Since Rob doesn't do R2R Dacs, might be good to interview Schiit next since they do both delta sigma and and R2R
@PassionforSound4 жыл бұрын
Nice idea, Gilbert!
@sc0or2 жыл бұрын
Shiit does not use DAC11001, but uses one of cheaper model, which has certain issues with glitches. So, Shiit is not about a sound, but rather about a design imho
@TheOShow354 жыл бұрын
Finally it's making more sense to me. Thanks for sharing..
@PassionforSound4 жыл бұрын
Glad it helped!!
@jasmeetsinghism4 жыл бұрын
Underrated channel, very good approach
@PassionforSound4 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@ZadiusTech4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for doing this, a lot of useful information. The next step like someone else has mentioned in the comments is to interview a company that specializes in R2R DACs and have them tell us how R2R DACs are better than Delta-Sigma... I find it interesting how he mentioned that DSD was a step back in that when listening to DSD audio files on iFi DSD DACs sounds leagues better than non-DSD audio files (even other people I let listen confirmed this), so I'm a bit confused if the DSD he is talking about is the DSD audio format or something completely different having to do with Delta-Sigma.
@PassionforSound4 жыл бұрын
Hi Zadius, the step backwards he's talking about is in relation to single bit DSD versus m-bit DSD which uses a few bits. By the time DSD (single bit) recording was invented, we already had m-bit tech that was superior, but to record in m-bit requires gobs of data. Take a look at the size of a DSD file and then imagine back in the 90s when memory was smaller and more expensive of they had to make files exponentially larger (i.e. 3 or 4 bits instead of 1). So Rob's point, as I understand it, is not that DSD was worse than PCM (FLAC), but that it was not as good as the m-bit tech available at the time.
@marcelwenting3 жыл бұрын
@@PassionforSound this needs to be viewed in the context of hard-copy media, i.e. cds. That means a ~700MB data budget to store the music. Using multi-bit encoding would not fit a traditional album on a cd. 1-bit DSD was a big improvement over PCM, because it meant the recording and playback systems could use sigma-delta ADCs and DACs, which at the time where a step up from the direct conversion tech available.
@SweAussie3 жыл бұрын
Love these interviews, keep em coming!🌟
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
Glad you like them, Oskar! I've got two more lined up with Audiofly and Geshelli Labs
@SweAussie3 жыл бұрын
@@PassionforSound learning a lot from these. Keep em coming! ❤️ I think Rob's understanding goes deeper than many others in the industry, would love to try some of Chord's stuff. If they release a mojo 2 I will just get it anyway. Should be about time for a refresh. Thanks again for great content!👍
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
Glad they're helpful. Speaking to Rob was like drinking from a fire hose in terms of the knowledge he has. I'm excited to see what someone like Mike Moffat is like in comparison because despite their different approaches, I kind of see them both as contemporaries in terms of innovation and creativity in their DAC designs.
@SweAussie3 жыл бұрын
@@PassionforSound down the rabbit hole we go!👍
@giogrig65744 жыл бұрын
look forward to see part 2, good job on this one !
@PassionforSound4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Gio!
@yooanto94654 жыл бұрын
@@PassionforSound Ask him about The Ring technology in dCS I want to hear his honest opinion , I had many dacs last was Dave , new coming is Bartok from dCS
@PassionforSound4 жыл бұрын
Hi Yoo, the interview was all recorded in one session so I can't add additional content for the remaining parts
@512bb4 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much for the great interview. My interpretation of the R2R vs DSD hit me that because its easier to design a R2R based unit I would think it has a distinct advantage at the low priced DACs like you have been using as opposed to the complexity of doing DSD its just not as competitive with the R2R at the lower price points. Thats how it came across to me so I think you were both right. None the less I really appreciate your terrific interview & the opportunity to listen to one of the truly great designers in the audio industry. I have a great deal of respect & admiration for Rob. Can't wait for part 2!!!!
@PassionforSound4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Scott. Yes, I think it's a good idea to be cautious of low prices R2R DACs. It's a wonder the Airist R2R sounded as good as it did. Glad you enjoyed part 1!
