do you have a source to verify this?

@@ThePlantoparadise This is the english manual: www.nintendo.co.jp/clvs/manuals/common/pdf/CLV-P-SAAHE.pdf This is the japanese one: www.nintendo.co.jp/clvs/manuals/ja/pdf/CLV-P-VAAHJ.pdf Go to page 38 and try using Google Translate. Obviously the translation is not perfect, but you can still see that there are differences! Anyway, I became aware of this watching another Metroid video about a different topic from a guy who knows japanese.

Ok, this is actually amazing

So wait, Is Phantoon being Mother Brain a fact now? I'm a little confused.

@@jonahboris6681 I just noticed that also the Phatoon page on Wikitroid points out the differences between the two manuals. I'd like to believe that Phantoon is not only the manifestation of Mother Brain's consciousness, but more generally the manifestation of a being with strong psychic/telepathic abilities, like MB in Other M (you can fight against Phantoon after you beat the game)

Kraid doesn't seem to be a Zebesian native. Ridley may or may not belong to Zebes, it was stated as his home planet in the NES Metroid instruction manual but never has been confirmed/denied since. Phantoom is almost certainly not of Zebesian origin. Draygon is the exception, seeming to be an evir (assuming evirs are Zebes natives, this would mean Draygon is likely by proxy).

@@alexman2598 Ok? Not entirely sure what that is supposed to add to or subtract from my point. But sure.

@@nathanlasart226 Absolutely nothing.

Knowing motherbrain, she probably sees everything as a guard dog to her cause she's that superior

Ridley and Kraid apparently have some form of friendship. So I don't think that's the case.

Also, Metroid Other M doesn't say anything about Phantoon from Other M being different from the one in Super Metroid.

That's probably the most logical explanation tbh

The best I can figure is that you are correct, and its the same phantoom/Motherbrain from Zero Mission, and the Super MotherBrain never had its Phantoom counterpart because of its life energy/mental energy eaten by the Super Metroid. So because of Dread Spoilers: If my theory is correct and Samus didn't truly kill Phantoom yet, she now can thanks to the Metroid DNA allowing her to absorb energy.

Pretty late but it doesn't quite seem like Phantoon died in Other M, either. I really love his design, so I hope he comes back again one day.

That actually would be a cool explanation on why phantoon appears in Other M. The vengeful malice of MB still lingers and formed phantoon.

At the end of Other M, MB releases a huge wave of energy before she was killed. That energy awakens the Desbrachians. Probably, that last wave is Mother Brain's transfer to Phantoon's form.

Isn't MB still alive at the end and in Samus' Ship during the credits? They don't really give a conclusive ending to her character yet. But if you are correct, then Phantoom left MB and so that is why she isn't a threat anymore and Phantoom is still on the BottleShip?

Both can be true; in fact, the Super Metroid Manual in Japanese confirms this theory by outright saying Phantoon is the original Mother Brain, but that doesn't mean it didn't exist before Mother Brain, and then possessed it to make it the Mother Brain we all know. So, the original Mother Brain has been coming back and haunting Samus for a long time now.

@@GBDupree As much as I dislike Other M, I honestly prefer its concept for Phantoon. As it makes a lot more sense as to why it's in the wrecked ship. Other M's concept art explains what I said above about its being. But it'd also already been inside the wrecked ship before coming to Zebes, travelling with the Chozo for unknown reasons. Idk why but I find the concept really cool. Of course, there's always the idea that if the Super Metroid Manual by itself is to be believed, but we still want to keep track of the new information learned since... It could be that Phantoon's conscious was taken over by Mother Brain's malevolence, and it's not just her consciousness alone. This would also explain why the abilities are completely different.

