The Saga of the Swinging Spies | True Life Spy Stories

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4 ай бұрын

Listen to my spy stories on the Heroes & Traitors with Philip Thompson podcast!
🎙️podcasters.spotify.com/pod/sh...
Ways to support my channel:
Buy Me a Coffee: ☕ bmc.link/philipthompson
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Karel and Hana Koecher arrived on American shores in December 1965. The Czechoslovakian nationals had fled to America to start a new life. As Soviet emigres, they set out to live the American dream. For Karel, this was by climbing the ranks of academia. For Hana, it was a lucrative career in the diamond trade. Both had become naturalised US citizens.
But all this was a smokescreen. Karel was in fact a sleeper agent deployed by Czechoslovakian intelligence to spy on the United States. He achieved what no other before him had managed - to infiltrate the CIA as an illegal Soviet spy.
This is the story of Karel and Hana Koecher, the last of the Cold War super spies.
Primary sources (afiiliate links):
📕 The Liar: How a Double Agent in the CIA Became the Cold War's Last Honest Man, Benjamin Cunningham - amzn.to/48lSntR
📕 Spy VS. Spy, Ronald Kessler - amzn.to/42FEYvH
Further reading/viewing:
🌐 www.theguardian.com/world/201...
🌐 Betrayed! A Stranger in a Strange Land, tubitv.com/tv-shows/285639/s0...
#philipthompson #truelifespystories #karelkoecher

Пікірлер: 336

@cattymajiv 3 ай бұрын

I agree the narration is excellent in 99.% of the video, but people need to take note that the dates stated need to be listened to very carefully. The events that occured in the 1930s are stated correctly, but the pronunciation makes it easy to mistake them for being said as 1953, 1954, 1955, etc. People have complained below that the narrator has the dates wrong. He doesn't. It's just hard to hear whether he is saying 1933 or 1953, and 1939 or 1959, etc. But now that you know to listen more carefully, you can understand it correctly,because it's not really possible to rerecord an entire video just to fix a couple of words.

@PhilipThompson 3 ай бұрын

Thank you! I was so confused when I started seeing comments about me referencing incorrect dates. I went back over the video a dozen times trying to spot my mistake, but knowing that I would never have mixed up such basic dates from the WW2 era. Seems my accent strikes again!

@davidhull1481 3 ай бұрын

I had the same reaction. I knew, due to the photos, that it couldn’t be the 1950s, and it clicked that it was the heavy accent of the narrator.

@dominaevillae28 2 ай бұрын

I understood everything said🤔

@davidhull1481 2 ай бұрын

@@dominaevillae28 Whaddaya want, a medal?

@T0mmyTune Ай бұрын

@@PhilipThompson What is your Mother tongue? I ask because I heard some words you spoke and I had never heard a British accent pronounce them in such a way. Strange story well presented. Continue your good work!

@robinwells8879 2 ай бұрын

British Foreign Office on the ball as ever. Lets employ this person without any checks to see if she is a world famous spy’s wife. 😂

@DaveSCameron 14 күн бұрын

Superb upload, cheers. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿⚽️

@robinwells8879 14 күн бұрын

@@DaveSCameron thank you your lordship!😉

@zaper2904 4 ай бұрын

It's kind of funny how in these stories double agents are only ever really caught through the reports of other double agents.

@russelldavidovsky3028 Ай бұрын

According to one of the best American counterintelligence officer, most of spy caught including moles are done by spying or double agents in adversary's intelligence. I believe intelligence is much more throughput than standard (passive) counterintelligence.

@dhmacher 4 ай бұрын

Love your work! Your narration is 100x better than the AI, for what it’s worth.

@PhilipThompson 4 ай бұрын

Thanks so much!

@Gleepglurp 4 ай бұрын

I agree, ai is terrible to listen to imo

@synjhindb9951 4 ай бұрын

@PhilipThompson as a fellow south African.. I hate the accent 😅😅 guess it means your market is everyone but South Africans. Not bad 😅 Great content none the less

@ohgeazy 4 ай бұрын

@@Red.Dots.is it?

