Requirements are grade 12 only, anyone can learn this stuff. The killer is the work life balance and irregular shifts and time away from home.

@@hkrause6565 well and also that even though widebody jet pilots get all the respect for skill, driving a modern intermodal hotshot at 60+ MPH average speed is something requiring nerves of steel for far longer than an airline pilot, who is really ever only put to the test a few minutes per flight. Those tests occur repeatedly over hours for train crews. And the consequences for failure can be equally dire--a high-speed train derailment can potentially kill hundreds to thousands of people if it happens in the wrong place with the wrong cargo.

i can't add an lol emoticon.

Moin! In Germany (even before the Reunification) you have also one signaling system which integrates the pre-signaling with the main-signaling. de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sv-Signalsystem And then you have the modern “Ks-system” which provides also both the pre- and main-signaling. It’s a quite cheap solution. So inspirating for other countries.

Best of luck to ya! I know how stressful those tests and the courses are.

I'm off to sunny Winnipeg next month. I have watched these videos, and, gone over the cror pdf a few times. I am still shitting myself. I hope it all becomes clearer once I am there, and, immersed in it.

Privjet. Spasibo balshoje. ;-) I have travelled from Moscow to Vladivostok three years ago. That was great. You have so beautiful country!

That's an alternate version of clear to limited

Maniac3020 That's why I prefer cab signalling.

Also Swiss signalling, Dutch signalling, and many more. North american and Australian railroad companies now need to prolong their signal masts in order to be able to affix all the plates they need over time to fix the fix. And as kids we laughed at the elderly affixing too many tourist badges to their walking sticks, but not any longer...

de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ks-Signalsystem

The UK railway signalling system doesn't communicate speed limits as Canadian signals do. Speed limits are given as wayside speed limits boards placed to the left hand side of the track similar to what they are on public roads. All engineers are trained to the route they work on the subdivisions they travel on.

*@François Parent* You're confusing two different concepts there. All trains operate at the slowest of all of the speed limits that apply to them. There can be many different types of speed limits in force at any given time. Canada, like the UK, has permanent speed limits assigned to the tracks, and those are officially marked by signs. Signals in general, and these signals, dictate _transient speed limits._ These are speed limits that change or vary by time or distance or situation. These are a second type of speed limit above and beyond the track speed limit that you're talking about. These are also a separate speed limit from the general subdivision speed limit (if one), cargo restrictions, weather restrictions, yard limits, etcetera. Each of the speed limits do not affect the others. If a signal indication imposes a 30 MPH speed limit, then only another signal indication can remove it. If a temporary speed restriction imposes a 10 MPH speed limit, then all the _Clear_ signals in the world can't remove that. Signals in the UK can impose speed limits. Approach Release signals are an example of this. It's just different from how it's done in the US and Canada.

Of course, you'd have to know its a Diverging or Limited signal.

And me!

Even the German signalling system is simpler than this. lol

The British systems are all Route Signaling systems. The Canadian system is a Speed Signaling system. There's no way that a Route signaling system conveys as much or more information than a Speed signaling system. The difference between the two is what happens when a train needs to change tracks. In the UK, multiple semaphores select from routes or a colourlight feather lights up to indicate a change of tracks, but the driver must know what speed is safe for the switch he is taking. In a Speed signaling system, every diverging movement has a safe speed prescribed by signal indication. The Canadian system also always prescribes a safe speed at the next (or second) signal. This is not something that any British system is able to do.

As much as I love US railways, I must admit the Russian/Eastern Block OSShD-based signalling systems are the best out there

daggertom1 smaller shorter trains may make a difference.