@marcelwenting3 жыл бұрын
the cost of a system is only partly determined by the development cost. generally, the cost of components dominates. super low tolerance, i.e. highly matched, resistors are not cheap. therefore, a delta-sigma based dac can also be competitive at lower price-points. as usual, the correct answer is: it depends :)
@whiskeytangohotel66242 жыл бұрын
I like how he trashes R2R then admits he only heard 1.
@PassionforSound2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I wasn't fan of that either!
@LakerTriangle3 жыл бұрын
Like your conclusion - more than one way to do things.
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
100%
@JudgeFredd Жыл бұрын
Great interview
@PassionforSound Жыл бұрын
Glad you liked it! Thanks for letting me know 🙂
@tomislavgasparic81004 жыл бұрын
I think it is matter of what one belive in, or want to sell. This guy works fo Chord who don´t produce R2R dacs, period. In my listening , and technical opinion R2R i more natural way do convert PCM to analog. The only problem today is that semiconductor companies do not produce IC R2R dac chips anymore, so they must be done in "discrete" way which is problematic in terms of precision and stability. I listen to(own) DAC based on old AD1856 R2R and still sounds like best of digital, it sounds fluid, very dynamic, great sense of ambience , like you are there in recording you listen to. It sound more like analog source than digital one. All delta-sigma dacs I tried have tendency to sound artificially, gray sounding in one word, without real vitality in presentation .
@PassionforSound4 жыл бұрын
Hi Tomislav, no doubt Rob is focused on his philosophy. At some point I hope to conduct a similar interview with an R2R specialist.
@jdavis2343 жыл бұрын
Much respect to Chord. Although, he says he has heard only one r2r dac in five years and doesn’t listen much to the competition. Hard to take the r2r argument seriously.
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
I tend to agree on that point. I think he's basing his decision on theory more than listening which is not a philosophy I agree with. No doubt his DAC designs are world class, but rarely is anything so black and white.
@SupraBecks Жыл бұрын
7:39 love it! 😂
@PassionforSound Жыл бұрын
He's fairly strong with his convictions 😉
@musicxxa66783 жыл бұрын
This is really good video. Good job man.
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
Thank you! 🙂 Glad it's helpful
@Sparta1554 жыл бұрын
R2R DACs have a number of advantages over Delta Sigma - they have much less out of band noise (DS DACs chuck out lots of high frequency noise which requires much filtering to remove), R2R DACs are less sensitive to jitter and R2R have less noise modulation. Their lack of linearity can be compensated by various techniques, such as via DSP or co-linear architecture. Rob Watts is giving a very one sided view.
@PassionforSound4 жыл бұрын
Hi Dan, I agree that Rob is focussed on his approach as the right approach (understandably) and I definitely intend to conduct another interview in the future with someone who makes R2R DACs so we can hear both sides of the story
@ACM1000000PT4 жыл бұрын
@@PassionforSound There is denafrips and audio GD, BOTH make R2R.
@amdenis Жыл бұрын
I agree with you that many DS DAC’s have a hard, analytical, edgy nature, whereas a good R-2R can be much more natural sounding. A well implemented AKM tends to have better characteristics than most Sabre’s, but it also depends on other design and related factors. Rob has a horse on thus race and the fact he rallies so hard against R-2R DAC’s is a function of the fact that so many audiophiles and high end reviewers put many of the best high-end DAC’s that are often R-2R against his FPGA, which forces Rob to feel he has fight that battle. Also, Rob has mostly listened to old, R-2R DAC’S back when it was a cost-savings or sheer necessity, and they were based on much lower tolerance resistors than we have today. The fact is that there are sooo many differences between his FPGA design and all of the typical Delta-Sigma’s that he really is enabling a bit of a false comparison. We have a range of DS, NOS and FPGA DAC’s in the studios and media lab here, and generally find all but the best (most expensive ) DS DAC’S to be more edgy and artifact laden, even though some measure better than a lower-end R-2R.
@PassionforSound Жыл бұрын
Yes, I don't agree with Rob's definitive stance on DAC technologies because there's always new stuff coming, but he's also in a unique position of expertise to discuss the superiority of his approach compared to other Sigma Delta DAC chips on the market.
@caseyodonnell66214 жыл бұрын
Very interesting. Thanks!
@PassionforSound4 жыл бұрын
You're welcome. I hope you enjoy the rest
@rangerscoach2 жыл бұрын
I demoed a quetest and bought a Pontus 2 a week later. I think the r2r dacs have more going on, call it colouration if you will but to me it sounds better on everything
@joyoffilming95003 жыл бұрын
Great interview!
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
Glad you liked it. Rob is incredibly knowledgeable
@SkeledroMan3 жыл бұрын
I wonder what rob would say about the Holo Audio May R2R DAC, an R2R dac that actually measures really well even compared with good measuring delta sigma stuff.
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
By the sound of it, he wouldn't even listen to it ☹️. I respect his choice to focus only on his approach, but there are no doubt other wonderful DACs on the market doing it differently.
@SkeledroMan3 жыл бұрын
@@PassionforSound holo May works very well with an Mscaler as it happens
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
Interesting! I hope to try one someday
@mrtim64794 жыл бұрын
I really enjoy your reviews and interviews. I am a Chord Mojo owner. One thing I never heard answered is why Chord decided on using USB to interface the Poly and Mojo, and Hugo and 2Go? Is the reason for versatility and support of the different streams that are supported using that interface? The reason for my question is I am reading from many Chord owners that Coax and Optical is superior in SQ. Supposedly Rob Watts has stated optical was better sounding than USB. Perhaps in the future you could evaluate a music streamer (Auralic Aries or similar) and compare the different input types and provide your thoughts as to which interface would provide the best SQ?
@PassionforSound4 жыл бұрын
Hi Mr Tim, glad you're enjoying the channel - thanks for watching! That's an interesting question about the USB interface. My assumption is that they are drawing some power from the Mojo/Hugo as I don't believe there'd be a battery on-board the Poly/2go. That said, I guess they could have used optical as well. If I chat to Rob Watts again, I'll see if I can find out. As for testing different inputs, I often do this in my reviews, but I have found more and more of late that there is less difference between USB and other interfaces as companies are becoming more aware of the need for galvanic isolation. That's not to say it's irrelevant so much as that it used to make a significant difference and now it's one of those 'last 1%' type of improvements.
@marcelwenting3 жыл бұрын
@@PassionforSound ideally every interface even would use light for data and copper only for power. do keep in mind that even then, a good re-clocking at the receiving end is vital. as it is, copper is good enough and systems can be designed to mitigate the added noise and interference introduced by usb. TLDR: usb is the path of least resistance ;)
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
Yes, light is great if it can be implemented as well and carry the same bandwidth (for those wanting DSD, etc.) but it seems to be poorly implemented quite often
@EllasPOSEiDON3 жыл бұрын
Mr. Rob Watts really knows about technical parts, but hearing that from someone who is a creator he doesn't listen to R2R or whatever kind of dacs in the past 5 years, it's incredible! Like when you push your head down into the ground and don't want to see and hear anything about your surroundings "because you believe" you're better. In my dictionary there is no such word as "believe". Try, do, make, probe, explore, but not believe. He is a professional creator, creates very well, he should be wide open for every kind of knowledge. He should know that his opinion is one opinion only, but there is no such opinion as best. Not on this planet for sure. Btw, I really, really love FPGA dacs, specially the AudioByte HydraVOX.
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
Hi EP, I kind of agree with you on that one. I think it's helpful to understand what others are doing even if you don't agree with their approach. I'm actually reviewing the Denafrips Ares II R2R at the moment and it's making me think that Rob is mistaken in his immediate dismissal of R2R as a valid approach.
@darrens76034 жыл бұрын
The R2R distortion sounds more musical to most people. I've had non-audiophiles listen through Topping E30 (sigma-delta) and Schiit modi multibit (R2R), every single time, every listener preferred R2R sound. Only one yound person chose Topping E30 since he liked brighter edgy details over smoothness and holographic sound of multibit
@PassionforSound4 жыл бұрын
I think at this level that's probably true in a lot of cases. More sophisticated Delta-Sigma designs do improve on that in my experience, but R2R still has it's own enjoyable sound.