@PhilipThompson 4 ай бұрын

@@ohgeazy no it's not. I narrated this video myself.

@humbleguy4726 4 ай бұрын

I think this the best spy documentary i have watched so far, really well put together it had my attention all the way through. Thank you for posting it, you are very talented.

@PhilipThompson 4 ай бұрын

Thank you very much, that is very kind of you to say!

@ohgeazy 4 ай бұрын

really? he has some better ones in terms on his page! more exciting at least lol

@ScepticPJ 3 ай бұрын

Excellent. We especially like the lack of pointless, noisy interjections and your own, human narration. Well done.

@crimony3054 3 ай бұрын

The swinger parties included several private residences in the Virginia suburbs of Washington, DC, not just the "clubs" listed. After all, the clubs were public. The private residences could be accessed only by invitation or court-approved search warrant. Hana was known as, essentially if not specifically, a nymphomaniac. Therefore, once she got started, she wouldn't stop, and she is not a bad looking woman.

@jimbeam7160 2 ай бұрын

I got introduced to some Swingers in Austin, TX. Who put me into that milieu? A very clever MK beta programmed, fashion model, nympho operative tied to ONI. Her Dad was a retired Flag Admiral, and her brother was a plane broker. I figured the Swingers were good at compromise operations if Austin wouldn't have been so progressive. The Univ Texas was one of the many huge Universities peopled with operatives (usually just gravy train opportunists who's importance was limited to doing little or nothing except promoting the recruiting of more cult members with the goal of maintaining Gov jobs like The parasites they were). Most outsiders to the cult of intelligence have no clue how many Gov jobs are reserved for fellow travelers (cult members). I saw no difference between Commie scum and good solid citizens who were gainfully employed. Nor did I see much nefarious threat to American values (although nepotism casts a dark shadow on meritocracy) by this group. Clandestine chicanery and strategies, seemed like a pathological game to kill time. Anyone of these fools could have introduced themselves and asked me to take a polygraph anytime they wanted. I had nothing to hide. Groups of bored idiots playing James Bond games pretending they were more powerful as a group?....to do what exactly? The goal was selfish: maintaining gainful employment while sucking off the taxpayers and enjoying privileges of rank as special shitheads. To this day, I realized "I was just used as a patsy to rationalize all the surveillance contracts" so morons could enjoy the bonfire of their own vanities while getting paid far more than they were worth. None of the dorks had any sort of special skill, intuition, or focus. Like I said, "I saw no difference between Commie scum and the average boob bozo who see's himself as a hero".

@sarahlamb2333 Ай бұрын

Good way to gather evidence also..but yuk

@crimony3054 Ай бұрын

@@sarahlamb2333 Could gather some STDs too. The Washingtonian magazine from the early 1980s detailed it.

@mrpbody44 19 күн бұрын

I am pretty sure I had an encounter with her at one of the swinger parties in DC. If it is who I remember she was a lot of fun.

@davidcollin1436 Күн бұрын

@@sarahlamb2333many females feel sex is no different than breathing.

@MB-jt9mo 24 күн бұрын

Grew up in 80s Czechoslovakia. Idk what was wilder the mid-late 80s or early -mid 90s....excellent work friend

@noisepuppet 4 ай бұрын

The algorithm finally shows me this channel

@mrsapplez2007 4 ай бұрын

That's exactly how I found this channel. Bout time it reccomend something decent

@aryabastani 4 ай бұрын

Hanna got a job at the British Embassy post her husband being outed as a spy? You couldn't make this sxxt up.

@amanullahkariapper2503 4 ай бұрын

I swear!

@hartmutdietz1228 4 ай бұрын

Thys is very very embarrassing for the UK😂😢😊

@Grimenoughtomaketherobotcry 4 ай бұрын

Only because the Canadian Embassy wasn't hiring that week.

@capobilotti 4 ай бұрын

British government have long history of nothing other than sheer incompetence.

@Bulletguy07 3 ай бұрын

@@hartmutdietz1228 Not really. Much easier for MI5 and the CIA to keep an eye on her there.

