In this episode, we discuss: 0:00:08 - Bill’s upbringing, background, and first job on Wall Street 0:13:52 - A missed experience and feeling of regret that shaped Bill’s thinking 0:17:34 - Thinking in terms of time, and the relationship between money, time, and health 0:29:22 - Solving for net fulfillment and allocating your time based on the seasons of life 0:38:56 - How Bill thinks about risk, opportunity costs, and the difference between fear and risk tolerance 0:46:22 - Optimizing for fulfillment, finding purpose outside of work, and more 0:55:55 - Thinking about the order of experiences you want to have based on seasons of life 1:01:26 - Bill’s unique perspective on philanthropy and a more impactful way to give money away 1:13:00 - Applying the principles in ‘Die With Zero’ to maximize fulfillment 1:25:27 - How to break out of living life on autopilot 1:29:51 - When should your net worth peak? 1:34:12 - Taking calculated risks 1:38:45 - Bill shares a lesson from his incredible birthday 1:49:24 - How Bill’s philosophy has evolved since writing Die With Zero

This conversation really had me reflect on my life. Was about to not go on a ski trip with my son who wants to get snowboard lessons because thought it would be a stretch money wise. After hearing this interview, the whole family is going for the experience.

Outstanding conversation. I’m 53 and just sent this to a friend who is turning 55 next week-the topics are so close to our recent conversations-about enjoying life while one has the chance.

From the thumbnail I thought Peter was interviewing himself after a vacation

Ar first glance I thought the thumbnail was Peter talking to himself. Maximum fulfillment! 😂

My main takeaway from this conversation is: take yourself out of autopilot mode once in a while when you are working toward delayed gratification. The idea of "optimizing" fulfillment strikes me as a bit too ambitious (there are too many unknowns that can change the equation instantly), except maybe for a small sector of the population: those who are financially stable, healthy, and have a reasonable grasp of what makes them happy. The rest of us can still learn something from this advice, of course. Good thing that many of the most meaningful experiences aren't that expensive (or are free), and therein lies a disproportionate trade-off between money and fulfillment.

Even if you’re not on autopilot, there’s no guarantee that decades later you won’t regret your choices. Values change. Current circumstances impact memories and perspectives.

I just finished Die with Zero last week, recommand it to every single person. It truly makes you look at things differently.

They didn’t address unexpected but common changes in life. There’s only so much you can plan. Example: I became abandoned and subsequently divorced by my husband of seven years at that point. It changed the whole trajectory and outlook on life and I’m still navigating those changes

This is hands down my favorite podcast and I also purchased the book immediately! Thank you

I’m reading both of their books right now and they just so happen to have this interview. Love it my 2 favorite people❤

This podcast came at the right time. Thanks for making this available to everyone Peter! 🙏

Your second life starts when you realize you only have one.

I really learned much - more depth from this podcast- re: the book. And I bought the book after a recommendation I had through a productivity course. 🤓 Excellent questions. My takeaway is, regardless of income & other variables, we all need to stop “autopiloting” and navigate our daily lives with intentionality. Sometimes it’s looking through the frame of “risk-reward” and also, “when?” Approaching 50 so this was a HUGE paradigm shift about the delicate balance of planning for retirement and taking care of my bucket list & making the most of things in my life - or should I say - optimizing and removing the “fear” of not having the money later. Thanks for this in-depth and controversial podcast. Really got me to challenge my thinking and living!!😊

What a great interview!! I am reading the book for the second time. I have been traveling around the world, since I was 18. I am 56 now, and I don't regret it at all. I have memory dividends every day. I am traveling with my 14 year old daughter now. My net worth is probably $10k, and an apartment that I will inherit from my 90 year old mother. I enjoy a simple life. Thanks again to both of you. You don't have to be a millionaire to enjoy and maximize your life.

Slacker Engineer = Smartest engineer in the room!

Great advice! I’m 64, I did 100x100 @ 1:22/100, looking forward to a bike ride with you one day Peter. Just discovered I am a LMHR, ldl 264, CCS 2. That part is a relief! Back to the bike ride ! Time to fly. Oh yeah, I think my ftp is your Z2. I can draft like a pro.

The best longevity content you’ve ever published

Redefining longevity, at the intersection of wellness and fulfillment (experiences). Great topic and kudos for exposing your following to Bill - he's a great inspiration. There's a lot more here to figure out on how Mr. Perkins mindset plays out in lesser socio-economic fractions.

The discussion presented here makes me feel so much better about some of my present purchases. Why can’t a person own 3 airplanes? Some people have 8 cars, 5 bicycles, 20 guitars, add your poison. I don’t have that many more years to appreciate these planes. The time to have them is now, tomorrow is not guaranteed!

