Fr that bitches voice was so annoying

Ikr, I'm listening to this for a class project and I can't stand her voice, it's like she's trying to make herself sound like that on purpose.

Haha You beat me to it.

ur gay, we get it

Omg! I had that thought as soon as I heard her! 😬🥴😵‍💫😵

Everyone in this case seems like they could've done more. I'm studying forensics investigation and I've been dumbfounded by the accepted lack of DNA testing/results, the lack of studying and mulling over of the gathered evidence, I believe it was somewhat sloppy forensics work, sloppy work by the prosecutor, sloppy work by the defense attorney, sloppy investigation, etc. I wasn't very concerned about Jay because at first I thought, what does he have to gain from this? Now looking at it, things seem more and more like he has EVERYTHING to gain from possibly ratting out Adnan. He could very well be getting away with murder, he seems like he knows how to play the victim, play the 'good boy' role, etc. He's skilled enough to spin an elaborate story and compared to a life sentence, the risk of spending a few days/months in jail is nothing, so again, he has everything to gain...

She's dead. There is speculation she deliberately screwed up the case so she could glean more money in an appeal. Im doubtful. I think she was just not good enough.

@@janewalls6254 I believe that she did throw the case in hopes of more money for appeal.

If you try making a chicken salad out of chicken shit, you'll get chicken soup every time

Awful Falafel Waffle ROFL I know this comment was made 3 years ago but I’m dying rn 😂

Whaaat

@@dramaholick 43:28

no, this case is very straight forward it;s proven adnan did it. Sarah just told the story in a non linear way and underemphasized the evidence of his guilt. That's why the judges denied his new trial. Adnan is an extremely manipulative piece of shit and he will never come clean.

@@carlosmartel5753 Hmm it’s tricky. If it was given a retrial I don’t believe he would be prosecuted beyond a reasonable doubt. Namely because the cell records which were the states main theory into prosecuting Adnan have been discredited by the same expert who presented them in court years later. As well as Gutierrez rushing through all of her clients cases at this point in time just for the money as her health was on a fast decline. It would be interesting to see how it would unfold. I could see a retrial being granted on the cause of Gutierrez failing to contact eye witnesses at the time who claimed to have seen the defendant in the School library at the time of the tragic death. I’m not personally saying Adnan is innocent in anyway. But my fascination with Criminal Law has made me wonder at these types of things.

after the body is discovered, a friend of the defendant come forward to the police and confessed to helping bury the body. he then takes police to Hae’s abandoned car, proving his claim. this friend is Jay. another friend, Jen, corroborates Jay’s statements regarding Adnan’s guilt. and the cops should have just ignored these two people? adnan had motive and opportunity. nobody else had motive. there is reasonable doubt as to the precise time of the murder, but such details are not required to prove guilt. jay told tons of lies to protect himself. still, there is no reasonable doubt as to adnon’s guilt.

@@benicia21 Agreed. Too many get involved with minutiae that marginally points to Adnan's innocence but ignore the great weight of evidence that directly points to Adnan's guilt.

It all boils down to one thing: of all places, of all times, Adnan's phone pinged right in Leaking Park. What an unlucky guy he is, uh? The universe must be conspiring against him. The whole case was born and died there, nothing else matters.

I agree. Her voice is annoyiiiiiiiiing

Also I managed to find what I think is one of the older appeals records and jay seems very well coached he’s answering perfectly every time all the yes man and no man it’s very weird viewfromll2.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/syed-v-state-md-cosa-opinion-no-923-00.pdf

@@jameson1239 during the first trial his testimony was a lot more scattered and he had many inconsistencies. But by the time they started the second trial I think the district attorney's office had coached him and got the story t9 make more sense.

That's because ur not a juror and u didn't sit thru the trial adnan is guilty 100 percent. On the points that mattered Jay told the truth and the cell towers and call log prove it. This podcast was just smoke and mirrors

@@carlosmartel5753 Thank you. Jay's story was inconsistent because he was trying to minimize his role and protect Jenn

Your drunk aunt. Lol

Guadalupe Tovar I know but I think sometimes ppl’s emotional IQ allows them to act differently around differ t people.

That's a characteristic of a psychopath...👀

@@kameikahardin5823 Not everyone described him differently did you even listen? Those that didn't know him said they weren't surprised he may have been involved. Those who were friends with Jay all said the same thing, he was goofy, laid back, he came off as intimidating but he really wasn't, and they were surprised he was involved and why Adnan reached out to him. Now you might say, but wait, didn't that guy said that Jay tried to stab him (really lightly) so that "knew he what it was like?" But keep in mind his friend was recalling it a joking way, and another person who knew Jay said that he was a great athlete for lacrosse despite not training hard, and he could "run for days"... If Jay really wanted to stab his friend he would chase the dude down and actually do it. I'm not arguing that Adnan is guilty, or Jay's testimony and story is fishy, but let's not go around calling people psychopaths.

@@wachowski9525 Uhhh...homie calm down. Show me where I called him a psychopath babe. I said characteristics of a psychopath...slow ya roll shawty😂.. The characteristics I'm referring too are being able to adapt to people and their surroundings. Which means they are able to mimic personality traits and portray them in certain situations and with people to benefit themselves.Which explains why different people have different descriptions of his (Jays) manuarism and personality. My statement was not an accusation just an observation. So...go back reread and watch who you coming for boo cause I ain't the one. Peace and love✌

@@wachowski9525 And there were multiple people who gave different descriptions of him. Not all like u said...but more than enough

Adnan is guilty AF

@@alexb7641 no man

@@fushiigso7145 yes man

Good point 🤔

Jay sounds gay/bisexual? Black guy with piercings Dennis Rodman didn't fit into the rest of the black population.

I know this comment is 2 yrs old, but it sounds exactly right.

Yeah this is beginning to sound like the true story

Yeah, and the girl narrating it sounds like a complete moron.

Yeah Adnan ain’t fooling me. He killed her. Now he’s free.

are you dumb

Joe. Rogan.

Clearly you haven't listened to ShitTown. And Joe Rogan is good. Homie down there is right.

Unless your here from school, idk why you listen. Ok tho

@@crypticshot1325 let people be, other can have different opinions than you. Doesn’t make it more or less valid than yours. 😒

lmao they didn't ask to have Jay as a witness, there not gonna let a murderer go free just bc jay was wrong about whether they went to this mall or that mall, or where and when they smoked weed. Adnan guilty af get over it.

ADNAN DIT IT ADNAN DID IT ADNAN DID IT

So Jay asks her to go smoke than kills her ? For what reason ? Jay is a serial killer ? He just randomly kills people ? Please don't ever comment on this case anymore. Thank you.

I know right he says he hasn’t committed any crimes yet as had helicopters and SWAT teams on him

he does have a motive if he made advances to hae, and she rejected him, violent misogynist

Cause it leds us to the jury's decision that Adnan did do it.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

And?..What conclusion are you drawing from this?

Its an obvious lie by Adnan. He has to provide a reason to give his car to Jay.

Or Jay didn't really love her as much as he thought/pretended ...... she could have just been a prize on his arm to him (whether knowingly or subconsciously)

@@cozycasasmr4510 And? So what?

@@milart12 ......OK clearly you want to be rude and not have an intelligent discussion. Bye.

@@cozycasasmr4510 U are way too sensitive. It's a genuine question. What does this have to do with anything?

The whole point is to get to the truth and not build a case. What ethics are the police basing their whole model on?

It all boils down to one thing: of all places, of all times, Adnan's phone pinged right in Leaking Park. What an unlucky guy he is, uh? The universe must be conspiring against him. The whole case was born and died there, nothing else matters.

100 percent agree.

True, but you can't put people in a box. Adnan did it, he himself wants to believe he didn't do it. Eventually you tell yourself a lie enough times, it becomes the truth to you.

Same also in 9th

@@irezztrinityy4678 jesus you kids are sooo lucky!! my god if only i was raised in a school like that

8th grade

10th

Such an important question!

I see your point. Back to the Stephanie side of it, I personally think Jay did it and she knows about everything (which is why she never wanted to talk about it). Obviously I can’t be concrete about it but that’s what I’m currently thinking

My theory is Stephanie did it and Jay is tryna protect her by blaming it on Adnan

30:52 lol I heard "herff"

That guy considered “well-spoken” by Baltimore standards

Gutierrez isn't white. That said, I don't think her aggressiveness was necessary or wise.

