I don't believe there is a need for attacks to either side here. Dr Jamus proposes universal MW, SM Tharman and Minister Gan have sound counters as to why that may backfire, and Dr Jamus also has his arguments as to why that may not be so. We should not spectate this parliamentary debate as biased party supporters but as Singaporeans and appreciate how this constructive debate works toward a better direction for Singaporeans' standards of living. Which is exactly why we are electing more opposition MPs.

Without Jamus Lim, such matters would probably not have even been debated in parliament. This is exactly why we need more leaders like him to prevent ‘groupthink’. It takes unwavering courage to stand on the other side of the fence and be ‘grilled’ by an overwhelming majority on matters which you are strongly passionate about. You have my (and I am sure many others) utmost respect, gratitude and support. We see you and we feel you.

The fact that there is even this conversation is already a good first step.

I find Dr Jamus Lim's style of speech to be straightforward, reliable and most importantly relatable. No need flowery terms or emotional-driven sentiments. Speak the hearts of the people, not the hearts of the bosses who determine your stay. Proud of Dr Lim🤘🏻

Feels like we are watching 5 or 6 defenders tackling Messi, then the ref came along at the end to blow for foul.

I particularly like how respectful some of the PAP members are, shows that they know Dr Lim is worth his salt. I like the tone Mr Nair had in particular, looks like he is learning and really interested. Unfortunately Ms Tin showed her lack of depth as usual in deeper issues in parliament again. Very shallow questions and a waste of time.

I don't think Dr Jamus proposed any new ideas into the table. Minimum wage is such an common policies that many countries use including both western and easten counties. There must be social study data's available. So Dr Jamus, pls get some data before coming to the dabate instead of just throwing ideas...I can also through ideas like basic income even without job which is tried out in some EU counties. MP is not just throwing ideas and expect government to study this or that. You need to do the study and provide feasible proposals .

Zaqy asking where that money comes from, but never stop to wonder where his salary comes from

83 vs 10 translate to 7 vs 1? Let’s focus on the issue and not on the party or the person. Healthy debate like this is good for Singapore society. Don’t need to get defensive. Put it on the table and address it. Don’t shy away from debating. Let’s trash it out rather than sweep it under the carpet. Don’t need to get personal. Be objective, then we will have good policy for Singapore and Singaporean.

Felt that Tin Pei Ling was not listening to what DR Jamus Lim stated. He did state that implementing minimum wage now is not practical due to economic down turn.

In principle, minimum wage policy is timely. The question is " how much " . That needs input from all Singaporeans. To brush aside " minimum wage " as rubbish is arrogance plus elitism

this debate was fascinating to watch. our political scene is finally maturing!

Tharman is the only one really thinking about the issue brought up and trying to have a proper debate. The rest of the PAP members needs to stop being so defensive and take everything as an attack from the oppositions.

JL was merely trying to moot this idea of having a minimum wage structure and when policy is to be made, more equity than efficiency should be leveraged. This is typical PAP for not considering this motion. Look at LW, he was rather quiet and probably mulling over this topic.

Zaqy how about u lose ur salary as a minister and survive on the Govt cash rebates, that would be a sufficient form of support for u too right?

to people out there saying we need minimum wage, do consider the fact that prices of your daily needs such as water and electricity will rise. If you feel living in SG is too expensive, don't bother asking for a min wage cause That Money Has To Come From Somewhere

It’s a good step towards communication. But if this is to be implemented, it’s always how to achieve balance to ensure Singapore’s attractiveness as a business hub while maintaining the livelihood of our workforce.

I worry that the ministers are just trying to win the debate against the opposition for the sake of winning, not trying to improve the lives of low-income individuals. After the last minister spoke so diplomatically, the opposition party should also take care not to make the PAP members sound like they have less compassion for the people whether it's true or not.

Amateurs think in absolutes. Professionals think in probabilities. Amateurs don’t have any idea what improves the odds of achieving good outcomes. Professionals do. Amateurs focus on the short term. Professionals focus on the long term. Amateurs focus on first-level thinking. Professionals focus on second-order thinking.

WP always say costs of living has risen beyond Singaporeans and then suddenly saviour Dr Jamus Lim claims Singaporeans willing to pay more for essential services?