I have a strong feeling that if this conversation helps just one person answer questions posed such as: What do you want, what do you want to experience, what do you Not want to regret at the end of your life, etc then it has served its purpose, same for the book. Everyone commenting here that what you want costs Money is purposely letting the point of this convo miss them...and might need to turn their tvs off for a few days (or weeks) and take back control of your thinking and dreaming abilities. By the way, the tv is metaphoric of all forms of government controlled media ... radio, newspapers, most social platforms.... Take back You, give yourself a chance to die with zero, whatever that means for you. I'd like to think we all feel our lives, our one life deserves this contemplation 👍 😊 ❤️

Good advice everyone should think about. At age 59, I’m glad I lived most of my life following this advice.

I'm really sorry but I have to interject here. This is very much from the perpective of people who have had success. Taking risks can ALSO go horribly wrong. I'm well qualified with a BA and a teaching qualification. I moved to the south of England to further my career in design. At 36 it all went terribly wrong. I was made redundant twice.. found it extremely difficult to get another job despite qualifications and 10 years of experience. Wound up taking minimum wage jobs, getting into debt without assistance adequate from the social system. Could not escape the trap of zero hours contracts.. 2 years later I was almost done . No savings or assets left to sell and zero energy or time left to work on meaningful job applications in between finding the next part time gig to pay the rent.. I was almost suicidal. Luckily I had family to help me out. Telling people they should not save or be care-free or " NOT TO Worry it'll be fine" .. is reckless .. Quite frankly is rather have saving in the bank and an escape strategy than take a nice f#$king skiing vacation thanks

Look buddy, as a money manager I get paid by (AUM) assets under management! Quit telling everyone to spend all their money! 😊 Good podcast, it really resonated with me and made me feel better about spending more time with my kids. 👨🏻‍🍼

I grew up with this world view ... never thought about writing a book on the subject. I have traveled the world, trying to 'touch god" through adventures and experiences. I always felt that the most valuable resource on this planet is quality time... and I have my definition for the term quality. By the time I was 30yo, I've explored 5 continents, experienced active volcano, typhoon storms (on my flash), monsoons, the Himalaya , glaciers, Gazers, whales and penguins in the natural habitat, sacred rituals of tribes ... and the list goes on. I believe a person should feel satiated from his time on earth on his death bed, and I can not fathom how working 9 to 5 since the age of 20 will get you to that state. I stared learning my current profession at the age of 33 and I earn a decent hi-tech salary now... but I am far richer in life than the average career chasing person. There is a saying - things you own might/can end up owning you. It happens all the time. Not for me. My world view has few more issues than just wasting the money from a certain age. We define things by contradictions, thus, a certain level of 'ups' and 'downs' are vital to appreciate life. I might write a book about that.

So glad you both did this podcast. Stumbled upon Bill Perkins when he appeared on a Jubilee debate. Excellent conversation and message!

Good podcast. I even bought the audible version of the book. As a 34 year insurance agent I would love to have you in the room with my clients. So many people chew through their self insured pile, which looked huge to them, in quick fashion when the long term care need comes up, or the premature death.

Great advice for wealthy elitists, not for people with 3 jobs, living paycheck to paycheck, and without a safety net, health, or savings.

Me watching this at 5 am cuz I can’t sleep 🤦‍♀️ wrong podcast to be watching tonight

“The time had passed me by”!!!!!

My favourite podcast so far. I've watched about 5 or 6.

Great perspective for a lot of us. I can't help but wonder though how someone stuck living paycheck to paycheck might interpret this or what actions they might pursue that don't involve increasing their deficient resource (money); a necessary step for them to get to fulfillment, which can be quite costly (time, misery, opportunity cost).

So basically it is a sophisticated, organized, and intricate discussion regarding the YOLO lifestyle 😎🤙

Excellent book. Read it after watching this episode! Highly recommend!

If he hadn't lived in autopilot, he would have not get to where is at. So autopilot, is the foundation to success!

1:01:26 - Bill’s unique perspective on philanthropy and a more impactful way to give money away

tremendous convo. bill is one of my favorite people. loved the book too.

Nice conversation. Bill, you present maximising one's fulfilment as a static optimisation problem at a certain point of time. However in reality it is a dynamic optimisation problem. I'll explain: At a certain point of time you may have a certain view (preferences) of what will fulfil you the most over time (net fulfilment). And you plan for this, thinking that you will optimise your fulfilment over time, however for example 10 years later your preferences on maximising fulfilment over time may have changed dramatically. In other words you may have thought you have initially optimise your fulfilment over time (based on your initially set of preferences) and made decisions based on this, however in retro perspective (e.g. after 10 years) you may have made the wrong decisions in maximising your fulfilment, not knowing that after 10 years your preferences over time have significantly changed. That makes maximising one's fulfilment a very complex dynamic optimisation problem and not a relative simple static optimisation problem, as you suggest (mathematically expressed).....

