This comment section is how I learned Angel Hernandez retired

not even 5 mins in and mans quoting PLATO in relation to gen2 pokemon.

I think it's important for people to realize that when these games came out, nobody saw them as "Gen 2". These were seen as "Pokemon but better". These were the sequals to RBY, and they only came out a few years later. Nobody was sick of Gen 1 Pokemon yet. Nobody was sick of Kanto yet. We were just happy to have more Pokemon games. There wasn't this huge distinction between Gen 1 and Gen 2 mons.

This video would be perfect, if not for the unwarranted Totodile SLANDER

The entire first argument is courtroom lawyer speech-tier BS, I love it

This guy referenced Greek philosophers and a publicly disliked MLB umpire in his video about Gen 2 Pokémon. Incredible.

This video is amazing, but you made the fatal error of assuming I care for the opinions of a Totodile hater

Might be yelling out into the void a bit with this one - but I've always felt that gen 2 had the best sound design of the entire franchise. G/S/C specifically, not the remakes. The sound effects, and especially the music, just make SUCH effective use of the GBC's limited sound hardware, and are just such masterpieces of composition... I cannot think of a single other *thing* that so perfectly evokes a spirit of adventure as the gen 2 games do. The highs, the lows, the excitement, the melancholy, everything... the sound alone highlights gen 2 as one of the peaks of the franchise for me.

Nothing could have possibly been more unhinged and funny than going "Are the adolescent bird from these two different beloved children's cockfighting games the same? For answers, we turn to ancient philosophers."

Gen 2 is perfect if you were a dumbass 5 year old like me who barely understood reading and beat the entire game with a weepinbell using slam. So many weird random events and things and secrets, it really felt like anything was possible in those games.

It wouldn't be any fun to run six of the same Pokemon. But three Donphan, one of whom is a robot? Now that's entertainment.

Generation 2 was perfect for the time. As a kid with no internet, with no powerful consoles like Playstation or Xbox, the simple fact that you could play a game on Gameboy with events depending on the daytime or the day of the week was simply stunning. Not to mention the beautiful sound design, the continuous reminders to Red and Blue (stepping the first time to Kanto was a shock since we did not even have the idea this was possible) and, most importantly, the constant rise of "urban legends" related to the game and its special events that were arising between the kids playing, giving a genuine sense of exictement about the game. I am completely aware of the structural problems of this game (level curve, Kanto itself, bla bla bla) but as an adult fan who doesn't buy the new games i wonder: are the new games giving similar vibes to today's kids? Did gen VI or VII give a similar experience to the kids that played them as the first pokemon game?

Its time, lets go youtube Algorithm, make it two in a row. Edit: Don't you think I didn't hear that Yakuza 0 ost regarding steelix.

23:51 Unown is so obscure that even the pro doesn’t know what it’s movepool is

using advanced baseball stats to compare pokemon is why I'm here

I'm glad I'm not the only person who absolutely hated the Pokemon Tower in Lavender getting revamped into a radio tower

Excellent video. Unless you were there, it would be hard to explain how there weren’t “generations” when G/S came out. It wasn’t an ongoing series, it was closer to an expansion pass than anything else. People loved seeing the original 150 Pokemon again. It is only after the following half dozen generations when “Gen 2” became (mis)understood as its own standalone “generation”. BW and BW2 had more time between their releases than RBY and GS, and it’s only really because of their naming conventions that we don’t see GS as sequels, and this judge their Pokemon distribution the same way.