Devilish profession...

And he's also guilty AF! Exclamation point

Sorry to break it to you that the cell phone location isn't, wasn't reliable. You cannot determine the location on incoming calls. The cell data expert Abraham Waranowits came out with an affidavit that he wasn't told by Kavin Urick that the calls made in that period of time were incoming calls. If he wasn't lied to he wouldn't have given that testimony which largely helped to put Adnan Syed in prison.

You should watch Adnan Syed's press conference where he exposes Kavin Urick and team with proof for committing misconduct in his case.

Sorry to break this to you but this theory has been debunked : For the State, Vignarajah called FBI Special Agent Chad Fitzgerald . , Fitzgerald explained why some location data for incoming calls might be unreliable. He had spoken with AT&T engineers working in 1999, who told him that incoming phone data might be unreliable if, for instance, the phone travelled rapidly through different coverage zones. Network computers might try to place the incoming call based on the last coverage zone the target phone had transited, not where it was at that moment. Alternatively, if someone with a cell phone registered in Atlanta travelled to Washington, DC with their cell phone off, the network would likely activate the switching centre in Atlanta when it was switched on again, since that is where the phone was last used. Fitzgerald’s testimony cleared this up: cell-tower data were reliable for outgoing calls, but might be unreliable, in unusual situations, for some incoming calls. These didn’t apply to Adnan; he received most of his calls in Baltimore County, not while rapidly transiting through coverage zone. Waranowitz, who had earlier signed an affidavit stating that he had not seen the AT&T fax cover sheet and that it should have prompted more investigation, flew to Baltimore for the hearing. After Judge Welch told the parties to substitute affidavits for witness testimony to avoid prolonging the hearing, Adnan’s lawyers submitted a second affidavit from Waranowitz in which he called the fax cover sheet “ambiguous” and stated that he would not have endorsed the accuracy of some of the records he had analysed during Adnan’s trial had he known of the cover sheet. In all other respects, he stood by his trial testimony. In a LinkedIn post from October 2016, he wrote (bold in original): “I have NOT abandoned my testimony, as some have claimed. The disclaimer should have been addressed in court. Period.” Quoted from "The Wrongful Exoneration of Adnan Syed", written by Andrew Hammel which appeared in Quillette. Hammel was reporting on the Feb, 2016 hearing as to whether Syed should receive a new trial. So, ALL the calls, incoming AND outgoing, could be used to determine the location of the phone. Also, Waranowitz was not lied to. No one even noticed this fax cover sheet until the despicable Rabia Chaudry got her hands on it and, as usual, made a mountain out of a molehill. @@truth3554

Cell phone pings are only reliable for outgoing calls in the court of law the leaking park pings were from incoming calls

"Play lacrosse but be a stoner" Okay that's not a polar opposite lmao, you don't know many highschoolers or highschool athletes or lacrosse players lol. Adnan also smoked weed and was an athlete. Loads of people do. And of course Jay is about preservation, he doesn't want to ruin the rest of his life. What if Jay is telling the truth? Prosecutor Urick broke it down perfectly to me. They expect for witnesses/co-conspirators to inch around the truth and be deceptive at first, but eventually, they break them down (peel the layers back) to get to a base-level truth. There are material facts and collateral facts. Material facts being the main plot points of Hae's murder that points to Adnan, stay consistent. The collateral facts, such as "we were at 'x' place" then later "actually we were at 'y' place, my grandma's house" long after the murder, burial, cover-up, etc. At a certain point, Jay was no longer in control of his life, the detectives and prosecutors took over (along with his lawyer that Urick the prosecutor found him) and in order to tie off loose ends they squeezed out desirable statements from him. In the end, the *two trials* led to the jury making their decision. In March 2019 (literally this month) the appeals court weighed the appeals and voted against Adnan's favor AGAIN after all these years, discrediting the Asia alibi and cell-phone record data for separate reasons. Either there's been a massive plot against Adnan or everyone but Adnan's team see through the truth. At this point it isn't about proving what happened or didn't happened. It is about getting Adnan free. Poking legal holes, producing documentaries and TV series and pocasts and books like Rabia has. It is no longer about the truth, but a legal battle.