It proves that Mr Jamus Lim is a star in the parliment. Sengkang is right to vote him in!!! 1 Jamus can outfight many other MPs.

One Jamus Lim stand against six or seven PAP MP.

Jamus lim 👍👍👍

Like many people here have suggested, I fully agree that we should be having a conversation on minimum wage and the progressive wage model. No government policy is perfect; every country should strive to improve its policies so that the needs of as many people as possible can be met. That being said, it is also improper to deride a government policy without understanding the rationale or specifics of it. This is where we, as Singaporeans come in. We should play our part in trying to understand the government policies that affect us, be it through research or discussion. We should also take part in collective efforts to push for change. We can give our opinions through REACH, the Emerging Stronger Conversations or start and participate in petitions. Most importantly, we need to set aside our differences and consider proposals from different entities. It is not constructive for us to put down a party's proposal because it is deemed as being too foreign or not in line with our views. Only by doing these things can we actually benefit as a country.

Dr Jamus Lim is serving

Tbh if the minimum wage is introduced and it’s too Low, I can easily pay my staff the minimum wage and never increase it. If it is too high, then I’ll have to let most of them go, let the free market decide it’s the proven strategy for wage increase.

A responsible MP should do sufficient research and investigation before making a proposal. He is a joke when proposing a minimum wage policy but had no idea at what amount (even without proposing a range or a methodology to make clear the range) and when the policy should be implemented. It's likely he did zero economic analysis about his proposal.

JL is absolutely right! its not fairly distributed

it is good that someone comes out to challenge to keep our ministers and mps on their toes and make them rethink current policies. if nobody says anything that every parliament session would just be a silent session or a one-way speech. whether the policy actually comes to pass is not the point

Sir Tharman just take over already.

Support! Both for Dr jamus and all MPs participating - active, and especially constructive debate is key in improving our standard of parliament. As for the wage model itself - I believe in a stricter form of the PWM - it takes too much to maintain it effectively at the moment, limited to very few industries, and open to employer abuse. Dr lim universal model unfortunately has the flaw of being universal - not a flaw in itself but how society has constructed unequal jobs in the first place that a wage at the same rate simply can't handle itself effectively, even if the point is to raise the floor so to speak - to ensure everyone has a better SOL Debate more though, maybe an answer will be found! #boundlessoptimism

As an admirer of Jamus Lim, this is my first disagreement with his proposal. Singapore is situated in a low labour cost region in the world, there is no guarantee that a flat min wage allows the economy to be as effective. I agree with Tharman's view that there should be customisations and the overall position that packages should be used to subsidize low income households.

US based Roubini , the world famous economist says that people will be in dire straits easily for the next 10 years, therefore the unemployed will have to work in lower wage jobs to make ends meet, we have to be realistic, having lower wages is better than no wages at all. Many well educated refugees in Europe understands this reasoning n thus the smart ones work in jobs which r available to them without fussing around. Dear WP, pls wise up, asking for minimum wages in a time like this? Why r you guys such trouble makers?

I don't think minimum wage will help , but I think we should have stronger union.

How Much should we pay the foreign worker for minimum wage?

Zaqy talking nonsense .. not all citizens received that gov helps

Many of our blue collar jobs/skilled worker jobs’ wages are so depressed until they are not ‘do-able’ by the convenient import of foreign workers, especially the Malaysians. If we make a progressive shift in limiting these foreign workers, the economy and balance in wages will take care of itself. Pay me $1200 as an gardener I cannot raise a family in Singapore but for $2500, many will be happy to have this job for life.

i know of ppl being paid 4 dollars per hour in a local shoe store... we need minimum wage

very simple. enact the minimum wage law in sengkang. if residents are really willing to pay the increased cost, let their vote decide in the next election. also, lets see how the businesses and resulting unemployment pans out. i say that as a sengkang resident, and i vehemently oppose the minimum wage. but you reap what you sow, and the residents here voted for wp.

There are position with an hourly wage of $6, expecting to work for 6 hours without resting, no meals is allowed during the expected working hours from 9 am to 3 pm, only then you will understand JL’s rationale in this argument.

Minimum wages in Europe is the reason why firms r quick to fire n slow to fire, leading to high unemployment (7.8%) for the last 15 years. Dear WP DO YOU WANT SINGAPORE to end up like that!?

