As a paramedic I really appreciated this podcast. One thing to add is the rib muscle expands the chest cavity which creates a negative air pressure in the lungs which is what draws the air into the lungs causing ventilation. So on top of all the info already given so beautifully by doc, you want two holes to allow the collapse of the ventilation process. Having two is simply because you already admitted the chance of the holes being occluded so adding the increased odds of one functional hole. Bigger those holes are the better your odds are but having stupid sharp broadheads that retain their structural integrity is gping to maximize the retention of KE and maximize the rapid hemorrhagic shock.

I was taught that your broad head must be razor sharp to cut ( not jag ) thru the chest cavity, so you need a durable steel broad head to attain this , if you get your arrrow back and the broad head is dull then it didn’t do its job , the podcast today said the same thing, you should cut thru the chest gravity to achieve this ( not chop thru it ) and cut every artery you can that’s why I go with a single bevel razor sharp stroped broad head to shoot with, thanks for bringing dr Attia on today , just reaffirmed what I have learned from that it does matter what you shoot on the end of your arrow,

John, you're my archery Grandmaster. Once when you finish this series of podcasts please summarize all this knowledge into one video to make archery community happy. Cheers

Ive killed multiple 6x6 bulls with a bow that was shooting 255fps with a 420gr arrow and got complete pass thru's with a 4 blade grizz trick... shot placement is everything!!

So we are now at the point that modern bows accuracy and efficiency are better than they have ever been , we see competition like TAC shooting out to extended ranges with archers achieving impressive accuracy but as responsible hunters we can’t stalk in close or wait for the animal to present an ethical shot? All of these technical advances yet the key to success is having an extra .5~1in of cutting diameter ?, this argument makes no sense at all, in Australia we have no seasons or bag limits on most deer species and growing up on a farm as a young fella we hunted almost every weekend and killed buckets of Fallow and Red deer using fixed blade broadheads, we waited for the right shot to put the arrow where it needed to go and with very few exceptions recovered our animals, I’ve tried expandables and have been unimpressed most of the time, when they work they can be spectacular but when they don’t they are rubbish , they remind me a bit of fishing lures that are designed to catch the angler more than the fish , I shoot 150g kayuga single bevels with the bleeder almost exclusively these days and like the Doctor have looked at the internal effects on game , the single bevel s cut an the ability to bust bones along with the penetration makes them extremely effective, the most important factor is structural integrity and being sharp once inside the animal not in the packet at the archery store, a 2in cut through the heart isn’t going to be anymore deadly than a 1.5in cut in the same place, if you can’t hit them right don’t release the arrow, too many egos in the field these days.

All I can say is Thank You Mr. Dudley. These have been great conversations for us to listen too.

This may be the pinnacle podcast episode, relative to archery shot lethality. Two experts in their fields, a confluence of knowledge.

What a fantastic pod cast !! Awesome

Perfect timing!!! I’m out on the back of my property putting in reps tuning and sighting in my hunting rig. Now I have something to listen to while I’m at it

There is a wide range of combinations of set-ups that can absolutely complete the objective. What's humane is accuracy into the "triangle of death of vitals" and short blood trails. If you want to shoot a 600 grain arrow - do it. If you like fast 300 grain arrows - they work just fine from the right setup. The mountain elk killers here shoot speed for the typical 50-60 yard shot and 350 grain arrows that blow right thru the lungs with Mega Meat heads. Short draw and light weight draws setups benefit from the improved penetration designs whereby the heavy setups with power to spare can easily shoot the speed setups successfully. Stay away from hitting bone at all when possible.

Dr. Attia, thanks for your medically trained perspective on the trauma of an arrow. I studied 27 years ago to be a surgeon in the local university for a few years before changing career paths. Many years later I have now operated a successful archery pro-shop for 20+ years and have had the opportunity to go down the pathways you discussed in this video-cast with Dud. I find fascination in the trauma inflicted by an arrow, and have taken every opportunity in my 38 years hunting to shoot different broadheads for every animal I have taken and am careful to dissect the animals to visualize what happened. I find as an avid mule deer, whitetail and elk hunter, that when aiming at animals that I am looking with the "X-ray" mentality of where the arrow will pass through organs, and where it will exit the animal on the opposite side. My most recent elk was shot at 54yards broadside, and my 452 grain arrow with a Slick Trick SS3 solid head passed through to where the fletching caught in the far side shoulder joint, having passed through the near scapula, rib and exiting through the tendons holding the offside shoulder to the upper leg bone. The prior was a whitetail at 34 yards on a hard quartering away angle, with the 420 grain Grim Reaper Hades Micro Pro 3 blade head entering behind the ribs and exiting through his chest. In both instances, having knowledge of the internals of each animal was crucial in causing both to expire in seconds, and yards. With the whitetail this knowledge and vision was of utmost importance because I was 40 yards from a fence, and the property across the fence was owned by a man who told us that under no circumstances were we to trail a shot animal across into his property. I had to be able to dispatch the deer in such a way he could not get to the fence. The shot angle I was provided proved to be perfect and my arrow unzipped his cavity from back to front down the midline, and the buck snow-plowed 35 yards and died 5 from the neighbor's fence. Knowledge is power. Lungs, diaphragm, arteries and veins were all instantly severed, reducing him to a stumbling mess. I am honored to have taken a 6-1/2 year old deer that the outfitter had never seen in person or on camera. Again, thanks for your input. Happy hunting.

Using Peter’s logic Ashby is correct, 3 to 1 broadhead getting maximum penetration. Being that Ashby was shooting animals three and a half foot thick. The size of the hole is irrelevant get both sacks that hold the lungs. Should you hit on side bone you want a 3 to 1 single bevel to get through to the off side.

Really enjoying the podcasts JD well done. Couple of thoughts for you. I have had the privilege of being born in Africa but I have only been hunting with a bow for 35 years of the 57 years of my life. I have shot many animals of all different sizes and have done culling as well, so a large amount of game downed with a bow. I too started with the Easton 2219 with a Zwiki, and was very successful. Then the rockets came out and I thought it would be great. I was very successful with them as well. The only dislike I have with the expandable broad heads was the fact that I had to replace the blades or the Ferrell would bend and I could not reuse the head. 995 of the fixed heads I have shot, especially the latest heads on the market, you just re-sharpen and shoot. In Zimbabwe you have to use what lasts due to the expense of the equipment. I have gone back to shooting Axis 260 spine, 30 inch arrow 75 grain insert, 200 grain head, total weight 660g. I shoot a 70# bow at29.5 inch draw. While hunting I have not shot an animal over 40m. I have shot animals that have been wounded at greater distances but not often. When I look at the animal that I want to harvest, I split the front legs and go up one third of the body and look for something on the surface of the skin to aim at. The angle of the animal will not matter if you use this formula. I was always taught to respect the game you hunt and give it your best shot to get the cleanest quickest kill. That is why I aim at the heart. I do not believe that any shot beyond 40m is ethical. There are too many more factors that can cause a poor hit. Ethics are an individuals out look and not law. Each to his own, I love the challenge of the hunt, i.e. shooting a Duiker at 7 yards walk and stalk or impala at 5 yards walk and stalk, gave me more satisfaction than any Eland, Kudu, Sable or Zebra. That is why I bow hunt. Thanks again for the great content. I have also been a competitive archer FITA, 3D and field. Love the sport.

I live in Maryland and hearing the Baltimore stories are freaking great!! 😂😂 so true lmao Also what a great run of podcasts that you've been putting out John Thank you!

