Hi Peter

Really love your videos

Plz give my shoutout

You should have mentioned or added a proper upset recovery procedure :)

I am shocked. I think pilot training is completely wrong. I think we're going to see a lot more plane crashes until something changes. I guess the basic role of the person who sits at the controls of the plane and calls himself a pilot is to maintain the aircraft within safe flight parameters. During flight 100% of the time the pilot needs to keep an eye on the artificial horizon and speed, everything else he needs to do is a secondary task.

Yes, indeed.

Same. Before, I strongly felt that it's "pilot error", and couldn't undertand at all why the pilot failed to see the very impirtant things like the attitude indicator or thrust levers or this or that (I watched other channel about this particular accident). Watching that scene in this video, I'm become a bit more "aaah I see...".

@@CaraVerde Indeed.

@@CaraVerde and to think it was only in a matter of about 30 seconds…

Yeah the cpt was already complacent and lost his situational awareness. If he had taken 2 seconds to scan his instruments (since they were IFR at the time), he would have noticed the discrepancy between the altitude indicator and the yoke.

Maybe it should just disable the control panel for those 5 seconds and flash a big sign saying, "read the dials, dummy" 🤣😉

There's a saying in aviation that in case of an emergency, the first thing you should do is wind your watch. Basically it means to calm down, take in the situation and only then react.

There's a similar saying in medicine - "the first thing you do in a code is take your own pulse"

Retired Navy nuke Engineer here. I was taught the same thing in my operational training. When a casualty occurs, the first Immediate action is to sit on your hands and analyze the situation.

@@marsjan Pilot: _SHIT I'M WEARING MY CASIO AAAARGGH_

As gear car

Neutral plus and minus.

Speed equal neutral high low equal must folow

Look for friction 10/10 these .

Down mid up left right considerable.

Love his accent

I will let Dom know, he and the rest of the team are working wonders!

Thanks Matthew!! We aim to please and inform.

I agree. Especially appreciated the music background this time... particularly that it is never loud enough to compete with Petter, and suits the mood very aptly...

Thanks Petter, Dom, and team! You guys are legends. Absolutely love the hard work and detail you put into every episode.

@@subramaniamtg1108 thanks friend! We all love what we do!

Comment of the year!

Getting an airliner pilot license is not a piece of cake like automotive license 😂😂 They are pretty much trained for all of this!

@@knightking69 O.K., but why did all those "complacency" accidents happen, if they were trained so well? Maybe some extra awareness of all that could go wrong won't do any harm? There may be some little detail that sticks in the mind and makes a big difference when an unexpected situation arises.

@@knightking69 training to drive a car teaches you different things than watching a crap ton of car accidents. They're different lessons entirely.

@@tshaika9165 sometimes accident do happen... It's inevitable..

Great point. Just wondering how the Captain would have reacted with a non-moving joystick.

@@user-yg6vs8tz5c Also many of these disasters seem to be partially caused by pilots not paying attention to the artificial horizon and engine thrust indicators. I wonder why HUDs that clearly show the attitude of the plane and other vital information are not more common.

As a contrarian - the HUD on the A350 may have led to the pilots of that JAL flight not seeing the Coast Guard plane on the runway. But I'm not a pilot, just humble SLF.@@ladoga

@@raehandurlabhji2776it’s very likely that even without the HUD he missed the other plane. The positiv side of HUD is much greater than without. Check out the other video here on this channel about the crash in LAX Runway collision - a lot of parallels I would say.

Hi, does 787 use i386dx? And which servers used in boeing windows, linux, or ibm?

@@vipvip-tf9rw Yes. Some of the hardware uses it in embedded system hardware.

My favorite aspect of your work is your overall calmness. You have a cool demeanor and this strikes me as an absolutely necessary trait for a pilot. How much of that is "in your genes" and how much of it is learned behavior? I note you also have a beautiful dog. My dogs are very useful in sensing when I need to chill, and in helping me to take things down a notch. Do you find that dog contact helps you in this way? Bring on the beta-endorphins! THANKS, PETTER!!

Yes it’s definitely a case of less is more in this case...

