I really enjoyed this conversation with Paul. Here's the outline: 0:00 - Introduction 3:44 - Utopia from an economics perspective 4:51 - Competition 6:33 - Well-informed citizen 7:52 - Disagreements in economics 9:57 - Metrics of outcomes 13:00 - Safety nets 15:54 - Invisible hand of the market 21:43 - Regulation of tech sector 22:48 - Automation 25:51 - Metric of productivity 30:35 - Interaction of the economy and politics 33:48 - Universal basic income 36:40 - Divisiveness of political discourse 42:53 - Economic theories 52:25 - Starting a system on Mars from scratch 55:11 - International trade 59:08 - Writing in a time of radicalization and Twitter mobs

10/10. I've never heard Krugman talk for that long in this manner and now I have a newfound respect for Thomas Sowell. Thank you Lex.

Pretty soon Krugman and the world will find out that debt is not just “money we owe ourselves”.

would it be possible for you to have Nicholas Nassim Taleb on your podcast? Your ability to bring interesting, thoughtful and relevant people to your show is beyond impressive, keep up the good work, amigo.

Loving these economics related podcasts, would love to see more of it!! Thank you Lex and Paul!!

Good talk! It would be great if you could get Nobel Prize-winning development economists Esther Duflo and Abhijit Banerjee on the show. :)

I have to say that this channel is quite a gem by providing viewpoints form a broad range of specialists. This channel is not about creating a common agreement on a given subject but about proposing enlightening content from people usually taken out of context.

Thank you for who you are as a human being Lex. The world needs people like you, stay you.

I’ve been following your channel since the get-go. It grows in status on every level. I’m always educated in fields I’m a non-expert in and inspired by your ability to be smart but never loose the “common touch, “ both as an interviewer and in talking about your area of expertise. Let’s just not mention your humility and relishing the poetic perspectives of humanity. Hope you never loose that. Before I wrote this I was just giving a thumbs up but thought it high time I justified that.

Poasting up the title page to the paper he referenced is a really good edit. Thanks for that it’s a convenient way for viewers to screen cap it for later look up or pause the video and write down the information. Thanks Lex.

Krugman said back in the day that the internet wouldn't have a major economical impact... Now Amazon alone is closing down entire malls and businesses all over the world. Maybe we should take his observations on AI and everything technology related with a pinch of salt

Have been watching Lex for a long time now and interesting to follow his development as an interviewer. He is now much engaging in his role and feels comfortable in challenging or pressing when appropriate. Seeing this interview from 2+ years ago, it was essentially an hour of Paul Krugman to air his views unchallenged and lacked the texture that Lex's current work contains. Lex, great to see your developing your craft and keep doing these interviews. One of the few content creators whose video's I always watch start to finish.

Guest Recommendations: Robert Sapolsky, Eric Lander, Andrew Ng, Fei-Fei Li, Tim Berners-Lee, Tom Leighton

Clear example of why we need younger and more tech savvy voices in our leadership, both in academic thought leadership and in our government.

Thank you Lex I really enjoyed listening to Paul, I bought more Bitcoin and Gold as an immune booster immediately afterwards

One of your best introductions to date. If we're going to break down our filter bubbles, we need to be willing to engage in meaningful dialog with those whom we disagree with.

Thank you for this channel, Lex. I appreciate your work

I wasn't going to listen to this podcast until I heard the intro. Your approach and attitude is very admirable.

Enjoying the podcast so far. What about trying to get someone from a different economic viewpoint now as well? Like Thomas Sowell or someone like that.

Health insurance competition is (intentionally) limited to one or two providers in some states. This is done through regulation (like capital requirements) which effectively makes competition impossible. Also, see the "Contra Krugman" podcast, which refutes every Krugman column ever.

@Lex congrats for having mister Krugman on your podcast ! Thank you for that 👍🏽

Thank you Lex, impressive line-up lately.

Thank you for Mr. Fridman for having Dr. Krugman on your show. His columns in the NYT are worth reading, and although I don't always agree with everything he has to say, he always gives you something to think about.

I came back to the KZfaq version of the podcast with Paul Krugman after listening to it a couple of weeks ago, because I can't remember any of the stuff this dude said. It amazes me that you can win a Nobel prize in economics without saying anything while talking.

I would LOVE to hear a follow-up from him on these topics as they relate to today's new world!

The intro was very well said Lex, thank you.

Thanks for a wonderful intro and an uplifting podcast, as always.