With the British system, there is a physical speed board with a diverge arrow for junctions indicating the speed limit. We change the line speed limit with a speedboard preceding the junction which will say X mph in the given direction rather than have the signal tell you your speed. TL;DR for the next bit: The driver doesn't know why he is stopping, he just knows he has to stop the train. We use a series of flashing yellows to notify the driver two to three signals prior to a diverge in some circumstances, and in other places the driver is given caution aspects which will pretty much bring the train to a stand before the last signal will clear, essentially forcing a driver down to a lower speed, known as approach release. The driver doesn't need to know _why_ something happens, all they know is they need to stop in X signals. They know the route inside out so should know how far the next signal is away. The driver will also have no reason under normal running to pass a red signal unless it has a "calling on" signal, which means "proceed with caution and prepare to stop at short notice for an obstruction", or unless specifically authorized by the signaler. TPWS has to be disabled to do this. The simplicity of the system is why it's safe. All the driver knows is the route he is taking, his speed limit and his last and next signal aspect. Speed limits are clearly signed rather than having to guess what speed is required from the combination of lights, and reductions of speed have warnings.

Are you a true foamer?

CN is hiring big time from 2015 to 2016. I just got hired on. They predict that they will be fully stocked by 2017

Southern Ontario Railfan I'll still be in school though. Is that for Ontario or nation wide?

Current outlook suggests it'll be nation wide. They will still hire a lot but not nearly as many as now. They're planning on hiring 5000 before 2017. After that, who knows

Hmm. Too bad CN doesn't have much of an operation in Windsor anymore.

Southern Ontario Railfan Hey, it's always been a dream of mine to be a conductor and I've noticed this hiring boom- though my optometrist mentioned in passing a couple years back that I have a slight red/green colour issue. I looked up the RAC Medical Rules and I was wondering if you have any p.o.v of getting past the colour tests, if you failed the standard Ishihara Test is that straight up game over or can you do this Lantern test?? I've never in my life experienced issues with green/red signals but most online ishihara tests I seem to fail.

Ya, apparently it's a bit of a mess in the US because there's no standard. There's old grandfather systems here in Canada, but we do have an agreed upon convention, the CROR.

If you're bored, you can study a bunch of different railroads' signal rules on my website: signals.jovet.net/rules/index.html There are many subtle patterns and practices that are used by different signaling systems.

@@ianjuby Great presentation, Ian! Would you recommend a formal CROR course which ends with exam and certification?

+ceMental We have a footage counter in the cab that measures the distance we've traveled, and we know the length of our train by the train journal. Mistakes happen though, and sometimes the counter is off, so we'll do little things like at a meet the other train will tell us how far in to the siding we are or they'll hit their counter right as they pass the nose of our train and we'll tell them right when the tail is clear so they know what footage it is according to their counter.

Ian Juby Thanks for the info! Great stuff!

+Ben III Nope, not a trainer for CN. Thought about it, but I really enjoy running the rails. I like to stick to that. I remember seeing some of the signals at the tunnel for the O-train, I think it was a lunar signal - but I think those signals have been there for a loooong time. So I don't know.

+David Schlotthauer A signal displaying Flashing Red over Red over Red is Union Pacific, BNSF, and CalTrain's way of giving the "Restricting" aspect. Same for 1 and 2 headed signals, a flashing red is resstricting. BNSF (maybe CalTrain too, I forget...) even has an "Approach Restricting" aspect, which is displayed as Yellow over Flashing Red. Hope I helped! :D

As Milepost 282 Productions pointed out, the signals are different for different railroads, sometimes even in the same area. The explanations of signals in this video only apply to Canada. Your TS2016 route should come with a guide showing what the signals mean. If you still need help, just ask.

As he said, just think of each of the three signal heads as indicating for specific speeds (High, Medium/Limited, and Slow/Diverging/Restricting). At the time you indicate, he starts getting into signals that indicate a speed reduction but not a stop will be required ahead. These use more than one signal head at a time _not_ being red. Yellow over Green, for example, indicates that the high-speed route would require a stop at the next signal, but that the Medium speed route is clear at that next signal. Since the signal rules are named according to the speed required at this signal and the following signal, this is called CLEAR TO MEDIUM. If the signal were Yellow over Flashing Green, then the "medium" speed gets upgraded to "limited" and the signal is called CLEAR TO LIMITED. Some signals may, instead of flashing the green, have a triangular "L" sign on them. If a signal has an L sign on it, then anytime you'd say "medium" you'd instead say "limited". Thus a Yellow over Green signal but _with an L sign_ is also CLEAR TO LIMITED. Does that help?