I’m 19 trying to figure out what to do with my life.Thank you for this wisdom

health insurance doesn’t cover everything and is very expensive. health risks are increasing and at a younger age. one small incident can ruin you

I've read the book and appreciate the ideas it presents but the reality in America is that the healthcare system bankrupts good people. Healthy or unhealthy, medical bills do not discriminate. Living a fulfilling life without regard for saving seems like an amazing idea but not sure it aligns with the world most of us live in today.

Another Billionaire's 2-hour advice on "optimizing" one's life (now it's about investing in experiences/future memories ie learning to pilot a fighter jet just to make your dear ones smile and smiling at this yourself when you're about 97, paralysed and suicidal). Exactly what we all needed. lol

Great message!

My worlds collide type of episode. Been following Bill from the poker circles for years and always find him and his ideas interesting

One of the best episodes I’ve listened to in a long time. Subscribed!

In our 20s and early 30s we sure spent, now that we r 40 we wish we invested that money because we want to retire before 60. The value of investing that money in 20s would allow us to get off the master wheel, and live life on own terms.

Regarded the documentary you were in-Limitless-it was great! I would love to see something similar with someone famous in poor shape to see the disadvantages but also the how they overcome the challenges. It would be an interesting juxtaposition.

Enjoyed it much. Thanks from HK!

This is painful to listen to. I'm in the top 3% of earners in my shithold country and a 30k dollar trip is so far out of the real of possibility it's laughable. It's really easy to think this way once you've madena fortune, but when you're doing the math and see it's mathematically impossible you'll ever be able to afford your own home without working your ass off you don't exactly have the luxury.

I would love to spend money on trips more etc but it's scary with how much uncertainty there is with the world, economy future for kids and me and my wife. Once you hit a certain wealth it doesn't matter but until then it makes perfect sense to be "smart" with your spending

Great interview/story - never heard of your show but just subscribed. Some of these other comments on here, as always, are from the cheap seats.

Great message, very true. Seems like a great guy.

Perkins is one of those guys who was right time, right place, got super lucky and now thinks he is wayyyyyy smarter than he actually is.

Really disappointed in this podcast. Bill’s book is essentially “Optimizing Hedonism”. So many things he said were actually true, good pursuits….but what really made him fulfilled--pleasured--was trips and vacations….he mentioned it many times. He gave a cursory nod to philanthropy or charitable giving, but those were throwaway lines. What was missing was a real discussion of real virtue that doesn’t leave you fulfilled. The wife that cares for her Alzheimer’s stricken husband for years on end--that’s virtuous, but it’s not fulfilling. Sacrificing for your kids because it’s good for the kids and bad for you….that’s virtuous and isn’t immediately fulfilling and had the possibility to never be fulfilling. Sometimes you must do your duty as a husband, father, mother, wife, son or daughter with things that are sucky and unfulfilling, and sometimes it’s to people that are ungrateful--yet it is still virtuous and honorable.

I had to stop listening because the dude says “right” after every 5th word, and I couldn’t unhear it. Brutal.

Enjoy your content generally Peter, but this one was a cracker!!

How would one's retirement strategy change if pessimistic about inflation? Since not many want to be a burden to their kids when they become too old to take care of themselves, any recommended long-term-care annuities products that Bill would recommend? And since the biggest asset for most people will be the house they live in, any thoughts on reverse-mortgages vs borrowing/equity-line? I wonder if there is any higher aspiration that experiences? For example, traveling/socializing may make you happier while in the moment, but does it lead to a fulfilling life?

This is a two hour explanation of Matthew 13:44. Regardless of your religious persuasion, are you willing to, with joy, sell all you own for access to a treasure that is not for sale? Money always represents something else. Making sure you know what that is, is critical, otherwise you fall in love with money and then only evil lies before you. Don't obsess with possessions (money included) or the field (time/health). It is this fulfillment, this obscure thing that is hidden in life, in the allocation of time, that is a treasure. What is the treasure that out paces the value of all those things? Matthew 13:44 The Parable of the Hidden Treasure [44] “The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and covered up. Then in his joy he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field. (ESV)

So I figured out that I have 51 one-week holidays left to use before I retire. Now I gotta figure out what I'm gonna fill them with and I gotta get them in the right order

Great interview and thank you, I would likeb to know what his reading list is made up of

The book is an interesting read (still in the middle of it), but I don't think it'll convince those who actually need convincing.Most people don't wanna believe they will die someday no matter how old they are and no matter what their logical brain tells them let alone use an app or poster reminding them of their death one day, everyday. Interesting listening and watching the video here because I heard 90% of the interview first on the drive podcast, but looking at the video I am struck by the look of fear/alarm in Perkin's eyes, they're always wide open as if he just saw a ghost! One book I'd like to recommend not mentioned by Attia (probably because of the immediacy of time theme) for a more rounded view of money is "The Psychology of Money".

