Sam McGowan. A lot of the material here is detailed.

11:31 Wardair was amazing! RIP Max Ward. what a guy!

Clearly, your channel is one of the best researched, lucid, and intrinsically worthwhile sites on YT. This topic, in particular, to me, represents a significant revision to the historical record regarding escort fighters in WW2. And it's about time. Scapegoating "droptanks" for the USAAF bomber losses in 1943 remains an historical inaccuracy and should be amended. That the Bomber Mafia held fast to its pre-war mantra is unsurprising: But obfuscation of the historical record to cover up strategic failures serves no real purpose.

Coincidences, on top of coincidences. I work just up the road from Hangar 7 at Eagle Farm in Brisbane. Quite a few of the Hangars from WWII are still in use today across Eagle Farm.

Name the war and you get leadership with their preconceived notions of what is supposed to be rather than what is effective, such as WWII drop tanks, Korean war no crossing the Yalu to hit Communist Chinese airfields (some later admitted they did) to the heavy restrictions on US fighters over North Viet Nam which basically wiped out much of the superiority of US fighters. Apparently some of those who lead the war feel the need to restrict those actually fighting the war, be it air, sea or ground. Great video and answers a lot of questions of us who don't fly in a very understandable fashion.

OMG! Your attention to techcnical and mathematical detail is mind boggling. But on another matter you surpass even that level of expertise. You are the only American I have ever heard correctly pronounce the name "Brisbane". That is, the way we do. Onya mate🍺

Amazing how well the US did considering how many branches had these kinds of nonsensical infighting(at least they weren't the IJA and IJN I suppose). Mark 14 torpedo, tank destroyer branch vs armor branch and probably many others caused huge problems that shouldn't have been a problem if people had just rubberstamped something instead of hoarding control.

As ever Greg, just a fantastic in-depth look at a subject. Well researched, well edited, well delivered.

I don't understand why McArthur is so highly regarded today.

I love it when history YTers go to period documentation to make their case. Great stuff Greg. You really laid out the facts and data from the period primary sources.

So looking forward to this!

the P47 is the unsung hero of the war as far as fighters go. edit: Glad you mentioned the manual leaning, a lot of people dont know about that either.

Enjoyed this video, and I am looking forward to the next one about operations.

Well that settles the P47 drop tank issue for me

A very welcome return to form. A very interesting video.

Man, the guys on a certain WW2 aviation website are going to be going into vapor lock....

Thank you Greg! Great stuff.

Loved the design of the P38 since I was a kid. Mosquito too of course, but you know, it's got wood.

I got to see Bonnie (the restored P47 Razorback Greg mentioned) at her firsr airshow debut at EAA last year and by God was she a beautiful sight. I can't wait to see her again this summer

Great vid, love the ac/dc reference and the Ward air tri jet. Ward Air was based in my province of Alberta. Love the bomber mafia reference too!

Thanks for the excellent video and research

Excellent analysis as always Greg, thank you!

Another great video from Greg. He really does his research and homework.

As for the Drop Tank Mafia, you should do one on the Revolt of the Admirals.

Wow! Thanks for the great information and the PDF. Really interesting video.

Again, excellent work!

Greg I love the fact that you a/ pronounce Brisbane correctly and b/ added an AC/DC reference re the Thunderbolt!!

Excellent episode as usual!

I tend to think Douglas MacArthur avoided the bomber mafia because he was a member of the group of officers who court-martialed Billy Mitchell. Not only did the mafia members dislike him for it, but Mitchell had been a friend from MacArthur's childhood, and MacArthur was very conflicted by the decision. He was thought to have voted against the decision, but that cannot be proven. He dealt with the that conflict by avoidance. He chose an outsider because Doolittle was one of those who held him responsible for the court -martial.

Hi Greg, always excited to see another of your videos. My Grandfather navigated in a B24 Liberator for the RAAF bombing Rabaul etc and was flying back from one of those raids when the Japanese attacked Darwin so had to get rerouted to Cairns. I would love any more vids on these guys as I never got to talk to him about it.

Absolutely excellent research and content, Greg. So interesting and entertaining. Really unique work! 😉👍

A great interesting and informative video.

I love Greg's lectures.

Great video Greg !!!!!!!

36:57 damn good picture...! Looks awesome, one can only see little white tails cruising

Greg if i was a fighter pilot in ww2 i wouldn't want to be in any other plane other than Republic P47 Thunderbolt they got the design fundamentally right, personally for me it personifies every thing good about American engineering, i hated aircraft that placed a fuel tank in front of the pilot with the glaring obvious danger of incinerating the pilot in his seat once it was ignited by enemy cannon, or flak impacts etc. Greg your contribution to ww2 aviation technical histories and developments of various aircraft types on you tube is absolutely outstanding in every respect and i hold it in the highest regard and wish thank you so much for all your hard work and endless research on this important subject of ww2. you are the go to person for this type of in depth knowledge and analysis.

Wardair...wow thats a throwback here in Canada