@@blueeyeswhitevegeta I think its both of those things. OM saying its a being from another dimension and Super saying its the ghost of Mother Brain aren't exclusive details really. As I think of it: Phantoon isn't Mother Brain, Mother Brain is Phantoon. Phantoon came first (whether on the ship or not, that could still be canon) and then when the Pirates stole the Chozo tech (the same ones seen in Dread, which are Brains, but not Mother Brains) and altered it, it allowed for Phantoon to possess it and turn it into the Mother Brain we all know. Phantoon is the reason Mother Brain is more than just a computer. Perhaps Phantoon is the reason for Mother Brain's psychic abilities, or those abilities are the conduit that allowed Phantoon to possess it or show up separately on the ship in Super. It's because of this theory that I like to think that Samus has still been fighting the original Mother Brain this whole time, she simply hasn't killed it fully yet as it's a being from another dimension (like a Lovecraftian monster). She has killed the physical conduits, but not the original source. OR, maybe the Super Metroid, being able to eat Life Energy as well as mental energy, actually did truly kill her entirely. Though I think it'd make more sense if Phantoon was sucked out of Mother Brain and then when Samus absorbed the Metroid's energy, Phantoon hitched a ride, and that's how it ended up on the Bottle ship. Samus inadvertently gave Phantoon a way off the planet, assuming Phantoon was trapped there for some ghostly reason (maybe the ship was the nexus point between its dimension and ours?). It'd be awesome if a future game had Samus' Metroid sucking powers lead to her actually being able to kill ghostly beings from another dimension. Those are just some thoughts, though it could go a bunch of ways. It's cool that the details are just enough to piece it together but not have a full picture just yet, so there are tons of ways this could go in the story. Assuming they want to explore it further.

She'll get a poketroid soon, but first I wanna cover a few more creatures first

@@MetroidTrainer ah yes the metroid trainer SHOWS MANY METROID DEATHS AND HE PLAYED THOSE GAMES AND KILLED THOUSANDS OF METROIDS

Discord expired.. send again?

The ultimate zeltroid boss

Fitting for a gengar to know about ghosts

Nice.

the part I dont get is, why does the pirate ship have the same barrel shaped droids as the wrecked ship? why is it in the exact same spot, on the map as the wrecked ship? where is the wrecked ship in ZM?

That would be a cool idea. A mish-mash of all the angry souls that died could open up some cool concepts. Like all the corrupted souls in gfs Valhalla or gfs tyr

Phantoon is mother brain ghost That mix of angry souls is the covern, a creature that randomly appears in wrecked ship until you defeat phantoon.

It is. He streamed the other day.

😂 I really gotta work on my upload schedule

I think the Japanese version of super metroid basically says that in the manual

Other M isn't part of the prime series, though it does have some gameplay stuff from it (like how it does Super Missiles), but its mostly a 3rd person platformer with some 1st person stuff. It says in the Japanese version of the Super Metroid manual that Phantoom is the ghost of Mother Brain, but that means it could still be a projection like you said, just its the first Mother Brain, not the Super one.

@@GBDupree 'Ghost' is a bit of a stretch for me, since I just think of the super version as the same Mother Brain. I figure if she's back in Super, she never really died, just lost her physical body at the time, but memory was of course backed up somewhere. So yeah, I feel Phantoon is just a projection, but how Mother Brain learned to do that inside of a wrecked ship is yet to be explained. I guess if the manual says it's a ghost though, I have no choice.

@@ADM1500 I think ghost might not be the best term for it (I don't know the exact translation, it could be psychic projection, or ghost in the same vein as the Chozo Ghosts in Prime, which were more so Chozo stuck between dimensions). As I see it: Phantoon isn't Mother Brain, Mother Brain is Phantoon given physical form, or at least a conduit into our dimension. It's also not clear (at least from my memory) if Super's Mother Brain is the same one rebuilt or a second one. So perhaps Phantoon possessed Mother Brain's body, becoming the one we all know (it was basically a normal computer beforehand), but the body was destroyed and then was rebuilt and Phantoon inhabited it again for Super. And seeing as its a multidimensional creature, perhaps it could project itself on the crashed ship to fight Samus, was defeated but not killed, and then was absorbed by the Metroid. But maybe it being absorbed didn't kill it but it was transferred into Samus giving it the chance to be freed from Zebes, which is how it got on the Bottle Ship. Maybe the Crashed Ship is the nexus point of it entering our universe, so it was tethered there and that's why it fought Samus to protect its home. In any case, there is enough loose ends about this subject that you could infer lots of things like this, or other things, so don't feel too bad if you aren't fully on board yet. Its like how I feel about the Manga claiming the Chozo made Mother Brain on Zebes. I always preferred the idea that the Pirates built her. So I thought it would be better to combine the 2 ideas, that the Chozo built the technology and the pirates stole it to make the real Mother Brain. Even though the Manga isn't perfectly canon Dread still shows the Chozo with Brain computers, but not Mother Brains exactly, so my theory still could work.