@indigocheetah4172 4 ай бұрын

Thank you, Phillip, for an excellent story on espionage. Your narration is on point that I have no need for subtitles.

@peterpluim7912 4 ай бұрын

This is an interesting and very well made video. Thanks. I subscribed.

@annehersey9895 4 ай бұрын

Dubcek forgot the lesson of how to effectively change things when surrounded by people who want things to remain the same-more or less like Gorbachev tried to do. You start with a baby step , then when that change seems normal, you make another change and wait until that is absorbed and repeat and realize it’s going to take you years. What you DONT do is announce it! I really don’t like that the FBI reneged on the deal!

@goingoutonmyshield2811 4 ай бұрын

Another brilliant documentary masterfully put together and presented. Bravo Sir, Bravo.

@TheTexasmick 4 ай бұрын

I'm telling you, that Hana was a gorgeous woman. She probably was the number one salesperson at the jewelry store. It's too bad that she grew up and adopted hard core communism from her parents. A woman like that makes an amazing spy. Her beauty blocks suspicion. I would never believe she was even close to being a traitor.

@vince5348 4 ай бұрын

This reminds me of the finale of the show The Americans. **Spoiler Alert** In the series finale, the Russian spy couple are exfiltrated home to Russia with the FBI closing in. After so many years of integrating themselves into American society, making friends, living a comfortable middle-class life, they are suddenly back in Russia, their kids have decided to stay in America and you can feel their regret as they realize their lives will never be as good as when they were in the U.S. And they're asking themselves what it was all for in the end.

@jjr1728 2 ай бұрын

Elizabeth stayed strong

@GaryPritchard 4 ай бұрын

Fascinating as usual. Superbly narrated and illustrated. Can’t wait for the next one

@amanullahkariapper2503 4 ай бұрын

I'd never heard this story. Thank you!

@blueodum 4 ай бұрын

I think his life would make a very interesting docudrama film.

@stevensica5918 3 ай бұрын

Zero interest in him. What babe would be cast as the loving Commie wife?

@drlobomalo 4 ай бұрын

"What difference did I make?" Oddly enough, that's the major theme of Czech-born playwright Tom Stoppard's play about Cold War espionage, "The Dog It Was that Died."

@newhorizons9446 3 ай бұрын

Excellent production. Well edited, great footage. Worth watching and enjoyed. Thanks, keep up the good work.

@mrsapplez2007 4 ай бұрын

Yaaaaay another upload. I listen to you whilst at work with my earphone in. Your accent and dictation is clear and soothing and non offensive to me ears😊😊. Thanks for keeping me ans all of us entertained. Bright blessings from the uk

@end-days 4 ай бұрын

Great modulation and enunciation

@mancroft 4 ай бұрын

Another outstanding and fascinating video. Thank you.

@HenningColin 4 ай бұрын

Incredible documentaries. Exciting to be here when you're at 72k followers. It'll be 1M soon!

@Trav81888 4 ай бұрын

Another awesome piece of work. Great job

@joedavidson6556 4 ай бұрын

Amazing videos and great work. Looking forward to the next one.

@cinskybuhsrandy5099 4 ай бұрын

Wow, awesome documentary, really a professional job. I was aware of this case, but the level of detail you presented was amazing. IMO your work is at the level of a big TV channel like BBC, or even better.

@xmanhoe 4 ай бұрын

Just found your channel 😎 Excellent work , I grew up during the Cold War. Your narration is very clear, I'm from Belfast Northern Ireland and understand you perfectly 😉 Looking forward to watching your other videos.

@kk33613 4 ай бұрын

Thank you for an excellent video. I'm old enough to remember the events surrounding the Koechers spy couple. I do have to mention your reference to Zbigniew Brzezinski, he was National Security Advisor to President Jimmy Carter not President Lyndon Johnston.

@libbylee9722 4 ай бұрын

He was a counselor to Johnson.

@jeremyexalted8572 3 ай бұрын

Good work, mate ❗️👏

@Giogoalie 3 ай бұрын

This is probably my favorite channel. Great work👍

@davidc3839 4 ай бұрын

If he wants to be proud of something he should focus on the death of the man he betrayed. Ultimately he was in it for the money and cared little about others.