Dr Jamus Lim need to break down his economic concept and ideas into simple terms so that an ordinary singaporean like me can understand. Not from as an academist or economists but from politician point of view. And so that other members of the house will not take his words out of context and used it against him. Takes an economist to understand another economist, and his good intentions.

Jamus you nail them out. You still the best voice/speaker in Parliament they way they

Yes, come on minister pay can be lowered to support those who are paid $5.50

I guess 1 Jamus lim is worth the work of about 7 PAP MP's

Mr Tharman is a gentleman who should be the next PM. He is someone who builds bridges rather than tears the opposition down, humble and a good example for the rest who still have MUCH to learn. Also I'm glad to have someone like jamus to spur the PAP to evaluate their policies. If jamus didnt espouse the principles of compassionate policy making, we likely wouldnt have had this discussion in Parliament ending with tharman sounding out that the PAP will continue to raise wages for lowest wage workers.

Thanks Dr. J. Lim for supporting for lower wage.

Although i do not agree on setting minimum wage in general but i somehow felt it must be done. Since 2007 the property prices sky rocketed to about twice it is value for the past 16yrs but did anyone's salary shoot up this much to catch up? I do believe our country did generally well compared to many countries, example during 2007-2009 the whole world's financial industry was badly hit but somehow Singapore survived because the 2 casino's brought along much investments but at what cost? I understand that singapore is a small country and naturally land cost is the most valuable hence it will only go up especially when the population increased so much since last 16yrs. I thought we are promoting entrepreneurship in Singapore but how does high land cost help that? I also remember in year 2003 i remember vividly a report on the newspaper stating HP CEO wanted to move HP from Singapore to China because the cost is getting too high here and also raw materials are cheaper in China. After that gradually till now I notice many manufacturing companies started moving away. Like in orchard area shop space there could jolly well cost 20k to 40k per month for a 2000-3000 sqft area, now during times like these how are the retailers and restaurant going to survive? I believe we should find solutions to reduce cost but due to high living cost repercussion is that employers will find a way to hire more FTs or try to pay lower salaries to ppl in Singapore. If government can find more adequate solution to reduce cost to make investments viable i think we do not need to worry so much about setting minumum wage or companies will feel the sting and they might as well close their company or move out. Due to this each time Singapore has to promote and embarks on new business attractions like manufacturing to IT, chemicals and pharmacy to now AI network security etc, high costs are counter productive and these will eventually move out. What happens to Singaporeans we have to start learning new skills to join new industry but are we going to get as highly paid when you do not have experience in that new industry? Economically it seems like a country is doing well when property prices are expensive but take a good look at hong kong and Japan are we trying to be like them? Making shoe box size flats and negative interest like japan or maybe making it such that it requires 2 generations to pay off a flat. I think we must seriously sit down and form a moral and healthy economy than to chase economy and make it go like a roller coaster. Because of high land cost and due to the pandemic government has to pay through the nose to help companies and employees, i mean come on why dig a hole for your future man. In the end who is going to benefit from the property boom, yeah foreign investors coming in to pay us Singaporean for our property, yes for now. 20 or 50 yrs down the line i think private properties will mostly be owned by foreigners. Why's that, mainly due to high living cost and employers finding ways and means to reduce overhead and definitely salary is one of their main concern. So employees do not get wealthier property owners make the money for this generation and our children will pay the cost eventually. So question is who are we building Singapore for, for the foreign investors or for Singaporeans please find a moral balance?

It is good now to see the opposition raised up the questions that question what the ruling party propose or just touch and go. Many of the issues in the past is stale and ruling party still think this is right. There are many suffering out there. From this we can see the opposition is on the ground., understanding what is need to be change. Keep it up Dr Jamus.

Raise the Singaporean pay ! If you can raise the foreigner pay why not Singaporeans pay .. Singaporean local are citizen .. We need company to put minimum wage which suits the cost of living.. You rise the everything gst and taxes and food price so govt must also Rise the salary of Singaporean workers to match the needs and cost of living ..

Pap members 👎

Thank you for voicing out on minium wage dr lim

Good job...W.P... 💪

Minimum wage will slow down our economy. It will also increase inflation as well as increase unemployment(especially the low skilled workers). It is definitely not an appropriate policy for now.