@rktrkt-tw8nd3 жыл бұрын
there are many ways you can add distortion for your liking. best is to listen am radio, you will get lot more distortion, why to buy so much expensive r2r dacs. :)
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
That's kind of true. The Schiit Multibit uses a resistor ladder (in a chip) and they apply their own filtering and DSP to the signal. Other R2R companies use actual discrete resistors, but they also apply their own DSP and filtering too.
@rktrkt-tw8nd3 жыл бұрын
Better measuring r2r dacs like holo and denafrips sound more like ds dacs, in one forum it was mentioned.😂 So if distortion is what people look for in r2r dac, they should listen am radio music. It gives lot more distortion.😎
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
I totally disagree with whoever wrote that in the forum you were reading. The Ares II sounds nothing like a DS DAC and, based on a lot of the comments and reviews I've read, neither do the other Denafrips DACs. The Schiit Bifrost 2 is a little closer in sound to DS, but it's got far better 3-dimensionality. Just because distortion figures are the same, it doesn't mean things sound the same - there's more to it.
@Coneman33 жыл бұрын
I suspect the main factor is the implementation. Aries Cerat claim that DAC chips present an inherent limitiation in hi-end possibilities which can only be surpassed by superb R2R. I suspect this is true for ultra hi-end but for more modest DACs implementation probably rules. I have ordered a Jay's Audio DAC2 Sig for £2698 which might be not as good in some ways as a Denafrips Terminator for £4500, but sure presents better vfm, and in some ways is supposed to better the Termi.. So Delta Sigmas present better value in general, as they are cheaper to make, especially from China!
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
Exactly. It's all about cost versus performance. Rob's approach is based on the same opinion of the limitation of DAC chips which leaves me currently thinking that either Chord FPGA, R2R or one of the other unique approaches like DCS might be the best choice of cost is no object.
@gauranggppatkar29684 жыл бұрын
It feels like there is some unknown factor which is yet to be considered to make Delta Sigma DACs sound like R2R.
@PassionforSound4 жыл бұрын
I think they'll always be different and that's not a bad thing. Some people love the DS sound while others love the R2R sound. By having both, everyone can find a DAC they enjoy :)
@gauranggppatkar29684 жыл бұрын
@@PassionforSound You are right. Its good that even in this age where people want the best of all products there is some field where there is no best and all the bests are still subjective.
@marcelwenting3 жыл бұрын
@@gauranggppatkar2968 best is ALWAYS subjective, because it implicitly assumes some order of importance on all a systems parameters. That ordering is what makes any 'best' something personal and not something fundamental to the universe.
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
Exactly. There are too many variables and too much grey area in audio for many things to be definitive.
@vivianvaldi78713 жыл бұрын
The music intro is like a laser canon destroying my walls. Do I need some more Hifi equipment like a dual Crown tower 20.000 W to make it even more destructive ? Thx for advices folks.
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
Sorry about that. I've fixed my levels a bit on future videos. These were relatively early in my career on KZfaq.
@tomhirschel85243 жыл бұрын
It would be interesting to know what companies use what type .... DCS Vivaldi ? MSB Select? Meridian Ultra Dac, TAD 1000 . Some DAC'S are just Crazy expensive? Compare different DAC'S at different price points....What everyone is after is realism. How do you get there for the least expense.....
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
Hi Tom, so far in my experience, the most realistic presentation at the cheapest price has been the Schiit Bifrost 2. That thing is wonderful!
@yooanto94654 жыл бұрын
He only listen to 1 r2r dac and he say r2r dacs are bad compare to my dacs . this is big mistake tbh
@PassionforSound4 жыл бұрын
I don't necessarily agree with Rob's opinions on R2R. He has a clear way of working and strong justifications for his approach. Having recently compared the Gumby and Qutest, I DO believe his approach is better, but I also believe that good R2R DACs can still be extremely good (at least subjectively).
@yooanto94654 жыл бұрын
@@PassionforSound I know why many prefered r2r because of it more natural ,fuller sound but chord dac bring detail in impressive way not depth and soundstage , M scaler sound really good but it didn't change the sound of my dave as much as I would like . you have to be aware of other dacs and compare your best dac to them so , I think last time I heard Bartok it sounded better than my Dave .