@gaoxiaen1 4 ай бұрын

I guess that kind of person makes a good spy. That said, from what I've read and seen, the KGB was a bunch of cheapskates. Maybe the spying business just isn't very lucrative.

@olivecbe9657 2 ай бұрын

It is crazy to hear how easy was to get a green card back in the day…

@jimbeam7160 2 ай бұрын

@@olivecbe9657 Even more laughable is the idea that America had anything to worry about. Commies were dedicated to catching up to American technology by desperately resorting to intellectual property theft: proof of the incompetence of Communism as an economic model. Nothing had to be done. Communism reduced The USSR to what it was: a second rate Potemkin Village....used as a convenient hob goblin to justify The Cult of Intelligence (a form of delusional group entertainment to suck off of the tax payer while pretending to be valuable). It's all a bonfire of vanities that keeps the alpha males busy doing nothing that could threaten The Conspiracy above Communism. What is The Illuminati?

@mauharley Ай бұрын

The other man was also a double-agent, so you are assuming that he wasn't also responsible for the death of people he betrayed.

@jimbeam7160 Ай бұрын

@@olivecbe9657 It was thought that there was a 100K operatives actively spying and infiltrating America during The Cold War. This outrage was somewhat corroborated after The Fall of USSR, when doc's were sold by desperate former KGB agents. How about that? I found this suspicion at quora. Is it true?

@martinheretics2645 4 ай бұрын

I met him in Prague, 2 years ago, had some chat with him.

@choppermorgan9946 3 ай бұрын

I seen a couple things on them always wanted to meet them being a 55-year-old guy from Indiana I thought it would be cool to meet him I know it'll never happen but doesn't hurt to wish Good luck to him Indiana USA

@ken2tou 2 ай бұрын

Well done. Thank you.

@mistyblues6762 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for another interesting video!

@andymcquade 2 ай бұрын

Excellently put together -and well-told too. Subbed.

@JuliaAlexandra180 4 ай бұрын

Plato's Retreat et al? Ugh, Not such a smart guy as he first appeared. I thoroughly enjoyed this tale and the SA accent!

@michaelbryant2071 4 ай бұрын

Your first instinct is to perhaps dislike this couple. The more l learned about the couple, the more l liked them. We took a second seat to the USSR in the Cold War spy game, Aldrich Ames, James Hansen, Walker family severely damaged our intelligence capabilities. Karl Koecher still lives at age 89 with his wife Hana in Europe.

@adambane1719 4 ай бұрын

These people have no loyalty except to money

@daniellarge9784 5 күн бұрын

Yes, they were capitalists.

@aryabastani 4 ай бұрын

Great content. Keep it up.

@lesflynn4455 4 ай бұрын

Loved the video. New subscriber, fascinated by most things regarding espionage.

@RogerRamjet156 4 ай бұрын

Great research and video!

@happyhermit2022 2 ай бұрын

Excellent thank you...very very interesting 👍

@fekkyb 3 ай бұрын

As others did too. I enjoyed this story.

@lecoqjeannot3358 3 ай бұрын

Great documentary ! And hat's off to this couple.

@robertgirau7339 2 ай бұрын

Imagine being convicted of being unemployed!

@blackbreed6265 Ай бұрын

Underrated comment can you imagine😂😅

@whitby910 4 ай бұрын

Excellent. Thank you

@basilmcdonnell9807 4 ай бұрын

What did he accomplish: he got Scharansky out. Which is something.

@PhilipThompson 4 ай бұрын

Fair comment!

@jimbeam7160 2 ай бұрын

Russians play chess from grade school onward. What does this add: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/En_passant

@floraldays5642 3 ай бұрын

Fascinating!