Jamus, if you don’t know, stop asking too much bullshit. Make sure you have propose ideas & stop criticizing

minimum wages is one of the complexities of Europe's policies, which has cause employers to think twice about hiring.

If there is a minimum wage formula for ministers, I am curious why we cannot have a similar one for the lower paid workers who do not have a voice in the parliament. In a free market, less popular jobs will drive wages and efficiency, but this is thawrted by convenient foreign labour. The lower paid wages for Singaporean is basically pegged to the minimum foreign labour wage plus levy.

Scandinavian counties are limited when it comes to hiring unskilled foreign workers because they still need to pay minimum wages which is approximately 1500 euros. There are scandnavians who are willing to work in those positions, therefore unskileld and illegal workers are usually foiund in Eastern Europe or Spain, where the minimum wage schemes have driven employers to hire underground. That's why so many scandnavians go there to retire, the cost of living is far cheaper. The WP has to think hollistically if that's a good idea because countries like Germany managed to reduce their unemployment drastically in 2018 when they reduced minimum wages, but at the same time, also drove poverty rates up. Whatever policies the opposition proposes the pros and cons has to be honestly announced to the public.

When someone from oppo makes a suggestion, it backfires. When someone from the party makes suggestions, most if not all will agree. Who dares to challenge own boss?

Current wage policy does not take into account the purchasing power of the dollar over time. For example, three years ago the cost of a meal cost $2.00 and now the same meal at the hawker center will cost $3.00. The salary at the beginning of the point is valid for the beginning period but over time it stayed as a digital value, It means that the same dollar does not have the purchasing power over time. So paying the same salary without any adjustment over time would meant that the worker is getting a digital valued salary and not the salary in terms of the same purchasing power of the same dollar. Are we talking of the same dollar over time?

Jamus Lim’s unconvincing arguments are crude, appealing to emotion and abstract notions of compassion that are ill-defined. He thinks it’s not a good time to implement min wage and yet he pushes for it. No specifics on how much it should be and not even any proposed criteria? He says it would not imply adverse consequences..is that a gut feeling? I think the PAP responses at least in this video have a more holistic definition of the problems at hand that are not necessarily solved by minimum wage. Suggesting that it should be applied uniformly across all sectors esp without clear arguments is an over simplification. (and I thought the PAP was heavy handed)

What a debate! 😱

Haha parliament getting more interesting as WP getting more aggressive in questioning ministers. Jamus, you have done well to pave the way for more Opposition. Hopefully the next GE pap will not get a strong madate. Make pap ministers work for their pay as they are already getting top heavy and sitting fat on their salaries!!!!

What happen to the minister pay cut still ongoing or for show? Obviously WP boss willingly take paycut and donate what abt the rest of the minister gonna do?

Something is wrong with both sides PAP WP. WE NEED A MORE RELIABLE GOVT AND STRONGER OPPOSITION.

Dr Jamus Lim is the best.

jamus lim''s proposals are behaviour is laughable. It's malicious and not constructive for our country in a time like this.

All else aside, my only takeaway from this segment is that the PAP sounded overly defensive. This feels kinda uncomfortable

Tan pei lin!! He is Dr Lim. Not Mr Lim.

To quote, Jamus wanted to make it "Universal" hence I want to say a few issues which needs to be solved before he should propose this again. Issue: Should we dictate that a simple daily tree observer should be paid more than 500 dollars a month? Or whether a house wife being a full time TV responder deserves more than 700? Or a housewife doing cleaning for neighbors? With minimum wage, problems are: 1) People have lose the right to decide what is the right wage. For example, if a people decides that the job offers a fair wage, he will sign up the job. You saying that you will lose this fundamental right to make this personal choice. 2) Job will be displaced and people will fight to keep their jobs which will lead to people going underground. Meaning under table hiring like you see in Dubai, UK, USA where people are paid cash and illegal immigrants can exist in the community. 3) People will have also under-table rebates from workers back to companies. This problem already exist in the current S-Pass scheme where we force employers to pay a minimum salary. These workers will give cash back to the companies off the record just to get hired. Kindly refer to the list of companies caught doing this from MOM website, and there are way more who aren't caught yet. 4) People who have been given the salary increase from minimum will now have to work harder to make up the value difference. Employers will force the extra workload onto workers or fire them. However, this is against the fundamental right against a person to choose a more relaxed version of job. Why must we force that everyone must work for the minimum amount of X dollars? Before we shove minimum wage down the throats of the public, please do your homework of the people whose jobs will be displaced. Stating the obvious that everyone needs money is not good enough, rather we should identify the real reasons for inequality. This has been debated before and everyone knows the pros and con, the issue is Singaporeans want an air tight policy which addresses all concerns and not bring about a new set of problems.