A lot of good information on the internal structures and how different shots makes animals bleed out faster and slower. I think that people are looking for a answer to their poor shooting abilities due to lack of practice! The theory of " if I hit him anywhere it's going to do the job". Accuracy is the best killer for any type of game that you hunt! I am no world class archer by any means but I practice all year long to eliminate any problems that might arise in my abilities! I have never worried about blowing threw a animal with a 650gr arrow. Just making the shot where I intend to hit. To each his own 🤔🎯

Really cool video brother ...vary interesting

Awesome podcast! Really enjoyed listening to Peter. I also perform an autopsy on every animal I shoot and totally agree it’s invaluable. The buck I killed last year was hit EXACTLY as the situation Peter described at 1:44:45. Slight quartering to from elevated position. The arrow passed through near side lung, diaphragm, liver, guts, and exited the belly on opposite side. ZERO blood on the ground in very dense thicket during hot weather, which unfortunately led to a recovery beyond the time I was comfortable eating the meat. ZERO external blood loss because the entrance hole was high and the exit hole was sealed by guts. But the chest cavity was FULL of dark blood. He traveled right at 100 yards, and I believe probably went unconscious from low blood pressure, at which point he continued to internally bleed out. Or as Peter would say in a single word, hemopneumothorax.

Love these types of casts.

Austin texas here…of course people are listening! i’m new to archery and saving to purchase first bow. A wealth of knowledge from masters in their field. analysis, questioning and curiosity…what more do you want?

Best podcast I've heard on your channel in awhile !! Loved listening to Peter and his thoughts !

Love how you're opening up so much discussion. I offer you this thought. 4 blade fixed vs 2 blade expandable. 2 blade makes a wider single direction slice. Would it not be easier to close that slice up like butting 2 pieces of wood together? Vs the 'square hole' of a 4 blade? I see it as directional compression. The 2 blade needs perpendicular compression to compress the opening vs multidimensional compression for a square hole. The triangular bayonet was proven to be more feared as it was much more difficult to stitch closed compared to a flat bayonet. Also the 2 blade expandable offers a direction of cut, horizontal, vertical, and all angles between. If a bad shot is made 1" behind the diaphragm and that 2 blade is running vertically, it may miss the diaphragm, where horizontally it would cut it. I see this an issue of hopefully it cuts horizontally. Maybe hybrid expandables are the answer. Would like to see some content on this.

When are you going to write a book, and narrate that book J Dud? I’d buy it! Man I love these podcasts! I wish it wouldn’t have taken me so long to find your content. That’s my fault though, I was never big on social media. Thanks y’all! 🤘🏼

People love attia more than ranch fairy because his in the rogan gang. This sounds like an interview with troy with bigger words. Same ideology though. Duds did troy dirty.

Clotting Question…The deer family produces high levels of vitamin K in the fall which aid in quicker blood clotting. It is presumed that deer do this because they often fight and can be injured during fall breeding season. FANTASTIC PODCAST!

I recently learned that not enough people know where to aim. Got into a disagreement with someone recently, trying to say that hitting behind the armpit is a bullseye for whitetail. Along the lines of this podcast, maybe some anatomy tips could help some folks ID exactly where the golden triangle, or vital V is

This podcast just changed the aim so much to think about wow

Engineer and then a doctor? Someone made their mom VERY happy.

Never seen Dud so quiet :)

First off I would like to start by thanking you for all that you do for archery you have done so many good things to correct people's problems with archery including myself but on this podcast you and your guests were talking about mechanical broadheads and I'm curious to know if you would test shooting the nap 100 grain spitfire broadhead at 60 yards and beyond for their accuracy you can use the actual broadhead that will open on impact or you can use the practice broadhead that they give you when you buy a set of these broadheads, I've been shooting this type of broadhead for close to 30 years on whitetail and I have been so satisfied by their performance but I would like your feedback if you ever do this test, I have found that from my shooting experience these expandable broadheads against field points that the accuracy of the broadhead is just as accurate or more so than the field point and what I mean by this statement is that I always use my practice broadhead before hunting season starts to check the impact comparison of the field point and the practice broadhead and it has been incredibly accurate and for that reason I won't change from that broadhead, I also get great pass throughs with this particular broadhead, thank you again keep up with the great videos and podcast.

