This lecture by Rick Atkinson was filmed on the 70th Anniversary of D-Day Cruise.
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@adventussaxonum4482 жыл бұрын
My granddad was on board a minesweeper on 5th-6th June, clearing approaches to the British and Canadian beaches. He had been called up as a reservist after serving through WW1 as a boy seaman. (16 years old at Jutland). His brother in law was on HMS Roberts, a 15" monitor, shelling German positions.
@user-qp3xe6vn6d3 жыл бұрын
Gosh I’m addicted to these kind of lectures lately. So informative.
@georgefoster81332 жыл бұрын
Have watched most of them, this cruise was a great idea
@bbrenddon2 жыл бұрын
I like these kind of lectures but I use them to got to sleep lol
@Petal4822 Жыл бұрын
Amazing videos, brilliant for getting me to sleep.
@billolsen4360 Жыл бұрын
This fella is a very gifted speaker.
@firingallcylinders29493 ай бұрын
Same, you always think you know alot about WWII and then there's always way more
@henryj.85283 жыл бұрын
Glantz, Citino, and Atkinson. Nobody does it better. Atkinson is a thorough researcher and Pulitzer-prize winning author. None better. Excellent presentation. Important points you won't find elsewhere.
@terrysmith93622 жыл бұрын
Sorry Henry but if the subject is D day planning he gas not got a clue but if you want to talk about solely the US preperations and the number of k rations,whatever fgey are, I am sure he is word oerfect. 78000 US soldiers landed on Dday with 80000 Britush and Canadians but this guy discounts them all together. A totally partial view of the facts
@silentotto50993 жыл бұрын
The discussion of mine sweeping before the invasion reminded me of something I once read when it came to clearing the obstacles Rommel had emplaced to defend the beaches. The engineers who were tasked with clearing the waterline obstacles were provided with buoys to mark the channels they'd cleared so the landing craft drivers would know where they could safely travel. But, who ever was in charge of procuring the buoys neglected to specify that they should come in two different colors, one color to mark the right side of the channel and another to mark the left. In the confusion of the invasion, many of the buoys the engineers had placed were either dislodged from their mooring and floated away or were hit by fire and sunk. With only one buoy left to mark the channel there was no way to tell if it was marking the right side of the channel or the left. Several landing craft were lost when their drivers guessed wrong, missed the cleared channel and ran into one of the obstacles.
@sliceofheaven3026 Жыл бұрын
Logistics might not be as interesting of a subject than the actual battles but I firmly believe that logistics are what determines the winners and loosers in a war. Keeping soldiers warm and fed is as important as keeping them supplied with ammunition.
@65TossTrap4 ай бұрын
The German invasion of Russia was a logistical blunder of epic proportions. Not enough ammo. Not enough fuel. Not enough vehicles or parts. Insufficient clothing. Insufficient medical. Only the professionalism of the German army, and the incompetence of the Russian army, gave the Germans any chance of success.
@kaylemoine15713 жыл бұрын
Watched it twice (so far). A part of the war people don't think of. A topic that could be as boring as can be, made fascinating by a great story teller. Thanks.
@darger33 жыл бұрын
Brilliant lecture. 🇺🇸 🇨🇦 🇬🇧
@marshaprice82269 ай бұрын
Being detailed-oriented, I have wondered how all the people and supplies for D-Day were handled. Very interesting and entertaining picture of how it was done.
@gerhardusvanrooyen66633 жыл бұрын
Mr. Atkinson certainly knows his subject. Well presented fascinating and thank you for sharing this video with me and many others.
@richardcrow58272 жыл бұрын
He never takes about the rubber tanks and trucks these were made in my home town Woking the Sorbo Rubber works Richard Crow
@andyhank48672 жыл бұрын
i know Im randomly asking but does anyone know a method to get back into an instagram account..? I stupidly lost my account password. I would appreciate any tricks you can give me.
@finnclay94712 жыл бұрын
@Andy Hank instablaster =)
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@andyhank48672 жыл бұрын
@Finn Clay it did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. Im so happy:D Thank you so much, you saved my ass!
@jguth6Ай бұрын
What an excellent speaker
@vincegiaccone44112 жыл бұрын
Thanks Rick for the information shared leading up to Operation Overlord.
@billd26353 жыл бұрын
I enjoyed this much. Thankyou for presenting it to us.
@1701EarlGreyАй бұрын
I'm watching this 10 years later in 80th anniversary - let's see what interesting thing this guy have to say.
@alantoon57083 жыл бұрын
The "invasion stripes" painted on the aircraft were in black and white. It is sad to see that even today, the average American infantryman is still carrying way too much additional weight...
@davidmyton60573 жыл бұрын
Excellent presentation. Logistics made lovely
@danpoole4915 Жыл бұрын
What a wonderful walk by heroes through perilous waters. Gratis.
@udeychowdhury25293 жыл бұрын
Wow!!! Great stuff, thanks
@johanneduardschnorr37333 жыл бұрын
I really liked the lecture! He really paints a great visual as to the huge amounts of material that was earmarked for the invasion. My only complaint to this type of lecture is the q&a portion. There is invariably a whole slew of questions asked that the “questioner” already knows the answer. It always seems to me that these people just want attention! Aka- “look how smart I am!” (Slapton Sands question for example)...
@black__bread3 жыл бұрын
Aye, a classic type of academic conference question begins with - would the speaker agree that ...
@paulbantick8266 Жыл бұрын
It was Montgomery who wanted and got, the landing beaches from 3 to 5.
@paddy8648 ай бұрын
Yes. And it was he who delivered that talk at St.Paul's School in which he succinctly and brilliantly explained to all present how the operation would be conducted and what the plan, HIS plan, was for the subsequent operations which would lead to the utter defeat of the German armies in France.I really can't comprehend how Atkinson has managed to deliver this lecture without hardly a mention of Monty other than in his anecdote about his "Double", Clifton James. He even managed to make that sound disparaging. 🙄
@lyndoncmp57514 ай бұрын
@paddy864 Certain Americans hate giving any credit to Montgomery, even when he directed their own battle for them in the Ardennes.
@windyhillbomber26 күн бұрын
How about Monty in Antwerp?
@davidrasch30822 жыл бұрын
As a boy I talked with some navy and army men who made the invasion. That was the early 1960's and the men were young enough and so were their memories to make it real.
@billolsen4360 Жыл бұрын
That was an awesome privilege
@dr.barrycohn54613 жыл бұрын
A little detail on various types of vehicles that were going to get wet included waterproof light bulbs. Ones that could tolerate sea water.
@richardrichard54092 жыл бұрын
All bulbs are waterproof 😎
@paulbantick8266 Жыл бұрын
St Nazaire raid was a costly success, not a failure.
@paddy8648 ай бұрын
He obviously mixed it ip with Dieppe, which makes you wonder about his credibility really, like mixing Pearl harbour up with Wake island.
@williammyles27 күн бұрын
Very interesting and informative thank you
@SubTroppo4 ай бұрын
I have read recently that prior to invasion day the "British and Canadian" beaches were closely surveyed and navigation markers were installed by the British Navy's Special Boat Service but that the Americans did not risk using marks which partially led to the mess at Omaha beach (and I assume also Utah too).
@richardrichard54092 жыл бұрын
These are brilliant, I'm recovering from surgery so very handy indeed. 😉😎
@Petal4822 Жыл бұрын
Amazing videos, brilliant for getting me to sleep at night. Lol 😂
@SuperBowser877 жыл бұрын
A true treasure great author
@HerbertDuckshort3 ай бұрын
“The British genius for duplicity….” Is that supposed to be a compliment?
@timburr445310 ай бұрын
lol regarding the tunnel...what are they gonna do when they pop up and out of the tunnel as soon as it's done very very interesting...he even knew Ike's smoking habits and blood pressure
@stephenede-borrett1452 Жыл бұрын
Great lecture and a first class presentation. Thankyou.
@xl51956 Жыл бұрын
Heavy stuff ... Very heavy !! That's why we are all proud in my Islands and to you the USA! We both owe a huge debt to the youth of the generations of both our countries😢 I say thank you America and the commonwealth countries Like Canada Anzac and India for my freedom today and in my children's future .. 👏👏👏👏👏
@witkocaster Жыл бұрын
The more I know about the 2WW the more I'm interested in overall strategy, logistic and economy of war, less in actual battles.
@dr.barrycohn5461 Жыл бұрын
Watching for the third or forth time, still great. They dug a channel...eventually.
