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Part 24: The Ford B Recon

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CusterApollo

CusterApollo

15 жыл бұрын

Part 24 of my 2010 documentary on the Battle of the Little Bighorn.

Пікірлер: 33
@country3608
@country3608 5 жыл бұрын
Love the Meadow Lark and other birds and crickets 🦗 in the background!
@tigerz68
@tigerz68 11 жыл бұрын
Bouyer argued with Custer at the Crows Nest, I feel he thought the Gen. was not getting the picture about how big this village was, the signs, especially at the Sun Dance camp showed those that could understand them, that the Lakota were strong and were ready to fight. You may be correct that Curley added these comments later in hindsite, although I feel he may not have said them as too not upset anyone. It was years before alot of the Natives felt ok to say anything about what happened.
@CusterApollo
@CusterApollo 11 жыл бұрын
At the Nest the Crows actually pleaded with Custer to attack immediately. They felt the command had been spotted. Custer did not take their advice though. It wasn't until Custer returned to Halt #2 on Davis Creek and heard about the Hard Tack Box incident that he finally was convinced the cavalry was spotted. Once that happened, Custer then ordered the advance and decided to attack immediately.
@princegoulash
@princegoulash 12 жыл бұрын
I notice that you haven't mentioned that Peter Thompson claimed to see Custer by the river - do you completely discount his testimony? By the way, thanks for this amazing series of videos. I have been fascinated by the battle for years, and this is probably the closest I will get to the battlefield. You have done a superb job in explaining everything.
@CusterApollo
@CusterApollo 11 жыл бұрын
The official rank and seniority list amongst the 13 officers in the Custer battalion are as follows. 1. Lt. Col. George Custer 2. Capt. Miles Keogh 3. Capt. George Yates 4. Capt. Thomas Custer 5. 1st Lt. William Cooke 6. 1st Lt. Algernon Smith 7. 1st Lt. James Calhoun 8. 1st Lt. James Porter 9. 1st Lt. George Lord 10. 2nd Lt. Henry Harrington 11. 2nd Lt. James Sturgis 12. 2nd Lt. John Crittenden 13. 2nd Lt. William Reily
@CusterApollo
@CusterApollo 11 жыл бұрын
I am not sure if I believe what Curly said after the fact. At the time he left the command everything was still stable. Very little firing had occurred and nobody had been killed yet. I find it hard to believe Bouyer or anyone else in the command felt the situation was as dire as Curly suggests. However, it is easy to add this information later reinforced by knowledge of the event outcome. This is what I think Curly did.
@CusterApollo
@CusterApollo 11 жыл бұрын
The distinct firing you speak of was far from distress signals. It is a tactical form of fire where every squad in line fires at once. This is far from volley fire where the men fire and reload as individuals. The distinct lines of cases found in the Medicine Tail area reveal where this stable dismounted tactical firing occurred. The position is called Luce Ridge. A second line across Nye-Cartwright Ridge revealed firing while mounted. Far from distress, they were stable by the book positions.
@tigerz68
@tigerz68 11 жыл бұрын
The volleys Herendeen heard are signals one way or another, although they are not heard by everyone on Reno hill, both Reno and Benteen testified they never heard anything...the timing of these volleys, around 4:30 pm is the start of Custer's battle, Reno is already up on the hill, Benteen is coming along, not in much of a hurry considering he has orders to hurry up, Benteen should have told Reno his orders and left Reno to bring up the packs, Reno is such a mess, Benteen stays to help him.
@CusterApollo
@CusterApollo 11 жыл бұрын
There is also testimony from Indians stating there was no ambush at all. Only 20 or so warriors were at the ford when Custer's troops were at the river. Custer could have crossed if he wished. The warriors could not have stopped him. But the warriors were not the objective. The non-combatants were. And they were gone. As for any officer being killed at the ford, there is no evidence to prove that at all. Every Custer battalion officer is accounted for and none are close to the Ford B area.
@leonardfleet50
@leonardfleet50 6 жыл бұрын
Custer saw the non-combatants in the distance across the river, he charged across (there being little resistance on the opposite bank) but he was shot through the left breast & fell from his horse midstream. The attack stopped immediately, because the troopers had to stop his body from being swept downstream in the knee-deep water. By the time they returned to the bank, the indians were upon them & the terrifying rout began.
@CusterApollo
@CusterApollo 11 жыл бұрын