Lex make them longer!

Thank you for your great introduction and as always quality content!

I’ve shared the first 3 minutes of this video because of how important your messaging is at the beginning. Thank you. It is vital that we approach disagreement as an opportunity to come closer through understanding and an open mind, not withdrawing and drifting farther apart. Thank you.

I like that he admits to not knowing what the word “prosaic” means. It takes someone humility on his part. There are ahandful of public figures/speakers that use words or respond to words having no idea what they mean. Good on him A+

I appreciate the intro. But... how can he say that the dmv isn't that bad? Mind blowing.

39:50 that comment about Ayn Rand novels - lol (also I wonder what else he said there that was cut out / there is a tiny morph / cut in there)

Best podcast out there! Thanks LEX!

Has Andrew Yang been on the podcast?

I think Krugman is underestimating the breadth and depth mass automation will have. Predicting the future based on the past doesn't apply when you have something unprecedented. A few isolated sectors aren't going to be impacted, entire industries will be. There is no historical precedent for the potential ramifications of #AI and #Automation replacing human labor in multiple industries all within the same basic time frame. He is correct that in the past, new jobs have been created but he refuses to acknowledge that the issue with automation, robots and ai is that the new jobs will be automated too.

I absolutely adore Paul Krugman ( and of course Lex). His Economies of scale theory of international trade is a small part of my economics module this semester I mostly agree with what he's said in this podcast but from a South African's (not rich like the situations he has been describing) point of view, basic education seems to be the last thing any citizen would want to receive from the government if you can afford otherwise. Profit incentives definitley cultivate a more efficient learning environment (of course with diminishing returns at the higher price range) I say this as a 20 year old who has a basic education built up of half gov and half private regardless though, the education system as we know it is far from optimal and is in dire need of rapid reform (maybe brought about by the 4th industrial revolution and ever growing globilization? ) I feel hopeful at the thought of a more widely accessible, customisable and encouraging education process that can aid in giving all South Africans the dignity that comes with literacy in particular and a confident mind in general but first our society would need to step away from this culture of oppression that has so deeply rooted itself within our trans-generational mindset. the well-informed citizen seems to be a world away and with it lies the respect that my fellow human beings deserve That's why its essential for me to take full advantage of the privilage I hold so that I might help pull a few people up with me

I'm really impressed with the guests lately! Two Nobel prize winners in a row! Really enjoying these conversations.

I have simply loved the podcast of melanie mitchell and Jeff hawkins. I had the same ideas before to see them because I have spend a lot of time writing a text for fun in AI but their point of view was slightly different and I have found them very interesting , if you knwo other people having the same way to see the world I would love to see them as guest.

Thanks Lex, You are one of the men who inspire me so much, and of course many others, back to science and learn from abc..., not only the curious for myself but the most important is my realization, I know nothing about this and that which i seemed to already got them in past (my ignorance, sorry). By the way, keep moving... Happy new lunar year to you and all of your guests Lex. Learn from you so much.

Dude, just your intro is worth the video. Kudos.

I'm here after listening to Saifedean Ammous

That introduction to the podcast. It was a much needed message. You're doing a service to humanity Lex. Thanks!

Krugman should talk about what "competition" (subsidized by governments) does on poor countries that cannot compete, how some countries get ruined by others that make them dependent on their markets, how the production of useless products ruins the environment, how cyclic crisis characteristic of capitalism, ruin families, produce stress and affects the health of people.

Not a fan of Krugman, but good to see him here. Lex is doing a great job in building bridges. I would love to see more outliers within the spectrum of discourse as well.

Loved your closing monologue

I love you brutha- you are working so hard to find meaning. I’m an architect philosopher professor at CCSF SAN Fran. Peace out

best intro ever!

Krugman is correct on automation. It has actually been declining overal. And productivity growth has slowed significantly

Tom Woods does a wonderful job giving a counter opinion on his podcast “Contra Krugman”. Whether you agree or disagree with Krugman, it’s always good to hear descent, understand, and strengthen your position!

Stay positive Lex. You're a hero.

damn Lex went in on this intro

Thanks for doing this interview, helped me get a better picture of who Krugman is beyond his name used as a rubber stamp. If you're looking for more guests, Russ Roberts of EconTalk and Peter Robinson of Uncommon Knowledge would be good sources if not interviews in and of themselves. Personally, as someone with economics training, I've noticed that a lot of models assume a peaceful world filled with rational actors. As I've gotten older I've had more problems with this; rational self-interest is individually defined and the world has historically been the opposite of peaceful. The most profesitorial of my professors said that macro economics hadn't really progressed in understanding since the classics and I'm still inclined to believe him.

