Yes to both. The sword and left-hand gauntlet was certainly a recognised weapon combination and techniques are detailed in the Anonymous Bolognese treatise often known as 'Anonimo Bolognese'. The use of the pistol in the left hand to parry is detailed in an 18th century naval treatise.

Jonathan Allen Yes mailed gloves for the left hand seem to be quite well documented in the 16th-17thC. Though of course these things were probably only useful if you were expecting a fight, as I don't imagine that many men went around wearing them on a daily basis. Or maybe thy did!

scholagladiatoria I wonder if the hand placement may have been dictated by the school's use of off-hand weapons. For example, if the school included dagger, buckler, lantern, cloak, etc., in the off-hand, did they also tend to keep the hand more forward in single-sword style, so as not to drastically change the form for the student when switching from one discipline to another? (I hope that makes sense)

scholagladiatoria Gotta ask about limb protection. Would say a lonngsword user wear a full arm protection with shoulder pad on their main arm or both arms? Or a rapier user with buckler/dagger combo? Because wearing full arm protections looks restrictive correct me if I'm wrong.

wanadeena In civilian swordsmanship there is generally no protection worn, just clothes.

Yes, that was done with certain styles of competitive/sporting swordsmanship - some 18th century British singlestick competitions used this rule.

Eastern bladed weapons like the tulwar, shamshir and kilij are much more curved than European sabers and usually somewhat heavier as well. Consequently using the off-hand on your hip to balance would be less effective as more momentum is going forward and making your lunge/recovery too slow, so you need a different fighting style to accommodate for that.

Well it's not really possible for me to answer, as there are only a few treatises from Egypt and Persia ( www.fioredeiliberi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14678 ) and they don't seem to give that level of detail. Usually the sword in these areas was used with the shield or buckler in the left hand. When the sword was used alone, it seems that the left hand was held in various positions, some of which are mentioned in this video and shown also in European sources.

I really appreciated reading your answer thnx

Wunel Thnx For answering:)

VishnuZutaten Thank u so much for sending i really enjoyed watching the video :)

Yes, the German messer treatises seem to have put the arm behind the back as standard, so it goes back at least the the 14th century, probably a lot earlier.

Not yet. I'm not as close to it as it may seem.

scholagladiatoria I await the day you knock down your camera.

scholagladiatoria how close do you actually stand to the camera and what kind of camera do you use? I stranded my camera one but the picture didn't seem as good when I moved back.

+scholagladiatoria I keep wondering every now and then how much space you have there for everything you do.

That's actually a street knife trick as well. People approach you with the body slightly tilted and one hand hidden to maximize surprise and ability to stab. In fact, if they're brandishing a knife out in front of them, they usually mean "go away." A knife held back means "don't leave until I'm done, please." I've also read a case study in Baltimore which involved a knife stashed at an angle in the rear pocket. It was pulled very quickly and used to stab an assailant 2 times before the assailant realized there was a knife. I've read another study which involved a policeman dealing with a rowdy person in the drunk tank who produced a knife from behind their back and cut up the officer's hands and arms very badly before the officer realized that there had to be a knife around because he was bleeding. What I think makes this effective, though I don't know about the fictional character you speak of, is that people in mortal danger often have tunnel vision due to the effects of the fight-or-flight response. Thus, a knife suddenly produced, especially if it was hidden and is brought out to the side from behind the back, may not be visible due to being outside the tunnel walls.

Trevor Johnson Yeah, that's one reason that they make some fighting Knives with black blades-the blade is almost invisible at night-or so I'm told. I'm just not sure, given the reach difference between even a longish Knife and a Sword that counting on bringing in a sucker punch with a heretofore hidden Knife is all that great a tactic. I have often remarked that most Gun play and handling in movies and on TV was arrant nonsense. Now that I'm learning even a little about Sword handling, I see that they're just as ignorant there. The fictional character that I referred to was "Methos" the oldest Immortal on the "Highlander" TV Series. Haven't rewatched those old shows lately. I'm sure that they're filled with egregious Sword Handling-but I used to enjoy them a decade or so ago. .....RVM45

RVM451 Ah. I watched a few of those but I dunno about how real it was. I do know that pulling a knife out from someplace in the middle of a fight is a very deadly tactic. One thing you might consider, however, is that you have to be within touching range to get a really good draw-cut. People do come that close, and that's how I was trained in the smattering of kenjutsu that I've studied. I also remember some of the accounts of duels where the combatants did exactly what you're talking about. One person got run through, and basically closed onto the sword, pulled out a dagger, and played 18 holes on the other person. With the sword still through them, I might add. Swordfights could get VERY close and personal, even duels.