Love this podcast!

Peter i love you i can’t wait for your book, honestly, i can’t wait to learn from this hedge fund manager what’s really important in life, i always thought that hedgefund managers should have the final say on what really matters in life

Great Channel and great hosts, you brought up how many americans can produce $1,000 for emergency and according to CNBC it's only 44% who can (or 56% who can't.)

Great episode!

Fantastic interview!

How would he know the charity would have benefitted more with a smaller larger sum? The money is security in case you need it and the excess go to a charity thoughtfully.

So, did Peter go on a safari vacation with his family yet? =)

Everyone dies with zero by default, no need to concern yourself with it.

I appreciate this episode for the diversity which brings to the channel, but please stick to health and exercise topics.

Amazing video. Just starting to tune into your channel, but I've heard of you for awhile! I don't remember where exactly, maybe Dr Rhonda Patrick or Joe Rogan.

Rich people

❤ Great Podcast ❤

The audio is terrible. It sounds like Bill is whispering.

Does anyone no what the other two books are?

there is no maximum, there is only minimum

...what's the brand on that polo? Looks sharp. lol

Balance

This interview was very depressing to me.

Is setting up a plan to leave your children financially comfortable part of your plan.

Videos en español

Sad, Peter seems like he's aging quicker lately. I have been following him for many, many years.... Sad . Bryan Johnson

Centurion Olympics... Climb Mount Kilimanjaro

very limited data sorry bill

Are we sheep?

55;35

👏

Sound tract no good! I gave up watching it.

OK, I got sick of listening to it, there's one word that can summarize this entire conversation: death.

If you can keep your money through the storm that is coming then I will think you are something but everything in the last 18 years has been a giant government handout. Now we have to pay the price with massive debt… look up triffens dilemma….20230 it’s all over

The idea is good - out of auto - pilot, generosity, timing...a bit too much talk about "when to give away your millions, and why earlier than later" "optimizing your billion" etc. I bet most of people watching this episode will never have an opportunity of such luxury. Do we make our own choices to become rich one way or another? Yes and no - money wise at least. I think it would be better to concentrate more on living life in full besides one's financial status...or the title is misleading. Maybe "Optimizing your net worth for it's maximum returns thru your lifespan" would be more accurate?.. and don't get me wrong, I trade myself and the concept/ mindset of life hours spent on a t shirt sounds familiar, indeed. I remember where I came from. Do you?

lol, Warren can't wake board.

Not smart Wall Street? Money driven? Finds out money didn’t buy happiness? This story is as old as dirt and boring AF.

$$$$$ LOST . ITS ALL FREE. You just can't see it . YET ! Bryan Johnson.... Ai...

Please give me some money…… lol

I think I deserve a refund for the time spent listening to this guest, right?😂

Always a terminal disappointment to hear a man’s list of most meaningful experiences involves his genitals. And it’s never about making and growing amazing human beings, it’s about his orgasm.

All this did was fill me with rage. I've had the view of maximum fulfillment for my while life. TROUBLE IS I didn't have the money to hire the professional to solve the ptsd that was preventing me from women/career. I'm fucking 40 & I have jack shit. I took 7 years of my life to solve the ptsd myself, which I had 16-32. Once I removed that I immediately wanted to hang with my friends, but I was poor so I dashed for money at a tech bootcamp that was full of shit. 3 years & over 600 apps later I quit trying to start a career. I held off on dating until I had money because kids cost money. Now I've accepted I'm never having kids, never getting medical attention, never traveling, only dating for sex if at all because I find that useless, & never funneling money into my 24 year joy of music. I'm full of educational debt & can't afford to get to a psychologist to even attempt to deal with why I'm uncomfortable speaking positively about myself which ruined networking into my abandoned career. I didn't want to regret life either but guess what, MONEY. Enjoying life costs fucking MONEY. MONEY is required. I'm tired of taking thousands of hours to cultivate skills & solve problems with a big time horizon because it never amounts to any money. MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY.