Listen to the Buddha’s teachings and meditate to attain First Jhanna following the Anapanasati breathing meditation

+Sikki goh www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn41/sn41.006.than.html

Meditate and see what this all about :-)

Dear @Sikki goh, all of the key terms you are using are precisely defined in the Pali. The English translations are just words that may help us understand or misunderstand. The late venerable Punnaji is here knowingly using English terminology in direct contradiction with earlier translation. Yet he provides the precise Pali in this presentation. You can probably work out the answer to your questions by simply knowing the Pali of all of the terms you've mentioned. I will add my own understanding and unfortunately my misunderstand. The word cessation is nirodha. It is used in reference to the goal, the explicit simile, is the blowing out of a candle. Yes, it is the cessation of flame, but how? The flame is fuelled by the combination of wick, wax, and heat. Only the heat is eliminated and the light ceases. Tactile stimuli (rather than sight, sound, thoughts, etc) arise in/as sanna, vedana, sankhara dependant upon kaya phassa (often translated as "contact" although Punnaji has a different understanding in this video). "Mano" and "Kaya" have subtle different meanings dependant upon context, a bit like adjectives (maybe exactly adjectives). Kamma (generally) has three forms: mano, vaci, kaya, arising dependant upon the corresponding sankhara (a mental process). By Mano in your question, it sounds as though you mean mano-vinnana; if so No, not directly. Mano-vinnana are thoughts arising not from phassa of the "five senses". The unenlightened mind perceives (sanna, vedana, sankhara) and from Punnaji's presentation dependant upon sankhara (or all three) vinnana arises. Where the adjectives "Kaya" and "Mano" (and "Vaci") are found in that process is up to you. Yes the tactile contact is Kaya phassa, yes it's all mano after that, with potentially mano, vaci, and/or kaya result.

Answering the last again first: there are six senses or "entrance doors": eye, ear, nose, tongue, touch/kaya/body, and mano/thoughts. Your experience is all mind (mano) even your experience of a cup (rupa) is mano (you do not experience physical cup directly). Yet we refer to those mental objects as mano, vaci, or kaya, which are more like adjectives. For example, vitakka and vicaya (say discursive directed thought and analytic thoughts in the English language) are vaci sankhara (speech will-creations even though they are all mental processes). You could say the "exit doors" are kaya and vaci (and maybe mano although they don't really exit unless you consider "implanting a thought in someone else's mind" or "reinforce a thought back in your own mind"). The eighth (fourth immaterial) jhana is neva-sanna-na-asanna-yatana. Vennerable Punnaji might translate that as the endeavour of "neither sensation nor non-sensation" but it is most often translated as "neither perception nor non-perception". From the handout, Vennerable Punnaji was referring to sanna-vedayita-nirodha (aka nirodha-samapatti, the ninth jhana) presumably only attainable by an arahant. Physical, emotional, pretty much everything "stopped/ceased". We might say that "the cessation of experience". MN 43 distinguishes a dead body from nirodha-samapatti thusly: "the bodily, verbal and mental functions (kaya, vaci, mano-sankharas) have been suspended and come to a standstill, but life (ayu) is not exhausted, the vital heat not extinguished, and the (spiritual strength) faculties are not destroyed." // Yo cāyaṃ bhikkhu saññāvedayitanirodhaṃ samāpanno tassapi kāyasaṅkhārā niruddhā paṭippassaddhā, vacīsaṅkhārā niruddhā paṭippassaddhā, cittasaṅkhārā niruddhā paṭippassaddhā, āyu na parikkhīṇo, usmā avūpasantā, indriyāni vippasannāni. // sanna = perception, recognition (Punnaji translates as "sensation" in this video). Example "red color". yatana = endeavour, undertaking vedana = sense experience (pain, pleasant, neutral) most often translated "feeling" (as Punnaji does) or "sensation" vedayita = feeling, experience (according to the PTS Pali-English disctionary, p 648)