As far as I know, that is the case. The only thing I can think of, here in Winnipeg, there are some signals that will indicate (Y/Y) Clear to Slow, (Y/R) Clear to Stop, (R/R) Stop.

+CN Trainman Yes

mspenrice ask a Csx engineer to explain all 6 systems in their system, including the aspect system of the B&O, the Norac rules of ex-Conrail and the old Seaboard rules of the southern portion, that will get your head spinning.

Well exactly. It all smacks of uncontrolled over-refinement, of trying to splinter the possible displays into way too many potential combinations and convey too much information in a single burst or what can be readily understood instantly... when all you really need is "stop, slow, medium, fast" (and in the old days with slower trains, just "stop, slow, fast", or even "stop, go") for _immediate_ warnings or permissions on a set of changeable lights, and any _permanent_ restrictions for sharp bends, sidings, and going straight over / turning off at switches being communicated on a separate fixed sign. What are most people familiar with, at least since about the 1930s? Tri-colour traffic lights, and speed limits written on signs. The UK aspect-light system I describe essentially copies that, and is very simple and straightforward. If there's a particular speed you need to keep at or below, it'll be a number on a sign, sufficiently ahead of the actual danger and, where necessary, with an arrow pointing in the direction it applies to. The regular signal lights controlling each block give much more general and more rapidly understood instructions - proceed according to the posted limits (the same green as on a highway light), stop ahead of the lights (the same red as a highway light), and optionally one or two levels of "reduce speed now" (to certain well known maximums, or if the green light limit is already lower either slow to a fraction of said limit or at least be ready to make an immediate brake application to slow further or stop at the next signal) warnings on faster lines (the yellows, which are effectively the same "you may continue for now but there is a red coming up shortly" warning as for highway lights, just applying in terms of distance rather than time... which for a fast-moving train are much the same thing anyway). Seeing as semaphore signals already had signal lights with moving coloured glass in front of them that communicated the same two or three basic instructions (and in some rare cases four, with a purple or lunar blue glass), alongside the reflective numeric signs, which is actually where the highway standards came from (rather than the rails copying _those_ ) it kinda makes me wonder how so many different, individually as well as mutually confusing standards developed. I guess maybe there was a problem of the signs being easy to miss, or hard to see at all on foggy/smoggy nights, maybe? A problem for which our answer was essentially mounting them high enough that they could be seen using a light projected from somewhere near the cab, learning the line you're running on before being let loose on it so you had half an idea of the restrictions anyway (harder on long US/Canadian runs I suppose), and slowing down in times of poor visibility because you were as likely to end up missing regular signals anyway. Thing is, having a whole mess of coloured light signals, even ones that were carefully engineered to always be fail-safe so long as the drivers understood the decimated versions, doesn't seem any more or less reliable than just putting a footlight in front of every important speed sign as a backup for its reflectiveness, should there be low lying cloud or the locomotive's own light fail... as well as a similar backstop system as described here where switch direction is displayed on a directional-aspect semaphore or light signal, and the speed signs are all _permissive_ rather than _restrictive_ types... ie, if you haven't seen one, you assume the much lower minimum switch speed, and only go higher if there's a sign telling you that you can. (...which is again similar to at least some aspect of UK highway speed limits - if you're somewhere with street lighting, suggesting an urban area or at least somewhere that there might be significant enough numbers of pedestrians to justify permanent lights, you assume a 30mph limit unless otherwise signed). It's all doable without this kind of crazy, arbitrary, ternary-logic memory game.