@Coneman33 жыл бұрын
The Holo Audio May DAC measure really well, which is rare for R2r. I bet it sounds amazing.
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
I want to try some of the Holo gear at some point
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't say that R2R technology is outdated just because it's been around the longest. It's just a different approach with its own pros and cons
@adeadcrab4 жыл бұрын
very interesting..
@manueljenkin953 жыл бұрын
Hi friends, what was the term rob mentioned at 5.49? Something like girle (or gargle) tones.
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
He said "gurgle tones". I have no idea what they are and missed it during the interview to ask him. Also can't find any references anywhere so perhaps it's his own term?
@manueljenkin953 жыл бұрын
@@PassionforSound I'm not sure. Rob generally uses terms that can be described as some general engineering term (noise floor modulation, etc) than most of the vague terms others use so it's less likely to be a term he made up. If you can get in touch with him again, please do let me know his explanation on this.
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
Will do 🙂
@siddharthjaiman47122 жыл бұрын
That distortion in the opening sequence was super annoying. Really relevant video though.
@PassionforSound2 жыл бұрын
Glad you liked the video. Sorry you didn't like the opening.
@BrentLeVasseur3 жыл бұрын
Great interview! Actually R2R DACs can objectively outperform Sigma Delta DACs because they can be measured in the signal to noise ratio. If you watch the review Golden Sound did on the Holo May he shows that based on objective measurements that the R2R Holo May out performs the Chord Dave with M Scaler. He shows the graph for both and the Holo May, which has -145 db noise floor and can perfectly reproduce a sign wave with almost no distortion, where as the Chord Dave with M Scaler has a higher noise floor and can’t reproduce a perfect sign wave as well as the May can. You should talk to Tim Connor at Kitsume and get a demo model for testing and review.
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
Hi Brent, I don't necessarily agree with Rob's assertions that R2R DACs are inherently flawed. I do believe his approach to the filtering of the signals is outstanding, but no doubt there are amazing R2R implementations too. I'm yet to watch GoldenSound's review of the Holo May, but I am keen to and will try again (I've tried once before) to get a review sample of the May. I do believe there might be more to the end result than what can be measured objectively because there are things that we still don't understand and can't measure relating to our perception of sound, but I'm keen to hear the May for myself before drawing any conclusions.
@BrentLeVasseur3 жыл бұрын
@@PassionforSound Pretty much everything Rob said was spot on accurate. He wasn’t lying or spewing propaganda. However, he just didn’t have access to the people knowledgeable enough on how to make an R2R ladder DAC outperform and overcome it’s resistor tolerance problem. To my knowledge, Kitsume is the first to do that. They also implimented a full R2D ladder DAC for DSD on top of the PCM ladder DAC for FLAC. So they went way way over the top, which is why it’s such a special DAC. And the result is something that sounds about as close to a very high end analogue turn table or Reel to Reel player as you can get in a digital medium. And for $4k it’s an absolute giant killer as it can beat DACs costing 3-4X as much.
@darrens76034 жыл бұрын
FPGAs are more powerful provided the designer knows what he's doing. The primary reason is upgradeability and cost savings.
@tomislavgasparic81004 жыл бұрын
And one more thing about delta-sigma (name itself talk about principle) i strong feedback and time domain issues. They measure great on continuous predictable signals, but music is all than continuous signal. And also too much of needed processing i DS dacs. I have feeling that every process in digital domain push us as listeners away from music itself.
@PassionforSound4 жыл бұрын
That was my belief as well. Having spoken to Rob Watts and done further investigation, I don't necessarily believe that anymore. The challenge we all face with digital audio is that the digital file doesn't contain a continuous signal and had to be rebuilt. To properly rebuild the signal (taking high speed transients into account), I now believe that there does need to be a level of complexity and feedback in the reconstruction filters.
@20puskinas19923 жыл бұрын
no need to talk all this nonsense and just say that Chord dacs is less sensitive to jitter cause their approach can get away with average clock. Given great oven controlled clock delta sigma dac will have no jitter whatsoever.