No actually, it is a Chozo ship, it's been confirmed a few times now. And it's a different one from the Pirate ship in Zero Mission, it was likely the explosion of the Pirate ship that unearthed the Chozo one which had been buried for many years. Hope that clarifies it!

That would explain a lot, but it would make less since for Fusion, because both Phantoon and Mother Brain are gone by that point in the series.

I think they are just a bunch of greedy, corrupt jerks. Like the real government.

@@jonahboris6681 We don’t know that Phantoon is gone by the time of Fusion.

@@jonahboris6681 i wouldn't be surprised if phantoon was behind it somehow in other m, but I think the idea that the GF was just greedy is simpler

Actually, it's not a theory technically. The Super Metroid Manual omits some text that's in the original Japanese version that confirms Phantoon is the ghost of the original Mother Brain. However, we don't know who the Other M Phantoon is. So it could be the return of the original Phantoon (just beefier looking because the developers wanted it to be, much like Ridley's different design to the rest of the series), Super Mother Brain's ghost, or even MB's ghost. Personally I think the original wasn't killed so much as weakened enough to not be able to stay physical so it went back to its dimension, and reappeared in Other M (which wasn't long after Super Metroid). whereas the Super Mother Brain was eaten by the Super Metroid so it's ghost was eaten as well, so no Super Phantoon. As for MB, well I don't really know what happened to her, I remember her living in Other M and can be seen in Samus' ship at the end? If I'm remembering that correctly, then she is still alive and maybe is still inhabited by her own Phantoon, or wasn't a real Mother Brain and was only under the control of Phantoon, and so is safe and no longer a threat. Basically just a robot now. I should also mention that the Japanese version of Other M mentions some more things about the Metroids that could clarify the situation. The Metroids eat life energy, but for that reason they also eat the mind and emotions of their prey (the reason I think the Super Metroid truly killed Super Mother Brain). In Other M the Metroids they cloned were eventually radiating the emotional mental energy of their victims, this is what caused the MB to start acting emotional, and might even have allowed her to be taken over by Phantoon. Its explained that is also why Samus is more emotional in Other M, as she absorbed the Super Metroid's energy and by extension its prey's energy.

@@GBDupree wow, fascinating! I'm reading this having just finished the final boss for dread too, still processing everything they threw at us there Thanks for all of that though, I love metroid lore, I find it similar to dark souls (though not to the same extent of course) in that there is a lot of environmental story-telling, and slow build ups to fighting the cause of the demise of whatever area you just explored.

@@Godlysound Yeah, in the Manga it says that the Chozo made Mother Brain, but I never liked that personally, and the Manga isn't entirely canon, so its possible that isn't the case. But Dread seems to imply that is true with its Mother Brain like entities, but none of them seem to be trying to take over the universe, or be anything more than computers. So I think that they really are just advanced computers, and the Space Pirates captured the technology and then changed it enough that Phantoon was able to inhabit it and become the Mother Brain we all know. Even further than that, and this is purely speculation with little evidence admittedly, I think Ridley has mental abilities and that the Pirates used him as a base to reprogram the Chozo tech to be able to have psychic abilities too, which is why Phantoon could inhabit it. My reasoning for Ridley having Psychic abilities comes from Other M's portrayal of baby Ridley, how it could screech and cause the wildlife of the ship to do its bidding, or at least enrage it. I don't expect him to have the same extent of powers Mother Brain had, like he can't just read minds and transmit thoughts throughout the planet, but enough to instill basic emotions or thoughts into a single individual near him. Perhaps that is how he is able to induce PTSD into Samus, by giving her the emotions, or even forcing the memory into her of when he killed her parents. Ridley is shown to be hyper intelligent as well. So that's mostly where I came up with the idea, but there isn't a source that backs it up otherwise (at least none I've seen) but it makes sense and isn't deconfirmed in any way.