If Custer was shot at the ford than the battle would have been very different. The left wing would not possiby moved about the field as it did had Custer been shot early in the battle. Also if Custer goes down early then Keogh takes command. Keogh died with his wing. Custer died with Headquarters. That and the movements of the left wing throughout the battle reveal that Custer was in command through the entire event and not taken out early.
@explosiverex5023
@explosiverex5023 6 жыл бұрын
Just say that custer was shot earlier on in the battle,do you think this might of had a different outcome on the battle,i.e if reno and benteen on hearing custer being downed might of spured them on to moving up to help the stricken soldiers and establishing a better defence to the braves?
@tigerz68
@tigerz68 11 жыл бұрын
I think I read the account in Marie Sandoz's book, and there are accounts of at least one trooper getting across. I think Lt. Godfrey stated that shod horse tracks were found all the way up to the river here, may have been that Custer sent co.E down to cross and push the non-coms further on while he pursued them on their right as they fled north, still waiting for Benteen and the packs.
@CusterApollo
@CusterApollo 11 жыл бұрын
Most warriors did not know they were fighting Custer until after the battle. Most testified that they thought Crook had returned. Crook became complacent when it came to the deployment of his army. He did retreat. However, there was no order for Crook to inform anyone of his actions. The armies were supposed to find the hostiles and engage them whenever they found them. The possibility of any army being able to coordinate with another in the badlands with no roads was considered remote at best.
@jono8884
@jono8884 6 жыл бұрын
It makes me wonder what would have happened had the entire Custer force crossed at ford B - entered the village and cut straight north to catch fleeing people. At that time, there may not have been as many warriors in the village though it would have been a very hot reception. Whether they would have lived or all died in the village is interesting speculation.
@CusterApollo
@CusterApollo 5 жыл бұрын
Good thought. What if they had crossed and moved south? That would have placed the warriors between two forces. Going north would have allowed Custer to reach the women and children faster. Also the cavalry would have been on more suitable ground in the valley.
@tigerz68
@tigerz68 11 жыл бұрын
There is testimony of a crossing at this point..and of a officer being shot..in this area, I think this is were the Cheyenne were camped..it is said they ambushed the troops as they came down close to the river...this also is were the warriors from Reno swarmed across after the troops moved on..and effectivly cut of any southern retreat..Custer at this point is still on the offensive chasing the non-coms, who are moving to the north in plain site.
@CusterApollo
@CusterApollo 12 жыл бұрын
Not really. What you see today is pretty much what it looked like in 1876. The valley has changed a little with some tree removal to open up more areas for farming. And at the Custer Battlefield, the trees on Cemetery Ridge were all planted after the battle.
@tigerz68
@tigerz68 11 жыл бұрын
There are many Natives who claim that they killed Gen. Custer, have any thoughts on that? Also, what do you think about Gen. Crook, after his Rosebud battle on June 17th, not far from were the 7th turned west over the divide, he retreated, not telling anyone, this info would have really helped, and it may have even prevented the outcome that befell the 7th that day..
@tigerz68
@tigerz68 11 жыл бұрын
At this point, the non-combatents are to his north already, he may have sent his left wing on to cut them off at the cemetary ridge area. Where does Tom Custer fall in line of command if the Gen. was wounded or killed? He is with the headquarters staff at this time, Capt. Keogh back on a ridge overlooking this area, firing at warriors who left the Reno fight and are coming in from the south and west pressing him north, wounded, he makes a stand along the ridge, he dies surrounded by his men.
@JamesEPowell
@JamesEPowell 10 жыл бұрын
Why would soldiers moving up from Ford B to Calhoun Hill dismount? Also, Custer shot at Ford B doesn't mean Custer is killed there. But it would put a little panic into the whole group.
@CusterApollo
@CusterApollo 10 жыл бұрын
Soldiers in the cavalry do fight better dismounted than on horseback. It was a common tactic and was even noted in the tactics manual of 1874. So I can find no fault with the wing dismounting and fighting on foot while they moved up Deep Coulee. Also this information comes from the warriors facing the left wing. Indians did not understand white man's tactics and they just mentioned what they saw. I doubt the warriors would make up something like this so I have to believe this happened. As for Custer being shot at the ford, I find that hard to believe. He could still be alive if shot, however, everything changes if he is down, wounded or dead. I would suggest the future movements would have been much different if Custer had been hit at the ford.