@EllieMaes-Grandad2 жыл бұрын
Some attempt at aerial reconnaissance was undertaken by the Germans. They had a few high performance, very high altitude planes. Allies responded quickly and built similar aircraft; job done.
@grumpyoldman86612 жыл бұрын
It fell to General Montgomery (as the Land Force Commander) to give the initial presentation of his strategic plan for the Normandy Campaign at St. Paul's School on the 7th April 1944 to the military top brass, and then again on 15th May 1944 to the assembled senior military and various VIPs. Montgomery was praised for the clarity of his delivery, and there could be no misunderstanding of the tactical battle he intended his armies to fight. The Anglo-Canadian forces of 21 Army Group would 'suck-in' the bulk of the Panzer divisions onto the British sector, enabling General Bradley time to formulate a breakout from the American sector ("Operation Cobra") against diminished opposition. This was achieved. Montgomery had predicted the Campaign would end with victory for the Allies by D+90. In fact it concluded 11 days earlier.
@lyndoncmp57512 жыл бұрын
Indeed. And not only was Normandy won ahead of schedule, but Montgomerys British 21st Army Group was out of France and had taken Brussels, Belgium by the time only Paris was the target.
@thevillaaston78112 жыл бұрын
Yep. And look at what Hollywood did to that St Paul's School presentation. In Ike Ten Days to D-Day or some such rubbish, Montgomery is wrongly shown as trying to get people not to smoke, and then a couple of wise yanks speak about how Eisenhower let Montgomery make the presentation as some sort of favour to soothe his ego. As if a zero combat, know nothing like Eisenhower was ever going to be able to make presentation like that.
@bigwoody4704 Жыл бұрын
Fan Boys to the rescue of England's most quirky General.A pathetic mentality is still pathetic regardless of how you try to justify it. Monty started his revision almost immediately when it was obvious he was no commander and got stuck after 6 months of planning.The German Panzers not Monty that decided where they would go. Bernard they already been bounced off the continent once before. He stated at this very conference Caen was a D-Day objective. *Decision in Normandy,by Carlo D'este,p.80 HQ 21 Army Group,14 April 1944 ,B.L. Montgomery, CiC ."the whole of aggressive tactics would be to retain the initiative ourselves and to cause alarm in the minds of the enemy.To be successful, such tactics must be adopted on D-Day; to wait till D plus 1 would be to lose the opportunity, and also to lose the initiative.* There you have it the chirpy chimp sealing his own rep yet again
@paddy8648 ай бұрын
You're an ignoramus, a 5yr old's understanding of this subject, your post above is ample proof of that. @@bigwoody4704
@paddy8648 ай бұрын
Indeed, isn't it odd that Atkinson not only didn't mention that at all, but never even uttered Monty's name, the man who would command the entire Operation from the moment the first Allied boot hit the sands of Normandy. The presentation at St.Paul's School finally banished all doubts in Churchill's mind about Overlord, he commented afterwards that he felt himself hardening to the enterprise.Apparently all who listened to it were afterwards convinced that was not only possible but that success was virtually certain.
@dr.barrycohn54613 жыл бұрын
Very good presentation, chock full of facts.
@lorddaver30192 жыл бұрын
And mistakes. Anyone who knows the outcome of the Raid on St. Nazaire would not call it a failure.
@stonward11 ай бұрын
This should be required 'reading' for all young people...
@billolsen4360 Жыл бұрын
I do enjoy these stories of British deceptions. Or, should I say that I get the utmost pleasure from that chap recounting tales of British duplicity and the flurry of absurd & fruitless scurrying about it causes amongst Gerry's high command.
@mortalclown38122 жыл бұрын
Video starts at 3:00.
@doctorwoohoo1152 Жыл бұрын
This sort of lecture is why I don't watch any television any more. That, and y'know, TV's mostly crap now.
@cgo225 Жыл бұрын
The planning done by General Morgan's team over a year before Eisenhower took coomand was invaluable to the success of Overlord but is rarely acknowledged - and, sadly, this lecture is no exception.
@TheFreshman3214 жыл бұрын
St Paul's was Monty's old almamata.
@paddy8648 ай бұрын
Shhhh, you mean, "He who should not be named", as Atkinson managed not to do.
@eschiedler2 жыл бұрын
Interesting presentation and told in an entertaining pace.... sadly, the civilians in France that were shattered by the invasion are often forgotten.