It actually is true, it's in the Super Metroid manual, but only the Japanese one. Its strangely omitted in the English manual, despite the rest of the text for her being accurately translated. Her appearance in Other M was probably meant to explain the story some more, but because the English-speaking audience didn't know about this until more recently, the ending didn't make sense to us. It doesn't help that most of Other M was poorly translated (nothing new for the series though, sadly). In fact, Samus being more emotional in Other M is a plot point that is explained, and despite that she still acts more in-character than the English version. The reason is the Metroids eat life energy, and so that means they basically eat the mind and emotions as well (I guess they are eating the souls essentially? Or at least they eat the chemicals that make up the mind and emotions? They do tend to go for the head either way). So, when Samus absorbed the Super Metroid's energy, she also gained the mental energy of it and its prey as well. That's also the reason for the MB android "gaining" sentience and emotions, the Metroids were radiating this energy and the MB was affected. It's also likely that Phantoon was then able to control her actions at that point. My guess is that after Other M, MB became nothing more than a highly advanced robot again with no Phantoon controlling her.

The most recent thint was that artists from god of war and call of duty joined retro so that may be the only thing to cover.

@@youraveragejoe2 yeah, the development team for Prime 4 looks stacked.

@@NKript They're good to go.

@@youraveragejoe2 imma wait until either the whole team is complete to probably a make one video talking about everyone we know, or until something big drops to speculate the story. Cause with nothing known about the story, I'll just be wildly guessing

@@MetroidTrainer alright

WILLSON!

Actually that would make sense, but then the next question would be how would the GF even get a sample of phantoon's ectoplasm if the planet blew up?

@@MetroidTrainer There might have been some on Samus's armour.

Ridley apparently can revive himself, and he was brought back in the Prime games via cybernetic augmentation of his corpse. Who knows what the deal with Kraid is, though, since his lore is virtually nonexistent.

Not really, as far as I know the Pirates didn't have cloning technology and the Federation probably only figured it out after the Pirates were defeated. I could be wrong though. But otherwise, all the enemies that return in later games are explained. Super's Mother Brain is just a second one they built, Ridley didn't truly die until Super, so he wasn't cloned until Other M. Kraid may just be a species, since there are mini Kraids that might just be baby ones, just like every other enemy. So ZM Kraid and Super Kraid are separate characters.

Imma make one on her, but I have a few more creatures I wanna cover first

It actually is canon; the Japanese Super Metroid manual says it. For some reason it was omitted in the English version. That's likely the reason it returns in Other M, to add a twist to the story or explain something, but it was lost in translation. A LOT was mistranslated in Other M, I suggest watching "the Other M that never was" to see how different it is!

OK it was very obvious that i got this right but to be honest before reading the title of the video i never thought about this.

I love that u got it on the dot😂

This is confirmed in the Japanese version of the Super Metroid Manual. For some reason the English version is a pretty accurate translation except it omits this for some reason. There actually are a lot of things that weren't translated correctly throughout the series, and Other M really suffers for it. Though it doesn't say anywhere that Samus actually killed Phantoon both times, so it could just be the same one (the design differences mean nothing since Other M changes a lot of designs, just look at Ridley for example). Anyways, for a video discussing the mistranslations of Other M, look up the video "the Other M that never was" to see how much of the story we got wrong in the English version and why.

@@GBDupree Oh there are many other things too like that the Koopalings are the children of Bowser and even the retcon from Super Mario Sunshine doesn't really deny it because it is only said that Bowser Jr is blood related and the others not. Because of this there exist now a theory that Bowser adopted the Koopalings so that the is they're father but not related by blood. Or in Zelda there are hints of multiple timeliness in the manuals of the early games long before Skyward Sword and with it the official Timeline got released. And to be honest all seemingly errors in the official Timeline could be fixed easily by just scrapping the downfall Timeline and putting those games in a new one that must have happened in Skyward Sword because Link has beaten Demise 2 times once in his own Time by crushing him with an island and a second Time in the past by sealing him in the Master Sword.