That's an interesting story and I definitely read your entire comment. Say, shut up for a minute and buy NordVPN's proxy services, ok? Buy it now. It's not a scam. Seriously, shut your mouth and buy it now. I'll wait...

That is a very excellent question to ask. 'what is really going on'? for any situation. Breaks the spell actually it aligns you with God, Angels who are trying to help you. And it connects you brain to you heart...so you can hear the Angels.

@@Blue-hf7xt Indeed.

@@Blue-hf7xt ey, a fellow fiction stories lover

@@lastyhopper2792 Ask out loud, are Angels real or fiction...see what answer you get?

Thank you for your kind words! That’s exactly what we are aiming for 💕

@@MentourPilot When you get a moment, take a look at my reply above and tell me what you think. Thanks, Wills.

@@MentourPilot yeah, this example is a highlight of how reflexively taking action.... may or may not be a good idea. The pilot acted on reflex... when he needed more info.

The Air Morocco delayed take off springs to mind.

“Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward-reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them. In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.” - Michael Crichton (1942-2008)

We refused to fly any Airlines except SQ in Asia

The bank angle callout probably wouldn't help, sadly. The reason is that we lose audio perception first in a high stress situation. A thrust asymmetry alert would be a great idea though.

I don't understand why this dive wasn't recoverable?

​@@ChristopherBurtrawWhat are you talking about? It wasn't high stress prior to the bank angle warning. You're saying you'd hear "bank angle..." then are so unprofessional that you'd tune out the last half of the callout (ie. Roll left/right!)?

@@fredspofford Petter explains it in the video. Watch it again.

Sterile cockpit helps.😮

That’s what I’m hoping. Glad to hear it’s working.

@@MentourPilot It is working! Strangely as it may sound, next week I will do training for our sales and cs reps based on aviation processes I have learned about from you! CRM and PIOSEE as main communication and problem solving approach 🙂I’m completely amazed by aviation world. Thank you for your videos, Petter

Just a terrestrial here but I love to fly (commercially) and really enjoy Mentour’s channel. Unfortunately for my partner I now say things like, “situational awareness”, “bias” and talk about the concept of the power gradient amongst crew, in our everyday conversation …. Lol

@@ycoyle2803 , I also find myself thinking in terms of situation awareness. I don't drive a car, but have had a few narrow squeaks because of careless or dangerous drivers - very narrow squeaks when I was off in my own world instead of paying attention to my surroundings. Turns out that listening to music while walking down the road is way too distracting.

@@MentourPilot Its definitely working, I’ve taken similar lessons from your videos myself. There are some curious similarities between our jobs in terms of importance of following safety SOPs even if it’s a little little slower or annoying than cutting those tiny corners. No doubt you’ll understand why when I tell you I’m an ACS agent cross trained in most of the ramp duties. (I’m not entirely compatible with spending time doing nothing waiting for another aircraft to clean and provide bowser service so I voluntarily undertook most of the ramp training so I can go out and assist them. If I’m working the shift passes faster.) Similarly the lessons in situational awareness transfer into my job and supplement the training already provided by my employer. You might be pleased to know that teaching me about how the mind works when startled and surprised have actually had practical applications during the nine months or so that I’ve worked on the apron, particularly right after a very near miss when the driver of our van somehow missed the incoming Ryanair 737 following the yellow line to taxi to the assigned aircraft stand. It was already beginning to turn to cross our path when we approached. I was seated behind the driver and we skimmed by so close that I could have reached out the window and patted the 737 on the nose. Once past the 737 I had to be firm in insisting the driver pull over at the nearest safe spot because the startle and surprise would make him far more likely to actually cause an accident if he continued to drive back to base. Besides it was inevitable that Airside Ops would come for him quickly so there really wasn’t any point to carry on driving and the easiest thing to do was just wait for them to arrive. Admittedly I’ve always wondered what went through the pilots minds during this incident. From my rudimentary understanding I doubt that there was anything they could do to stop quick enough. They were taxiing and apparently it can take a few seconds for the engines to spool down if they killed the engines or put them into idle and I have no idea if the parking brake is capable of stopping the aircraft while it’s taxiing. I still don’t know how he missed it, planes like that are not subtle. Similarly it’s helpful to simply be aware that prolonged stress and fatigue can affect the mind while I’m under those conditions out there. Having learned about CRM was the other main takeaway and sometimes I think it might be worth learning more specifics would be useful when our supervisor expects us to do something dumb like attempt to clean a 737 without a GPU yet available in the middle of a night shift. Fortunately that doesn’t happen often and most of the time I enjoy the job despite some of the downsides. Oh and if you ever fly into BRS and I’m around I’ll say hi.