@bongofury31764 жыл бұрын
Rob has DAC'd my entire world...all Chorded up...
@PassionforSound4 жыл бұрын
:-) So you've already bought Chord products or you're going to after hearing him speak?
@bongofury31764 жыл бұрын
@@PassionforSound Already fully Chorded...and not a hint of bondage !!
@bongofury31764 жыл бұрын
well...maybe a hint...
@trevorharrison293 жыл бұрын
FPGAs do have a role to play in R2R Dacs , from the likes of Rockna and Audio-DG (to name but a few) : www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R1/R1EN.htm
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
Hi Trevor, I think the point was that the FPGA is being used for controller duties in the Audio-gd and other DACs. In the Chord DACs they are doing the actual decoding and filtering. Of course, R2R doesn't need an FPGA for decoding - it has the resistor ladders for that.
@trevorharrison293 жыл бұрын
@@PassionforSound Right. Right. From the Audio-DG's product own product specs: "A basic R2R ladder is simply not sufficient enough to achieve good performance and sound quality! " and also "An ultra-fast FPGA controls and corrects the R2R ladder.".
@wojciechczupta3 жыл бұрын
Rob sounded annoyed by some of the questions :) I believe both Schiit and Chord are great DACs. The rest is individual taste and how they fit in given system. I'm big fan of Schiit Yggy though. Amazing stuff for the money
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
I agree about the Schiit and Chord DACs. Rob is a lovely guy and very generous with his time so I doubt he was annoyed. Some of them may have been a bit low level for the expertise that he operates with though 🙂
@wojciechczupta3 жыл бұрын
@@PassionforSound I mean your statement about Gumby when Rob bacame a bit tensed. I love his work and I will probably try out Dave though I find it expensive. I had TT2 in my system and yggy prevailed
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
Ah, yes, I felt like I had to defend the Schiit approach a little in that moment. Not that either is better, but both are very good I think. I'm still super keen to try the Yggy and hearing that you prefer it to the TT2 only makes me more curious!
@wojciechczupta3 жыл бұрын
I don't remember much now, just schiit sound being more natural and pleasing and also a bit more refined in base (thinner though). TT2 seamed to be more clockwork. I run it with active ATC SCMs 100 and cheap schiit pre (Freya +) which was to be a temporary solution but it's quite hard to beat honestly
@PassionforSound3 жыл бұрын
I love Mike's Multibit approach. To my ears it produces the best non-Chord DACs I've heard so far (but there's still room to hear plenty more)
@truthseeker66493 жыл бұрын
of course he defended his company. he works for them.
@Cestmoi50 Жыл бұрын
It is only a shame that you have to spend your few months salary to get the decent models of Chord. And there is nothing in between in their brand, Either spend a fortune for the desktop versions, or have nothing (the mobile versions I take out of the equasion, because they have batteries, and the qutest is just a extreme cutdown hugo) I know it is a personal opinion, but I really don't like brands that ask so so extreme amount of money for their devices, that normal people can't afford them anylonger (see the price of a dave or tt2, the lower models are quite a step down, and the qutest is just almost a hugo with removed amp section) And yes ofcourse I believe a M-scaler and tt2 sounds amazing, it better be for 12000 a pair, or Dave 13000, and then he has a qutest, fully cut down of any possible option and calls that a comparable midrange model?? There are way way more brands that don't go in such extreme pricings, brand like Chord make it a little niche market, where people love to show of, look what I have got, what you can't affort... I seriously think that it is sad in this hifi market. I worked in a shop when I was younger, there the margins where already extreme, our shops were forced to charge a specific minimum price for equipment, B&W for example had rules on prices, otherwise they would take away our dealership, margins of sometimes double the price. Brands like Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony for example were never that extreme back than. The British Brands were actually the most extreme with those rules, NAD, B&W, Chord (as well). And for example Canada 'Totem speakers', there we had to charge more than 13000 euro a pair (where the shops purchase price was half that! HALF!). And yes I understand you don't want to lay in the Wall Mart, a Big W, but prices are sometimes crazy in hifi, especially because I am aware what the average shop purchase prices were back then already (that hasn't changed) And it actually makes me sad for the people who love music and can't afford it because of that. because of people like Rob Watts that think that prices like this are okay. Burson have high end stuff, they don't even charge this kind of money, Violectric don't even go this far. Instead of letting 20 people enjoy it, because it is affordable (in the end making the same profit) Now only 1 can enjoy it, because the rest don't have that kind of money, oh well I made my point. My comment had nothing to do with you, but thanks for the video, always like your honest reviews!!, actually hoping you understand what I am trying to explain here