@livingadreamlife14282 жыл бұрын
The impact on the lives of civilians in war-torn countries in Europe and on the Pacific islands during WW2 was enormous. Caught in a crossfire in a conflict in which they had no control over.
@TheYeti3082 жыл бұрын
Think any one will be there ?
@timgluckman86639 ай бұрын
Would be interesting to know how many one-off morphine syringes were distributed: ...nothing more demoralising than hearing a comrade screaming after his foot blown off. He does tell us how much penicillin & plasma (carefully split along skin color lines). AFAIK no grey-market developed in those syringes - which didn't always work due to e.g. high / low temperature
@richardhumphrey26857 ай бұрын
Were the Americans involved on D-Day too then?
@lyndoncmp57514 ай бұрын
As the junior partner yes.
@joealp81963 жыл бұрын
Blood was not segregated by the UK forces. Only in the US.
@Petal4822 Жыл бұрын
That was because the U.K. had very few blacks.
@joealp8196 Жыл бұрын
@@Petal4822 Please explain how black numbers determined transfusion policy.
@Petal4822 Жыл бұрын
@@joealp8196 There was no point in segregating blood in the U.K. … look at the British soldiers crossing the channel on D-Day…..they were all white. That was why the numbers determined the lack of any transfusion policy in the U.K.
@joealp8196 Жыл бұрын
@@Petal4822 Britain had many thousands of imperial troops fighting in all theatres of the war; over 2 million in the British Indian Army alone. There was no blood segregation. You have not shown any causal link between numbers and policy.
@bigwoody4704 Жыл бұрын
Indeed - the English have a way of using colonials as their sandbags - ask Australia, New Zealand, Canada,Ireland and especially the Indians.
@joechang86963 жыл бұрын
I wonder why most troops arrived in Glasgow and not Liverpool? Was Liverpool prioritized for material?
@ozdorothyfan3 жыл бұрын
I believe it may have been a slightly safer passage. Have to get them into port as quickly as possible. Imagine the devastating loss of life if just one U Boat had got lucky.
@joechang86963 жыл бұрын
@@ozdorothyfan U-boats preferred to operate in a picket line in the mid-Atlantic beyond the range of search aircraft. normal tactic to is to wait for a convey. if day time, submerge and let it pass. then surface and over take at night for an attack. Ships that can cruise at 20kt sustained were not considered vulnerable, hence it was routine for cruise liners to sail alone, while typical merchants capable of 10kt were considered vulnerable. Indianapolis was not given an escort because she could cruise sustained at 20kt+, but was sunk in part because she took a direct route from Guam to the Leyte, and it it not hard to figure out that there would be traffic between a major US base and a forward base
@johnburns40173 жыл бұрын
At the time Liverpool dwarfed Glasgow, being the largest operational port in the world. 100,000s of US troops did embark at Liverpool, which had the passenger landing stage (the largest floating structure in the world). But cargo was the priority. All the Mustangs came into Liverpool, in knock down form, being finished off at a factory at Liverpool airport. Then test flown over the Mersey estuary by young girls.
@castlerock583 жыл бұрын
@@joechang8696 They didn't have cruise liners back then. They had ocean liners that were a different design. They were built to cross the Atlantic in as short a time as possible. Cruise liners are common now when speed is less important than fuel economy and comfort. They are not intended to go from point A to point B as fast as possible. They are also designed to provide as may balconies as possible. As far as I know, the only remaining ocean liner is the Queen Mary II.
@Petal48222 жыл бұрын
Glasgow and Greenock were on the River Clyde which made it easier to spot U-boats. German planes didn’t have the same fuel capacity to take them to Glasgow and Greenock. They had railways that lead straight into the Glasgow and Greenock ports that took the soldiers quickly to the south of England.
@sonnig5499 Жыл бұрын
No closed captioning. Unfortunate.
@petergianakopoulos492612 күн бұрын
Thank goodness the Greeks gave the allies time to prepare
@0351nick-ch8ee Жыл бұрын
When this guy quotes statistics from ww2...does he take into account the 1936 begining of the war or just America's I volvement???
@thevillaaston78119 ай бұрын
Doubtless, just America's involvement.
@Titus-as-the-Roman7 ай бұрын
Who's a Yankee, The Southern Mans Burden
@Rohilla3132 жыл бұрын
Rick Atkinson has an amazing command of the English language but you have to read his books to realize this.