1:09.36 Attia - “is anyone still listening to this podcast ?” Me - “you had me at pneumothorax …” This is fascinating

Being from Austin and occasionally stopping in AC… Jordan and some of the other guys there are pretty good at getting a bow set up.

Craig Boddington has a great coffee table style book called the Perfect Shot with pictures of big game animals then the identical picture with a cutaway view of the bone structure and vitals. That kind of knowledge coupled with precision and accuracy is the deadly combo

I'll be running the Kayuga on elk this year

Wow how come I never thought of aiming a bit higher. My biggest problem I can't raise my pin high enough to be in the bullseye I'm always holding low Tomorrow I am going to try to aim just above the bullseye and see how that works

Dudley you keep making the case for fixed blade and don’t see or acknowledge the fact.

You need the doc to draw a pic of where he is talking about on a deer and elk. I think we all know but it would be good for him to show us. .02

I've been able to differentiate between single or double lung hits by the amount of bubbles in the blood. Very few bubbles on single lung... bubbles in every drop with double

DUD. Explain the thp video where they show a pile of video w light arrows and mechanical heads- good shot arrows goes bonk 2-3” penetration animal runs off never and recovered. They switched to cut on contact for a reason, they’ve been piling them up for a long time so I don’t wanna hear about your pile. The more I see things die the more I realize you’re a salesman trying to bail out a sinking ship.

I noticed on my target bow (30” stabilizer) that the more weight I had on my front bar the more right my bow hit, it was magnifying the torque

I have a question John I am getting a new bow with taxes and have a shot draw length do you think the omen or levitate would be better for speed?

I am very focused on having a pass through

I wish your grip would fit on my fortis 33 😩

Nice

I feel like a lotta John’s responses were basically “Chill Bro, I’m Sponsored” 😂

No one noticed Attitas sub-par shots not once on animals but mulitple times and shooting 27min after sunset like it was a good idea?

So there’s a couple wrong bits of info here. I’ll edit this if I see more, but let’s start with this. Shane Simpson tracks wounded animals with a dog for a business, and records all of his data. His data is clear: on average, deer go considerably farther with a non pass thru than a pass thru. They are also much less likely to be found.

John your wife may not have lost an animal but you need to consider that 99% of people didn't have a beast like you training them on the do's and don’t's of hunting plus your skill of tracking

Just shot at 20/80 holding a lighter, dang it worked but I'm not going to let others see me, learning without it. So simple 😂

Necropsy… not autopsy.. but love the info

I will keep hitting them in the "knee caps". It has been working really well the last five years. I will save my "22" for TAC and other 3D's.

Damn, they should’ve called Dr. Attia to fix Humpty Dumpty after he fell off that wall

Moral of the story always pay the hooker! In a game of micro millimeters shoot for a pass through, keep it heavy keep it fixed blade peace out DUD!

From what I've read, 20% blood loss, whether internal or external and the animal will pass out from hemoragic shock. Good discussion. The comments by the heavy arrow, fixed blade folks are getting tiresome. Long range at high fps using a large cut mechanical makes sense for stability and accuracy. Fixed blade will sail in the wind which is often the case. Accuracy is the key, and that is what Dud is emphasizing.

Cant believe that someone would still argue with JD! Proved his knowledge pretty much everywhere and in many ways. Yet, some ppl still wanna talk sh!t! 🤦 When someone like him or Joel talks, shut up listen and learn!!!

Peter is great, I'm sure his book is as well but I can almost guarantee that not a single person watched this to learn what it's like to record an audiobook.... Skip the small talk, we want the meat lop

MFJJ should be on here

this is the conversation you should have respectfully had with Troy. instead you focused on FOC and treated him like a child

Sounds like he needs new center serving.