I struggle to call GSC Kanto "podstgame" as so many do, because the way pokemon (and sometimes evolution items) are spaced out really makes it feel like it was balanced like a continuation of your team building, not a victory lap for your fully-grown champions. It's kinda weird to think about it like that because it reduces the Elite 4 to a mere stepping stone. Also, a funny thing I recently realized: Houndoom is SUCH a good indicator of the march of time and power creep in Pokemon. The reason it is such a late encounter in Gen2 (and night exclusive to boot) is likely because its stats and movepool are weirdly optimized compared to almost everything else in the game. Of course, it doesn't really matter (Onix vs Egg and all that, though I do find it a tad reductive) in the end, but back then, getting not one but TWO moves of your own type early that ALSO complement your stat spread was genuinely pure gold. Nowadays, Houndoom is just one of many (and competitively, it's long been outpaced despite being a topdog in Gen2 and good in Gen3) but back then, you barely got that. Gen 2 is the one Pokemon generation that actively resists being played fast, I feel. Its encounter levels are low (later on), its events (that you have to interact with for access to certain mons) are restricted to certain weekdays and mechanics like friendship and eggs are drawn out to be with you almost an entire game if you focus on them (my Golbat never evolve by the E4 in Gen2). It's relaxing if you are planning to play them for a long time or are a wide-eyed kid experiencing it for the first time, but in the realm of challenge runs and fast replays, GSC's focus on a "living" world you slowly experience as the week days pass and gift you with new things to see, doesn't fit in as well. I think that's also a big reason why Gen2 gets its modern reputation.

“Are these the same Pokémon? Aristotle fans will say no” that’s exactly the moment I stopped what I was doing and aggressively clicked on the subscribe button.

You know it's a bopper video when the prisoners in the cave become relevant. come on guys, these are two totally different pidgeottos. GOSH I love the egg versus onix comparison, it's so funny. I love these over-the-top deep dives and I love your justification of a game that most pokemon players just tend to overlook without preamble. Speak your mind king

Angel Hernandez must have heard your joke about him and announced his retirement lmao. You have done a service for not just the game of baseball, but for the entire world, and we thank you profusely.

the touhou project jumpscare was crazy i was about to fall asleep and suddenly i see clownpiece on my screen

OK but if your favorite dinosaur is the pachicephalosaurus and they give you 20 of them, you can have a Ram Royal Battle, which would have made little me real happy.

This video is over an hour but is so dense, it's crazy. Gonna need to watch this a couple times to let it all sink in

I'm two minutes in and already I can tell I'm going to enjoy this far more than any of the million "Gen 2 was broken so I 'fixed' it" videos where they just go through and apply Pokemon Showdown logic to the gym leaders.

"Some pokemon, like sunkern and hoppip, wouldn't fit as boss pokemon for the same reason you wouldn't use pidgey or metapod or kakuna as boss pokemon" *pidgey and metapod and kakuna on screen as boss pokemon*

Shoutouts to Nin for mentioning that Misdreavus bops Red’s Snorlax. I was getting ready to comment about that exact thing when you mentioned Misdreavus getting the short end of the stick. Also thank you for noting Clair’s dragons are sea based to Lance’s sky, I feel like that detail often goes unnoticed. On the whole, I loved this assessment of Gen 2. A lot of the criticisms you mentioned are ones I’ve heard, but never really resonated with me, an avid Gen 2 fan, personally. I think your breakdown of what makes Gen 2 work and why it’s so fun is spot on, and I’m always impressed what you work into your analysis. You mentioned in the stream this video would talk about Plato’s Cave, and I had no idea where you’d be going, but this was a really thoughtful way to express how people might feel one way based on what’s seen, versus how the game may really be. Excellent video all around.

The Plato argument is moot because it's no different than the addition of abilities in gen 3, physical/special split in gen 4, hidden abilities in gen 5, interactions with the fairy type in gen 6, z moves in gen 7, dynamax in gen 8, and terastalization in gen 9. Sure, they all can function somewhat differently, but they aren't wholly unique and once you begin to understand the changes, it doesn't matter that much. That said, gen 2 is a sequel, not so much it's own unique generation as others are. Gen 7 is far worse with many gen 7 Pokemon having 10% or lower encounter rates, many have 5% or 1% encounter rates. Low encounter rates can make it fun to hunt for a handful of Pokemon, but gen 7 pushes that way too hard

This video was phenomenal. I never thought I'd encounter someone who can simultaneously trash talk and defend the same things. It's like you're your own devil's advocate in the greatest way.