@@Genya2008 I always interpreted the name Koopa Kids as a stage name or performance group name, rather than Bowser's kids. This seems to also be the intended use considering their more performance style designs and Bowser's clown car, sorta like how 3D World was more circus designed. So it always seemed strange to me when people thought it was a retcon that they weren't blood related, since I never actually considered that! Strange how the human mind works I suppose. But anyway, yeah there have been a few mistranslations throughout Nintendo's history, not all of them bad. Like Princess Peach instead of Toadstool (which eventually became the default worldwide) or the Varia Suit in Metroid (it's just the Barrier Suit in Japan, so they don't really see it as legendary and unique like we do. Think like how it is in ZM, the varia is just a recolor, but the "Legendary suit" is the redesign, meanwhile the prime games seem to call the suit "Varia" to denote its legendary status). I'd wager that Metroid's mistranslation woes hurt it far more than the other series, even Zelda. Zelda at least has some more fantastical elements like multiple timelines, and almost each game is a different set of Links and Zeldas. But Metroid is the only long running series with a static main character that is also story focused. Mario can have any story with any retcons, because it's free to do so. Zelda is story focused, but can use different casts to avoid issues, so they are more free. Other series that might he similar aren't as long running so these issues haven't cropped up yet (unless Splatoon or Xenoblade already do?). Plus the mistranslations seem to be more numerous and detrimental, mostly for the same reasons, as a name translation could have major importance to the story over multiple games for instance. Other M was hit with not just translation issues by accident, but also purposeful ones to not conflict with prior mistranslations. No other series has a game that is so reviled thanks to its translation woes that I can think of, moreso because it's not as well known to be the cause. So hopefully this stuff gets cleared up for those who aren't aware and the series can go forward stronger. Edit: I should also mention the video "the Other M that never was" that helps explain a lot of the translation issues for that game, as well as some bonus ones from prior Metroids. It's where I've gotten a lot of info from.

I like to think it was the opposite, there was a Phantoon that possessed the Mother Brain that the Pirates had and then it became a real Mother Brain and not just a computer like the Chozo had. Killing Mother Brain only released it from its shell essentially.

very carefully? well it came back for super metroid....

what?

Everytime he returned was explained. As meta ridley he got made into a cyborg, mecha ridley is just a Robot he built, as proteus ridley he regenerated most of his body, and continued in super metroid, and in other M he's a clone. Than an X parasite absorbs the DNA of frozen Ridley and copies him

@@tomriddler1926 and in prime 3 the phazon healed him and made his body stronger.

I dont think it'll work for ridley cause all of his returns are explained with him being revitalized/ healing (atleast until other m)

:D

Good thing that its actually canon then! The Japanese version of the Super Metroid Manual says this very thing! But the English version omits it for some reason. The appearance of Phantoon in Other M was likely also meant to play off this info but was lost in translation. A LOT of things were mistranslated and changed in Other M, so watch the video "the Other M that never was" to see more about this!

Phantoon being some sort of an invader from a different world would be a cool origin for Phantoon

The Japanese version of the Super Metroid manual clarifies that Phantoon IS the Mother Brain's ghost. BUT you could be correct that its from another dimension, basically Phantoon came first, and then when Mother Brain was created it gave this creature a chance to inhabit it and gain control. I like to think of it like the space pirates cobbled together several different technologies they stole, like some Chozo tech, and then built something that was like an intelligent computer with mind control powers (or Phantoon is the one that gave it mind control powers), and then Phantoon took over and made this computer the Mother Brain we know. So, the Space Pirates sort of stumbled into the thing that made them a serious threat to the galaxy.