...that said, I did just realise that a deliberately somewhat cryptic light-based system where you assume the worst possible case in any instance of failure is quite secure against vandalism and/or deliberate interference, which could be quite important if you're running tracks through hundreds of miles of what can be rather sparsely populated and not that regularly patrolled wilderness, and running trains with cargoes that might be quite valuable but only easily liberated outside of the intended destination should the train happen to crash... the lights themselves are fairly substantial things that are hard to remove, especially against the clock and without leaving any kind of obvious trace that they used to be there (wheras warning signs can be much more easily uprooted, cut down, or simply turned sideways/backwards), sets that are more simply knocked out by cutting the power or smashing/shooting the lamps themselves remain fairly obvious and become "proceed, but at minimum speed with maximum caution" signs (much like broken highway lights legally become yield/give-way/4-way-stop signs), and anyone setting up a fake set to encourage drivers to run too fast through a dangerous section not only has to be able to produce something that looks authentic and run a surprising amount of power to them maybe over a long distance (or at least long enough to be able to hide a portable source), but also needs to understand the codes beyond a simple "green for go, yellow for caution, red for stop" level. So it might be hard to learn, but possibly _that's the entire point._ Certainly, it would have made "the great train robbery" at least a _little_ harder to pull off, even thought that only involved stopping a train rather than derailing it.

Nope. It would be clear to medium, then the next signal would be medium to stop.

Ian Juby ok thanks

Miles per hour, because the rail operating rules were established back in the day when Canada was still using the Imperious system, so every subdivision has mile posts which are ingrained into the rules, as well as speeds like with the signals - medium speed, limited speed, slow speed, etc... were all established in MPH.

I didn't cover those - I'm assuming you mean a tall mast signal. We actually had several of those on the Sioux Lookout and Winnipeg runs. It becomes the bottom two signal heads. So red on top and green on the bottom becomes slow to clear. Yellow on the bottom is restricting

Canadian signal rules are SIMILAR to those used in US railroads east of Chicago, but names of indications are different; for example, "Clear-to-Stop" is usually called "Approach" in the US. Combinations of signals may have slightly different indications but the principles are the same in any case. Out west, UP/BNSF uses route semantics for signaling rather than speed semantics. Because they operate in rural territories with highly variable terrain conditions, there's not a good way to represent speed conditions with color signals. Instead, signals are used to make train crews aware of route changes; that is, whether or not to expect that they will take turnouts or crossovers. Multi-head signals with different colors tell the crew they are about to take a turnout. The combination tells them what to expect after the turnout--like red-over-yellow might mean "diverging approach", which means the crew should expect to stop at the next signal that allows them to get their entire train onto the other track. So the next signal might actually be yellow--"approach" or proceed expecting to stop at the next signal. Or it might be red. The crew will usually know what to expect because they are fully trained on their segment of the route. Despite being mostly focused on route signaling, some UP/BNSF indications will alter the speed. For example, a lunar aspect or a flashing bottom red aspect means "proceed at no more than restricted speed." Similar to Canadian railways, a flashing yellow or green aspect might represent an upgrade to a higher speed or only apply if it's a passenger train--in these cases the track will usually have a speed limit sign near the signal that might look something like "30, F--60, P--79" which means that if you're in a diverging condition you should normally be at 30 MPH, but if you see a flashing aspect, that indicates that it's probably a high-speed crossover AND the track condition allows for higher speeds--60 for freight and full speed (79) for passengers. If there is no speed signage on the track, then the crews are formally required to consult their timetables to determine the correct speed, but in modern practice, the mainlines are under Positive Train Control, which means the train will be electronically signaled via radio or track code to travel a current speed and that will be displayed in the cabin. PTC has additional protection in that if the crew exceeds this speed for any reason, the train will AUTOMATICALLY take whatever action is needed to reduce to that speed, first by cutting throttle, then progressive use of brakes ultimately leading to a full emergency stop.