Don’t just keep believing in Jamus Lim lah. CNA is not even showing the full debate.

Tharman had to step in to save his MPs lol

I'm sorry but the half the people sitting in their sits (in the beginning) were either using their phones or didn't give 2 cents about what the speakers were talking about, really shows how jaded they just something I noticed.

Good wp we are ♥️♥️

Jamus .u r power.pap jiak sai.

On the other hand, minimum wage for foreign workers have gone up. What irony

Over $4 billion to be disbursed from 29 Jul under the Jobs Support Scheme

Jamus Lim... definitely minister calibre... but he has to downgrade himself to MP level by joining WP...

If you implement a minimum wage to businesses, employers will have to cut staff and only retain experienced staff, job vacancies will be less, businesses will have to raise prices, people will start complaining why the rate of inflation is rising fast, workers will say they can't afford things because of inflation, then WP will propose raising the minimum wage!

worst of all, the minister of MOM failed to recognise the insufficient of Min wages, they thought once it had bee rolled out, this min wages level is enough, yet they keep pushing the retirement age of workers and increase min sum to be kept in cpf for their retirement planning.

The government did raised the minimum wage but the problem is they let inflation goes up and up every year. How the government expect the low income people to survive? Taking two or three jobs! Who going to raise the kids at home? Low income how to afford maid! Even child care centre is so expensive.

Agreed Mr jamus Lim Why other countries in the world they can have the minimum wage

Please ask about the economy that was uplifting with the foriners workers here .When did it went up up n up .

I personally think it is really irresponsible to demand for minimum wage but have no approach or a workable and feasible plan. We are paying you to have a constructive debate at parliament. Not requesting to use resources for plans that you “don’t know”! Please address and share how you can solve the potential issues of minimum wage as well! I personally think that the government policy is better! As they are building Singapore with the principle of “Work hard to earn what you want!”. I see that they are trying to increase singaporean wages as well. Why disregard their efforts! 1) people upskill to drive for company to give higher wages 2) innovation to increase effectiveness and efficiency to drive higher wages 3) good and healthy business environment to Ensure business profits to drive higher wages These are ways to make businesses increase singaporean wages in a sustainable way. But asking for minimum wage is so unreasonable. Why will businesses want to increase your wage? negative consequences will only have the greatest impact on the poor Singaporeans in the Long run! Personally I think he lack empathy! Why didn’t he consider those who will lose their jobs due to minimum wages?? Australia and France have minimum wages, but they have 2-4 times more unemployment rate! Have empathy to these grp of people!!!! What about empathy for the sme. Will their business be sustainable? Sme is an important part of Singapore economy and it creates 65% of the work opportunities. Can they survive? Will this lead to a collapse of our economic structure? Every policy have its flaws, I really don’t think you should judge who has more empathy for the people!

Hello PAP ministers, pls. consider to start planning min. wages for our children children. Look like all the high pay PAP ministers are not even considering to start. OMG. Pls. serve the nation with a heart and not your pockets.

There is no Union for Food delivery partners right? Are riders being squeezed more and more? $72 to pay Grab for wearing their Tshirts and Delivery box? What kind of operating model is this? New food order option being rolled out by Grab : To get a taste of it, visit those food centers and wait for orders espeically lunch and dinner. Those places listed riders get $2 only more but may have upto 5 different stalls to collect from. Logistic nightmare and most will not have space to put on their bike. If food drops how? Many told me they received a app message informing about it. If riders support this or dare not say no, thats the end for this trade because there is no limit to only a certain restaurants. It could expand to most places. SG has no union for riders to protect our self interest. No min wage also. This allows businesses to use models that squeeze more and more protected by the rule of law. Here are the locations you might get "lucky" : Quote Grab page : selected merchants within the Telok Ayer, Amoy Street, The Quayside, Katong, Little India, Tanjong Pagar, Ann Siang, Killiney, Frasers Tower, China Square, and Changi Airport Terminal 3 areas. *DISCLAIMER:* GrabKitchen - Hillview and Jewel will *NOT* have an additional $2 incentive. I heard that Hougang 209 Food market also no extra paid to riders

Dr. Jamus Lim, thank you very much, and Workers Party, for pushing for a universal minimum wage law for Singapore. After all the Pro Aliens Party hot air, they cannot even name a single country where a minimum wage law has failed to serve their citizens!!! And heartfelt congratulations to you!!! Now, every single Pro Aliens Party minister and MP also want to be considered a "compassionate" person!!! You really warm the cockles of my heart, Dr. Jamus Lim!!!