Generally speaking it's considered a safety issue. I can't speak for HEMA, which at least studies grappling in the context of swordsmanship, but I can speak for modern sport fencing and the SCA. In sport fencing, it's more or less little more than convention. It isn't even studied, as any touch that isn't from the point of the foil/epee or sabre blade, it's an automatic penalty (grappling is a pretty surefire way to be disqualified). I've asked several instructors and the standard response is that it was deemed unsafe and unsportsmanlike when the conventions of modern fencing were being determined. In the SCA it's not done solely for safety reasons. Most SCA combat is done on open ground, without nothing to cushion a fall but whatever armor you're wearing (and if you've ever fallen wearing mail, you'll understand why it's a safety issue). As such, it's generally considered safer to get cracked in the ribs with a weapon (or weapon simulator depending on your group) than to get kicked in the back of the knee and brought down backwards when wearing armor.

"luckily I'm left handed so for me its just a kidney but its still a really bad day in toytown if ya get hit there.".. Then it would be a kidney and a spleen exposed

I have no experience with saber techniques so I'm not qualified to make a judgement on how hand positioning would affect the proper use of a saber, but I always thought that placing your hand on the your lower back would make your shoulders ridged and stiff. Would you mind describing your own experience for me, I'm interested in knowing from someone who's been shown to do it properly

Yes, it's the natural response - which is why many victims of knife attacks get a lot of wounds on their forearms and hands. Better a cut in the arm than in the neck I guess!

scholagladiatoria I've heard the phrase "bone shield" used in some modern combatives-style martial arts to describe this. It ain't pretty, or preferred, but as you said, better in the hand than the neck.

In my experience it only takes one session of trying this against medieval arming swords to break you of the habbit. :D

My experience is pretty much half longsword, half arming sword - and I still keep doing it! One day I will learn. ;)

I grip my stiff johnson with my left hand, and use it as a second weapon...

I have wanted to look more into FMA for a long time, but never really had the time or opportunity. I do think though that many martial arts come to similar conclusions on how to do things, without necessarily having influenced each other directly. There are only a limited number of ways to sensibly use certain types of weapon, after all.

I've heard that during Spain's conquest of the Philippines, Spanish swordsmen held their own, and Filipinos added some elements from the rapier and dagger to their existing fighting styles. The big emphasis was on the cut due to machete style tools they carried at the time for agricultural reasons. So the Filipino systems are a combination of Kuntao (Hokkien Chinese martial arts), copied parts of Spanish fencing, and the systems already there.

scholagladiatoria I have been into FMA for quite some time. It's interesting to note that in Filipino Stick/Blade fighting, the off hand is always kept at the chest so that it becomes easy to grapple the opponent's weapon hand away when receiving a cut or to try a disarm move. Glad to see that HEMAs also had a similar concept. :)

Bob Miplace It seems the Filipinos drew a lot from the spanish "Destreza" or "La verdadera Destreza" style of fencing.

scholagladiatoria Maybe you could start your research into FMA by reading some Spanish "La Verdadera Destreza" Manuals. Many footwork and blade concepts are similar between the two arts. (It's no wonder, since the Spanish had a strong presence in the Philipines for a loooong time.)

Silver's techniques (at around 4:40) let you deflect thrusts only, but very handily. I'd stay away from blocking cuts & thrusts outright, though.

It's used extensively Italian side sword techniques like Saviolo's during the late 15th to early 17th centuries to deflect a thrust or to knock the opponent's sword aside in a bind. It's quite effective and can throw the opponent off balance leaving them opening for a counter thrust or a cut.

You basically just have to get used to the weight, it works, just not as easily as modern saber. Alternatively, you can use a “thumbs up” grip, which is seen in British military saber.

Sorry no. Fiore did not keep the left hand behind the back (he has it in front of the groin) and he shows the dagger worn at the left side! :-)

Hm, so would that make my point about reaching for the dagger with the left valid regardless of my oversight on the actual position in fiore? Goes to show, been a while since i had any serious practice...