@leonardfleet50
@leonardfleet50 6 жыл бұрын
Medicine Tail coulee was much different in Custer's day, today it is silted-up & much shallower than it was. In those days it was narrower, deeper, with steep sides & a slippery shale bottom, the troopers were able to ride at only two abreast. When Custer started his charge across the river, many of his men were still in the coulee; after Custer was shot through the left breast in mid stream, the attack stopped immediately because his men had to stop his body from being swept downstream in the knee-deep water. By the time they returned to the river bank, the indians were upon them, troopers in the coulee panicked, left their horses & scrambled up the sides & began their retreat at a run uphill, now as vulnerable infantrymen, being clubbed & shot as they went. There wasn't a "little panic", it was total panic, total terror, 40 troopers on foot started to shoot each other and themselves, others ran screaming down hill past the indians, either raising their arms in the air or shooting their guns in the air; they were all killed because the indians had no appreciation of what those actions indicated, they thought the troopers had gone mad, they had gone mad, mad with terror!
@CusterApollo
@CusterApollo 12 жыл бұрын
@princegoulash I don't completely discount Thompson's story. I feel he did not see Custer at the river. Thompson claims to lose contact with Custer near Medicine Tail Coulee. He saw the Company F detail moving off toward Calhoun Hill, but lost sight of the them before they got there. This movement happened early in the episode. Custer had not moved down to the river at this point. Since Thompson lost contact with Custer early in the episode I doubt he saw Custer at the river late in the episode.
@andrelebaron
@andrelebaron 12 жыл бұрын
was this land differently forested and otherwise covered back in 1876?
@brucec43
@brucec43 6 жыл бұрын
I still just do not understand the repeated dividing and sub-dividing of forces in the face of an enemy force. Nor do I understand the rush to move North, fearing Indian non-combatants would "escape". Without their massive pony herd, personal possessions, and shelters, they would have to return to the reservations anyway. And any study of moving large bodies of civilians shows that they move very slowly. With horse-holders you're talking groups of 75 or fewer men trying to carry out tactical movements better suited to the brigade and division sized units of the Civil war. Perhaps Custer still thought in those terms. But merely maintaining contact, attacking and scattering the herds, and retaining unit mass and cohesion would have led to the destruction or capture of the enemy force, as Custer could count on reinforcing units to block their escape at the very least.
@CusterApollo
@CusterApollo 5 жыл бұрын
It does seem crazy to keep dividing the forces up. But based on the testimony, archaeology, and bodies, it is clear that divisions did happen.
@cmphighpower
@cmphighpower 8 жыл бұрын
Why did they shoot their horses? When was the point at which their fate was sealed?
@CusterApollo
@CusterApollo 8 жыл бұрын
+cmphighpower They shot their horses for cover. By the time everyone was on Last Stand Hill their fate was sealed. The battalion had gone on the defensive and nothing was going to change the outcome except outside reinforcements. As we all know the reinforcements never came.
@CusterApollo
@CusterApollo 11 жыл бұрын
The Sandoz book is full of lies and fairy tales in my opinion. It has no value for any serious Little Bighorn student. As for pushing non combatants, my question would be why? Would it not make more sense to push them toward Reno and Benteen rather than further north? Also if non combatants are at Ford B I would expect Custer to cross there rather than move farther north. Especially since the bluffs to the north are not suited for cavalry at all. The valley is much more favorable ground.
@tigerz68
@tigerz68 11 жыл бұрын
I still think something dramatic happened at this crossing, if Gen.Custer was shot here this would certainly make sence of scout George Herendeens claim of hearing, he says at least 9 distinct volleys being fired early on in the battle..he was left in the valley after Reno's retreat and heard the firing from Custers direction, those volleys were signals of distress, something bad had happened and that was one way to tell the rest of the command their position
@5stars6rings
@5stars6rings 13 жыл бұрын
Sad
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