Or, you know, they could make them both more challenging AND aesthetically distinct.

I’ve always thought that the apparent lack of gen 2 pokemon in johto is because gen 2 wasn’t a new gen in the same vain that later games were new gens, but rather it was an expansion of the original games. The familiar 151 was the fundamental pokemon experience, and so the 100 johto pokemon were only meant to enhance the existing roster, not replace them as the primary set of pokemon to find. It’s like a movie sequel that adds a new character: the main character and his or her friends are still the focus, but the new character just adds a new dynamic to the group.

Gen 2 was always meant to be an expansion pack on Gen 1. Back then DLC/Updates didn’t exist, so if a game was unfinished, then a new game would release adding in missing content, with some bonus content to make it worth your money. Gen 2 dev team had so many ideas that it just ended up snowballing into an entire new game’s worth of content. So new pokemon aren’t meant to be the focus, they are sprinkles, the focus is supposed to be the bug fixes, UI updates, color, day and night, breeding, etc. This is why most Gen 2 mons are Gen 1 evos or weak single stage pokemon or hidden. They are meant to be a cute little surprise, and nothing more. I think it’s honestly wrong to even call Gen 2, the 2nd one, it is meant to be Gen 1 DLC

watching this video I didn't get the angel hernandez reference but right after I finished it he announced his retirement and now social media is blowing up with his bad calls

Just a small example of an annoying thing about Gen 2 is that barely any of the Gym leaders have Gen 2 Pokémon at all. Which makes it look like it hates itselfs even more.

You hit every nail right on the head. I adore Gen 2 in ways I've never seen articulated by others, until now. It's worth all 5 of the batteries I lost playing them.

3 minutes in and already getting philosophical. I love the KZfaq community. Also this video was super good! I like the quote of "I like Blue, but only because other colors exist". All around not the vibe I was expecting from the video, but I was thoroughly entertained anyways. Keep up the good work!

Sprites and animations are so important for me, gen 2 aeroblast hits so much different than in other gens

If only it got ancient power :(

For your first argument, "using a [gen 1 pokemon] in gen two is fundamentally different than in gen 1 (because of the special split)." Is it? The only pokemon that were really effected by the split were high special pokemon that had one of those stats drastically changed and the hitmons. So really just the abra, ghastly, drowzee, tyrogue, staryu, and smoochum lines, as well as snorlax, tauros, and chansey. So 16 out of 150 pokemon are fundamentally different, just over 10%. I'd argue that there are differences between how you use gen 1 pokemon in gen 2, but it’s only because it's a different game, not because of an specific changes to the mechanics.

Im really tired of when people argue against games in efficiency and functionality terms only. Thanks for shedding some light on the sense of reward and exploration of Gold and Silver

For me that daycare egg hatched into a shiny igglybuff, it’s a 1 in 12 chance of a shiny, but it was my first. Always loved that sparkle.

I think it's funny how the consensus over Gen 2 changed over the decades. It used to be "the perfect sequel", the "best game" and whatnot, whereas nowadays people fluctuate more towards Gens 3-5 + 7 instead. When we were kids all those flaws didn't matter, specially because things like level curve and lack of Gen 2 mons only really matter to people with more critical thinking rather than kids which would just go 'Typhlosion go brrr' instead.

I’m glad I was too young to do anything but enjoy Gen 2. It was 2 regions for the price of 1. Forget “quality”

The thrill of finding new esoteric guys I've never seen before is why I like to play as many new montamers as I can get my hands on

The only REAL "problem" with gen 2 for me as a kid was the level curve, but i just rolled with it because i thought if it was a sequel, wasn't it supposed to be harder?