@dancolley4208 Жыл бұрын
LST ... Large, Slow Target
@johnstevenson17093 жыл бұрын
Wait on no one in America had heard of Paris?
@davidwright71932 жыл бұрын
Cherbourg was the main French port for transatlantic liner traffic from 1900 through to the 60’s. So that should have been well known as well.
@williampockets11 ай бұрын
Never heard of it. what is a Paris?
@clydecessna7372 жыл бұрын
Nothing new here.
@nickdanger38022 жыл бұрын
1.5 million Americans
@castlerock583 жыл бұрын
There's almost nothing about the planning for D Day. This guy thinks the British commandos failed at St Nazaire.
@stevenhenry96052 жыл бұрын
I think he misspoke there. He was clearly referring to Dieppe. Good nitpick though. ;)
@EllieMaes-Grandad2 жыл бұрын
@@stevenhenry9605 Was Dieppe a failure? A raid in force, a learning experience, rich and useful expedition which taught useful lessons for D-Day.
@stevenhenry96052 жыл бұрын
@@EllieMaes-Grandad, I agree that many lessons were learned that proved useful later. But the same could be said of any military defeat. That doesn't make it a victory. The US Navy learned an awful lot about night fighting at Savo Island, so they won the next nighttime cruiser engagement at Cape Esperance, but it remains the worst defeat they ever suffered at sea. Dieppe was a tactical disaster.
@EllieMaes-Grandad2 жыл бұрын
@@stevenhenry9605 I would never attribute any idea of 'victory' to the Dieppe raid. The results were very bad, but if what was learnt from it benefitted D-day, not a disaster.
@michaelinhouston90864 ай бұрын
Around 5:44 Mr Atkinson makes the surprisingly uninformed comment about towns in France that no one in America had heard of before. Of course, Mr Atkinson offers no evidence for such a conclusory statement and is oblivious to the fact that the AEF had spent substantial time in France during the First World War. My maternal grandfather (and I bet his fellow soldiers) in the AEF sure knew about them.
@D45VR4 ай бұрын
most Americans were not part of the AEF
@ppumpkin32828 ай бұрын
Each soldier carrying a 68 pound back? Why not wait till they get off the beach before you weigh them down.
@D45VR4 ай бұрын
yes, one would think it was possible to get the gear on shore one way or the other.
@pauljshields1233 жыл бұрын
St nazaire raid a failure!!!.. The dry dock wasn't operational until after the war... The Tirptitz never felt Norwegian waters ..and was sunk finally by RAF...
@johnburns40173 жыл бұрын
St.Nazaire was a success.
@pauljshields1233 жыл бұрын
@@johnburns4017 English sarcasm . .
@johnburns40173 жыл бұрын
@@pauljshields123 No *fact.* As been mentioned the dock at St.Nazaire was made inoperable to large German warships. The raid was success achieving its aims.
@pauljshields1233 жыл бұрын
@@johnburns4017 I am the one who is criticising the yank historian I am on your side.... I think he met to say Dieppe raid
@johnburns40173 жыл бұрын
@@pauljshields123 I got that impression as well. Dieppe was not a failure. It was a *test* of enemy defences. No matter what the outcome, it was to *analyse* the enemy defences.
@vinkobosnyak446311 ай бұрын
Ironic that they gave the troops sea sickness pills, yet on D-day morning, the breakfast they gave them was greasy steak and eggs.
@Shawnroberts198010 ай бұрын
How in the world are you still recording and uploading videos in 480p? Good lord. Please upgrade to 1080p or at least 720p. The quality is terrible.
@docholiday797510 ай бұрын
It's a lecture with no visual aids, who cares.
@themoviejunky39186 ай бұрын
Less American-centric please. In other words, be accurate.
@petergianakopoulos492612 күн бұрын
No! USA! USA!
@andrewpereira92712 жыл бұрын
Quartermaster Atkinson can, at times, seem a bit too reliant on the recitation of the staggering amounts of material produced, shipped and consumed by an antagonist in a major war. I suppose some might find it interesting to know the number of telephone poles shipped from the U.S. to Great Britain during the war . . . but I don't . . . especially not when it's just one of a thousand other such statistics we're presented ( i.e. the tonnage of K-rations, the number of landing crafts and pairs of socks, and so on and on and on). Obviously, one's supplies will often play a crucial, critical role in warfare. But, I don't know if it must overshadow, or drown out, the human stories and personalities in the RETELLING of a history . . . of those involved in, and/or behind, the conflict. On the other hand, as a reader or an audience, to each his own, of course.