@yacan1 3 ай бұрын

I greatly appreciate your narration to the AI man. It's hard for me to understand the story when the tone isn't changing to what's happening in the story. I appreciate you

@Forevermade32 4 ай бұрын

I look forward to your videos like the way kids look forward to Christmas

@Tebbylous 4 ай бұрын

Others have said already that the real narration is MUCH better than AI-voice. As someone who only found this channel recently, going back to your earlier AI voiced videos is jarring (I'll be honest I, gave up on them - I just don't like machine voices even if they have gotten a lot better). I would almost suggest re-recording those ones with your own narration - because the scripts, research, etc is all good!

@nancycornett9949 4 ай бұрын

Thank you

@Im_No_Expert_72 4 ай бұрын

Very interesting! Thanks 🙏

@timor64 4 ай бұрын

Very well made - congratulaitons. Love the footage and images you have collected for this. Some points: * Reporting to thh FBI of being approached by Czech intelligence was a brilliant move. At all further polygraph interrogations he would answer "yes" when asked if he had had contact with East Block intelligence. Because he had already reported it, he was covered. * Koecher has always denied compromising Ogerodnik. * Oleg Kalugin never caught a single spy and ended up living in the USA. * The tape of Kalugin's interrogation of Koecher matches with Koecher's account, not Kalugin's * Koecher was nearly killed in prison - that is why he proposed the exchange. He might win in court, but not if he was dead first

@jamess3241 4 ай бұрын

What he said

@kingpest13 4 ай бұрын

I third this

@clarencearnold2137 4 ай бұрын

I've never heard this about Kalugin being considered an asset. What about his running of the Walkers Spy ring? Cant remember the timeline but I assume he didnt handle them the whole time but surely he wouldve revealed it if he was CIA spy

@clarencearnold2137 4 ай бұрын

For all we know he gave up all his STB contacts as well lol, judging from his character.

@howdeedoodee6603 4 ай бұрын

Good information by-side. Thanks for that.

@Baltimore813 25 күн бұрын

This is beautifully written and produced

@nickskrizzle 4 ай бұрын

love hearing the accent again!! prefer the way you compose your videos. Great work my fellow South African!

@Interwurlitzer 4 ай бұрын

if this is not good enough material for a feature film /or a mini-series / i dunno what...

@thomasmorrissey4123 2 ай бұрын

Thank you.

@escapefelicity2913 17 күн бұрын

very well done

@MrGlossyEdits 12 күн бұрын

Glad to have found your channel 🙏🏻

@PickleRick65 2 ай бұрын

Interesting👍👌

@900108Chale 4 ай бұрын

Great video! Thanks so much. Will sub if I find other interesting docus.

@joshgill2871 8 күн бұрын

Really well done videos. I enjoy the channel.

@brianally1531 4 ай бұрын

Viewers interested in Karel Koecher might appreciate Benjamin Cunningham's recent book about him, The Liar (PublicAffairs, 2022). The author had direct access to him while researching the book.

@PhilipThompson 4 ай бұрын

Yes, agreed! His book was one of my primary sources for this video and is linked in the description.

@aussietaipan8700 4 ай бұрын

This was an awesome documentary, 954 liked

@caninerehab6548 4 ай бұрын

Masterpiece

@DaveSCameron 14 күн бұрын

Thanks for your upload. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿⚽️👍

@raymondjelich185 4 ай бұрын

Note the sharp difference between Karl and Hana Koecher (who were supposedly communists and, thus, also supposedly believers in economic and social equality) and Natan Sharansky (see 43:20 - 43:45). The Koechers, as the narrator noted, are dressed in expensive and finely-tailored Western clothing and accessories. Sharansky, on the other hand, while by no means dressed sloppily, is outfitted in the same type of clothing that millions of ordinary Russians wore every day, and that without any accessories. Thus, who were really the true believers in the economic and social equality that the communists supposedly espoused?

@TheDeadfast 25 күн бұрын

Not to mention that as a reward the communist government gave them a Volvo.

@anonymousadult 4 ай бұрын

Fascinating!!!

@vladimirdrbal8960 4 ай бұрын

The Koechers...what a waste of energy, resources and intellect...nothing at the end of the meatgrinder

@gaoxiaen1 4 ай бұрын

Like almost everyone, except they had fun and adventure.