I can imagine that.

@@NicolaW72 It's hard to swallow to be honest. Not only because accident happened in the first place obviously, it's also because that this accident kind of verified the fact that we had a "not quite good" safety records for years.

Indonesians love cheap and simple more than they love safe and quality, the aviation industry of the country reflects well on this (sad) mentality. This and corruption is what always hinders Indonesia's progress to develop, and it's not helping the youths of Indonesia are still keeping this very outdated mentality alive

@@NicolaW72 I, too.

@@sofyanaldian5233 Yes, indeed. The system failed here on all lines - and for years. If only one line would have holded, all 62 people would be still alive.

100% totally pathetic crew.

99,99% of the time, bank angle is given by the yoke position and is backed up by PFD data. We are looking at this having information those pilots didn't have (unlike them, we do know this was an atypical situation caused by some faulty mechanisms) In this instance, they were doomed for not considering PFD data, but there are several cases were pilots have been doomed precisely for trusting their PFDs...

Surely any time a planes pilot hears bank warni g can thry mot feel plane banking and trigger warning passengers panicing if they used senses more maybe things would be better anotherwords couldnt mindfullness be part of the training that self hrlp encoursges you to use sense of sight hearing feel which could help ​@andreea007

r u a pilot?

Easy to talk when you're comfortably watching this in the comforts of your home without any demands set upon you.

👍

Good point, we’ll made!

I dont know about that....

There are a couple more equally good channels on KZfaq

You hacked KZfaq this video was 1 hour ago and you replied 7 hours ago HOW?!?!?!

@@devkell9960 I think Patreon members get early access to the videos with a link to the 'Unlisted' video

i've always wondered why that is called deadheading.

@@mrxmry3264 if you aren't flying the plane or taking care of the passengers, you are just a body in a seat who doesn't have to think (use your head) & you aren't paying so the airline can't sell the seat to someone else so the seat is "dead". I believe it's like an old theater term for someone who didn't pay for the seats they were given, if I'm remembering right.

@@tazhienunurbusinezz1703 Thahnk you, I’ve wondered about that myself.

It isn't free, it pays itself with advertisement.

Great analysis. ..

@@ClearedAsFiled Indeed.

👍

Question regarding this - wouldn't the asymmetric thrust be detected by ear? I mean one was stuck at 91% and the other one was gradually decreasing. I might sound like an arm chair critic and I apologise for that, but would love to hear your insight on this.

This is an example of modern Instrument Flying. Wasn't there a system to monitor the throttles? Yes, its called the "pilot flying"!

Good idea! It should even be possible that the autopilot checks different possible reasons causing it making it harder than normal to fly the way he should and it this case also give a "Check for asymetric trust " warning as this is one of the possible reasons and could be detected by comparing the thrust of both engines. Also the "bank angle" warning does not tell on which side the problem was detected which could be added Or in general: In my opinion it it not enough if the computer gives warnings and errors - it should also try to find the reason for that warnings and errors by using data from all of it sensors and determining the most propable reasons and give hints to check and recover. But the biggest mistake in my opinion was that the ground service did not react on the repeating problem with the trust levels. It might be okay to clean the connectors if that fix the problem - but as it is not normal that these connectors have to be cleaned so often it should be clear that the real problem must be somethere else and had to be identified and repaired. It is like if I get a low oil warning in my car. I can try to fix that by refilling some oil and if that solves the problem is is fine - but if I get another low oil warning a couple of weeks later it is not a good idea to just refill some oil again and I also have to find out the reason for this repeating problem....