3:24 is great there's really no one else doing it like you

Are those the shadows of toy dinosaurs in Plato's cave? I am unsure, but the idea is funny, and also fitting. The status of Gold and Silver as sophomore games does interesting stuff to them. We often tackle their legacy within the franchise based on expectations which necessarily had not formed yet. It seems likely this was the first pokemon game made with international markets in mind. In that way, looking at some of the more specifically Japanese betamon designs which didn't make it to gold and silver proper is an interesting thing to do. That's just speculation on my part though, I don't know anything about Game Freak in the 90s or otherwise. This was a more focused video topically, but I think the eclectic kinda multimedia approach Bopper and Nin took to it was fantastically cool! Oh, and yay! I got Cubone!

I actually remember when i first played gen 2 i got stuck on chuck and skipped him and hm fly to go fight jasmine instead, came back later at a much higher level and stomped him. I cherish that freedom and ease, so i dont mind the weird level curve in gen 2

Love the half-assed arts and crafts.

People need to remember - Pokémon was following up its smash success. If it didn’t include a bunch of Pokémon people recognized it felt like a big risk.

Lt Surge’s Raichu goes hard. Raichu used growl.

As a massive fan of gen 2 I love everything you detailed here. Well done well made well said.

One note on Sunflora; it actually might be the best grass type in these games besides Chikorita. It gets good early grass stabs in razor leaf and mega drain, growth, and better stats than Weepinbel. And you can evolve it immediately upon catching it

As someone who casually thinks about game design a bit too much, you perfectly bottled a lot of thoughts I’ve been struggling to put into words at 55:25. Pokémon excels in having the Chemical X that a game needs to be fun instead of theoretically well made. Most KZfaq reviews focus on the objective design of a game instead of how it plays, but yours are a breath of fresh air. Here’s hoping this video pops off like the Onyx one, people need more quality like this.

This video started off with what I assumed was pedantic um actually but rapidly turned into a very compelling look at data and numbers to back up WHY gen 2 feels like shit at times.

I prefer spacing my team out throughout the game. It's way more fun, especially since it makes the level curve smoother

I just clicked from this to the Gen 1 video--only to realize I had started and never finished that one. Wow, what a huge improvement! I'm really impressed by how much more pointed and thoughtful this one is. The scripting is better, the delivery is better, and there's an actual thesis here and logical progression. Nice work!!

Still in the middle of watching, but including Onix and Scyther in the list for Gen 2 Pokemon whose lines are obtainable before endgame is misleading. Their Gen 1 pre-evos are obtainable, but the Metal Coat needed to evolve them is not available until the postgame. EDIT: There's a reason I noted that I was still watching. Good on you for being thorough!

I used to play Stadium 2 a lot. Mostly for the minigames though. I never realized that the stadium rentals were super bad, so I thought it was a problem that I had as a player trying to get past the 3rd or 4th stages in the various challenge cups. Knowing that, I may have to relocate all of the gear needed to keep going. I have it all somewhere - the n64, the copy of Stadium 2, the gbc adapter pack for the controller and a copy of Silver I can play. Might be worth trying to conquer a challenge cup for once. Maybe...

A good tip for the Bug Catching Contest: for winning first place your pokemom (Pinsir or Scyther) must have a lot of HP left when catched.

I saw your gen 1 video and really enjoyed it. I’m gonna enjoy this video too. I hope that this video also blows up just like the gen 1 video. You deserve it!

Damn, the mental gymnastics you went through here are admirable.

The shot at Angel had me rolling

I think GSC are largely meant more to EXPAND on Red/Blue/Green than supplant them. Whereas RSE and DPPt are all meant more to supplant or replace the older games and feel like distant, unique lands. GSC also had a lot of secret, rare late game pokemon. Almost none of them are good, and are really just meant to make the pokedex harder to complete. (i.e. Misdreveus) There's also an effort in GSC to give some love and focus to Pokemon who in gen 1 were maybe only in the peripheries. Like Eevee, Dratini, Gastly, Scyther, Poliwrath. Even Gyarados. I think there was less of an inclination towards adding MOUNDS of new pokemon, and more just expanding on the existing roster and using it effectively. Like does Wurmple really need to replace Caterpie? I feel like GSC has almost no filler pokemon in it, every pokemon feels totally unique unto itself, while a lot of the time nowadays we get a lot of the same conventions of pokemon and they just look a little different.