Assuming there is a high speed head on a mast signal and is displaying a red aspect, the indication of that signal is slow to slow.

Do you mean spring switches? They're a pain to operate. We had one here at Sioux Lookout, Ontario until about a year ago when they finally ripped it out and replaced it with a power switch. I think they've been trying to get rid of them right across the country because they were so hard to operate. We didn't have any you could transit at up to 30mph that I'm aware of.

Likely a still photo of a switch with switch points while in motion.

@@-smokem: Nice try, but I don't see anybody operating the switch.

lol!

Oh wow, that really is simple. Makes the British system of green > double-yellow > yellow > red for clear > prepare for caution > caution > stop seem so complicated. Lolification.

There is no *one* British system but if there were it would be a lot more complicated than just 4 aspects. You need to include route indicators, semaphores and all of their permutations and idiosyncrasies, shunting signals (both absolute and permissive ones), and the few other odd signals that dot the countryside here and there. Like the US, the British Isles and Australia have all sorts of _different_ signal systems in use in various areas.

We have a counter that we can push a zero button on it. We hit the button once we're clear of the light, and it counts the distance we've traveled according to the wheels.

Thx for the speedy reply Ian. I guess it was so much easier when the rear brakeman could call out from the caboose ;-)

Ian Juby My initial guess was that the rear end device had been fitted with some radio signal indicator that when it passed over a switch it would emit a signal to the controlling locomotive. So, there is a counter. Thanks for this series. I have suggested some of my friends view it. I volunteer in a yard that has vintage railway equipment and we use nothing beyond hand signals.

Train crews also need to be familiarized with a line they operate on.

An engineer familiar with his route will also have a rough idea where the end of his train is without the use of the counter. Not exact of course, but a good idea.

+Kevin Rudko Cool! Thanks for that. Just what little I've seen of the signals in GTA, wow that would be a confusing mess! haha!

I got a question for ya Kevin: Actually, two questions. 1) We're in the siding in siding controlled territory, and the opposing train is now occupying the controlled location (head end is past the controlled location, mid-train is occupying the location). If the tail end of the train rolls past the bond into the controlled location, does that send alarms? Or is the controlled location simply one block itself, and thus the passing train has already knocked the block down and so the system can't tell which train is holding the block down? 2) Why is it that we have to get work authority when we tie back on to our train but our head end is in the controlled location? We can't just go forward without RTC permission - why not?

Ian Juby Q1) I'm not quite sure what alarm you are commenting on here. Your train is tucked away nicely in the dark siding and an opposing train rolls by picking up the block it just vacated with the tail end still in the control location track circuit.Maybe you can give a bit more. Q2) You are referring to a rule 566 I think. The issue here is that for some controlled locations the normal interlocking functions preventing an opposing movement from the next controlled location (function called traffic locking) is circumvented if you back up out of a route. The written authority is part of the RTC's manual protection of the whole control block between control points, similar to entering main track between signals under 568 without electric lock.

Hi Kevin - thanks. Q1) I'm referring to a stop signal violation basically. Alarms go off in RTC center when we go through a red of course - even our tail end. This was just something someone mentioned to me the other day about how the controlled location is, effectively, it's its own block and so a train holding down the block is a train holding down the block - the system can't tell which train it is (unless of course the tail end of train 1 rolls into the block before it gets occupied by the opposing train which would drop the block and cause stains in the seats of the opposing train). If the train #2 has gone through the controlled location, it's holding down that block which would be the same block going into the siding until the bond - so if the tail end rolled out, it wouldn't show up on the RTC panel? I'm not trying to get away with anything here, just inquiring minds wanna know. haha! Q2) Okay, that makes sense - thanks for that.