Looking at the current state in USA, (which I believe does not have minimum wage), where their majority of working class citizens are living below poverty line. The question is: Would our own working class citizens in some sectors, status quo, be left behind as we progress forward?? Just a thought.

If the WP WANTS benefits and more subsidies for Singaporans, they have to also educate Singaporans that these subsidises usually comes from increased taxes and GST. IF we want minimum wages, one has to also consider the spending rate from the goverment to the citizens in other areas such as subsidised housing , schools, maintaining our HDBs, Controlling food inflations, subsidising food prices, CHARS, skills future etc. It's not just one area..... that they are poor, and we should adjust their salaries. What has the poor received so far? Why are they still poor despite of CHARS help, subsidised HDBs , free schooling, MOM's assistance, and skills future? I personally know of a family whose husband is a drug addict, no matter how much help he has received, he still goes back to square one. I know of two families who are below the poverty line but they live normally, no illegal sustance involved, studied and received help, today they are not living luxuriously but are financially sound. Therefore, Sometimes, it's not the goverment's fault. We have to be responsible for ourselves. So the WP has to first find out why and who are these people who cannot get out of the poverty trap? Is MINIMUM WAGES the answer to our problems? Then why is the European Union's natural umemployment rate at a whopping 7.8% despite of having a minimum wages?

Unemployment in eurpe is a combination of high wages, inflexible union, stagnated market and a competing China. Also a goverment who steps down every half a decade cannot be there to bring the country out of crisis . They need more time. WE are in a very unique position. Signapore has a stable goverment who does not leave whenever they get tired.

if a world in fair?? This isn't call a world.

Alot banking and insurance doing same thing leii... Why can't sg govt doing same thing

Noticed when he over articulates it became boring it's like Jack in the box, once out of the box it starts shaking all over. 😆😅🤣😂 many had started calling him Dr Jack😊

the wp lot like to "spark" many things and having other people put out the fires.

Yentao ur presentation is very impressive b more assertive voters.behind u dont get coax n swing by tharman

Good WP 👍👍👍👍❤️

Why why so many 'I do not know?

Jamus Lim's talking style irritates me no end

I think PAP political holders and MPs have to stop arguing their point on minimum wages using old tunes like 1) Where the money is coming from? 2) Would have adverse effect on economy. Please understand that MOST developed countries have minimum wages, they are there for you to see and study before you start saying this. Don't waste precious parliamentary time, you know how much it costs for all the man hours there? And the adverse effect of wasting tax payers money in not doing home work as representatives? The GOOD argument point is between our style of minimum wage as PWM is effective or not. Dr Jamus is worried about employers gaming the system, Mr Leon is worried by low wage workers have to take turn to wait for their chance when their sector is selected. Minister Tharman point is that practically when they implement the policy, a selective minimum wage is more controllable and can be monitored easily instead of an across the board minimum wages which may, also be "gamed" or exploited by workers/employers. hmm, sounds like every time getting a little more pregnant (ops, am i allowed to say that?) Good session where Dr Jamus and Mr. Leon helped to show that nobody has monopoly for intelligence and Minister Tharman show that nobody has monopoly for compassion. I gun your strength your gun my strength. Nice, we love this game.

I may not b in parliament but I can also participate as my home n country ,,, if some folks hv minds n heart I also hv heart n minds , stop telling n intimidate Singaporean indirectly that we just keep n mind our own business ,, dictatorship big fish eat small fish rule cannot b accepted tolerate again everyone contribute to nation building not just some politicians ministers , not so sure of their cutting edge in their task n role ,, no more ancient age where we keep quiet ,,,, every criticism not necessary b destructive it can b a great blessings Thank U