As the Boing stat to implement things as like MCAS to antique plane first flight was 1967, almost 56 years ago, nothing can go wrong. First thing that make the things harder is control wheel to follow the autopilot as it is obviously clue what it wants to do, but also same time it is not show how things are going relative to horizon other than in the instruments that are behind the control wheel.

@@elkeospert9188 I am not sure if a computer should give hits on what may be wrong, because if it is mistaken, it may direct pilots to a wrong mindset. It's much harder to recognize a B problem when you assume it is A problem.

@@LiliumAtratum But a computer can analyze a lot of data in very short time and is not impacted by stress and in situations where pilots not have time to work through checklists I think given the pilots hints that (most probably) causes the problems and should be checked first would be helpful. And I assume that using all available data a software could determine the correct problem in more cases than pilots (which anyway also have to rely on the data presentend to them) In this case the asymetric trust was "known" by the computer and if could be calculated how much impact it has. If that explains the problems the auto pilot has to keep direction it is very probably also the reason for that problem. Another example for that I mean. If the altimeter of the pilot and the one of the copilot are delivering different values it is difficult for pilots to find out which one they should trust. GPS is not very accurate in the measurement of height - but if GPS says that you are on 11500 feet and the alitmeter of the copilot shows 12000 feet while the altimeter of the captain shows 6000 feet it is a very good reason to indicate that the captains altimeter is most possible wrong. You can have test pilots and engineurs working on such "decision helper" using all data from all sensors on ground without any stress and hurry and then code this into a software which could apply all that "knowledge" in a fraction of a second when it occurs in the air.

There already was (although it is not implemented in the autopilot which is probably appropriate in this case), and it is explained at 19:47 (Split thrust monitoring system). Unfortunately this system was not functioning correctly either. This is a big pointer to the significance of organisational safety culture as one of the root causes of the incident.

My thought exactly. It should become second nature to scan, scan, and rescan every 10 - 20 seconds of the most important instruments and indicators. And for extra bonus points, do a complete scan of all instruments (or as many as you can see) every 1-2 minutes.

This. The "BANK ANGLE" warning would have been a cue for them to look at the EADI, not at their control wheel. If they did, the accident could have been avoided.

There is a not so secret thing here, about pilot quality. I have several friends who are airline pilots, and a few of them by the time of their initial training were sent for few months to fly in Indonesia. They were appalled at the very poor quality of many airline pilots there.

@@Stoney3K Lmao thank you! You have no idea how useful your comment is for me. So I’m not a pilot yet during the part where he put us into the position of the captain and he asked us what our response would be to the bank angle warning and we looked down, I got confused when he told me that the natural response was to turn left. Why? Because I was thinking that I would look at the relevant instrument panels to try to ascertain what was going wrong. Huh, I guess I’ve learned more than I thought. I never expected that.

@@tinchote "Hey, lets look at the clouds outside instead of our instruments, we can trust our inner ear anyways" But I'm just joking, now they recruit those pilots for Ryanair and Spirit Airlines

Yeah.. it was quite painful to research and script this one.

@@MentourPilot Would it be a good idea if you could include a brief discussion on the correct series of steps the pilots could have taken to get out of the critical situation they found themselves in after the bank angle warning?

@@globalvoice... They only needed to do one thing. Scan their instrument before taking any actions. That would have shown the thrust asymmetry instantly.

They only had to look at the instruments. Argh

@@celderian Yep. It just sucks if you get into that mindset box and stop seeing the obvious. It was as well unfortunate that the async thrust alert did not go off as you would expect it... I don't know... the whole situation was a mess and it seems like a tragedy was unavoidable since there were so many problems all over the place for years being overlooked.

Ehh ada kak gery

Sorry to hear that but thank you for your feedback. Fly safe!

Keep the blue side up? That sounds like something 74gear would say.

@@mikoto7693 Yes.