1. The "controlled location" is a separate signal block in and of itself, but it's not called a signal block because it's shared between both directions of interlocking signals. The "controlled location" is like its own private island where the surrounding block signals get to take part if the interlocking deems it safe to do so. Most dispatcher/RTC/CTC panels I have seen will show the occupancy of the "controlled location" but are not able to distinguish between which track(s) is actually occupied. If the passing train clears the "controlled location" then they are subject to the signal indication for re-entering that location, and so immediately rolling back into it would entail passing a STOP SIGNAL which would be a no-no. 2. I may not have the complete story on this answer (Kevin's surely applies too), but making a stop within a "controlled location" is frowned upon within the rules because of limitations of detection systems in some interlockings. Rusty rail or wheels are two such possible limitations. The way detection works across rails and frogs is another, and some interlockings have used things like flange treadles to determine when switches should be locked or not. If the equipment sitting in the controlled location is not detected correctly then it's (remotely?) possible a conflicting movement could be arranged before you move. The RTC must ensure that the correct route is still lined and locked before you can move. Hope that helps.

I'd have to double check the rules book, but I don't believe so.

Ian Juby ok thanks

But that just isn't enough information. There's a lot more opportunity to needlessly waste time driving a train across Canada than driving across the UK. That time adds up. A single yellow [_amber_ in UK parlance] means you're going to stop at the next signal. But if you're not... there's no point here in showing it. There is also no such things as Approach-Release on US/Canada freight railroads.

ha! True dat

Southern Ontario Railfan haha! Ya, and I actually had a signal in there that's not in the rulebook it turns out. :)

I agree. It's the best they can do. :)

+yabbaguy Improper signal progression. The crews are to be aware of that and act accordingly.

Most signal systems are designed so that if a failure is detected, the signals ahead of them respond accordingly. For example, if a flasher failure drops a signal from LIMITED TO CLEAR to MEDIUM TO CLEAR, the signal before that might also drop from (e.g.) CLEAR TO LIMITED to CLEAR TO MEDIUM. The preceding signal might also just drop to CLEAR TO STOP. This is because a failed flasher can fail not just to keep the green solid, but to also make the lamp stay dark. Red over Dark over Red is not a valid signal aspect in the CROR, so the signal is improperly displayed. -As all improperly displayed signals are supposed to be interpreted as their most-restrictive indication, the train would have to stop at that signal (since a signal showing LIMITED TO CLEAR would have a most-restrictive-possible indication of STOP SIGNAL).-

Jovetj​ for the bottom part: If yellow or green is still being displayed on a light, the most restrictive indication possible does not apply. They proceed prepared to stop at the next signal, slowing down slow speed ONLY if there is a switch present.

Yes, you are quite correct. That is a unique faucet of the CROR I did not know!

Limited to stop. Limited speed passing signal and through turnouts, preparing to stop at next signal.

Yes there is. All they have to do is use the electronic signage method that is used over roadways. Such overhead signage read things like 'Accident 2 miles Ahead' or 'Reduce Speed Ahead', etc. These are actual messages that are sent to the signs from the traffic control center that change depending on the what is happening. This is simpler and clearly safer as there is no need to remember 50 combinations of lights.

Bonk your head. There is only speed signalling in Canada.

@@enochliu8316 Oh! Didnt realise that at all, I thought that route signalling was universal as well as speed signalling.

Railroading is a profession and it takes a while to learn everything, like any other professional. we often refer to people like doctors and lawyers as professionals and everyone else seems to be uneducated idiots. That is not true. These people who operate trains are highly trained.

+Szymon Gorczynski Ridiculously complicated. You know that is true when it takes 4 parts to explain them.

Tommy Truth Under the British signalling system you have 4 aspects to remember + an extra 4 for diversionary routes and your semaphore signals. This is just pathetic.

+Szymon Gorczynski Anybody who can learn all of this belongs in medical school or getting a PHD in physics.

+Szymon Gorczynski It really isn't that complicated. Once you know them you don't forget them.

***** Cause by the time you manage to memorise it you're dead.