Some people just like to people please 😂 it’s not that serious

I wondered why he wouldn’t call Hae at all but then I remembered how Hae’s boyfriend at the time didn’t call her either. There’s a lot of doubt surrounding all of the events in this story. I don’t think I would have convicted Adnan. I wonder if Jay was actually afraid of Adnan... or if a third party did this and he was afraid of them. Or if Stephanie played some part in all of this. Very interesting and confusing. It’s horrible wha happened of course. Hae seemed like a wonderful girl. Confident and smart and emotional. :(

Two testimony’s from jay and a close friend plus cell record in my opinion does not meet reasonable doubt

Jay knew where the car was so they knew for a fact they were looking in the right directions with these two. And the evidence leans towards Adnan much stronger than Jay.

If you watch the documentary, you would know the cell tower information was not accurate and incoming calls cannot give the cell phones location; a statement provided by AT&T (the cell provider of Adnan’s cell phone). Plus the route that was taken based on Jay’s version of events doesn’t make sense. Then he lied multiple times, and the reasoning for lying also doesn’t make sense. Jay is totally fine with breaking the law and lying. If there was DNA, okay fine. A fingerprint on the body of Adnan’s, hard to explain away. But come on, there was plenty of reasonable doubt to go around. The defense just has to prove that the state didn’t prove their case and given the facts, it just doesn’t seem like they unequivocally proved that Adnan was guilty. OJ Simpson had DNA in the damn car and so much evidence against him but the defense was very good at explaining there is a small amount of doubt which means the state didn’t have enough proof. It’s really a travesty this man went to jail for more than half of his life. This would never happen today.

Exactly shows a violent mindset who stabs their friends for fun that’s weird

he is the only one saying "kill the bitch" [which is a horrific thing to say] [for dumping adnan / rejecting jay's advances]

Matthew R. Terry for an airway strangulation it’s 4-6 min but for a blood force strangulation it’s 30 seconds to one minute

Mo Heinzerling if you think an average person knows where the blood vessels are in order to strangulate someone that fast I applaud or optimism but that’s just not true

It takes about two to 3 minutes to start causing brain damage

@@jameson1239 ik this comment is old but adnan was a volunteer somewhere and was taught how to strangle and revive somone if needed, they talked abt it in either ep 1 or 2!!

@@kassidy6627 that would mean he would be a volunteer at some kind of self defence or martial arts dojo

Ashley Figueroa Sorry but I think your way off base. Adnan was obsessed with Hae and Stephanie is mentioned a couple times in the story. How would you feel if you worked hard to maintain a level of popularity at school and in your Muslim community and your parents completely embarrassed you in front of your classmates at homecoming dance . To make things worse your girlfriend cheated on you and dumped you for another guy. How would you feel? On top of this Muslims are very judgmental and bringing shame to yourself and family is a bad thing. Adnan’s father was a religious leader and Adnan was on the spotlight.

Why didn't he kill Adnan then? Jay isn't some machiavellian genius, who murders the ex-girlfriend of the guy who his girlfriend is close to as a way to get back at him

MegaMissPrincess93 wasn’t that day her birthday? That would really stink...to murder on your birthday. Not how I’d want to spend my evening lol

This is an interesting idea though. I hadn’t even thought of that. There is some focus on jay being jealous of Adnan, and Stephanie’s relationship. No one ever even mentions the possibility of Stephanie being a bit distraught over Adnan, and Hae’s relationship. I don’t know that many high school girls are capable of hiding something like this though. They will usually talk to at least one of their friends about their feelings.

Tea Bean I am speculating but no one investigated her relationship with Hae. She may of been jealous. I would want to better understand how deep Jay and Stephanie's relationship was. And if there was an issue with Hae. Because no one asked we don't know. I just want to know what was Haes relationship with everyone connected to adnans conviction. All speculation of course.

Tea Bean also would like to say that no one ever suspected Adnan was capable of killing Hae until he was convicted. People with emotions are all able and capable of murder - you just have to press the right buttons

Jane Walls there’s a lot of sympathy for the two of them and we know for sure at least one of them buried this girls dead body.

Except there's no evidence that either of them are psychopaths. Jay is pathalogical liar, but is he capable of murder? could it have been an accident? could he have somehow known that someone else had killed her and used Adnan as a fallguy? or are both Jay and Jen lying, and Jay made this up well after the fact to frame Adnan?