I came to Bhante’s Punaji’s video through my researching to give context to my meditative experience. Because many people keep telling me that cessation or Nirodha Samapatti is a state. Where as I didn’t experienced it as a state. Moreover, Bhante’s explanation was quite clear that once you experience Nirodha or the 9th Jhana, you gained the insight of Nirodha Samapatti, which is an direct experience into the process which constructs the self. After that you can’t be fooled into believing that the self exists again. What I experienced before coming to Bhante’s teachings is that the five aggregates gradually falls away by successive deepening of the Jhanas. By the 4th Jhaana, emotions/sensations and thoughts had been eliminated. By the 5th, form is gone. By the 6th consciousness is seen as all pervasive and as one with everything. By the 7th Sankhara is absent so duality of perception ceases. Everything is appearing yet perceived as empty. By the 8th very little consciousness is left to perceive anything, even itself as empty. By the 9th, consciousness is gone. Basically you’re in a state of deep rest, liken being in dreamless sleep or a coma. So how do you function in the world to be free of sufferings? Basically you reside in the 7th Jhana during your waking state. This can be accomplished with continuous acceptance of every present moment in your waking hours and diligently practicing the going up and down the Jhanas, Arupas and ceasation daily in your meditation. After a while, all your waking hours becomes a full time meditation practice during all activities. You walk into pleasant experiences the same as traumatic or unpleasant ones, with stability of observation and constantly letting go. This process will purified your body and mind and allows you to remain in the 7th Jhana as a normal state where the self doesn’t really exist much other than consciousness, perception of duality ceases so nothing can really cause a big stir enough to disturb your peace. The other 4 aggregates still function but dialed down probably 80-90%. The more often you remain in the 5th, 6th and 7th Jhana during your waking hours, the more peace you experienced and therefore no sufferings. This is only accomplished by continuously letting go of all mental and emotional phenomena as it arises and dies. Even amidst incredible emotional or physical pain there is no perception of sufferings in the 7th Jhana because there is no perception of anyone there to suffer it. Sankhara is the process which creates the experience of separation in perception of self and others, subject and object. Without Sankhara, sufferings ceases because everything and all mental processes, emotional and sensory experience is seen as empty of existence, so we no longer misidentified it as a self to suffer. That’s the experience I gained from many 31 years of Zen practice. I’m not a natural at it and had to apply myself to it diligently. I could be wrong but so far I noticed that it worked for me. Many other people may be naturally more inclined towards this practice or have different views but in my opinion nothing trumps personal experience.

+Sikki goh Bhante was referring to the stopping (cessation) of Saññā and Vedanā. Traditional translation of Saññā is "perception" but Bhante translates Saññā more precisely (from a scientific perspective) as "Sensation" which is what the sense organs relay to the brain when stimulated by environmental activities. Traditional translations of Vedanā is "feeling" and some traditional teachers call this "emotional feeling" but Bhante has pointed out this is not an emotional feeling. Bhante also translates Vedanā as "feeling" but this is the sensational feeling in the nervous system whether the sensation (Saññā) is pleasant or unpleasant, it is not an emotional feeling. Emotions come later with the reaction of the citta activity of the mind.

I google for the definition of "sensation". This what I got 1. a physical feeling or perception resulting from something that happens to or comes into contact with the body."a burning sensation in the middle of the chest"the capacity to have physical sensations."they had lost sensation in one or both forearms"an inexplicable awareness or impression."she had the eerie sensation that she was being watched"synonyms:feeling, sense, awareness, consciousness, perception, impression "a sensation of light"2. a widespread reaction of interest and excitement. From what Bhante is trying to convey regarding Sanna would it be more towards "an inexplicable awareness or impression"

I have to agree with Sikki even though I am not a scholar. I also think you are on the right path. Use the Pali - English translations for the proper meaning, use few versions as it is hard to translate concepts. Bhante has translation issues (do not use the term 'scientific' here, this is not sciences, leave it for scientists). It is ok as English is not his mother tongue, we all are not perfect, none are. I study using different methods on the same topic to get some sense on concepts.

@@sikkigoh If you look up the Pali word saññā it has these words as its definition: appellation, feeling, hint, perception, sense, signal. dictionary.tamilcube.com/pali-dictionary.aspx

The Pali is more precise, the English (even in cognitive scientific literature) is not. Take the definitions presented here, the dictionary defines Sensation in terms of feeling and perception. Look up perception and it's defined in terms of sensation, feeling, and consciousness. Colloquial English speakers use these terms (and knowledge and awareness and consciousness, etc) interchangeably. The Buddha did not. We know from the Pali that vedana is painful, pleasant, or neutral. We know from the Pali that we recognize colour from eye sañña, but Rupa (image) from eye-vinnana. Sañña is the "meaning within the message", it's the colour, the taste, the tactile sensation, the sign of the signal. Punnaji is correct: light waves are sañña-ed as colour, not "apple". "Apple" is perception. And Punnaji asserts in fact that the named form "apple" is namarupa. The English is imprecise but Punnaji's word choices are enlightening.

Rebirth or reincarnation is a Hindu concept it is not from the Buddha

@ Dimuthu Hay what are you trying to say here? The Enlightened One did not teach theory of relativity, quantum physics, contra eco systems, psychology, philosophy etc etc. What he taught us was how to understand the reality of things/nature for the sake of own enlightenment. I do not know why you brought your complex scientific jargon here. As much as you do not understand your own mumbo jumbo I too do not understand either. I assume you are from Sri Lanka as I have experience with Sri Lankan Buddhist Scientific mumbo jumbo. Just make it simple, ask a western Buddhist monk. He will explain in simple terms as the Enlightened One taught us. No wonder Sri Lankans show their high ego claiming to have the purest and authentic Buddhism in the universe, but engage in endless and senseless rituals including endless merit makings for future "worldly" life. This is not an offence to anyone but true reality of the practice of the purest and authentic Buddhism. In the west we call them as the Teachings of the Buddha (The Enlightened One). We do not make promises (five or eight as laymen and women) but practice in pure mind as things we are suppose and not suppose to do. For example, one need not make a promise not to steal, but the reality of things are, if it is not 'yours' then it is not 'yours' so why take from others. And that is the Dhamma to oneself, the teachings.

You sense it first before you can have a feeling for it.

booba

What's the proper way?