“Don’t feel like digging any deeper”. Not really the best attitude to have if you’re an aircraft mechanic

@@tomstravels520 Change hats and think like maintenance. The plane is scheduled to lift of in 2 hours - otherwise rescheduling of the flight guest. You need to do handle some more service items on that plane also take time, but you have other planes that you need to handle - otherwise even more rescheduling. Then you look at the trouble shoot and maintenance guides: Some are painfully detailed and specific and need to be done. Others are simply non existent (or you don't have them at hand, because the error described/reported does not lead to that guide). Note that when you test and disassemble systems you have no direct procedure for, you need to be extra careful. Even flipping a switch the pilots are supposed to check every time can cause an accident. Incorrect reassembly will make the problem much worse instead of helping. So... when moving something is risky, dissembling is risky, testing is risky, ... isn't less risk just to leave it be...? Off course, a mechanic can escalate: When would you label a system inoperative? When would you ground a plane?

@@tomstravels520 people are humans.

@@sarowie that depends how important the system is and how much redundancy is available as backup if it fails again. Exactly what the MEL is for. But if autothrottle keeps failing repeatedly then either disable the autothrottle (doubt anyone wants to fly like that), dedicate a team to concentrate solely on that aircraft or if you’re really unsure then get the people who made it in and have them look at it. We have had aircraft problems before that we couldn’t fully diagnose and had to call the manufacturer to look at it (eventually found the cause and procedure added to manuals). The same goes for TK1951 that kept having faulty RA. Although in that instance the design of the 737 didn’t help and it wasn’t clearly communicated not to use autoland

@@tomstravels520 With this amount of repeat/recurs we would have dig deeper into this. But you have to remember this is a third world airline with substandard practices and that plays a role.

It seems to me if two pilots wrote the the "RH thrust lever was useless" and they ignored it, then something is wrong in the maintenance department.

@@andyharpist2938 Indeed.

A question, how much are the pilots trained to hand fly before they are regular with commercial flights?

@@Dheeraj71192 depends on where they are coming from, US trained pilots do a fair bit of hand flying as they go all the way up through CFI. From there it will transition to more time in simulators with more automation. Most of time after that point will be learning how to deal with automation failures and recovering from them so you will be learning how to manually take over from automation but your training is heavily tilted towards working with automation then not. Also depending on your flight school as you gain certifications, if the school has more advanced technology in the planes you are encouraged to use it. Even when flying regularly pilots often hand fly take off and landings to keep stick and rudder skills up. Generally speaking as a pilot you learn to use automation as a tool in the cockpit but are familiar with how it can fail and how you are to take over. That being said many foreign training programs are very heavily tilted towards automation. Also many of these Asian and other foreign airlines require pilots to use auto land and turn over most of the thinking to automation. While everyone who flies has a level to professionalism to them, I would much rather a US or a European trained airline crew over an Asian crew simply because those crews are much more likely to have a smaller startle effect and can hand fly the planes well. But that's my two bits.

Best of luck!!

Yeah it's something that seems to be common factor that some of the messages that the aircraft is providing maybe could be more clear instead of general X issue. It's not like they can't afford more detailed messages that'd still be concise

It's often said that we fear what we don't understand. The greater your understanding of how aviation works and the chain of unlikely events that cause accidents the less you fear. :)

That's really remarkable. I'm so happy for you! I understand the crippling fear of flying.

Hurray! Now you can enjoy flying and travel!

@@mbvoelker8448 Lol! My sister is afraid to fly and I'm afraid of spiders. One day we were traveling down the road when I saw a spider on my window and freaked out so my dad pulled over and told my sister to get it. She said to my dad "Oh brother, it's just a little thing"! I said "Well, planes can be too, but you wouldn't board a little one, either"!😉

That is really sad to sit there for hours in fear. It would have probably helped to have a little therapy dog, sitting w/you throughout the flight. I'm glad you no longer fear flying. Mentour Pilot is very generous in sharing his expertise.✈

Indeed. I would also add Air Asia Indonesia Flight 8501 were nearly the same negligence of the Maintenance happened as in this case.

Glad you enjoy it!

Welcome to the club. I find myself neglecting or postponing other priorities to binge addict watch these videos. I was a plane mechanic up until 1985 but still never forgot my love of aviation. Thus these rekindled the spark.

Also not picked up is the controls binding. A long running problem on this plane with all attempts at fixing appearing to be blamed on the electronics. Surely the logs should be audited by maintenance and the real fault found and fixed.

did previous crews never notice it ... or just not report it ? AFTER the United Express aircraft went off the runway at Presque Isle Northern Maine Airport ... then PREVIOUS flights started reporting the ILS problem !