😂😂😂

He led them to her car.

He had one story corroborating

but based on what are you acussing him

He posed on many other occasions too... it seems you haven't listened to the whole thing carefully.

What was his motive? Hae had to be killed in a very short time window, between the time when she left Woodlawn High School and the time that she was to pick up her cousin. Jay had Adnan's car and phone and he was with Jen Pusateri for much of this time. So, are you saying that Jay knew where Hae was going that day(How did he know this?), followed her in Adnan's car, somehow got her alone (How exactly?), then killed her? He then met up with Adnan to take him to track practice (Did he tell Adnan that he killed Hae?/What did he do with Hae's body/car while this was going on), then proceeded to spend most of the rest of the day with Adnan? When Jen Pusateri picked up Jay and Adnan at Westview Mall, had Jay already buried Hae or did he do it later? Is Jen Pusateri lying? This Jay did it scenario is, of course, silly. The only one with a motivation and opportunity to kIll Hae was Adnan. He killed her. End of story.

I think the police tried to implicate Jay & the thought of doing serious time probably terrified him leading him to go with the tale the police wanted & push everything on Adnan it could even be that neither one of them had anything to do with it.

@@user-pi4su6je8p But why do you preface your statements with "I think" and "probably" when you do not have a shred of evidence to support this theory?

@@milart12 There was a trial that stated one of the detectives did so in another case also police conduct came up when he was released. I used I think & probably because I'm making inferences never said I had proof. Jay has gotten off yet even in an interview with a the Intercept his story contradicted his testimony. Does someone who knows what happened & had gotten off on their involvement why would the story keep changing to that extent if you were there & there's no reason for you to lie about your involvement. Also listen to Jay's second interview especially when he gets things wrong is is stuck on a detail. Again I never said my theory is the absolute truth since when are theories held to that length.

@@user-pi4su6je8p Because your theory (And I am using the term VERY loosely) makes NO sense and has not a shred of evidence to back it up. The police tried to "implicate" Jay? With what? The police became aware of Jay only when they interviewed Jen Pusateri, whose number appeared most often in Adnan's cell phone records. Jen told the police that Jay had told her that Adnan had killed Hae and that he, Jay, had helped Adnan bury the bodies. Was Jen Pusateri lying? When questioning Jay, the police asked Jay why he did not come forward earlier and Jay told them that he did not like to speak to the police due to his criminal activity. The police were surprised and specifically noted that Jay had only one prior arrest involving the sale of marijuana. What could they possibly implicate him with? When someone walks into the police station and tells the police that he knows the killer, helped bury the body and provides critical information, like where Hae's car is parked, that is the end of the ballgame. Cops do NOT frame innocent people, despite what Rabia Choudry and her crowd say. Adnan obviously killed Hae. I can't believe that ANYONE thinks otherwise.

What's your point here? That Jay killed Hae because she rejected Adnan? That is ludicrous.

I kindve have the same feeling. Maybe the prom incident where Adnan danced with hae was the trigger. I mean a girl who is beautiful,and most popular in school wouldn't she feel embarrassed on prom night...angry.. inside at least... seeing how prom night is a big thing for teenagers..and also she came from a proud family... family of winners..... Imagine this scenario.... Stephanie either planned or mytv snapped ..killed hae from somewhere...calls up her bf..Jay...who was smoking weed with jen...meets up Stephanie...helps her out ..takes the car to the other location...drops her home..goes to pick up Adnan...makes him high takes him to their friends place...and later leaves together again.....takes the route to the park with Adnan...than calls up Jen...for her to pickup...Jen sees Adnan with Jay....Jay goes to her car...he spills everything to her making it look like Adnan....then asked her to help get rid of the evidence on the context that he was afraid of getting caught...she helps him...tells her she wants to meet her gf ..from where he gets her cloths and his cloths and throw them away the next day... In Adnan perspective...he gets picked up by Jay....smokes weed....gets really high...knows he has things to do and family to meet...freaks out and his them how to bring down the high...and then he gets call from officer which freaks him out more....gave him a bad trip..... probably why he doesn't remember much...maybe they drove around to the park cuz he was trying bide time for the high to come down....note: Adnan is a young teen who does things without his parents know adding the fact his religion is against it as well...we all been there...the bad trip we get out of worrying about wat our parents think if they found out..... I know it seems to farfetched..... Even if Jay planned everything out like this to frame him makes him really smart. I feel maybe it isn't Jay or Adnan....it's someone else..and Jay is protecting that person...who will Jay protect so much to the point that he risk his own future so that the investigation focusing more on him and Adnan ....? This way it kindve make sense how Jay is able to create a core story and the small details only shift.....he is telling the truth about not killing her but not about who killed her...he just has to tell the truth but with a different person...as long as that person is out of the frame...then all Court will focus more Adnan and Jay...and since Jay really didn't kill her...then court narrows it down to Adnan.... Stephanie motive..: jealousy,rage of being humiliated and at the same time learning that after all this hae is dating someone...she mytv cracked..she is young, popular,top in everything... prestigious fam of achievers...and she is In high school...others have done way worse..its a possibility... Or it could be someone else entirely...