Not every gen 1 Pokemon has different Special Attack and Special Defense tbf. Rhydon and Mew are examples

You know as someone who understands that Gen 2 wasn't supposed to be a seperate, stand alone "generation" and instead was a direct sequel to the previous Red and Blue games, I think I appreciate it more than people who are critical of the Gen 2 games. Johto games have more in common with Black and White 2 than an actual new Generation like Gen 3 or 4. Maybe I just like direct sequels because Pokémon Crystal/HGSD and BW2 are my favorite games in the series. I didn't need Pokémon to be the same or even close level to beat the Johto games, or most of any of the Pokémon games. They aren't hard. I'd just chill, do the daily events, catch my Friday Lapras, and try to get a Shiny pokemon from the gift egg. I know to play Johto differently than other games, and I've accepted that.

If you haven't yet, you should take a look at shin megami tensei to get an idea of how disposable pokemon were probably supposed to be in Gen 1 and 2, I think most people who never played other creature catching games before pokemon don't realize how the genre felt at the time which causes a disconnect between how the players think the game is supposed to be played and how the developers thought the game was supposed to be played

Gen 2 mons were harder to find in order to extend the long-term viability of the game's life cycle. Back then, information was difficult to access and evolution methods were obscure. Finding a 1% encounter Yanma was rare. Only found on one route. Some never saw it. Some did. It kept the mystery going. And that made it harder, and more satisfying, to "catch them all". It meant you could spend much longer time diving deep into the game and playing it over a longer time, because there was so much mystery to explore.

Only real ones know Angel Hernandez is why the Electabuzz always loose!

Why has no one mentioned that Slowbro does not evolve? Slowpoke has a split evo tree.

I have never seen people claim that Gen 2 is bad until today

My man pulled out Plato to describe differences in pokemon

But most of the lore of Johto... Bellsprout Tower, Slowpoke well, red Gyarados... is about Kanto Pokemon

As someone who got Crystal version for Christmas when I was 7, whose battery has long sinced died, Gen 2 will hold a special place in my heart. Gen 2 has its flaws, but I can still appreciate it warts and all.

This why I tend to not like HGSS as much because it barely does anything to fix any of the actual issues with Gen 2.

This video was fantastic. Can’t wait for Gen 3!

Gen 2 is an interesting discussion because to truly "get" GSC, you shouldn't look at it the way you'd look at later generations. Its relationship with RBY is more akin to Black 2 and White 2's relationship with Black and White than it is to, say, Black and White's relationship with Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum. It wasn't made with the modern mindset of frequent releases from the largest multimedia franchise on the planet, it was made just as a sequel to a ludicrously successful RPG on the Game Boy. Johto is kind of jank as a "Generation," but it excels as a sequel that expanded the world introduced in 1996. Two types and a hundred Pokemon were discovered between the two games. The postgame shows how much the Kanto we explored has changed. Fuchsia City's gym has been handed off to Janine after Koga joined the Elite 4, and the Safari Zone is closed. Viridian Forest is reduced to a small tree maze in Route 2. And Cinnabar Island was destroyed in a volcanic eruption, with the Pokemon Center being the only indication that people lived there. It really does convey how much time has passed between the two games. And some of that wonder was lost in HGSS, simply by virtue of Pokemon being a decade older. Steel and Dark weren't new types anymore. The entire roster of Pokemon had nearly doubled since 1999. Ho-Oh and Lugia were mandatory fights to keep in line with games released after GSC. And some places that weren't there in the GSC, like Cerulean Cave and Viridian Forest, were back in HGSS, which kind of dampens the impact of the three years between the Kanto and Johto games.