Couldn't Boeing just add some sort of warning lights etc ... seems insane

Here I quote from the report: "... .The differences in engine parameters during aircraft descent and the right thrust lever late on the take-off roll while the A/T engaged, most likely might have resulted in the thrust levers split. The Quick Access Recorder (QAR) data recorded 7 thrust levers split occurrences between 2020 and 2021. No pilot reported on these occurrences in the AML. Most of the pilots stated that they did not recall the occurrences." "If the FMC CDU INTERACTIVE TEST was performed for thrust lever movement problem during the A/T system engagement will result to FWD LOOP or THROT SPLIT fault messages. The subsequent trouble shooting steps would use procedure contained in the AMM chapter 71-00-49 (Power Plant-- Trouble Shooting (Engine Controls)). Similarly, for pilot report of thrust lever split event, the same troubleshooting step should also be in accordance with the procedure in AMM chapter 71-00-49, which contained maintenance steps to check the friction of the engine control cable. Therefore, the termination of the trouble shooting after the BITE test result of “no faults” and without the pilot report of thrust lever split, resulted in the engineers stopped the trouble shooting steps and not proceed to examine the engine thrust control as required in AMM chapter 71-00-49. This is likely the reason why the defect prolonged."

@@Dont_Gnaw_on_the_Kitty 65 incidents recorded by the Quick Access Recorder and 7 that year. And no one noticed anything? Except maybe the first officer who was alongside the captain the year previous as described by Petter in the "serious incident ". What, did he wait for the plane to crash a year later and then decide to spill his guts on the previous incident then? Multiples of systemic and organisational failures here. Pilots and this accident are just the conduit through which these failures have come to light. Have the 130 other first officers and captains been hauled over the coals regarding failures to report, or did they see nothing too? They are all just lucky it didn't go so wrong on their watch! Its not judgement that spared all the rest, its luck! Imho. RIP to all those who died.

Uh, please don't ignore the Check Engine warning in your car either! Part of why traveling by car is so unsafe is because people don't have awareness for the force they are commanding. Some of the causes that trigger the warning are pretty severe failures that could result in a fire, for example.

Oh for Gods sake. Tell me about all the times there's been a major car accident because someone didn't immediately address a check engine light. You're not at 30,000ft in a car. It's okay if the car doesn't end up at the shop right away. I'd like to see the reaction of a tow truck driver if the only reason you called them was that your check engine light was on. They'd look at you like you're a damn fool. Oil light on, yes pull over because you can ruin your engine. Check engine light does not mean your car is about to explode. @@sleepysera

@@sleepysera Check Engine lights have little to no critical function. Name me one NTSB report a fire occurred from a Check Engine light...

Hah, that’s similar to my experience with the introductory training to working safely on the apron and aircraft stands. When the training video featured past incidents to teach us not to do the same or similar things I felt a sinking feeling when I realised I’d already learned it from this channel and knew what was about to happen, particularly during my ramp training about the importance of loading and labelling cargo properly and what things are hazardous such as lithium batteries. I recognised UPS flight 6 immediately and I still feel sympathy for that poor first officer and what he endured alone for the final minutes of his life. But yeah much of the things I’ve learnt from this channel built the foundation of my understanding of aircraft which I’ve since built on. 😆 You know that the lessons have truly sunk in when he apologised for being technical at the start of this video and the responding thought was “this is technical?” Before the thought scatters while following the narrative.

Awww 💕💕

and there where multiple system in place to prevent that incident.

Yes.

👍

Tack Bengt! Det var roligt att höra.. 💕

Indeed, exactly.

I always say, "Uh-oh" when he says that.

👍

Indeed, exactly.

I can imagine that.

Nobody cares about your stories unless you go buy NordVPN's proxy services. That's all Mentour cares about. If you aren't buying Nord, then frankly you should stop enjoying this content.

@@User0000000000000004 He’s pumping out high quality completely free content on KZfaq. What’s wrong with him trying to monetise this at NordVPN’s expense..?

It's my pleasure! 💕