Doesn't mean what I say is ryt just a possibility....I'm not a detective..but I like to read books and build various scenarios in my head...think in their perspective...so this is just one of them.....the only thing I feel im sure of is that - I don't think Jay or Adnan killed her...but Jay knows something about it...

Reach mountain

What

If adhan did it OBVIOUSLY he would've taken the deal and he wouldn't be in serial fighting for his freedom or trying to justify why he didn't do it. A guilty person who has been proved guilty would lose all motivation to prove they aren't guilty when they know they aren't.

Because he is.

Patrick Arnett Agreed. Pretty simple.

What if jays girlfriend, stephanie, killed hae and told jay all the details including where haes car was

Patrick Arnett "Didn't Jay take the cops to her car? So if it wasn't Adnan or Jay, how would he know where the car was? And we know Adnan and Jay were together during the day of the murder." there are plenty of different scenarios/reasons in which Jay could've known where the car was. You're merely making an assumption if you're suggesting that because Jay knew where the car was, it must mean Adnan had to have been the killer. Also, no, there's nothing to indicate that Adnan and Jay were, for a fact, together that day. Are you talking about the cell phone records? If you literally look at the front page of the phone records, it explicitly states that the locations are *inaccurate*. The only thing we know for sure is that Jay did, in fact, have Adnan's phone. That's it! "Jay had no motive to kill her" How do you know that? What if he had some secret motive that no one has been able to figure out yet? "Adnan had plenty of motive" The motives that you're referring to have all been disproven. Unless you have any specific ones you'd like to share? "Not to mention Adnan's "I'm going to kill" note." The note you're talking about was never proven to be a serious note. I, myself, joke about suicide and death all the time. I probably shouldn't, but I'm an edgy teenager who likes to do that. It'd be a big stretch to use the note as an example to try to prove that Adnan was the killer.

False. No proof. Pretty simple and not to mention no physical evidence to put him at the "scene" of the crime.

Jays did have motive! Adan and Stephanie were friends before Jay and steph were together! Jay was jealous and framed adan

They did. It’s Adnan.

This is a ridiculous theory. Adnan is obviously guilty. I have NO idea why anyone thinks otherwise.

Erika S oh shit

They never tested the red fiber i think, also i don't think they found the red gloves. Supposedly, according to Jay testimony they got rid of shovels in the dumpster. I would assume that is spot likely Adnan got rid of gloves. I got Adnan doing it, Jay should also be in jail in my opinion.

They never found the red gloves

terrible

Reach mountain

I agree to what you are saying and Jae was such a narcissist with all the stuff he buys and he talks bout street credit and I feel like he went out with all them and got high so did they cause they all smokes too and maybe an argument broken out or something and then Hae ended up in it and shit happened they freaked out and said we can’t call the cops so they go to bury her it is very much likely cause Jae knew exactly where Hae’s car was it’s just alll weird

Interesting...

How would Stefanie be "involved"?

If was cross examining Jay I would ask him if we was jealous of Adnon and Stephanie's friendship. I see motive there.

Right? I am also confused as why everyone is extremely convinced that Adnan is guilty. I'm more leaning towards jay. Cause what is his motive if Adnan really didn't do it? How did he know where her car was? How did he even come up with everything?

S H Y R A what would be his motivation?

*Lacrosse