@colinstewart1432 4 ай бұрын

Great Work as always. You should consider covering the story of Nikolai Fedorovich Artamanov a.k.a. Nick Shadrin. I think you'd find it most interesting.

@user-gb7rh9qz8p 3 ай бұрын

one thing he accomplished was ending the life of an unborn child's father. Vile couple

@nezperce2767 17 күн бұрын

Quite interesting

@richardturner5594 4 ай бұрын

A VERY INTERESTING COUPLE !

@brightonmuzahura205 Ай бұрын

Another John Blake. I congratulate 🎊 the couple.

@eugenio1542 3 ай бұрын

Good job, well done 🤟shout out to your member Piet Pompies 😅

@neomarko1731 3 ай бұрын

STb was hardly amateur in its operations as suggested in middle of this video. From what I know, they were better than MI5 at the height of the cold war, so the KGB outsourced many of their ops to STb and Hungarian secret service.

@dieterlanger2025 2 ай бұрын

a great Story

@stevensica5918 3 ай бұрын

Did Hanna consider becoming an escort to bring in $? She had the looks for it and probably could have done well, possibly even snared a Sugar Daddy with deep pockets. Columbia is expensive, even with Fellowships and financial assistance. It took me 10 years to retire my student debt from Columbia.

@alanaronald244 2 ай бұрын

Thank you: I heard the years correctly, but Dubček is pronounced "Dubcheck".

@clarencearnold2137 4 ай бұрын

Armed with complimentsry letters from Klein and Brzenski. Great. Jeez

@baronmeduse Ай бұрын

Bridge of Spaa-es. 😂 I also thought the fellow's name was 'Coral' from the way you said it. Maybe I need to get around more.

@airlinesecret6725 3 ай бұрын

Well you managed to help get Ogorodnik killed !

@stevensica5918 3 ай бұрын

Hanna was one Hot Little Commie.

@richardshiggins704 2 ай бұрын

Very interesting and well narrated . In the end the Spy industry is a dirty business and in the greater scheme of things , pointless .

@FlawlessBegetz 4 ай бұрын

Munich agreement in the 50's... bruh 😂

@norm3523 4 ай бұрын

I joined ..I'm south African 😊

@user-nb4ex5zk3w 4 ай бұрын

Rhodesian?

@basilmcdonnell9807 4 ай бұрын

Curious that you have a map at 22:19 that seems to be from just prior to the German invasion of Russia in 1941. It shows the Japanese occupation of China.

@amer9208 4 ай бұрын

Someones paying attention 👌👍

@JohnWick-jq1bc 4 ай бұрын

i cant tell you how much i love your videos and the joy i get seeing you upload is really appreciated. i miss the ai narrator though

@PhilipThompson 4 ай бұрын

Thank you!

@miel1074 4 ай бұрын

I too miss the ai narrator….and I’m South African…I’m really sorry, but I do prefer the other narrator…

@cattymajiv 3 ай бұрын

Funny how nobody says that but the South Africans, and all of them say it! I wonder why?

@seoulkidd1 3 ай бұрын

Jesus both the CIA and FBI made big mistakes 😂

@King_of_Railways 9 күн бұрын

So did the French and the British before the war!!

@NordicOpinion Ай бұрын

Can't believe any emigre from CSSR would be employed by the CIA at least without a huge post-it note on his/her forehead. I mean, they didn't let people out just like that.

@DaveSCameron 14 күн бұрын

“Hum drum..” - What are you saying, swinging, ale and swag is a better alternative?

@ShadowWizard123 4 ай бұрын

You have a very nice voice for narration.

@ljimlewis 4 ай бұрын

I’m glad I didn’t get into the business. No sophistication I guess. After I heard Carl’s last statement, with no one else around, I blurted out, “LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE…..

@robertadinolfi4217 3 ай бұрын

I wanted to be a Czech refugee in the Ninth grade even though I am of Italian and German lineage and was born in NY as were my parents. I just thought it was cool.

@cattymajiv 3 ай бұрын

Interesting ambition for a NY teenager! 🤣😂🤣