I HAD THOSE DINOSAURS AND TREES AS A CHILD

So, about Hoenn pokemon being featured in gyms, you have to remember that gen 2 was not meant to be its own unrelated game, nor was it expected to sell well so it makes sense to use familiar Pokemon. Along with that, you're mostly seeing Kanto Pokemon. Gen 2's pokedex includes all 151 Kanto pokemon and 100 new pokemon. That's mostly Kanto Pokemon. You also need 250 of those Pokemon (the 1 is celebi, so technically in a normal playthrough, there's only 99 new mons) to complete your dex and get your pokemon diploma. Because these pokemon are mostly locked behind eggs or the post game, you're not seeing any of them before gyms and those that you do see are mostly trade evolutions or again, found in the post game so you wouldn't be able to try out these new pokemon until the game is over if the leaders did show them off. I'm not defending it because I agree it's stupid not having the mons easy to find or featuring them, just providing insight. Gen 3 on the other hand is 2/3 new pokemon. It was intended to be a reboot with no old pokemon. They dropped the gotta catch em all slogan due to this as the game didn't include the entire dex. It has 202 in total, 135 new Pokemon. That's a smaller dex than gen 2 BUT it's mostly original and introduces more original Pokemon than gen 2. Along with that, you're seeing all of these original pokemon on every route. The first old Pokemon from memory is an optional trainer's magikarp below Mr Briny's house or Roxanne and her gym trainers have geodudes. The first cave and first few routes don't even have any old pokemon (without surfing or fishing) and the second cave has mostly new mons, with each floor having a Hoenn mon as the most common encounter. You're seeing these Pokemon everywhere, you've learnt how to deal with them and there's more of them than older mons. That combined with this being a reboot, it makes sense to feature the new mons more.

Did not click on this expecting Pokémon-Metaphysics. Right on.

Being an oldster, back in the day you bought these games with a comprehensive guide that went over locations and vatch rates, I still have mine. The internet wasn't really a thing then like it is now, it really was a different time. A lot of newer players also really don't appreciate the insane limitations of the hardware at the time. What we take for granted now was truly technolically difficult at the time. Like RBY is a glitchy mess that for all its faults it is amazing that it runs at all and crammed all those different mons, moves, etc. in. Loved your video essay, you earned a subscribe.

Gotta respect a man who works with Broganium

time for another 1 hour long meal. lets go, i'm really loving this series bopper.

the best thing about Gen 2 is that its a direct sequel, that is what makes it so damn charming!

What a thoughtful tribute to Angel Hernandez as he retires. Good on you Bopper.

Your story of your sweet file disappearing really spoke to me. I am sad. If I was because I got one of those gameshark devices by Pelican which back saves the save files. Just need to change the battery and off you go!

I love Professor boqqer.

fear and hunger music being used in a pokemon video while using plato philosophy as an analogy is such a strange clash of mediums

22:53 it doesnt even learn ancient power only hidden power (no additional effect) so it's even worse

The guy from the Onix sucks video is back :)

The algorithm brought me here andni couldnt be happier

Another excellent analysis that goes far beyond mere retrospective

This is the perfect crossover of my Pokemon and baseball interests thank you

Im doing a replay of gold, my partner does silver, we are going to do crystal together... And we are having so much fun. Just walking around finding stuff, grinding, i am already over 55hours in in 2 weeks. And i just keep loving it. I grew up with gen 4 and 5... But gen 2, is my beloved

Pokémon stadium and stadium 2 was wonderful back in the day, especially seeing your pokemon from the games transferred in like the Pikachu from yellow version

People don’t understand that it’s not Game Freak’s fault the Game Boy Color can’t withstand the innovative design of Gen 2

I saw your sneaky Baseball Savant reference in the Red/Blue video, then you went full baseball nerd in this one with WAR bit. Love it.

Gen 2 is a DLC of Gen 1

That porygon 2 strat was brilliant 👏

Saying that gym leaders would lose their identity if their teams weren't monotype is as much surfice level as their own teams. Their identity could be their strategies, not just "he sure likes rock pokemon". Just look at Pokemon Colosseum bosses: the brute one who spams earthquake, the manipulate one who uses status effects and the calculative one that uses rain + thunder.