I loved this interview and I love to hear Dr. Krugman views on the current inflation issue we're facing.

Every few minutes Krugman almost starts talking like Jiminy Glick.

Do Greg Manikew next!!

Good on You for making a stand Lex

Fantastic monologue. Perhaps your best.

Great intro from Lex. His standing has risen in my mind.

While I still disagree with a lot of his policies, I really appreciate you talking to great minds from all parts of the spectrum. If you disagree with someone, the most important thing you can do is hear them out. Maybe you are wrong and they can change your mind. Or maybe hearing them out will give you a “steel man” to argue against as opposed to a straw man.

Thank you Paul for pointing out that economics is a science without experimentation at around 43 minutes.

Thank you Lex!

Speaking of safety nets, some of them such as the Argentinian' one is carelessly and extremely located at the other side. Here we got some of the highest taxes and the widest variaty of them. Moreover bolivian people or every foreigner can get hospitalized for free in our hospitals. Nevertheless, nothing is for free, we should pay less taxes, improve our system, and add fees for foreigners... Another case of stupid extremes

Could we get someone from 'alternative' economics, please? Michael Hudson? Richard Wolfe? Yanis Varoufakis?

Interesting conversation and wonderful pre-conversation monologue

thanks for this ... good one Lex ...

not sure i can deal with paul for an hour but im going to try because you do good work lex. hopefully you push back where appropriate. lets see how it goes...

Ah to be an economist. The only job where you can be consistently wrong for your entire career and still get a Nobel prize.

It really behooves people to be open minded, attentive and engaged. There are so many things to be learned from your fellow humans and the world around us at large. Thanks for this insightful video Lex!🎥👍📽️

Are you also going to get the ContraKrugman guys on the show? Maybe have them debate?

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 *- Nobel Prize Economist* 00:25 *- Political Discourse Challenges* 02:31 *- Cash App Sponsorship* 03:52 *- Imaginary Sweden Utopia* 05:02 *- Competition's Value* 06:11 *- Healthcare Competition Failures* 08:17 *- Justice Views Disagreement* 10:56 *- Income Inequality Measures* 13:16 *- US Safety Net Gaps* 14:47 *- Social Justice Economic Health* 16:21 *- Invisible Hand Limits* 18:23 *- Market Magic* 20:16 *- Government Health Insurance* 21:51 *- Tech Regulation Need* 23:14 *- Automation Job Impact Skeptic* 25:55 *- Productivity Measurement Explained* 27:17 *- Productivity Growth Slowdown* 27:30 *- Blaming Automation Misconception* 28:22 *- Visibility Bias Impact* 28:50 *- Economic Misunderstandings* 29:31 *- Political Influence Misery* 30:44 *- Economy Politics Interaction* 31:11 *- Political Choices Differ* 32:06 *- Welfare State Explained* 33:49 *- Universal Basic Income Analysis* 36:40 *- Robots Job Takeover Skepticism* 37:08 *- Public Discourse Fragmentation* 39:25 *- Ideological Respect Challenge* 41:26 *- Radical Idea Evaluation* 42:49 *- Zombie Ideas Persistence* 43:15 *- Economics Testability Limitation* 44:51 *- Economic Theories Disagreements* 46:08 *- Minimum Wage Impact Debate* 47:03 *- Technological Innovation Importance* 48:37 *- Infrastructure Investment Necessity* 49:05 *- Prosaic Innovation Value* 50:31 *- Infrastructure Political Challenges* 52:29 *- Future Mars Society Speculation* 55:27 *- International Trade Complexity* 56:06 *- International Trade Complexity* 56:57 *- Global Production Chain* 57:23 *- Trade Conflict Impact* 58:40 *- Trade Downsides Addressed* 59:36 *- Facing Public Fear* 01:00:15 *- Handling Hate Mail* 01:00:55 *- Intellectual Journey Advice* 01:01:33 *- Writing Without Intimidation* Made with HARPA AI

Good interview!

You are very gracious in your introduction, and I agree we have to remain open to all ideas. I came here to steel man the status quo economic thought and Keynesiansim. However I am still left feeling a strong vein of partisanism runs though all of Krugman's ideas and in that there is a good deal of projection going on with regards to his identified political opposition. He also makes mention of consensus and evidence most often without producing any which is right out of the establishment playbook.