@rob-merica2 жыл бұрын
I believe the specifics aren’t what’s important here. I think what makes it interesting is the sheer scale of what was required. Most viewers probably never considered they’d need to install fresh telephone lines across Europe, let-a-lone erect new poles. The gathering of materiel and the logistical problem solving required is all part of the human story. For every bandage that made its way to France, a hundred average people needed to figure out the best, the cheapest, and most efficient way to make it and get it there.
@billolsen4360 Жыл бұрын
@@rob-merica Exactly
@dakotatypo280511 ай бұрын
There's nothing wrong with Atkinson's style, dawg, it's just your preference. You could have just looked for a different lecture on video or something and it would've been fine, but voicing this sort of opinion here seems like you think these details don't matter enough to be discussed, which is wrong.
@andrewpereira927111 ай бұрын
@@dakotatypo2805 I don't disagree, and I don't want to discount Atkinson's efforts as an excellent historian. I've read his books. I probably should have read the title of this talk more carefully . . . "The PLANNING of the Longest Day." I'm expressing my preferences, a low threshold for the stats stuff. To each his own, of coourse.
@dakotatypo280511 ай бұрын
@@andrewpereira9271 That's fair my broski
@404macon2 жыл бұрын
Love the presentation but the stage is a bit much. A cross between a stand up comedy bar and a whore house. Especially love the Star Track curtain which reminds me of an eight grade science fair. But I’ll say great presentation, hopefully I’ll get over the stage vertigo the backdrop caused. Oh forgot to mention the lovely ORANGE allowing floor which reminds me of a TN football game or sone kind sacrificial platform used by your favorite satanic cult for sacrifices. Keep up the great work, loose your interior designer though. Maybe hand cuff some plans to him/her and chuck em’ into the South China Sea.
@stevenrickett43332 жыл бұрын
Only 4 minutes in and oh dear. Americans just can't help themselves. As if it was primarily an American operation. Three generals mentioned. All American. Obviously Eisenhower but then Montgomery is the second surely. Fewer than half the troops were American. Air Force and naval was down to one third and one quarter American. I can only hope he does better on reconnaissance, intelligence, technical innovation etc etc.
@terrysmith93622 жыл бұрын
I am afraid so typical of American historians. They really just follow the Hollywood script
@grumpyoldman86612 жыл бұрын
Yes, it is tiresome, and Rick Atkinson appears to be blind to the contribution of anyone but Americans. Britain's massive contribution is virtually ignored at 10:30 when I stopped watching, so perhaps I've done him an injustice. Monty was the architect of the OVERLORD campaign and to try to erase that is an historical distortion.
@davehallett8102 жыл бұрын
@@terrysmith9362 I'm taking nothing away from our guys and for such a small country Britain did punch above its weight, but without America and Americas industrial might we would of not been able to launch such a massive operation. The second world war was won on the production lines of Detroit.
@terrysmith93622 жыл бұрын
@@davehallett810 Dave The UK provided 91% of its own war needs
@terrysmith93622 жыл бұрын
@@davehallett810 WW2 was won in Detroit Melbourne Liverpool Glasgow Ottowa and a thousand other places
@terrysmith93622 жыл бұрын
this guy talks well but he makes fundamental mistakes such that you question his absolute knowledge of what he is presenting
@pwr2al42 жыл бұрын
He has received the Pulitzer prize twice.
@terrysmith93622 жыл бұрын
@@pwr2al4 yep Pulitzer prize given to Americans by Americans. LOL it means nothing to non Americans
@pwr2al42 жыл бұрын
Wow another Brit who still believes he is better than. Color me shocked.
@terrysmith93622 жыл бұрын
@@pwr2al4 I should also have added"writing about Americans"
@terrysmith93622 жыл бұрын
@@pwr2al4 The many British and Canadian military cemetries aroind Normandy say otherwise. We Brits do not insult the many brave American who fought at Normandy but ignorant people like some are not even aware of the Anglo bit of the Anglo American invasion