So many people would love that it if that was true 🤣

Technically it is, but not in the English version, as it was horribly mistranslated. The Japanese version explains that Samus IS acting out of character, and then explains why, and she overcomes it in the end. The Metroids when they eat the life energy of something also eat the mental/emotional energy of it too. So, when Samus absorbed the energy of the Super Metroid was also filled with the mental/emotional energy of ALL of its victims (including Super Mother Brain I guess?) so she was unknowingly becoming emotionally unstable because of this. All she can do is simply deal with the emotions until they dissipate, I think. This is also the explanation behind MB becoming emotional and going crazy, as she had been spending time with the Metroids who were radiating this mental energy of its victims. So, the MB robot didn't truly become sentient if I understand correctly? The appearance of Phantoon seems to imply it was it that was causing all the problems, likely psychically controlling MB now that she had enough mental radiation for it to control her. Watch the video "the Other M that Never Was" to see someone explain the mistranslations and changes to the story!

@@GBDupree hmm, I wasn't aware of the translation issues. That's a much more interesting plot

@@08slicknick Yeah, or at the very least a plot worth telling, as the current English version feels very unnecessary. But the plot in Japanese has a lot of new lore that adds a lot for fans, or potential in the future of the series. It may not entirely redeem the game, but it does make it less offensive. I highly recommend that video if you haven't already watched it. Like the lore for Mother Brain certainly feels more expansive now thanks to knowing some more from that video, even though that's just a small part of it.

That's because Phantoon is the Mother Brain from Metroid 1, and Super's Mother Brain is a second Mother Brain. Hope that clears it up, also this is mentioned in the Japanese Super Metroid manual, so its confirmed!

The way I saw it, phantoon didn't die, just passed on the afterlife

It also explains how the wrecked ship powers on after you kill phantoon, as the spirits are freed from the culmination which is phantoon

In super Metroid the mother brain seen is a different mother brain.

It's actually the spirit of the FIRST Mother Brain, not the second one that is the final boss. This is confirmed in the Japanese version of the Manual. The series has a long history of translation changes and mistakes, and Other M suffers a lot from them. So, check out "the Other M that never was" for more info on that! Its where I found out about the Japanese Super Metroid Manual explaining Phantoon.

💔

@@Anu_Sol 💕

Pretty much

I have a cool theory involving B.O.X, so I might make that a video soon

@@MetroidTrainercool

Or it was Phantoon that possessed MB in the first place. We don't know if Samus truly killed Phantoon each time, or just sent it back to its dimension.

🤣

It actully says phantoon is mother brains manifestation of thought in the Japanese manual. Think of phantoon as the phantom Ganon of metroid

It was the Other M concept gallery art of phantoon that had that info (and the smash bros trophy description)

@@MetroidTrainer ah my bad

Oooof

The fact that's a bit messed up makes it cool to me.

Darren Marshall read the Japanese SM manual

sorry my bad, its my writing becasue I used the voice chat

​@@powerbolt7508 I forgot about that. I'll read that soon.

It's the title theme from Samus Returns. It plays halfway in the track

@@MetroidTrainer thank you

Actually, he's there for story reasons, basically saying he was behind it all. As the story of Other M is completely mistranslated, this is lost in the English version. The Japanese version of Super Metroid's manual also confirms It is the ghost of the first Mother Brain. Check out the video "the Other M that never was" to see just how bad the translation is. For instance, did you know that Samus is canonically acting out of character in Other M, and there is an explanation for it? And that explanation is also the reason the MB robot goes insane too? Some crazy stuff. Like even the relationship with Adam is treated differently. The English version has her so in love with him that she follows everything he says, while the Japanese version has her so untrusting of him that she believes he might be behind the whole mess. The difference of their relationship apparently isn't even a mistranslation, but the translator completely changing it for some reason.

The japanese manual of Super Metroid clarifies Phantoom's role. He is in fact a manifestation of Mother Brain's consciousness

The wrecked ship is the space pirate ship that Ridley use to land in Zero Mission

The best evidence is that its straight up said to be true in the Super Metroid manual. The catch is that its only in the Japanese version but was omitted in the English release.

*shooked*