Beautifully executed - I work for a publisher and I wish they could take interviews and opinions like this. Absolutely love Paul Krugman's view on utopia and competition.

Lex, your approach is excellent in that you let the interviewee express themself without any undue pressure and you ask probing questions. Krugman I feel doesn't do enough rigorous analysis on some of his assertions, such as those on wealth inequality and safety nets. The common notion of wealth inequality is that it is detrimental to a healthy economy especially if the imbalances are large. This perspective as applied to a largely free economy. Where I find Krugman falling short is his one-sided characterization of immense wealth as a negative. Amazon is a perfect example. The company and it's founder are extremely wealthy because they returned a value measurable in dollars that far exceeds the companies profits or wealth of Jeff Bezos. The same applies to Walmart. To wit. The Walmart family is worth somewhere around a hundred billion dollars. The savings they pass on to consumers? Trillions. Yet that calculation is never made, the focus is mostly on the "negatives". Amazon not only saves consumers money but also vast amounts of time and their incredibly innovative delivery system puts every other company to shame, the USPS, UPS and Fedex to mention a few. One negative ascribed to Amazon, the pace of work at the warehouses, and the salaries of those who work in them. Not mentioned, many of these workers have very limited skills, addiction issues and are often irregular in their work habits. Naturally, they are the most prone to complain about their own lack of success as being the fault of some "other". Yet countless people with little education do very well if they stay positive, focus on improvements and defer gratification. How many high school students who goofed around in school suddenly grew up in their mid-twenties to early thirties, got a college education, and elevated themselves? Happens all the time, from earning $12 an hour to $50-$250 an hour.

Feel like shit, just want 90s Krugman back

Great intro

Is Lex an assistant professor at MIT ?

Great podcast

Hey Lex, great interview (as usual)! Thoughts on trying to get Mark Cuban on? He always has some interesting things to say about the intersection of business and AI. He also personally reads all of his emails and his email is public knowledge

That was a great conversation. Thank you!

Lex.....Intro was sensational.....Those were no numb words.......Were sharp and penetrative, right through every thing into the cerebral cortex.......I watch your podcasts more for absorption into the stacks of my sub-conscious mind, when I watch first time......Always choose to come back for a recap later........

No one who disagrees with Krugman accepts his definition of “justice”

I would particularly love to see you discuss automation Daron Acemoglu.

As an economist myself, I am really impressed with your line of questioning, Lex! Was it a turnoff for you that Krugman thinks your friend Musk’s idea of colonizing the Mars is an unrealistic one?

Watching Lex interview someone that I detest affirms my conclusion that he is spectacular at his job. Amazing questioning.

Just wanted to say how lucky we, as the community, are that Lex Fridman is doing his podcast. I couldn't be more thankful for the ability to listen to the most advanced people alive, explaining their world-view and speculating on different topics. And all this is for 1min of listening to some ads at the beginning. Lex, you are doing such a great job! - incredible guests, thoughtful questions - thank you.

I had a negative impression of Paul Krugman. I'm now re-thinking that. I found his comments in this discussion to be reasonable and learned. I would like to hear more from him.

Bravo, nice job Lex

Congrats, very good.

You are my hero!

Great interview

Re: 52:26, the question about starting a political and economic system from scratch -- I'll offer my two desiderata: approval voting, and the land value tax.

I agree that it's obvious that robots aren't replacing us yet, but the interesting question here has always been: Why? The sole purpose of IT in general is to get companies to invest in your product or service but a company has a limit to its budget so it has to decide on whether to hire a new human or buy your product. If buying the product is good enough to compensate for not hiring people, then why are we still working so much? Or are we? I'm certainly more comfortable today than my grand father was. Some people earn money just by owning stuff. One could claim they're not working at all even. :) Questions. Where do I find the answers?

Please get Austrian economist Bob Murphy next!

There are definitively CLEAR ANSWERS for most of the important questions around economics. Unfortunately, it's a discipline plagued by obfuscation.

Can I copy the 1:30 minutes of warning and paste it on Facebook?

I’d love to see a debate between Krugman and Steve Keene.

Interesting idea that seemingly small things could have major impact. I read an economic article where the writer asserted that a failed Dollar Tree could bring down the US economy.. some truth?

Krugman said the markets would crash and never recover when Trump was elected. "If the question is when markets will recover, a first-pass answer is never". We are now at record highs - up a staggering 70% in less than one term.