@PassionforSound Жыл бұрын
I understand where you're coming from and appreciate the comment, but it's not a case of these companies just arbitrarily deciding on a price. There are multiple factors involved including how long the development process took and therefore the cost of that time, the value of the unique design approaches and technologies, and then the cost to produce and provide warranty/service. Expecting these sorts of products to be priced at the same level as something from Topping or SMSL (for example) is like expecting to buy a premium car with leading edge features, higher quality materials and advanced engineering for the same price as a basic hatchback from Toyota, Hyundai or Kia. I'm not having a go at you because I understand that it's hard when a product like this is out of reach, but the pricing is fair for the quality and technology IMO. Also, the Qutest is much better than I think you're giving it credit for. Yes, it's the same DAC stage as the Hugo 2, but it adds galvanic isolation on the USB socket and has full sized BNC connectors in case you want to feed it with an M-Scaler
@Cestmoi50 Жыл бұрын
@@PassionforSound I understand what you mean, and agree ofcourse to some level what you are explaining. But prices have gone up the last few years to extreme levels for some brands (even for already existing products). And yes some comments I took a little out of proportion to explain a point ;-). And not all brands do it this badly and force extreme margins to products. Just think it is a shame indeed when some products are so extreme out of reach to most people, especially if you love music. And having worked in that kind of shops and knowing how strict some brands were on forced minimum to charge prices, they could have been a little relaxed and let the shop have a little more freedom in that. Thanks for your point of view, appreceate it 👍🏼
@stoicar Жыл бұрын
What is chord doing in the last 3 years ? Not even checking the competition???
@ZZ-yv5ux2 жыл бұрын
7:40,such a turn off from a closed-minded person. Some of the best measured DACs are R2R DAC from the likes of MSB, Sonnet, Holo. In fact, I just got the Sonnet Pasithea whose noise floor measures -160db. And I compared it to the Chord DAVE that I have and more than twice the price of the Sonnet, the Pasithea easily beats the DAVE in nearly all aspects. I sold the DAVE after the comparison.
@PassionforSound2 жыл бұрын
I agree that I found that statement a little to definitive for my tastes.
@1jhnpennington2 жыл бұрын
Exactly. Surely you would want to compare your products to your competitors.
@darrens76034 жыл бұрын
Rob Watts is all about measurements than listening. Sigma-delta goes for edginess, which was never how music instruments sound. R2R add distortions that make it sound more natural: the timbre of voices, those warmth of instruments, they all sound more real.
@PassionforSound4 жыл бұрын
Hi Tarandeep. You really need to watch more of this series before saying something like that. Rob believes in (and discusses) the importance of BOTH listening and measurement and why either one without the other is not ideal. I'm not suggesting that Rob's philosophies are necessarily "right" - it's probably not as black and white as that, but it's misleading to suggest that he doesn't value listening.
@KaneAmaroq3 жыл бұрын
@Tarandeep Singh That is literally not true at all. Please don't make claims about technology that you don't actually understand.
@emjay9733 Жыл бұрын
🐍🛢️
@PassionforSound Жыл бұрын
LOL 🤦♂️
@robertlee9935 Жыл бұрын
Shits all over r2r then says this 15:40
@PassionforSound Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I was a little surprised by that one, but was also too new to things back then to feel like I had sufficient experience of all different R2R DACs to challenge that.
@jdm-uk-yank Жыл бұрын
My ways right, everyone else is wrong mentality doesn't seem like the best business model. ONE R2R in five years. There's a reason people love Denafrips. I'll bet he's a measurement only guy that threw away his vinyl.
@PassionforSound Жыл бұрын
I agree with the black and white mentality being not the best approach. Beyond that, you're making inaccurate assumptions.